See the problem here is that in general the opinions of the "non competitive elite" are usually not very good for game play. I have seen so many games literally die off because they listened to and made changes as requested by the non competitive gamers requests and all the gamers ended up leaving because the game eventually became just horrible. Meanwhile games that consider more heavily the competitive gamer element and work hard to make slight adjustments based on their comments tend to last longer with a larger playerbase. Counterstrike is a perfect example of this. Its still going strong after over a decade of playing...why? Because the devs knew to pay more attention to the elite/pro players than to the average gamer. Did they do everything the elite wanted? No they didnt but they did a pretty good job (not talking about new counterstrike...talking about Source and 1.6).

Another example.......Starcraft 1/2. They work on balancing based on the elite/pro players not based on the average player.

If you wanna eliminate comparisons to rl and insist that everything about this game should be futuristic: I bet every drop suit auto aims for you in "15 million" years.. Just sayin

Let's look at another game that has been going strong for 10 years, growing every year-- Eve.

Eve takes input from all aspects of the community and integrates it successfully (Incarnage notwithstanding).

@stlcarlos989

I am not disagreeing with you there, though you need to ask CCP why we don't have built in zoom and the capability to toss LAVs at reddots.

If you want to go that deep we could say that the gamers are the auto aim AI and some AIs are just better than others.

Why are strafing and bunny hopping bad?

Why is aim assist so strong?

This is not spam, just questions to see the opinions of those in this debate?

EVE has catered to the hardcore gamer.... from the very inception... If you even think that EVE even thought once about the casual gamer in the last 10 years your delusional. You want WoW its over ------------->

Because Eve kids want this game to be the first turn based FPS tab shooter. Aim assist is strong because the majority of players suck.......badly........

Strafing is and bunny hopping is "bad" because these kids cannot track people who know how to move their character in ways to avoid incoming fire.....so this results in people complaining about those who can successfully do this.

The basic opinion in a nutshell......the people who complain about strafing and inability to track a target are pathetically bad at this game and they want the game to make up for their lack of skill so that people who are good at these two items do not completely roflstomp them.

Nonsensical considering A.I stands for Artificial Intelligence. I'm not sure about you but my intelligence is not artificial.

This is so true! Hey! Don't just stand there fool!! MOVE!! LOL....This isn't the time when we used muskets and waited until you see the whites of their eyes before you pulled the trigger! You flyboys want things done at a push of a button as you sit back and watch! Click here. Click there. Orbit. Fire. Oh, !@#$% warp away! warp away! LOL

Comon serioulsy? You cant give at all for a good tongue in cheek response? I thought it was pretty clever myself but whatever.

Saying strafing is bad is basically like saying Scouts dont belong in this game.

Medium Frame 514.

Not true at all, give them a passive cloak mechanic similar to Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Future Soldier.

Covert Ops Cloaks would still allow for sprinting.

Saying strafing is bad is basically like saying Scouts dont belong in this game.

Medium Frame 514.

No, it means scouts dont belong in slayer combat, scouts need to play smart and you know SCOUT.
I have seen plenty of scout suits, one guy I ran with had a sniper in combat of 30-40m and he still did well! He used an active scanner and visual confirmation to give us enemy informatiom, he even hacked a cru right under there noses to give a us a flanking oppurtunity.

Scouts need to be prepared to play there actual role, and so do heavies, and logistics suits, this is encouraging people to plau as a team and play to their suits strengths!

That would really help.

Cant wait for it to be in Update 1.9 in 2016.

This guy knows what he is talking about.

Too many people expect their suit of choice to behave how an Assault should.

If you want to play Assault, use a Logi dropsuit.

No, it means scouts dont belong in slayer combat, scouts need to play smart and you know SCOUT.
I have seen plenty of scout suits, one guy I ran with had a sniper in combat of 30-40m and he still did well! He used an active scanner and visual confirmation to give us enemy informatiom, he even hacked a cru right under there noses to give a us a flanking oppurtunity.

Scouts need to be prepared to play there actual role, and so do heavies, and logistics suits, this is encouraging people to plau as a team and play to their suits strengths!

I'm sorry, IWS, I didn't think you'd take my comment about tanks being designed to resist firepower as tanks being designed to resist specifically anti-tank firepower.

The purpose of tanks is to make anti-infantry weapons obsolete. That was the reason they were invented, and their effectiveness at doing so is the reason they persist on the battlefield. Their presence as a weapon immune to small arms is the reason more powerful weapons were developed as a counter.

The point being that tanks on real battlefields exist specifically because they CAN handle a certain level of enemy firepower without it being a real concern for them. If you could just spray a tank with an AR and it fell over dead, nobody would waste the effort building them.

I'm actually surprised I got such a sensible reply, given the relative idiocy of what I was trying to say.

Let me correct this for you.


There you go this is now more accurate...carry on!

Yeah.

I'll Scout with my equalised scan range, one equipement, and ****** stamina.

Boy, CCP sure do know the role of the Scout.

Scouts dont have a role, anything a Scout can do, a Logi can do better.

Our Stamina was nerfed, we got some ridiculous stamina recharge delay, our passive scanning was nerfed, and we lost an equipment slot.

I refuse to use an Active Scanner because my Passive Scanning should be enough, but Scouts are like dropships, CCP still doesn't understand their role, even though its in their name.

He really doesn't know what hes talking about.

See the problem here is that in general the opinions of the "non competitive elite" are usually not very good for game play. I have seen so many games literally die off because they listened to and made changes as requested by the non competitive gamers requests and all the gamers ended up leaving because the game eventually became just horrible. Meanwhile games that consider more heavily the competitive gamer element and work hard to make slight adjustments based on their comments tend to last longer with a larger playerbase. Counterstrike is a perfect example of this. Its still going strong after over a decade of playing...why? Because the devs knew to pay more attention to the elite/pro players than to the average gamer. Did they do everything the elite wanted? No they didnt but they did a pretty good job (not talking about new counterstrike...talking about Source and 1.6).

Another example.......Starcraft 1/2. They work on balancing based on the elite/pro players not based on the average player.

Stuff.

Their presence as a weapon immune to small arms is the reason more powerful weapons were developed as a counter.

I'm actually surprised I got such a sensible reply, given the relative idiocy of what I was trying to say.

Just because he has better described how things should be rather than how they are, doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Why CCP nerfed scouts the way they have, IDK.

No.

Hes telling me to play a Scout in a Scout suit when the game doesn't properly support it.

He thinks you can do it, but its much more effective to play aggressivly as a Scout, you're worthless to the team if you're not.

Some Food for thought the AR's RoF is 12.5 Rounds per second, and basic AR's (no skill) do around 30 Dam an Duv with Prof 5 and 2 complex damage mods is around 51 dam per bullet

Duv base damage 37.5 * 1.15(Prof 5) * 1.17 (complex dam mods) = 50.456 dam

So it's pretty powerful even at base
31 * 12 bullets in 1 second thats 372 Hit points, more than a Breach MD direct hit, more than a light blaster turret in the same period of time, more than plenty of other things in one SECOND!

Yes this where the problem lies, I think its clear people used aim assist as a scapegoat, why? Because now that the bullets register the ar has true power, and they dont want it balanced!! HROF weapons need a balance pass, not too much maybe 20% less damage, a little more dispertion a little more kick, nothing too drastic!!