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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1336
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, every other weapon in this game gets nerfed just as soon as the AR nerf brigade gets going.
OP or Not, the AR is ruining Dust. This weapon is so overused it's just stupid. The weapon, in pubs, accounts for as many kills as 11 of the 14 weapons combined. Combined.
Does that sound like balance or diversity? no, it isn't.
CCP - Are other weapons supposed to compete with the AR? They aren't.
It's about damn time that CCP approaches balance with, you know, usage balance in mind.
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Text Grant
Planetary Response Organization
50
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1339
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Text Grant wrote:People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle. Nobody uses the Scrambler rifle. ARs score 10 times as many kills as scrambler rifles.
The bottom line is this - It doesn't matter the reason, the AR spam is beyond bad. It is used to kill as much as 11 of the other 13 weapons combined. Yeah, that means 11 weapons are pretty useless. People pretty much only use them because they don't want to be AR spamming noobs. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
447
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Text Grant wrote:People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle. Here's the kill board from a skirmish map.
ARs-117 ScR-7
Seems nobody uses the ScR.
Facerape the AR with the balance bat in, 3, 2, ,1... |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1343
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Text Grant wrote:People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle. Here's the kill board from a skirmish map. ARs-117 ScR-7 Seems nobody uses the ScR. Facerape the AR with the balance bat in, 3, 2, ,1...
'Cept CCP can't do that it's AR 514 afterall.
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D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
480
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:So, every other weapon in this game gets nerfed just as soon as the AR nerf brigade gets going.
OP or Not, the AR is ruining Dust. This weapon is so overused it's just stupid. The weapon, in pubs, accounts for as many kills as 11 of the 14 weapons combined. Combined.
Does that sound like balance or diversity? no, it isn't.
CCP - Are other weapons supposed to compete with the AR? They aren't.
It's about damn time that CCP approaches balance with, you know, usage balance in mind.
pretty much. there are multiple approaches, but ultimately every gun has to have (A) an equal amount of advantages and disadvantage (2 and 2, or 3 and 3), or equal proportion (5 advanatages, 2 huge disadvantages), (B) have a purpose or role that is readily definable and (C) then finally be balanced against other competetors in the same range, and other ranges.
example. the shotgun (A) does massive damage in CQC, and can fire after reloading quickly, disadvantages, inaccuracy and spread, recoil, and range is restricted to CQC, has slightly higherCPU/PG cost than ARs. (B) the shotguns role is obvious CQC. when someone dies in CQC to a shotgun, most players dnt complain because thats its role. (C). the shotguns potential verse of the guns in its same area of operation ensures that it is not too far above other weapons of the same purspose. this part is tricky, but must acount for player skill as well
what are the A vs D of an AR? what is the purpose of an AR? what are the ARs advantages vs disadvantages compared to guns in CQC, midrange and long range?
look at the HMG as an example, its disadvantages out wiegh the advantages as other guns have comparable results with half the disadvantages. what is the prupose of the HMG? anti-infantry? thats a very general weapon term, and eve at that it has too many competetors, its not better at suppresion than anyother gun, and does comparable dps to light weapons. what are the competetors of the HMGs range? the HMG falls somewhere betwen mid and close range... since it has no definitive rnge of pwn, its out gunned by everything. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
447
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Text Grant wrote:People use the AR because it is familiar. Not OP. if it was op nobody would use the scrambler rifle. Here's the kill board from a skirmish map. ARs-117 ScR-7 Seems nobody uses the ScR. Facerape the AR with the balance bat in, 3, 2, ,1... 'Cept CCP can't do that it's AR 514 afterall. DAMN YOU CORPORATE! |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
301
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
lol let me show the power of my Proto SCR and ASCR |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1344
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:lol let me show the power of my Proto SCR and ASCR You'd do better with the AR.
Like I said, there are people that don't use the AR, but it's not because the AR isn't the best gun in the game.
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Ren Ratner
Infinite Raiders
23
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Of course the AR is popular. It's easy to use, reliable, and many players will choose to invest SP in it before considering a second weapon to skill into simply because of its simplicity and familiarity. You said it yourself, you're complaining about overuse and not imbalance. From my perspective, you're also wildly exaggerating.
Expecting every gun to be represented equally among the player base is pretty ridiculous. If I ran a poll of everyone's favorite ice cream, animal, cartoon show, book, superhero, whatever, not one of these would receive equal representation throughout. Why should random chance or even balanced weaponry somehow result in balanced diversity in weapon usage?
Less than half of my deaths have been the result of lone AR fire. Hell, if I'm going to escape from any fire fight, it will be vs an AR at mid range. I'm just as likely to be under fire from scrambler rifles and in my experience someone in my LOS is probably holding a mass driver or a flaylock. Snipers are abundant. Scouts usually have a shotgun, smg, and/or flaylock. Heavies are obviously likely to be carrying HMGs or forge guns. I don't see plasma cannons, maybe one a day and that guy's probably just trying it out. Don't see many lasers. I see them, but not many. |
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
824
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
be telling ccp about this for two years and get no change.........oh wait |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1347
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Posted - 2013.07.31 05:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ren Ratner wrote:Of course the AR is popular. It's easy to use, reliable, and many players will choose to invest SP in it before considering a second weapon to skill into simply because of its simplicity and familiarity. You said it yourself, you're complaining about overuse and not imbalance. From my perspective, you're also wildly exaggerating.
Expecting every gun to be represented equally among the player base is pretty ridiculous. If I ran a poll of everyone's favorite ice cream, animal, cartoon show, book, superhero, whatever, not one of these would receive equal representation throughout. Why should random chance or even balanced weaponry somehow result in balanced diversity in weapon usage?
Less than half of my deaths have been the result of lone AR fire. Hell, if I'm going to escape from any fire fight, it will be vs an AR at mid range. I'm just as likely to be under fire from scrambler rifles and in my experience someone in my LOS is probably holding a mass driver or a flaylock. Snipers are abundant. Scouts usually have a shotgun, smg, and/or flaylock. Heavies are obviously likely to be carrying HMGs or forge guns. I don't see plasma cannons, maybe one a day and that guy's probably just trying it out. Don't see many lasers. I see them, but not many.
Same kills as 11 of the 14 weapons combined. That's more than "more popular". |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
191
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Posted - 2013.07.31 06:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Can't they just subtly buff all the other weapons instead?
The blood and tears have soaked the Nerf Bat through and through. It is well past the time to lock it in a gun safe. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
359
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Posted - 2013.07.31 06:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Can't they just subtly buff all the other weapons instead?
The blood and tears have soaked the Nerf Bat through and through. It is well past the time to lock it in a gun safe. I believe they need rebalancing The standard, gek, and duvolle AR's ammo should be reduced to 48 rounds. (approx. 1728 damage in a magazine) 144 total reserve ammo (2 full magazines reserve + the currently loaded magazine)
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Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
24
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Posted - 2013.07.31 06:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Just leave the damn A.R.s alone; stop nerfing ****.
CCP needs to sorely BUFF the other weapons. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
257
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Posted - 2013.07.31 06:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
From yesterday my deaths like:
10 Sniper rifle 7 SR 5-6 TANK/blaster 5 LAV-bump 5 AR 4 OB 2 RAIL/Instalation 2 LASER 2 MD 1 HMG
NERF SNIPERS!!! TANKS! OB!! (joke) .... wait where are AR? No flylock ?
1. AR was nerfed enough. 2. Looking at all (yours list) I will be sugest nerf rocks... there are plenty of it... and I cant on it. |
Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
27
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Posted - 2013.07.31 08:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Terrain glitches... heh, nerf the rocks! |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
74
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think it would make more sense to buff other weapons rather than nerf the AR. The HMG in particular needs a slight buff. Less dispersion would be nice. |
Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
27
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yup but, that isn't gonna happen.... |
KaTaLy5t-87
Shadow Company HQ
79
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think you'll find so many AR kills because the AR is the most widely used weapon. Why is it widely used? Because that is what the AR is designed for, lots of people run assault and, strangely enough, the ASSAULT RIFLE is useful for assault players. Who would have thought it?
The AR is the mainstay of any army, real or in games. Do you see the World Powers banning the AR because too many people use it in battle? NO!
Dust is a FPS and like every other FPS game in History the AR or some variant of it is going to feature widely in it. If you die a lot from getting shot by ARs I would say become a sniper (you'll be out of range), become a tanker (ARs are useless against tanks), become a better player (so you can kill people before they kill you) or most preferably, go play Skyrim (they have no ARs and then we wouldn't have to listen to your crap) |
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Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
74
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shattered Mirage wrote:Yup but, that isn't gonna happen.... You never know. |
broonfondle majikthies
P.O.N.A.G.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
68
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Of course I use AR. It works at sensible ranges and comes in several verities. I pick what I like and although I don't mind the ScR its too gaudy and flash for my tastes (I refuse to use the weapon of our oppressors the Amarr!!, lol) when the racial weapons come in I will gladly use one of them, till then live with it |
Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
27
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
KaTaLy5t-87 wrote: (ARs are useless against tanks), become a better player (so you can kill people before they kill you)
Lies.... A.R.s are very effective against a tanker.
I have to agree with some people needing to be better players. Period.
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Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
27
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:Shattered Mirage wrote:Yup but, that isn't gonna happen.... You never know.
True.... |
KaTaLy5t-87
Shadow Company HQ
79
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shattered Mirage wrote:KaTaLy5t-87 wrote: (ARs are useless against tanks), become a better player (so you can kill people before they kill you)
Lies.... A.R.s are very effective against a tanker. I have to agree with some people needing to be better players. Period.
I fail to see how an AR is effective against a tank? I was referring to the tank itself as opposed to the squishy little dude inside who has no SP in infantry-based skills. The only time a good tanker should be out of their tank is when they spawn in at the start the match!
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Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
27
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
KaTaLy5t-87 wrote:Shattered Mirage wrote:KaTaLy5t-87 wrote: (ARs are useless against tanks), become a better player (so you can kill people before they kill you)
Lies.... A.R.s are very effective against a tanker. I have to agree with some people needing to be better players. Period. I fail to see how an AR is effective against a tank? I was referring to the tank itself as opposed to the squishy little dude inside who has no SP in infantry-based skills. The only time a good tanker should be out of their tank is when they spawn in at the start the match!
Heavies are referred to as tankers
Though, they're also called fat-asses... |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
201
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Posted - 2013.07.31 09:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:So, every other weapon in this game gets nerfed just as soon as the AR nerf brigade gets going.
OP or Not, the AR is ruining Dust. This weapon is so overused it's just stupid. The weapon, in pubs, accounts for as many kills as 11 of the 14 weapons combined. Combined.
Does that sound like balance or diversity? no, it isn't.
CCP - Are other weapons supposed to compete with the AR? They aren't.
It's about damn time that CCP approaches balance with, you know, usage balance in mind.
The ARs aren't OP they are just the baseline weapon in this game and every other FPS in the universe. After the TAC nerf you don't see any bull$hit kills like you did with the flaylock.
A rapid-fire weapon that throws small high speed projectiles is just the most practical and adaptable weapon on the battlefield. They are meant to be the go to choice when you are facing a broad range of situations where you need a weapon that is versatile. Decent but not exceptional range, good ammo capacity, ability to burst and spray, etc.
They aren't meant to be the master of all and the specialist weapons in Dust are often underpowered or fail to shine in their area of expertise. For example, the laser rifle is insufficiently good at long range to offset its lack of versatility. This however is not the fault of the AR, its just that those other weapons aren't developed enough.
The reason you see lots of AR kills is not because it is OP but because players have made the choice to go for familiarity and versatility at the cost of range/AE/whatever.
Even if every other weapon was significantly buffed people would still use the AR because it is versatile. |
Rich o
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
50
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Posted - 2013.07.31 10:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
i normally use shotguns, md, flays and my knives to mess around but when it comes down to make some isk i switch back to my gek...easy kills, the ar-nerfs didn't change much |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.07.31 10:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think there are two major "problems" with the ar.
1. It is in the starter fits so anybody gets free ones therefore anybody knows how to use them and skilling into them is a rather smart move if you want to use your free starter gear for a while.
2. Mimic weapons. The exsitence of these makes it praqctically unnecessary to skill into other weapons.
Solution to 1: bring in all racial variants and alter the starter fits with the racial assaultrifles
Solution to 2: get rid of the mimic weapons or move them into seperate skilltrees and gave every Assault rifle thier niche
Also I believe point one is the more important one... |
Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
28
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Posted - 2013.07.31 11:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:I think there are two major "problems" with the ar.
1. It is in the starter fits so anybody gets free ones therefore anybody knows how to use them and skilling into them is a rather smart move if you want to use your free starter gear for a while.
2. Mimic weapons. The exsitence of these makes it praqctically unnecessary to skill into other weapons.
Solution to 1: bring in all racial variants and alter the starter fits with the racial assaultrifles
Solution to 2: get rid of the mimic weapons or move them into seperate skilltrees and gave every Assault rifle thier niche
Also I believe point one is the more important one...
Sad thing about that is that it isn't gonna happen for a long while if ever.... |
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