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semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 831	Posted - 2013.09.05 13:23:00 - [1] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad? Why is aim assist so strong? This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate? Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 831	Posted - 2013.09.05 13:27:00 - [2] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Why are strafing and bunny hooping bad? Why is aim assist so strong? This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate? At least you recognized that ADHD strafing and bunny hopping are in the same category. I don't like them because they are more twitched than tactical, and most shooters I play do not have those elements in there, in fact pc shooters don't have those elements in there because the kbm nullifies them, you only see them with ds3s because of the lag/control scheme. Now that is a complete farse. If you are talking about games with low health then those are more twitchy. This is known as a tracking shooter similar to Halo it requires the ability to maintain your target for longer than a short burst to kill. If you didnt use strafing skills in say counterstrike then you would have sucked big time. No straffing is important in games on the PC but if you play alot of low health shooters then I can see why you would think straffing should never be done in an FPS game.....the problem with low health shooters its all about who sees who first. Not nearly as much skill involved in that.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 832	Posted - 2013.09.05 13:31:00 - [3] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad? Why is aim assist so strong? This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate? Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. Agreed, the Hit Detection was the only thing that needed fixed... How are the TTKs in you opinion? Nowawadays despite the numbers this game has turned from a tracking shooter to more of a twitch shooter. Whoever sees who first generally wins because you cant miss. If you are even somehow intelligent and know how to move the dot over the enemy then you will pretty much hit every shot from that point foward. TTK used to be perfect in this game. There was plenty of HP without it being overmuch and flanking gave you a favorable position but not a guaranteed kill. With 1.4 its basically a guaranteed kill.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 836	Posted - 2013.09.05 13:38:00 - [4] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f*ing sense. Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s*. So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter. Are you serioulsy bringing in RL examples to a fictional game set 15 million years in the future? Tell me your not because it sounds like you are and if you are then that just shows how much of an idiot you are. If you want a realistic military shooter go play Arma and crawl your way to the objective for 2 hours. Have fun. This is not a realistic based military shooter. It was meant to be a tracking shooter that was Haloesque in many ways yet CCP completely failed and ended up making a bad lobby shooter. You say its a laughably bad tactic....those who consider it a bad tactic are those who could not do it or deal with it themselves. BTW you obviously have not seen deathmatch on Halflife 1 if you consider this game to be strafy and bunnyhoppy......
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 836	Posted - 2013.09.05 13:41:00 - [5] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Severus Smith wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f*ing sense. Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s*. So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter. Rather than people complain about aim assist or bunny hop to compensate I'd like to see this, on a long enough timeline, translate to better real world modes of tactical movement. I.e. move in and out of cover and strafe to the side as you move into the opponent. Also, move forward more cautiously from cover to cover. What dont you people understand....THIS IS NOT A TACTICAL SHOOTER...if you want a tactical shooter you have to play a different game. THis game was NEVER meant to be a tactical shooter nor will CCP EVER MAKE IT INTO a tactical shooter. Their main goal was to make a shooter that was free to play, connected to the Eve universe, and was Haloesque to draw the type of gamers who enjoy Halo. Halo is NOT a tactical shooter why would you assume this game would be? I mean just the fact that you can survive 1 shot pretty much makes this not a tactical shooter.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 836	Posted - 2013.09.05 13:58:00 - [6] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Severus Smith wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f*ing sense. Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s*. So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter. Rather than people complain about aim assist or bunny hop to compensate I'd like to see this, on a long enough timeline, translate to better real world modes of tactical movement. I.e. move in and out of cover and strafe to the side as you move into the opponent. Also, move forward more cautiously from cover to cover. What dont you people understand....THIS IS NOT A TACTICAL SHOOTER...if you want a tactical shooter you have to play a different game. THis game was NEVER meant to be a tactical shooter nor will CCP EVER MAKE IT INTO a tactical shooter. Their main goal was to make a shooter that was free to play, connected to the Eve universe, and was Haloesque to draw the type of gamers who enjoy Halo. Halo is NOT a tactical shooter why would you assume this game would be? I mean just the fact that you can survive 1 shot pretty much makes this not a tactical shooter. You know what, fine you're right, I'll go half way on this with you. If I want a "truly" tactical shooter I'll go crawl for 2 hours in Arma. But the OP asked why people hate bunny hopping / strafing, not if it should exist in DUST. I hate it for the reasons I stated. Namely that it is ridiculously unrealistic, breaks physics, and just looks plain stupid. If you need your stupid tactic to win then go ahead, I'll die more to you and be "less effective" than I could be. It's still stupid and you should feel stupid for doing it, but I will agree that (in these games) it is a tactic that works. Do I wish it was removed from DUST, oh god yes, but that's another topic for another day. Then TBH you need to find a different game because CCP will never make this into a tactical game. Its not supposed to be. ITs original design was to be similar to MAG and Halo. Which I am assuming are both games you hate because they are strafing/tracking shooters.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 838	Posted - 2013.09.05 17:48:00 - [7] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: halo1pc Heres a link of a video of me back in the day that illustrates strafeing very well, pay close attention to how you had to lead your target as you could not hit square on when a target moved. Ps no aim assist in this game...... So aim assist is not part of ALL shooters. But to be truthfull aim assist exists in all console games. Recent games allow you to turn it off but some dont...and some games have lower lvls of aim assist than others. IE MAGs aim assist was so low that noone noticed it and even argued there was no aim assist until one patch when Zipper turned it higher then EVERYONE noticed the aim assist.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 838	Posted - 2013.09.05 17:52:00 - [8] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Bunny hopping is bad bc it gets you killed, jumping targets are easy to hit bc you can easily predict their movement, on the other hand strafeing is bad because it makes me hard to kill and most of these eve nerds have never had to move that way and they suck at it, bc its harder to hit that unpredictable movement, always strafe, always move, and never in a pattern, the reason they want strafe speed turned down the same reason they want aim assist turned up because they can't shoot. Its the same reason eve players have been ruining this game via their position on the cpm from day 1, you mercs gt to realize that much of the influence to ccp comes from people that suck at shooting. These are spread sheet nerds that have been sitting in virtual ships for 10 years and didn't come up through the ranks of doom, quake, halo, bf, cod, and the rest they just leached over here from eve bc they were big eve players, and like the useless space parasites they are they are sucking the skill out of shooting, by saying things like they move to fast side to side I can't hit them, and give us aim assist, blah blah blah, we have got to get them out of here. You shouldnt get rid of aim assist, maybe tweak it a little, but its part of shooting mechanics deal with it!! However strafing still need to be viable, as a tactic, but what a lot of people who are over complaining about aim assist is some thing I like to call the texan 2 step, moving left and right in 20cm area meant you could dodge a large majority of rounds, but it doesnt work anymore and there just bitter! Skill is more than having quick fingers, and that is what this current state of affairs are getting some people to think about!! No youre telling me the texan 2 step took skill? Really? Shakimg the left stick was all it took!! We are mad bc the computer aims for you?? Giving you a kill your not good enough to get? Yes...... The computer doesnt aim for you or for me, texan 2 steping only worked because hit detection didnt work, if the guy isnt good enough to get the kill aim assist isnt gonna get the kill for him! However the assult rifle ttk is now so low, you can just keep going and it'll kill them before your mag is out!! Thats were the problem is!! No the aim assist in this game does not aim for you but it makes is extremely difficult to accidentally overshoot or not correctly follow your target. I mean you really have to work hard to get the aim assist off of the targeted enemy.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 838	Posted - 2013.09.05 17:55:00 - [9] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Severus Smith wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f*ing sense. Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s. So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter. Rather than people complain about aim assist or bunny hop to compensate I'd like to see this, on a long enough timeline, translate to better real world modes of tactical movement. I.e. move in and out of cover and strafe to the side as you move into the opponent. Also, move forward more cautiously from cover to cover. What dont you people understand....THIS IS NOT A TACTICAL SHOOTER...if you want a tactical shooter you have to play a different game. THis game was NEVER meant to be a tactical shooter nor will CCP EVER MAKE IT INTO a tactical shooter.* Their main goal was to make a shooter that was free to play, connected to the Eve universe, and was Haloesque to draw the type of gamers who enjoy Halo. Halo is NOT a tactical shooter why would you assume this game would be? I mean just the fact that you can survive 1 shot pretty much makes this not a tactical shooter. Source? Or are you just so awesome that you can speak for CCP without being CCP semperfi? Yea um if you want you can go back through the forums during closed beta. I have no reason to do this and I could care less if you believe me or not. The fact that Dust has special MAG tribute suits doesnt mean anything of course......
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 838	Posted - 2013.09.05 18:02:00 - [10] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: Severus Smith wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f*ing sense. Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s. So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter. That's different issues though. When under open fire and trying to evade the shots, you'll probably do some mad jumps to make yourself hard to hit. Now you cannot even do this defensively anymore. Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but your analogy is a bit lacking. Accuracy going down the drain while dodging madly could have been simulated. A good thing about this is that low-accuracy weapons like the mass driver are much less of an advantage now. Making yourself hard to hit while spamming explosives right in front of your feet really did feel a bit stupid. Right now it feels a bit sluggish to me with the 90% strafe, but I also have a feeling that I'll get used to it quickly. I agree, if your in the open and come under fire you're not going to stand there and fire back, you're going to jump or run sideways and find cover. But while jumping or running your aim will be s. And I am fine with that. It makes sense. I can still run and shoot, but my chance of hitting anything is down to spray and pray. What I don't like is the guy who jumps up and down, left and right, like a jack russel f*ing terrier while hitting me in the head with pinpoint accuracy the whole time. That is stupid. Let me restate, so that Semperfi doesn't get his panties in a twist again, I am answering the OP's question of "why do people hate bunny hopping / left and right strafing" not if I think DUST should remove them (I wish, but that's a different discussion). I hate it because it's stupid, unrealistic, and I wish I could bombard it from orbit. I u/s thats your opinion regarding what you wish CCP to do. But stating you dislike it because its "unrealistic".........if you have to start arguing "realism" in a video game you have already lost the argument unless its a game that is meant to be simulator....which dust is not.

semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 839	Posted - 2013.09.05 18:21:00 - [11] - Quote Bittersteel the Bastard wrote: Just because a game is not a simulator doesn't mean it can't have some semblance of realism. I agree with some of the points you've made in this thread semperfi (surprisingly) related to how the aim assist makes it difficult to not hit your target and takes minimal effort. However the above point I find to be very flawed. Ah but it does have some semblance of realism in other aspects...just not this one. Like I said I understand personal opinion and thats fine that he can choose not to like this ability. However at the same this game was simply never made to be a tactical shooter in that there is cover to use and moving tactics need to be employed. This game was meant to be more of a in your face high TTK tracking shooter with alot of loadout possibilities based on that players preference. Regarding other things mentioned I am ok with getting lower accuracy when strafing and other things like that. But honestly CCP has proven that they really dont have a vision anymore for this game....which is also why I believe they are going to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Its the next step with what they have done so far.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.09.05 19:30:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: If you want to try to justify that bunny hopping is a futuristic viable tactic I will have you say you're absolutely wrong. Behold the IRL Aimbot http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/product-hero-660x371.jpg Comes with GPS, ballistics programming, windage, range finder, and aim correction. I don't see any technological advantages for weaving through a hail of bullets or helping out bunny hopping. As I said in another thread, nothing in the history of military warfare was ever designed to get shot at outside of two things, Decoys, and Practice Targets. IWS your an idiot go away from the adults in this conversation. Noone is arguing that in the future soldiers will be bunny hopping through a battlefield. If anything those who are arguing for strafe/bunnyhopping are stating the RL does not play a role in this game. I play games to have fun and do things I cant do in RL. This game was never meant to be realistic (if it was then CCP missed their goal for this game even worse than I initially thought). What used to be fun about this game was the higher TTK with high strafe speeds forcing skilled gungame battles....until CCP ruined what little gungame they did have (uprising). Now gungame consists of letting the AA keep your aim on target for kills.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.09.05 19:36:00 - [13] - Quote Bittersteel the Bastard wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Bittersteel the Bastard wrote: Just because a game is not a simulator doesn't mean it can't have some semblance of realism. I agree with some of the points you've made in this thread semperfi (surprisingly) related to how the aim assist makes it difficult to not hit your target and takes minimal effort. However the above point I find to be very flawed. Ah but it does have some semblance of realism in other aspects...just not this one. Like I said I understand personal opinion and thats fine that he can choose not to like this ability. However at the same this game was simply never made to be a tactical shooter in that there is cover to use and moving tactics need to be employed. This game was meant to be more of a in your face high TTK tracking shooter with alot of loadout possibilities based on that players preference. Regarding other things mentioned I am ok with getting lower accuracy when strafing and other things like that. But honestly CCP has proven that they really dont have a vision anymore for this game....which is also why I believe they are going to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Its the next step with what they have done so far. I like the whole high TTK thing as well as the tracking, but why can that not incorporate some tactical elements? Your confusing tactical shooter with using tactics in a shooter. Those are two different things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_shooter You can and do use tactics when playing Dust. But that does not make it a tactical shooter. That is a subgenre that this game does not support. Do you see any cover you can utilize effectively littered throughout the entire map? No? Then its not a tactical shooter. That is the difference that I am noting when I say tactical shooter. Not that tactics cannot or should not be used but that as a genre this is not a tactical shooter.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.09.05 19:43:00 - [14] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Yea um if you want you can go back through the forums during closed beta. I have no reason to do this and I could care less if you believe me or not. The fact that Dust has special MAG tribute suits doesnt mean anything of course...... Those were only done to appease us since we were the largest portion of the community outside of Eve purists. I was there for the closed beta and anyone that wasn't in your little elitist circlejerk was shouted down and ridiculed, now here we are in commercial release and ideas that were brought up then keep getting brought up (and in some cases implemented). You mad that you and your little elitist friends are losing to the flood of "worst players ever"? Is that why you stick around and do what you can to ruin things? Yes because Dust has been such a resounding success since they started listening more to the flood of "worst players ever" instead of listening to the competitive gamers who actually know a thing or two about FPS games. Please spare me. You all act like this game is succeeding. CCP themselves admitted the game is failing and they are attempting to correct some of that but honestly its probably too little too late.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.09.05 19:46:00 - [15] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad? Why is aim assist so strong? This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate? because bunny hopping in combat is silly and in RL anyone bunny hopping instead of using cover is probably gonna get one in the head. Really the real life argument again? In a video game? ROFL this just cracks me up. In RL we also cant be shot multiple times and survive so I suggest that CCP make is so that 1-2 shots kill. Then this would have more realism!!
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.09.05 19:52:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: SgtDoughnut wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: halo1pc Heres a link of a video of me back in the day that illustrates strafeing very well, pay close attention to how you had to lead your target as you could not hit square on when a target moved. Ps no aim assist in this game...... So aim assist is not part of ALL shooters. erm all that shows is that you have to lead your targets, just means the pistol in halo wasn't hit scan. That or you are just adjusting for lag compensation, not shooting ahead because you are strafing. Hi http://www.halopedia.org/Aim-Assist BTW these numbers are not official they're reversed engineered. You know whats funny about this.......... IWS your so completely wrong its actually just stupid as you didnt read what he wrote did you. He notes......HaloPC....and you respond with NuhUH!! HaloXbox has aim assist. So not only did you fail...you failed badly. Halo PC did not have aim assist...Halo Xbox did.....heck Halo2PC did have aim assist (i think it was only for a controller). But Halo PC? Nope no aim assist in that game.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 845	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:13:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: If you want to try to justify that bunny hopping is a futuristic viable tactic I will have you say you're absolutely wrong. Behold the IRL Aimbot http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/product-hero-660x371.jpg Comes with GPS, ballistics programming, windage, range finder, and aim correction. I don't see any technological advantages for weaving through a hail of bullets or helping out bunny hopping. As I said in another thread, nothing in the history of military warfare was ever designed to get shot at outside of two things, Decoys, and Practice Targets. IWS your an idiot go away from the adults in this conversation. Noone is arguing that in the future soldiers will be bunny hopping through a battlefield. If anything those who are arguing for strafe/bunnyhopping are stating the RL does not play a role in this game. I play games to have fun and do things I cant do in RL. This game was never meant to be realistic (if it was then CCP missed their goal for this game even worse than I initially thought). What used to be fun about this game was the higher TTK with high strafe speeds forcing skilled gungame battles....until CCP ruined what little gungame they did have (uprising). Now gungame consists of letting the AA keep your aim on target for kills. I also find it funny how mention this is a means of not doing things in real life. After some quick reflection, where I used to work in the military staffing and bunny hopping can save your life there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c0lfwxRpj0 Had one snap on me went through 12 birds, 1 tactor and 2 people back in 2007 on the Kitty Hawk. striketron 102 lost their bird, one officer got fired. Ouch that is pretty serious. I know those cables are huge but man the amount of power they must have if 1 cable caused that much dmg. Crazy....
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 845	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:18:00 - [18] - Quote Bittersteel the Bastard wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad? Why is aim assist so strong? This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate? because bunny hopping in combat is silly and in RL anyone bunny hopping instead of using cover is probably gonna get one in the head. Really the real life argument again? In a video game? ROFL this just cracks me up. In RL we also cant be shot multiple times and survive so I suggest that CCP make is so that 1-2 shots kill. Then this would have more realism!! We are not trying to be make this a WWII military shooter. We are trying to be realistic in both basics and according to the lore. You cannot discredit something like that because it doesn't fit the same exact mold as something else. Actually in truth if you want to argue...."according to lore" there should be no bunny hopping/strafing...... What do you think would happen to a person psychologically if they suddenly become immortal and are constantly fighting all of the time. You think they would honestly care very much for their own "lives". No battlefields would be choked full of people just throwing their "bodies" at one another and trying to take out as many as possible before dying and reanimating to start again. Tactics are done simply because people are fragile and die easily so in order to be the most effective and lose the least number of lives on your end tactics are needed because 1-2 shots will do you in. But if there was a way to be immortal then battle would no longer employ the same tactics....there would be more rushes and different thoughts on what to do to inflict the highest number of casualties on the other side so that they run out of backup clones faster thus giving you free reign over that territory.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 847	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:45:00 - [19] - Quote Bittersteel the Bastard wrote: Clones cost money and you only have a certain number. That's why you can't just kill them willy-nilly. You honestly think rich mercs would care about that? I know I dont. I have over 260mill isk.....I have no money troubles for what I spend money on. I just dont see this as a deterent. Like a said different tactics would be used than what is currently used today. IE Suicide runs would be much more prevalent if they lead to more enemy deaths than allied deaths.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 848	Posted - 2013.09.05 21:10:00 - [20] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Yea um if you want you can go back through the forums during closed beta. I have no reason to do this and I could care less if you believe me or not. The fact that Dust has special MAG tribute suits doesnt mean anything of course...... Those were only done to appease us since we were the largest portion of the community outside of Eve purists. I was there for the closed beta and anyone that wasn't in your little elitist circlejerk was shouted down and ridiculed, now here we are in commercial release and ideas that were brought up then keep getting brought up (and in some cases implemented). You mad that you and your little elitist friends are losing to the flood of "worst players ever"? Is that why you stick around and do what you can to ruin things? Yes because Dust has been such a resounding success since they started listening more to the flood of "worst players ever" instead of listening to the competitive gamers who actually know a thing or two about FPS games. Please spare me. You all act like this game is succeeding. CCP themselves admitted the game is failing and they are attempting to correct some of that but honestly its probably too little too late. I haven't stated that the game is or isn't succeeding, though I will say that I like most of the things about 1.4 (bear in mind I said "most"). I sincerely hope that CCP is able to turn things around while including the opinions of the entire community, however there are some here that only want their segment of the community to be heard (i.e. the "competitive elite" which by definition needs to be viewed as being a very small portion of the community). On the upside, I do agree with you about the different tactics that immortality would allow from a lore perspective. See the problem here is that in general the opinions of the "non competitive elite" are usually not very good for game play. I have seen so many games literally die off because they listened to and made changes as requested by the non competitive gamers requests and all the gamers ended up leaving because the game eventually became just horrible. Meanwhile games that consider more heavily the competitive gamer element and work hard to make slight adjustments based on their comments tend to last longer with a larger playerbase. Counterstrike is a perfect example of this. Its still going strong after over a decade of playing...why? Because the devs knew to pay more attention to the elite/pro players than to the average gamer. Did they do everything the elite wanted? No they didnt but they did a pretty good job (not talking about new counterstrike...talking about Source and 1.6). Another example.......Starcraft 1/2. They work on balancing based on the elite/pro players not based on the average player.

semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 848	Posted - 2013.09.05 21:41:00 - [21] - Quote Flux Raeder wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Severus Smith wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. No, its not because I can't aim (I can aim pretty well), but because they make no f*ing sense. Go play paintball and tell me how well you do while bunny hopping / side strafing. If it's such an "pro" topic in infantry tactics then why don't our Seals, or Rangers, or Force Recon guys jump up and down and side to side like idiots while taking fire? You know why, because while it may make you (slightly) harder to hit your aim become absolute s*. So that is why. Not because I can't aim, not because I am not pro, but because it is such a laughably bad tactic that it has no place in any sort of realistic military shooter. Are you serioulsy bringing in RL examples to a fictional game set 15 million years in the future? Tell me your not because it sounds like you are and if you are then that just shows how much of an idiot you are. If you want a realistic military shooter go play Arma and crawl your way to the objective for 2 hours. Have fun. This is not a realistic based military shooter. It was meant to be a tracking shooter that was Haloesque in many ways yet CCP completely failed and ended up making a bad lobby shooter. You say its a laughably bad tactic....those who consider it a bad tactic are those who could not do it or deal with it themselves. BTW you obviously have not seen deathmatch on Halflife 1 if you consider this game to be strafy and bunnyhoppy...... If you wanna eliminate comparisons to rl and insist that everything about this game should be futuristic: I bet every drop suit auto aims for you in "15 million" years.. Just sayin If you want to go that deep we could say that the gamers are the auto aim AI and some AIs are just better than others.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 848	Posted - 2013.09.05 22:08:00 - [22] - Quote Bittersteel the Bastard wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: If you want to go that deep we could say that the gamers are the auto aim AI and some AIs are just better than others. Nonsensical considering A.I stands for Artificial Intelligence. I'm not sure about you but my intelligence is not artificial. Comon serioulsy? You cant give at all for a good tongue in cheek response? I thought it was pretty clever myself but whatever.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 850	Posted - 2013.09.05 22:12:00 - [23] - Quote APOPHIS Xxx wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad? Why is aim assist so strong? This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate? Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........ Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this. The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them. This is so true! Hey! Don't just stand there fool!! MOVE!! LOL....This isn't the time when we used muskets and waited until you see the whites of their eyes before you pulled the trigger! You flyboys want things done at a push of a button as you sit back and watch! Click here. Click there. Orbit. Fire. Oh, !@#$% warp away! warp away! LOL You get a like for making me chuckle....
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 854	Posted - 2013.09.05 22:40:00 - [24] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: Saying strafing is bad is basically like saying Scouts dont belong in this game. Medium Frame 514. Not true at all, give them a passive cloak mechanic similar to Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Future Soldier. Covert Ops Cloaks would still allow for sprinting. That would really help. Cant wait for it to be in Update 1.9 in 2016. I am sorry they delayed that patch again. 1.9 is now the patch where they will fix the aim assist system. And its not 2016. Its now been moved back to 2018. Sorry to dissapoint.....
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 854	Posted - 2013.09.05 22:41:00 - [25] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: Saying strafing is bad is basically like saying Scouts dont belong in this game. Medium Frame 514. No, it means scouts dont belong in slayer combat, scouts need to play smart and you know SCOUT. I have seen plenty of scout suits, one guy I ran with had a sniper in combat of 30-40m and he still did well! He used an active scanner and visual confirmation to give us enemy informatiom, he even hacked a cru right under there noses to give a us a flanking oppurtunity. Scouts need to be prepared to play there actual role, and so do heavies, and logistics suits, this is encouraging people to plau as a team and play to their suits strengths! This guy knows what he is talking about. Too many people expect their suit of choice to behave how an Assault should. If you want to play Assault, use a Logi dropsuit. Let me correct this for you. There you go this is now more accurate...carry on!
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 870	Posted - 2013.09.06 12:20:00 - [26] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ahem why starcraft is bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w and supplemental http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w I knew you were insane, but I didn't know how far. Dust dreams of being half as good as starcraft is to it's audience. It's a game that knows how to strike a balance between what is considered 'noob' tactics that give easy win, to complicated strategies, that if used right, can assure the win even more. Dust has no strike in balance. And you have disowned any credibility you have saying Starcraft is bad while defending Dust. If I could double like this post I would. I was flabergasted when I saw IWS mention Starcraft and then call it a bad game...... Seriously??? If starcraft is a bad game then there are pretty much no good games out there....and dust well we cant even discuss dust compared to Starcraft. Dust doesnt deserve to drink Starcrafts urine much less anything else..........
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 873	Posted - 2013.09.06 16:28:00 - [27] - Quote Cosgar wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Long Evity wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ahem why starcraft is bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w and supplemental http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w I knew you were insane, but I didn't know how far. Dust dreams of being half as good as starcraft is to it's audience. It's a game that knows how to strike a balance between what is considered 'noob' tactics that give easy win, to complicated strategies, that if used right, can assure the win even more. Dust has no strike in balance. And you have disowned any credibility you have saying Starcraft is bad while defending Dust. If I could double like this post I would. I was flabergasted when I saw IWS mention Starcraft and then call it a bad game...... Seriously??? If starcraft is a bad game then there are pretty much no good games out there....and dust well we cant even discuss dust compared to Starcraft. Dust doesnt deserve to drink Starcrafts urine much less anything else.......... Actually, Starcraft was a bad game at one point because the developers didn't have enough foresight to implement balancing against zerg tactics. For a time, zerging was the only tactic that anyone used and when it was ultimately re-balanced, many of it's core community left because they didn't learn anything new and didn't want to. I haven't played recently, but this was the last thing I remember. The lvl of fail on this thread has just reached new heights. Starcraft 1/2 are the best RTS games period.....nothing can quite compare to them. I know of no other RTS game that has a pro circuit like Starcraft does...frankly its ok if you dont like RTS games....there is nothing wrong with not enjoying those types of games as some do and some dont. But to say that Starcraft 1/2 is/are/were bad games is just a completely and absolute disgrace to the entire gaming industry.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 874	Posted - 2013.09.06 16:52:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The other fail is perfectly balanced, which results in boring game play and begins to boil down who can execute the strategy the fastest, hence the massive emphasis of 300 apm+ which is something pro players consistently proven bad in any game by going to for the same build, the same approach, the same tactic and begins to boil down to who can shoot first. IWS..........go back to talking about or discussing things that have nothing pertaining to games. You were at least interesting and reasonable to talk to when you were talking about the cable snapping on aircraft carriers. However your ability to judge a game is apparently extremely limited. You have just called Starcraft 1/2 and Chess bad games. I am sure that there are plently of other games that are pretty much universally recognized as being some of the best games in there genre that you think are absolutely horrible games. I dont know if its because you dislike that type of game and thus you judge it based on your likes/dislikes instead of judging it based on the kind of game it is. I dont know...I have no way to even approach reasoning this out. Its like you just told me that the sun is a figment of our imagination and in fact a giant firefly is in the sky flying circles around the earth to give us light......
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 874	Posted - 2013.09.06 16:58:00 - [29] - Quote Cosgar wrote: We're getting way off topic here... Yes we are.... Back to topic. Increased strafing and "bunnyhopping" (there truly is no bunnyhopping in the true sense of the term in Dust) are what made this game good before Dust began its continuous decline into ineptitude.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 874	Posted - 2013.09.06 17:27:00 - [30] - Quote Cosgar wrote: How many maps in this game have enough cover for that? You're going to get caught out in the open at some point. So true. Straffing to cover ............ crickets chirp .................... Oh there it is I only have 20 meters more to go now.

semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 874	Posted - 2013.09.06 18:31:00 - [31] - Quote Cosgar wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Cosgar wrote: How many maps in this game have enough cover for that? You're going to get caught out in the open at some point. So true. Straffing to cover ............ crickets chirp .................... Oh there it is I only have 20 meters more to go now. Off topic again, but something is extremely wrong if you're agreeing with me. Well I agree when you say things that are true. I would be a moron to not agree with your assessment regarding the amount of cover available in Dust........this is also why I think people are ret@rded when they attempt to state Dust is a tactical shooter. Since when does a tactical shooter have no cover at all from which "tactics" can be devised from?
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 874	Posted - 2013.09.06 18:38:00 - [32] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: If you want to try to justify that bunny hopping is a futuristic viable tactic I will have you say you're absolutely wrong. Behold the IRL Aimbot http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/product-hero-660x371.jpg Comes with GPS, ballistics programming, windage, range finder, and aim correction. I don't see any technological advantages for weaving through a hail of bullets or helping out bunny hopping. As I said in another thread, nothing in the history of military warfare was ever designed to get shot at outside of two things, Decoys, and Practice Targets. I'm sorry, but this statement is so false I don't even know what to say. Are you really saying nothing has been designed to absorb damage?! Really?? So armoring vehicles and planes was just to add pointless weight? Come on now... I know you are smarter then this. Armor is designed to stop a weapon. Then someone designs a weapon to defeat that armor, just in case the enemy adopts it. Pretty soon, it's sold to someone, then traded to someone else, then its copied, and everyone has it! It's a never ending cycle in the arms race. semperfi1999 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I also find it funny how mention this is a means of not doing things in real life. After some quick reflection, where I used to work in the military staffing and bunny hopping can save your life there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c0lfwxRpj0 Had one snap on me went through 12 birds, 1 tactor and 2 people back in 2007 on the Kitty Hawk. striketron 102 lost their bird, one officer got fired. Ouch that is pretty serious. I know those cables are huge but man the amount of power they must have if 1 cable caused that much dmg. Crazy.... Simple physics semperfi. Those cables absorb massive amounts of energy. You should see the size of the engines those are attached to. One of my close friends on the Abe Lincoln was an ABE and in charge of operating one of the arresting cables. Rule #1 for the flight deck, Keep you head on a swivel! Ok having a nice conversation with IWS for once and you go an act like I dont know about physics? Yea I know about physics I also know those things are crazy deadly...but at the same time it went through 12 jets....a tractor.....and then 2 people (sadly). Thats still alot of power and its still amazing to consider a cable slicing through all of that like it was a huge sword.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 874	Posted - 2013.09.06 18:47:00 - [33] - Quote Cosgar wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Cosgar wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Cosgar wrote: How many maps in this game have enough cover for that? You're going to get caught out in the open at some point. So true. Straffing to cover ............ crickets chirp .................... Oh there it is I only have 20 meters more to go now. Off topic again, but something is extremely wrong if you're agreeing with me. Well I agree when you say things that are true. I would be a moron to not agree with your assessment regarding the amount of cover available in Dust........this is also why I think people are ret@rded when they attempt to state Dust is a tactical shooter. Since when does a tactical shooter have no cover at all from which "tactics" can be devised from? There's tactical gameplay, but like everything else, it's kind of a mixture. The devs are trying to appeal to everybody and all they're doing is pissing us all because the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. It really feels like the hit detection guy, the aim assist guy, and the strafing guy made their changes without comparing notes and now we have.... this. See your confusing tactical shooter with using tactics..... Even twitch shooters use tactics...they are just different. Look up tactical shooters........this is not a tactical shooter. This is a shooter that can use tactics like any other PvP game but just because you can use tactics that doesnt mean its a tactical shooter.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 876	Posted - 2013.09.06 18:57:00 - [34] - Quote Octavian Vetiver wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad? Why is aim assist so strong? This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate? because bunny hopping in combat is silly and in RL anyone bunny hopping instead of using cover is probably gonna get one in the head. Really the real life argument again? In a video game? ROFL this just cracks me up. In RL we also cant be shot multiple times and survive so I suggest that CCP make is so that 1-2 shots kill. Then this would have more realism!! What rock have you been living under? People can quite often be shot many times depending on the caliber and where it hits. What kills anyways isn't the actual bullet unless it hits something vital which is quite rare in all actuality. What actually kills them is from cavitation and fragmentation of the bullet when it goes into the body. A bullet punching straight through really doesn't do anything. Also higher velocity is more deadly then low velocity. Yes because being shot multiple times and surviving is so incredibly common............ Stop watching your movies and start checking things out in the real world. In the real world humans although resiliant are still very fragile and very easy to kill. Yes the military wears armor but that doesnt keep them perfectly safe now does it? I cant believe you are actually attempting to make a distinction between being shot and the results of being shot. So basically to reiiterate.....being shot by a bullet usually doesnt kill you....its the fact that the bullet fragments when it enters the body and creates a larger exit wound (assuming the round leaves the body) than entrance wound is what kills the body. The bullet is really not instrumental in this hole process Its like saying...grenades dont kill people...the fragmentation from a grenade is what kills people.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 876	Posted - 2013.09.06 18:59:00 - [35] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Or you know you could get a lav and drive across!! Or take a tank, or get a tank friemd to drive at running pace, you could use him as cover since you cant get shot from behind a tank!! There is no tank user that would willingly use their 1.5-2 mill isk tank as a rolling point of cover for the infantry.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 876	Posted - 2013.09.06 19:05:00 - [36] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Or you know you could get a lav and drive across!! Or take a tank, or get a tank friemd to drive at running pace, you could use him as cover since you cant get shot from behind a tank!! There is no tank user that would willingly use their 1.5-2 mill isk tank as a rolling point of cover for the infantry. I have, yesterday!! Besides thats realy what they should be doing anyway, tanks need infantry just as much as infantry need tanks!! Yeah they still stop that immediately if there is even 1 person on the opposite team with proto swarms.....they pretty much insta pop tanks.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 876	Posted - 2013.09.06 19:29:00 - [37] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Or you know you could get a lav and drive across!! Or take a tank, or get a tank friemd to drive at running pace, you could use him as cover since you cant get shot from behind a tank!! There is no tank user that would willingly use their 1.5-2 mill isk tank as a rolling point of cover for the infantry. I have, yesterday!! Besides thats realy what they should be doing anyway, tanks need infantry just as much as infantry need tanks!! Yeah they still stop that immediately if there is even 1 person on the opposite team with proto swarms.....they pretty much insta pop tanks. Which is why you have suporting infantry, they take care of the av, you take care of them!! Not really......... Just the other day was playign with a friend who runs high lvl swarms and we attacked a AUR based tank (decently built out as far as tanks go) that was literally surrounded by infantry. We the infantry despite us being outnumbered 3-1 in infantry we completely owned the tank in less than 2 seconds. Only 1 swarm involved and I hit him with a couple adv packed nades. The Tank was roflpwned.....unfortunately I was unable to escape myself but the guy i was playing with was able to get out of there. So yea its not hard to insta gibb a tank even if it has 9 infantry defending it from AV.
semperfi1999 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 876	Posted - 2013.09.06 19:30:00 - [38] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Man I like to play a competitive shooter for ... wait for it... a competitive shooter experience. If I wanted to experience tactical warfare and realism of combat I would joined the Marine Corps and risked having my legs blown off in some remote place. In this game there is already too much 'tactical' - what it amounts to is who is using more proto gear and tanks. The way this game is dumbed down is beyond good and evil. You cant aim or strafe - the game forces autoaim and movement feels like running through water. CCPs reply.... Well the atmosphere is different for our planets and its actually thicker than water so that sounds about right..........

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