I used the AR exclusively until the most recent respec...then I used the scrambler. I am confident that I know what I am talking about after months of AR use and a couple months of ASCR use under my belt.....but you want the numbers....not sure why you cant compare this yourself but here it is.


ASCR
Pros: Higher per shot dmg, better accuracy, higher mag size, more max ammo, faster reload time, less CPU, recoil/disperion same as fully skilled AR,

Cons: slightly lower DPS from the AR (465.89 DPS for the ASCR vs 467.50 for the AR), slightly lower RPM can overheat, 80% dmg to armor (difference of 2 dmg per shot from the AR)


AR
Pros: higher RPM , no possible way to overheat, less PG, 90% dmg to armor

Cons: Lower per shot dmg, lower accuracy, lower mag size, less max ammo, slower reload time, more CPU, must spend 1.5 mill extra SP to obtain same recoil/dispersion that ASCR starts with, iron sight, 10% bonus to shield dmg

Now the only thing that cannot be quantified is whether the hip fire on the AR is slightly better than the ASCR or not. I have tried both and honestly its hard to tell but if I was forced to give this to one of the guns I would probably lean a little more towards the AR having a slight advantage in hipfire....but its only a very slight advantage.

As you can see from the stats the ASCR in general comes out ahead of the AR every single time. Yes there are some things the AR is better at I would never debate that. But even in the areas where the AR is better the difference is pretty small......nigh insignificant since everyone misses some shots so noone truly sees that DPS on an enemy. But the areas where the ASCR is better than the AR the difference can be very significant. Total possible dmg from the AR before reload is 2244 but the ASCR is 2851.2....that is a difference of over 600 dmg before reloading....that is possibly another kill. Reload is .5 seconds faster for the ASCR.....the CPU/PG just depends on your suit if you can take more CPU or more PG....so thats not really a defining issue between the weapons as it depends on your specific build. Any place where the ASCR has less dmg it is lower dmg by 2 points...but where the dmg is greater for the ASCR its a difference of 6.38 (using base info not counting any proficiencies so this difference becomes larger as proficiencies are included). The only significant supposed downside for the ASCR is that it can overheat but seriously who has ever overheated the ASCR on accident? Its almost impossible to do on accident. Also the AR downside is as it fires continuously the recoil/dispersion becomes greater and greater.

Honestly if you cant admit that the ASCR is a better weapon (maybe not your preference but just based on stats) then you just blind. The ASCR is the better assault than the assault rifle is (which is supposed to be the gallente version of the weapon LOL).

Sooooo true.


What the hell are the AR drawbacks? I get MD qqing from player, I get 18 freaking ammo that's nearly 5 kills max before needing a nano. TAC gets 300 rounds with the games best range not incl sniper and no overheat mechanic? Jeez. Don't think ill e going back.

For such a nerf to apply it would mean that the range should NOT be nerfed. Also the other rifles would have to have their damage decreased accordingly. For example the ASCR would have to get its damage nerfed to 29.16. Also this does not account for the TAC and SCR which would now far out DPS these two guns. I think the best thing is to reduce the range of the AR but increase or keep the DPS (lower damage increase ROF), slightly reduce the range and keep DPS of the breach, and keep the range and reduce the DPS of the TAC AR. That way all 3 weapon variants will excel within their own ranges, and not be carbon copies of each other with just different rates of fire....

And like I said a million times over, DPS does not make a better weapon; In an MMO a high DPS weapon is usually not better than a low DPS weapon, for example a pair of daggers vs a warhammer, the daggers have high damage potential but due to their low range it always puts the user in harms way, while the warhammer has longer range and high spike damage so they can get a couple shots in that will possibly be lethal unless the dagger user is skilled enough to close distance while mitigating damage but at the same time the warhammer user can be skilled enough to obliterate the dagger user before he can close distance. This is the difference between high DPS and low DPS, the dagger and the warhammer, the blaster cannon and the rail gun. If you were to compare the blaster cannon vs the rail gun, the blaster cannon has a DPS of 750 while a rail gun has a DPS of 614, but in a fire fight who would win? Well the answer is who has the range advantage.

I've removed the opinions you threw out as facts from the quote.

But "Better" is an opinion, and I was also asking on numbers on recoil. Zoom in and you can fire with the AR without the gun moving, even if you are. The ASCR hops all over the place regardless of how you are moving. This makes it much harder to use the longer range it has. It is also something you won't see in numbers. Your numbers are also disingenuous. You can't compare straight DPS because half of that being applied is reduced by 20% on the scrambler rifles. You would only see direct comparisons if you were shooting at a target with no armor and only shields, which doesn't exist. So, a straight DPS comparison is fallacious.

The ASCR might as well have no overheat mechanic, I've used it a lot and never gotten it to overheat on my assault suit. The regular SCR however is ridiculous in how easy it is to overheat. My point, however, was that the advantages supposedly given to the SCR variants aren't that well applied in current game maps and scenarios. Longer range is useless if you can't apply it (see recoil when zoomed for ASCR), and a built in drawback function on a gun that just barely comes up even with the AR. So why use it at all? Yah you may have a slight DPS advantage, but the SCR is semi-auto, meaning your RPM is never going to be the maximum, and the overheat mechanic full on prevents you from hitting it anyway. So your total DPS is never actually going to be what you're saying it is.

Regarding your whining about the 1.8m SP needed to invest in dispersion/accuracy, the SCR basically needs the Amarr Assault suits to get any sort of DPS without overheating, so I consider that an even trade as it binds you to using Amarr suits, and all the imbalance issues of that ( guess you Amarr people just get one less slot on your suits, cause lulz balance -CCP). That is an entire suit you HAVE to spec into just to use a gun properly, to try and sort of match the default assault rifle. Yah, I consider that an even trade for a modicum of a slightly potential higher DPS that is never actually seen in game.



Key point as I said, there aren't any. There's no reason to use any other weapon. Especially on suits that don't bonus shields so you can stack your mids with damage modifiers and lows with armor plates. Who says you need trade offs in this game?

^^to add to all the points you mentioned, disperion on the AR resets everytime you release the trigger, so lightly tapping the trigger makes your AR pinpoint accurate. so, thats 1.8 million SP saved.

not to mentioed you need light weapons lvl2 and scrambler rifles lvl4 to even get an AScr. so, you need 2.5 million SP just to use the darn thing. and check it out it has about 15% better dps than a militia AR.

how much SP does a milita AR cost? 0. how much does it cost in ISK? 610.
how much SP for a full auto AScr? 2.5 million (weaponry lvl3, light weapony 2, scrambler rilfes lvl 4), how much isk? 17,483

the following are in damage per second
militia AR dps = 425 *10% = 467.
how much does it do to shields? 514
how much does it do to armor? 420

Ascr dps = 444.15 (the AScr came out after all weapons got the 10% damage buff, so it may or may not have the buff. 488.6)
how much does it do to shields? 532
how much does it do to armor? 355

scrambler rifle STD:
the dps would appear to be high because at 72hp per shot and and a fire rate of 705 your dps would be 846, however you must pull the trigger 12 times in 1 second inorder to do that dps. inaddition, the heat build up is 60 per second, with a 6second cool down and a 5second overheat seizure. so, if you fire 1 round every second you will over heat after 6 to 7 shots, and do 52 damage to yourself.

indeed 6-7 shots is 504 total damage done, but thats 6 to seven shots in 6-7 seconds.
the milita AR does 425 in 1 second.

^^you forgot to include the lvl1 and 2 lvl SP from weaponry
the lvl 1 SP from light weapon
the lvl 1, lvl2 and lvl3 from Scrambler rifle operation

and don't forget the milita AR is a 0 SP weapon

I think AR needs a 10% damage reduction and all weapons need another 10% damage reduction. That is 20% reduction on AR total. I would say to buff other weapons instead, but it would make all weapons drop even heavies rather fast which would make this too close to CoD.

What do you mean? I think you added it wrong 0.0, level one weaponry is 6220 SP and level 2 is 18650, and level 3 is 43530 thus 68400.

I didn't forget that the militia AR is 0 SP, but I am an advocate of all weapons getting militia variants so anything I say would contradict what thought process

I think AR needs a 10% damage reduction and all weapons need another 10% damage reduction. That is 20% reduction on AR total. I would say to buff other weapons instead, but it would make all weapons drop even heavies rather fast which would make this too close to CoD.

I used to think the HMG needed a buff, but what it really needs is the turn speed on the suit to be fixed, and the reticule cone to actually represent actual dispersion and hit detection.

Ar still does more in more situations: why shotgun when an ar can kill in .3 seconds and has more range and damage per clip? Why use a laser when an ar's damage does more damage inside the laser's optimal? Why use an smg when an ar does more dps and has better cqc potential? Why use hmg when ar's do the same dps, but over a more uniform range? We need to keep the ar's 'jack of all trades' aspect, but when it outperforms niche weapons in their niche? I call bull.

Ar still does more in more situations: why shotgun when an ar can kill in .3 seconds and has more range and damage per clip? Why use a laser when an ar's damage does more damage inside the laser's optimal? Why use an smg when an ar does more dps and has better cqc potential? Why use hmg when ar's do the same dps, but over a more uniform range? We need to keep the ar's 'jack of all trades' aspect, but when it outperforms niche weapons in their niche? I call bull.

Why is this argument still going? wait til the other weapons are out... if anything, decrease the AR clip size...

Adding new weapons isn't going to make the current AR any less OP than now.

Buff the other light weapons:

Laser Rifle
Plasma Cannon
Shotguns
Scrambler Rifles

And the HMG since now heavies prefer the lolForgeGun for killing infantry.

Swarms and snipers are fine.

Only with that you'll see less ARs. You see lots of them because these weapons are practically useless. Buff them and people will spec into their favorite.

Still AR will rule because is the only weapon similar to a gun from COD and BF3. And guess what, this a console FPS, so people will use the thing that's most familiar with. But the ARs aren't OP imo, the other weapons need buff.

-XOXO

Ar still does more in more situations: why shotgun when an ar can kill in .3 seconds and has more range and damage per clip? Why use a laser when an ar's damage does more damage inside the laser's optimal? Why use an smg when an ar does more dps and has better cqc potential? Why use hmg when ar's do the same dps, but over a more uniform range? We need to keep the ar's 'jack of all trades' aspect, but when it outperforms niche weapons in their niche? I call bull.

Actually nobody knows the Damage per clip of the Shotgun unless you can count all those pellets, also the AR is mean't to have its own niche and that is high DPS low range.

Hey bro, in what FPS game do people NOT spam the AR? IMO, the AR should be the most balanced, most used gun in the game. Maybe you shouldn't post a thread with stupid complaints about a gun that everyone uses.

yeah but


1. An Ar of any type is not meant to have higher dps than a HMG

and

2. the AR has the longest range of all but he TAC, and Sniper rifles

People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle.