People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle.

Here's the kill board from a skirmish map.

ARs-117
ScR-7

Seems nobody uses the ScR.

Facerape the AR with the balance bat in, 3, 2, ,1...

lol let me show the power of my Proto SCR and ASCR

Of course the AR is popular. It's easy to use, reliable, and many players will choose to invest SP in it before considering a second weapon to skill into simply because of its simplicity and familiarity. You said it yourself, you're complaining about overuse and not imbalance. From my perspective, you're also wildly exaggerating.

Expecting every gun to be represented equally among the player base is pretty ridiculous. If I ran a poll of everyone's favorite ice cream, animal, cartoon show, book, superhero, whatever, not one of these would receive equal representation throughout. Why should random chance or even balanced weaponry somehow result in balanced diversity in weapon usage?

Less than half of my deaths have been the result of lone AR fire. Hell, if I'm going to escape from any fire fight, it will be vs an AR at mid range. I'm just as likely to be under fire from scrambler rifles and in my experience someone in my LOS is probably holding a mass driver or a flaylock. Snipers are abundant. Scouts usually have a shotgun, smg, and/or flaylock. Heavies are obviously likely to be carrying HMGs or forge guns. I don't see plasma cannons, maybe one a day and that guy's probably just trying it out. Don't see many lasers. I see them, but not many.

I think you'll find so many AR kills because the AR is the most widely used weapon. Why is it widely used? Because that is what the AR is designed for, lots of people run assault and, strangely enough, the ASSAULT RIFLE is useful for assault players. Who would have thought it?

The AR is the mainstay of any army, real or in games. Do you see the World Powers banning the AR because too many people use it in battle? NO!

Dust is a FPS and like every other FPS game in History the AR or some variant of it is going to feature widely in it. If you die a lot from getting shot by ARs I would say become a sniper (you'll be out of range), become a tanker (ARs are useless against tanks), become a better player (so you can kill people before they kill you) or most preferably, go play Skyrim (they have no ARs and then we wouldn't have to listen to your crap)

OP, I value your opinion, because you're a niche player like myself.
AR Spam is natural and expected, this goes all the way back to Counter Strike, even Quake.

The AR is everyone's basic starter utility weapon.
The scrambler rifle is my new utility weapon of choice, however. Learn to manage the heat, and it'll facerape ARs all day long.

When the other utility weapons come out, I believe CCP will change the racial starter fits to use that race's utility weapon.
Only Gallente will start with the AR, Amarr will start with the SCR, and so on. Then you'll see the systemic balance you desire.

Be nice if we had access to weapon variants at Standard level again.
STD Assault Scrambler Rifle, STD Tactical Assault Rifle, etc.

actually. i agree with him. put HMGs back to where they were in chromosome with the same range, and the current damage. make lasers like they were in chromosome. put flaylocks damage back to where it was (the splash radius can stay the same. just use standard and then ull get used to the smaller radius), put shotguns where they were in chromosome, put MD back to where they were in chrmomosome.

then we will see who has the last laugh

Part of the reason AR seems OP is because folks have skilled heavily into it because the other weapons get nerfed/changed so much but the AR stays pretty constant. Also, every suit can use the thing so why not?

If you skill the other weapons into lvl 5 profeciency, they are just as effective and deadly, difference is that they typically require a different play style than the run and gun most FPS players are used to.

COD Black Ops was same way with everyone using the same weapons until folks figured out how to be effective with the others, then you'd see folks killing the masses with hipfired sniper rifles or shotguns or pistols while they tried to stick with the ARs there.

I loved the MD until it was nerfed, now it's fixed and I'm working my way back into them again. But my AR fits won't be erased because it's a stand by. Also, a MD in Skirmish on an open map is pointless so choose a weapon that fits the map and role you want. The all around weapon of choice will still likely be the AR... stop QQ'ing about it

AR is not OP. been using every type. i used the TAC AR for most of my time playing, with my minmatar logi...

until two days ago

i took a chance and tried out adv lasers with a basic adv medium suit

destroyed the **** out of people, and when i was too close with the laser, my scrambler pistol or assault pistol worked fine, especially in a bull rush

i will never look back on ARs ever again, unless i run my minmatar logi in which i need close and medium range with the only weapon due to the lack of a sidearm slot.

i was so sure i would never move away from that TAC AR due to "how easy" it was to kill with. laser is so much easier

Its an assault rifle.

...ASSAULT RIFLE

Literally THE most common infantry weapon. Complaining about AR spam in DUST, you might as well complain about AR in every armed force in the world.

It's just not fair I tell you, nearly every US soldier being equipped with an M4!

The army should nerf the M4 so it shoots rainbows, and force soldiers to use other more ridiculous weapons.

I can't even believe people complain about spam, from what is SUPPOSED to be the most common weapon on the field.

Honestly making a weapon worthless to force players to use different weapons to increase "diversity" of weapon is just stupid. I could go into how stupid it is but as we saw with yesterday debate.........you have no logical reasoning to stand on. You just want to limit peoples options so that you can see different weapons on the kill feed.

Also I love how everyone complains about the ARs desite the ASCR being better in every way. I drop heavies alot faster with my ASCR than I did with the AR.

Where exactly are you getting this information?

The issue isn't the spam of blaster rifles, that is merely sympomatic of the real problem which is the imbalance of the rifles.

Part of this is due to their only being 2 of the 4 total rifles available yet.

Part of this is due to the basic starting militia fits favoring the blaster rifle fit over the scrambler rifle.

And a large part of this is due to the inherent, "never not" reason to use the duvolle.

As is, there is no scenario in which the duvolle isn't one of the best weapons. Close quarters, at a distance, accuracy, high damage and rate of fire, large clip size, tracking, it excels at everything. Maybe not as good as some specialized weapons in specific scenarios, but being 90% as good in 100% of the fields, is better than being 100% as good in 20% of the field.

There are a number of things that should change to resolve this.

1. Give a reason to use other weapons. ShotGuns and HMGs should by default be better in closed in areas or up close. The scrambler rifle needs to have its kick removed while zoomed in (there's no reason for this, and the Duvolle/laser rifles don't have one).

2. The Duvolle, and other blaster rifles in general, need some sort of draw back in comparison, be it a higher kick than the scrambler, a shorter effective range (and I mean actually effective, see below*) smaller clip size or poor'er zoomed in accuracy, or any number of other ideas.

* By effective range I mean range that is actually seen in game, 40m sounds short, but when you play the game rarely (unless sniping) do you see targets that are outside of your effective range. Using the scrambler rifle, you rarely have a chance to use your higher range at an advantage, because maps are generally closer than your effect range. If you do find that chance, your damage isn't high enough to kill someone before they seek cover. So, what is thus the point of that? You end up needing to use a charged shot to score head shots, effectively sniping, to have real range advantage. Which asks the question, why bother when the blaster rifle is 90% as good in almost every other scenario?

3. The shield discrepancy and the Scrambler Rifle. The other aspect, is that currently the only other rifles, the Scrambler and laser, get a distinct DPS decrease when you hit armor. The blaster rifles continue to chug through both shield and armor without consequence. This is another reason to not use energy weapons, as this fact isn't compensated by a higher DPS overall. So likely, if using the SCR rifle, you end up with a lot of enemies with 70% armor left and no shields, and no kills. The one advantage the energy weapons do have, is the ability to charge up a shot, and deal extra damage. Yet if you try to capitalize on this extra damage, the weapon overheats, damaging you, and ruining your ability to continue to do damage. You can't do anything else while the gun cools, you can't swap weapons, you can't throw grenades, you can only run around and hope that A, they don't kill you in this time, or B, they don't get away from you in this time. Why, would you handicap yourself with such a mechanic, that has no real advantage to it?

Overall, there are distinct reasons NOT to use the other rifles, but no real reason to not use the Blaster rifle. Hence, the never not issue. Players seek to maximize their efficiency and have thus specialized into the weapon that gives them the best return, the Duvolle. Making the best gun, even better, and the worse guns, even worse.

EVRY other gun has been nerfed into the underworld because of "loose assumptions" based off of one, or two Matches!

Why not give the AR Rambos a bit of their own medicine!



All philosophical reasons aside, that is 34 Matches included in both of those threads.

And in both of those threads, there is One common denominator.

The AR has lead twice the size of the second place finisher.

In a grand total of 34 matches.

That is not flawed data.

That's the number of people they tested polio vaccines with. (The size of a School Class)

Obviously, you want to shoot down a bulletproof airplane with nerf darts.

This is true, this is the facts.

Not Paper accusations, and lacking of facts arguments.

In a RPG the classes would go;
Logi = Support (Medic / buffer)
Scout = Rogue (debuffer/assassin)
Heavy = Tank (team guardian)
Assault = DPS (damage dealer)

Armed with an assault rifle you would be able to do just that... deal damage.
I specced into SMG and Knives and actually prefer to help the team without engaging in combat (hack, uplinks, destroy equipment) but when I do it's usually the flaylocks, MD, and shotgunners that kill me... not the AR. And this is when I decide to charge whole groups head on out of sheer boredom (only rocking STD gear)!

Yea a lot of people use them... so f****** what!? If the weapon was OP then that's one thing, but your qqing about it being too dam popular! WTF man!? DUST has enough things that need to be done then to worry about a d*** popularity contest! When DUST gets to were it needs to be THEN you can qq about weapons being too comfortable as nobody would really give a d***.

Where did you get those numbers? After the post regarding flaylock pistols and so on I think CCP has a pretty good picture of how many kills are done with which weapon.

Your an idiot...yes the AR was nerfed (and rightly so for some of it). AR was nerfed from Codex to chromosome (i believe that is the right build...its the build right before the open beta). In Codex the AR has 0 recoil/dispersion....this was corrected in chromosome as this caused the AR to be OP. However they also put in a horrible HORRIBLE iron sight that is the worst iron sight I have ever had to play with. Literally in order to shoot someone you had to cover the enemy with your sight....not put the top of the post on the enemy this is not where the shots went...in order to hit someones head you had to literally cover their head with the sight instead of placing their head on top of the middle post of the sight (which is how iron sights are supposed to work). If CCP had added the iron sight the ARs now have there would have never been an outcry from AR users that CCP completely screwed up the AR. So yes the AR has been nerfed....and in fact it was overnerfed as the sight was horrible for months and AR users just had to get used to using a horrible sight.

What is this, like your 14th nerf AR thread with no real data aside from "omgz AR so popler"

He is a GAYLOCKER

Why is this argument still going? wait til the other weapons are out... if anything, decrease the AR clip size...

The reason people don't like the AR isn't because "Assault rifles" are over powered, it's because there is a class of weapon that has no real drawbacks and are able to stand toe-to-toe with the weapons that are supposed to econtrol a certain niche in their area of expertise while dominating every other weapon. You either spec into ARs or you waste your SP. That acts contrary to the balance and diversity that most people want to see in this game.

I want CCP to introduce the racial AR variants and achive racial symmetry before tweaking everything, but after that either CCP needs to change the AR so it isn't the obvious best weapon to use.


CCP really ****** up calling the Gallente racial rifle the "AR". The scrambler is supposed to be the amarrian ground force's "AR" , but you don't see anybody arguing that it is supposed to account for 90% of the kills that happen most games.

That's true, but it'll be easier to see exactly where the AR should be and what it's exact role is. Any changes CCP would make right now would just be a guess which could make things harder for themselves later.

A nerf to the AR without other weapons to fill all the niches this "master of all tades" currently fills could cause too many players to just straight up quit. We need to have racial symmetry for all of the different races "assault rifles" before nerfing the AR.

I'd hunt for the dev post if needed, but I believe it's been stated that 1.4 will be a massive infantry release and 1.5 will entail a balancing pass for all the weapons.

There is hope in sight, so we don't need to nerf the AR out of the game just yet, no matter how much I'd like to see that after what those qq'ers did to my laser rifle.

why hasn't Mint chip, or wolfman, or other DEVs posted here or on the other nerf AR threads? I see them posting on the Mass Driver nerf threads, flaylock threads... but AR nerf threads they have shown no attention.

If 1.4 doesn't bring me sme significant changes, im quiting DUST. I am pretty sure 1.4 will break or make this game as alot of people seem to share my sentiments. if, BALANCE is not here in 1.4 or shortly after, a arge chunk of gamers will leave.

Its said when players from DUST go back to MAG or CoD due to balancing issues

AR vs ScR is pretty well balanced right now, IMO. The basic SCR is perfect for winning the mid range game and spot removal I love popping a logi as they try to provide support for a squad, or taking out that uplink from range. If I'm forced into CQC I can just bring my aSCR and give any AR user a run for their money.

Nerfing the AR would make my weapon then seem overpowered. We need the other racial weapons and new heavy weapons before we nerf the crap out of the AR.

Once all the rifles are available, there needs to be a militia version available with each racial variant included on starter fits so that new players aren't funneled into using the Gallente rifle.

Still. FLAYLOCKS....

I keep bringin it up because it is an outstanding case. No one considered the maps it was used on, the people who died to it, and all its counters (hill, range, mobility, weapons that countered it, nor tactics that countered it). They just QQ'd OP and it was nerfed. thats it.

So, i dn't want to hear the is BS, because the same case was true of FLAYLOCKs, but to a greater degree, because way more people used ARs than flaylocks anyway.

Explain that way

We'll be closely watching your feedback on these changes as well as monitoring the data to see how they play out live after 1.3 rolls out. As we see Flaylocks and Contact Grenades being used more and more, we had to do something about it and quickly, so players start coming back to the other grenade and sidearm options we offer in game.

This is under the assumption that all the racial rifles are rebalanced to have their own advantages, disadvantages and ranges. Hopefully we won't just be getting 2 more rifles that are less effective than the Gallente rifle that's good at everything.

Kind of like what's going on with the Mass Driver? We finally get the damn thing buffed back up from one of the craziest reasons to nerf something and people cry because they can't learn to run from an area denial weapon.

Sadly, the same thing goes on in EVE. Remember the crap that went on over drakes and battle ships vs cruisers?

Should we have an absolute equal amount of snipers forge guns and laser rifles wnd a
r.s ? No a sniper should be rarer because nit every one can do it , and what if a 3rd of the people in dust had heavy armor? No its about 2/10 which is good the simpler the tge equipment the more people should use it imagine if a more balanced number of tanks or dropships

An Assault Rifle being the most predominate weapon in an Infantry Combat game makes perfect sense. Pretty sure it is the most predominate weapon for any army in the world. It is a general combat weapon designed to excel in battle against other Infantrymen. It provides adequate DPS and requires the user to hit what they are aiming at. Pretty balanced all around.

A line platoon is composed primarily of Rifleman carrying Assault Rifles. They are generally supported by other weapons that fill specific roles. So pretty much what we have here in Dust 514. A bunch of Riflemen supported by a handful of Snipers, AV Gunners, Heavy Machine Gunners, Grenadiers and Designated Marksman. There should not be an over abundance of any of the latter roles.

What the game needs, is more variants of the Assault Rifle available as most FPS do. Right now we have two. Gallente Assault Rifle and Amarr Scrambler Rifle.

well, i might as well start speccing into Caldari assault. i already have my GEK. might as well get a dvoule...
stack on some damage mods and its go time.