Vehicles should be expensive and hard to kill.

Better vehicles should be more expensive and harder to kill.

my 1.3 million best DS can be one shot by a forge gun.
wtf ccp

Dusters, we have tried finding a middle ground with tanks but it just doesn't work. Right now, they are too expensive to specialize in and make money, but a very, very tiny pocket of the community still calls them in and rapes faces. Nobody is happy, this way. The infantry get stomped by a few special tankers and the other tankers are poor. We need to stop trying to make the middle ground work, and try going to the extremes.


My question is: what should the role of a tank in Dust be:

1) A win-button that is so prohibitively expensive SP (20 mil SP to reach god mode) and ISK wise (20 mil/tank) that they would only be seen in the biggest, most important battles, piloted by the most elite tankers against the most elite tankers, fighting for the richest corporations in New Eden.
a. these would be almost unkillable by anything short of a full squad of proto AV or another tank of the same calibre- im talking 18,000 HP, cannons that do ~4000 damage/second, and reppers that heal 1000 HP/s for thirty seconds, with the ability to have 70% resistance modules on for a minute straight...WITH ONE MODULE.
b. these would be the most expensive things anyone can buy short of a clone pack or an MCC. They would cost more than 2 cruisers in EVE. They would be so expensive that if one was brought into a pub and got destroyed by another tanker or a FULL squad of AV, that mercenary would have to play 80 games to earn it back.
c. there would be no room for specializing in anything else to use these tanks. They would take 20 million SP to use to their full potential, so there could realistically be less than 5 people in the game with these, anytime soon, as of now.


OR


2) Squishy, throwaways that are so cheap, that one can be lost every match and still have a profit made. Yes, it would mean tank spam. Loads of tank spam- but these tanks would be the tanks non-tankers have asked for, forever. Sure, they could still go 20:0, but no easier than someone with an AR could, and often do.
a. 10% squishier than they are right now, as theyre pretty squishy as is.
b. The price for a maddy with meta3-5 modules and a proto turret would be 500k
c. SP requirements would stay as is
d. their role in PC would likely be battering ram mode, as they still have enough power to scare people away, but not enough that they can handle 2 people with proto AV grenades in an elevated position.

you would be better off with option 2 if you had to go with either one of them.

One day the doors to eve isk will open I am sure, and you can bet there will be a lot of them "god mode" tanks in more than just super elite battles

I think tanks should fulfill a role that is much more akin to the combination of arms tactics we see today. Tanks aren't invincible, but are nigh-indestructible if you lack the proper tools (AV), and need infantry support in order to be used effectively, without which they can become easy targets in isolation.

However, their presence is a mobile bastion, and they can be used to reinforce a defense, or spearhead an assault, allowing for super heavy ordnance far in excess of what a soldier could bring, which could take down heavily defended points, and help infantry push an objective in what would have otherwise been a blood bath. In concentration, they can be an effective lighting assault force, able to command the wider open spaces, and deny the enemy mobility in the no-man area.

That said, they are still highly susceptible to AV, which is why it's even called AV. In the end AV will always counter tanks, and it's up to the infantry support of tanks to be the best defense against AV when a tank is attached to a unit. In combined arms tactics it's the tank that is added to a unit, not the unit that is added to the tank.

I think tanks should fulfill a role that is much more akin to the combination of arms tactics we see today. Tanks aren't invincible, but are nigh-indestructible if you lack the proper tools (AV), and need infantry support in order to be used effectively, without which they can become easy targets in isolation.

However, their presence is a mobile bastion, and they can be used to reinforce a defense, or spearhead an assault, allowing for super heavy ordnance far in excess of what a soldier could bring, which could take down heavily defended points, and help infantry push an objective in what would have otherwise been a blood bath. In concentration, they can be an effective lighting assault force, able to command the wider open spaces, and deny the enemy mobility in the no-man area.

That said, they are still highly susceptible to AV, which is why it's even called AV. In the end AV will always counter tanks, and it's up to the infantry support of tanks to be the best defense against AV when a tank is attached to a unit. In combined arms tactics it's the tank that is added to a unit, not the unit that is added to the tank.

And apparently there are ways to avoid this super squishy tank syndrome, because on numerous times I have ran into a tank that would be considered god mode.. 4 guys and me were throwing AV nades at one earlier on a domination map when he came rolling right up to the objective.. we got him to only half armor and we were dead from his large blaster.. **** was beast, he rolled right on out of there after that to probably cool down mods.. but fk it was beast

I was using packed AV , not sure what the other guys were throwing.

neither choice is good, the infantry want tanks to be 1 shot one kill by their assault riffles and will refuse to accept anything less than that. and the actual tankers want to be hard to kill (which the true tankers are extremely hard to kill if they are facing infantry).

this will never be solved the way the game is right now

You found one of a very small number of tankers who make it work. Compare that number to the number of AR users who make it work. Then consider the possibility that he probably didnt last 6 rounds with one tank, because that is damn near impossible. On a good day, I'll break even and not to toot my own horn, but im pretty good at what I do.

I'm also willing to bet it was a gunlogi with 1 surge and 2 wards on with shield restiance skill maxed out. No armor tank could survive 4 people throwing packed AV grenades at him.

This.

Tanks are godmode. /thread

You found one of a very small number of tankers who make it work. Compare that number to the number of AR users who make it work. Then consider the possibility that he probably didnt last 6 rounds with one tank, because that is damn near impossible. On a good day, I'll break even and not to toot my own horn, but im pretty good at what I do.

I'm also willing to bet it was a gunlogi with 1 surge and 2 wards on with shield restiance skill maxed out. No armor tank could survive 4 people throwing packed AV grenades at him.

your willing to bet me against what my own eyes saw? Does armor bar go up top now and shield on bottom? I must have missed that change memo

iv done it several times, but I killed each of them before they got a chance to throw the 3rd wave of grenades, its NOT the vehicle or items that are op, its the personal skills of the driver himself that makes the items look op

You're telling me that 18,000 damage in 3 seconds from 3 av grenades per player from 4 players didn't kill an armor tank? Any resistance modules are cancelled out due to explosive effectiveness vs armor, so the EHP vs AV grenades comes out to around 6700 HP for most tanks (not counting the 1000 pts of shield). You were doing something wrong because the reppers pulse once every 5 seconds, so you could still get him between pulses from full health and kill him.

But how much is too much? I propose something extreme so we have something to work down from. Should they be brought back to Chromosome stats or buffed beyond that with a price increase?

Tanks are God mode against people that have little to no AV capability. It really isn't our fault if people decide to only use the free AV suit to try to take out our tanks. Have you been in a Madrugar when a PRO swarm volley hits? If not, you have no idea how your mind starts to race when you see at least a third of your armor melt away from one volley.

If you don't have ADV swarms and/or AV grenades, and can't be bothered to put the SP into CBR7 and EX-0 grenades, then yes, you should be destroyed by all decent pilots, and so should everyone else that cannot bother to invest what's basically a pittance into ADV level AV.

I guess so , that's exactly what I'm telling you. Don't get mad at me bro because you can't do it

Make them high jackable but insured. Also make rockets do waaaaaaaay more damage. Maybe tank special weapons. Battles are realistic but everyone who shows up with ar's hates life.

I guess so , that's exactly what I'm telling you. Don't get mad at me bro because you can't do it

It's literally impossible, I've used by EVE-Spreadsheet-FU and there is no way any tank post-Marauder-Era can ever take that sort of damage and still have half armor left. Some of those grenades missed, or were not AV.

We're getting away from the point and this is just becoming a tanks are OP or not OP thread. we need to decide if they should be win buttons or throw aways.

Now, how powerful should a tank be and how much should it cost?

Yeh it's a possibility one of the guys didn't have AV nade and just tossed locus, possibly flux ( didn't see the emp field) All I'm saying though is, this guy went up against AV and laughed at it, flicked us away and went about his day. Yet so many people complain 1 guy can run up to tanks and kill them with standard stuff. They apparently are doing it wrong, it's not the rest of oursfault

tanks are NOT OP.

ex: if the most advanced and powerful tanks in the game were to be created, im talking actual "God Mode" tank fitted with the absolutely best modules and turrets were to get into the hand of a completely new player that knew nothing of how to drive tanks, that player would get that "God Mode" tank destroyed almost instantly since he doesn't know how to activate the modules or doesn't understand that when your getting hit, you need to get the hell out of there and heal, thus causing the "God" tank to be destroyed.

ex-2: if the most under fitted tank in the game were to be deployed in battle, then a very high experience tank driver will be able to make it survive the entire match and possibly make a good kill count out of it BECAUSE HE IS SECIALIZED IN DRIVING TANKS AND KNOWS HOW TO WORK THEM.

its not the item that is OP, it is the player themselves that make it look that way because they are the experts in that specific field.

this is coming from a pure tank driver that knows nearly everything about tank driving in this game and has MONTHS of experience driving them, so yeah I know exactly what im talking about.

Tanks should be neither.

1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.

2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around.

This happened many times in Chromosome. I would pull a sagaris with full proto everything and go 35:0 on manus peak. I call in another one on the same map but a blueberry TKs me and jacks it- dead in 3 minutes vs a soma 80gj blaster. On the flip side, blueberry calls in a sica and it blows up 1 minute after contact. I pull same sica, but because i maxed out tank skills, I manage to kill a maddy and a couple gunlogis before one of the buddies sneaks up behind be and drops my shields to zero in 4 seconds.

The greatest tanks in the game would be no better than militia tanks if the pilot was not experienced. It does not make him OP, or the AR is OP because some of the best players in the game us the AR.

Tanks should be neither.

1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.

2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around.

dropships....... the easiest vehicle to kill and the only one that doesn't survive regardless of skilled pilots or inexperienced ones.... truly the saddest vehicle in the game

I don't like either choice, to be honest, as you offer extremes.


I would like current prices with the old Marauders, that would be perfect.

I don't like extrems as well, but as I see that tanks are easy to kill right now. A tank should be a tank, expensiv, hard to skill and not all that easy to kill. maybe offering more gamage on the small guns could help.
I'm a logi and I can drive tank, this is perfect, this way I alway see both sides.
In conclusion I skilled the crap out of AV granates and I'm scared as hell to drive in my tank, becouse I know how EASY it is to kill one with it, and I'm not even talking about forgeguns here.

Honestly, HAVs do enough damage as-is, just the Large Missile Turrets and Small Railguns need some looking at due to bizzare performance... Especially Large Missile Turrets and more specifically the Cycled.

The HP in my opinion in fine for the militia, and even the standard tanks are okay, I'd like to see an advanced tank with 50% more EHP capabilities then we see now with a HAV level 3 prerequsite, buff the enforcers damage capabilities and increase to a X4 prereq and then bring back the marauders with a X5 HAV prerequisite and give them 200% the HP we have now.

In my honest opinion, even a 50% EHP boost would be massive (at least for my tank) as that would lengthen tank fights by a nice amount, and make AV work harder to kill a tank without making it impossible. anything approaching a 100% EHP boost or more would make HAVs near impossible to kill with any driver with half a brain.

A little goes a long way, we want (well, I want) the high-end tanks to be tougher without making it where careless drivers are fine.

I skilled into assaulting the 1st week of uprising and figured out 1st hand how easy it is to kill tanks, then I requested a skill resec and im back where I belong

Honestly, HAVs do enough damage as-is, just the Large Missile Turrets and Small Railguns need some looking at due to bizzare performance... Especially Large Missile Turrets and more specifically the Cycled.

The HP in my opinion in fine for the militia, and even the standard tanks are okay, I'd like to see an advanced tank with 50% more EHP capabilities then we see now with a HAV level 3 prerequsite, buff the enforcers damage capabilities and increase to a X4 prereq and then bring back the marauders with a X5 HAV prerequisite and give them 200% the HP we have now.

In my honest opinion, even a 50% EHP boost would be massive (at least for my tank) as that would lengthen tank fights by a nice amount, and make AV work harder to kill a tank without making it impossible. anything approaching a 100% EHP boost or more would make HAVs near impossible to kill with any driver with half a brain.

A little goes a long way, we want (well, I want) the high-end tanks to be tougher without making it where careless drivers are fine.

1- wrong about the ptw thing because, well basically look at my post where the 1st thing I said was "tanks are NOT op" and youl see.

2- that's exactly what infantry wants, they want this to be another COD or BF.

Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before:

a) Tank kills me
b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back
c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry.
d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out
e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank


Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least.

In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover.

Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before:

a) Tank kills me
b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back
c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry.
d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out
e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank


Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least.

In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover.

Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before:

a) Tank kills me
b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back
c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry.
d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out
e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank


Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least.

In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover.

So you want to able to do everything? I think the game you want to be playing is called Battlefield.

...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA are you serious, that's your argument? "tankers don't realize that running av means that player is really only effective against vehicles"? no **** Sherlock that's why its called "AV" (ANTI VEHICLE), and yes we understand what you go through, I personally do because I was an av for a week, but still dude, your argument has absolutely 0 points giving to your side of the argument.

tanks are MEANT to be killing machines that are NOT paper thin like you want, I they were then they wouldn't be used... EVER. tanks are meant to dominate the battle field with and without team support (team support pretty much makes the tank unkillable).

and as I stated before, they are in no way op. how would you react if you went 20-5 in a match with whatever your specialized in and your enemies you killed claimed your weapon is "OP" and wanted it nerfed?

Exactly, tanks are p2w noobery. Nuff said.

You just proved yourself wrong, appreciate it, saved me the time

Dusters, we have tried finding a middle ground with tanks but it just doesn't work. Right now, they are too expensive to specialize in and make money, but a very, very tiny pocket of the community still calls them in and rapes faces. Nobody is happy, this way. The infantry get stomped by a few special tankers and the other tankers are poor. We need to stop trying to make the middle ground work, and try going to the extremes.


My question is: what should the role of a tank in Dust be:

1) A win-button that is so prohibitively expensive SP (20 mil SP to reach god mode) and ISK wise (20 mil/tank) that they would only be seen in the biggest, most important battles, piloted by the most elite tankers against the most elite tankers,

OR


2) Squishy, throwaways that are so cheap, that one can be lost every match and still have a profit made.

1) A win-button that is so prohibitively expensive SP (20 mil SP to reach god mode) and ISK wise (20 mil/tank) that they would only be seen in the biggest, most important battles, piloted by the most elite tankers against the most elite tankers, fighting for the richest corporations in New Eden.
a. these would be almost unkillable by anything short of a full squad of proto AV or another tank of the same calibre- im talking 18,000 HP, cannons that do ~4000 damage/second, and reppers that heal 1000 HP/s for thirty seconds, with the ability to have 70% resistance modules on for a minute straight...WITH ONE MODULE.
b. these would be the most expensive things anyone can buy short of a clone pack or an MCC. They would cost more than 2 cruisers in EVE. They would be so expensive that if one was brought into a pub and got destroyed by another tanker or a FULL squad of AV, that mercenary would have to play 80 games to earn it back.
c. there would be no room for specializing in anything else to use these tanks. They would take 20 million SP to use to their full potential, so there could realistically be less than 5 people in the game with these, anytime soon, as of now.

nothing in the game should be safe except the free starter fits. the bigger the **** you want to pull out, the more it should cost you match after match. proto should just give you an edge when all that matters is winning. you should not be using it to stomp for profit. PRO suits can be popped by STD guns, and PRO tanks should not be immune to STD AV. stop trying to make HAVs safe and affordable.

I specced into my STD HAVs the way you specced into your STD AR. What makes your AR so special and my HAV so pathetic that it is a practical impossibility (except for a rare, exceptional few) to run a profit running it?

Why is it that your SP is so much more valuable than mine that just because you specced into something means you should be able to run it profitably and mine, which is far more SP intensive to make remotelyeffective, should not?

nothing in the game should be safe except the free starter fits. the bigger the **** you want to pull out, the more it should cost you match after match. proto should just give you an edge when all that matters is winning. you should not be using it to stomp for profit. PRO suits can be popped by STD guns, and PRO tanks should not be immune to STD AV. stop trying to make HAVs safe and affordable.

Ye but how many milita does it take to kill proto?

Like its around 3 std AV to kill basic vehicle

So proto vehicle would take 3 proto AV

it takes about 2 good STD AV to kill a good STD HAV. i think that's about right. ADV AV is about 20-25% more powerful so ADV HAV should be about 20-25%% stronger. and then PRO should be another 20-25% on top. so PRO should be about 50% stronger, which means it should take about 2 PRO AV, 2.5 ADV AV, or 3 STD AV to kill.

this idea that "my PRO tank requires PRO AV to kill" is so wrong. PRO doesn't mean you get to ignore all those gross unwashed STD players. it should be mainly about tactics, not about how much free time you had in the last 6 months. you let 3 dudes sneak up on your solo tank with no support, you should die... regardless of who has how much sp or isk.

I don't like either choice, to be honest, as you offer extremes.


I would like current prices with the old Marauders, that would be perfect.

Nope

3 proto AV to kill proto HAV

Im not going to let 3 std AV kill a proto HAV what would be the point of that? 1 proto AV could still solo that proto HAV so it wouldnt be an upgrade

Just stick to running infantry

one for forge guns being charged up

I agree.

The issue here is that everyone wants to try and balance them around Instant Battles. It seems that even CCP have been trying to do that.

You can't balance assets around "pub" matches. Improvements to matchmaking should help keep a level playing field in those matches, in which case we can hopefully get some balance decisions made around well organized groups going against each other, as they do in PC.

The only real problem I see with tanks as they are is due to the nature of pub matches. People always say "you need dedicated AV", or "the reason you can't deal with this or that vehicle is because you nubs don't switch to AV" bla bla bla. The problem is not that one person goes dedicated AV, it is that without dedicated AV players on a team tanks (or for that matter some murder taxis) often require coordinated strikes from a team. Eg. 2 or 3 people switch to AV and the others protect them. This kind of coordination is virtually impossible in most pub matches.

I don't want this to be COD either and I think that people should join corps, and squads etc. But the way tanks work at the moment any team that doesn't have some amazing AV player or a good squad with decent AV will just be completely blown away by one tank. Honestly all it would take to fix that problem is either to have vehicle free game modes, or just more areas of the maps that can't be accessed via vehicles.

Dust shouldn't be COD, but it isn't World of Tanks either. The majority of every team should be infantry, so tanks, dropships and LAVs should be the exception, not the rule. The vehicles need to be important, and something of a force multiplier, just as logistics should be (instead of the preeminent weapon on the battlefield...I'm looking at you Caldari Logi).

the point is PRO is not a comfy blanket of safety where you grind for 12 months and then you no longer have to worry about danger. welcome to 2013, we don't balance by grinding anymore. you can have 5 billion sp, your tank should still be killable.

if you don't want to be killed by 3 skilled std av, instead of whining about how much elite SP you have, just use a little skill and effort and don't sit still in one spot while 3 dudes set up nanohives all around you.

I don't like either choice, to be honest, as you offer extremes.

Yes it is

If i bring out proto tank and the pub match enemies all have milita AV then i will be king, it will take the entire team to kill it or if i screw up

Well then... good luck with your game where you're invincible and people log on errday for the honor of getting beat up by you, our king. Sounds like if someone ever makes a game like that it will be superfun.

Thanks

I was king back in the early days with proto dropsuits and ARs but no complained because AR514

oh, are you saying you could not be killed with std weapons in your pro suit? which game was this?

Tanks are God mode against people that have little to no AV capability. It really isn't our fault if people decide to only use the free AV suit to try to take out our tanks. Have you been in a Madrugar when a PRO swarm volley hits? If not, you have no idea how your mind starts to race when you see at least a third of your armor melt away from one volley.

If you don't have ADV swarms and/or AV grenades, and can't be bothered to put the SP into CBR7 and EX-0 grenades, then yes, you should be destroyed by all decent pilots, and so should everyone else that cannot bother to invest what's basically a pittance into ADV level AV.

He specializes in extremes. That is his nature.

Neither are correct.

Current Tank equation:

Make some cash playing Ambush, drop Tanks when conditions are good, lose a few now and then.
Learn to drive better, get more SP, get better gear.
Rinse and repeat.

Not that different than any other role in DUST.

Dust and its forums are filled with those like the OP that wants the game to change so They are happy. Given his two extreme viewpoints nothing will make OP happy anyway. Just ignore it.

Yea pretty much

Could take on a bunch of ppl, you had to be in proto to get me down

Yea pretty much

Could take on a bunch of ppl, you had to be in proto to get me down

LOL... you're so distracted by an uncontrollable compulsion to brag about how elite you are, you don't realize you just proved my point.

if you have any skill, you have nothing to worry about. you don't need to use sp as a crutch. we crush bad players with our exiles all day. PRO doesn't change anything.

LOL... you're so distracted by an uncontrollable compulsion to brag about how elite you are, you don't realize you just proved my point.

if you have any skill, you have nothing to worry about. you don't need to use sp as a crutch. we crush bad players with our exiles all day. PRO doesn't change anything.

If we get advanced/proto that would stop and all these solo proto AV would be screwed

I'm not sure why we are arguing about, because i agree.

I created an alt a few days ago and decided to spec into Gallente HAVs. I transfer 5 million isk from my main to get started.

At first I thought tanking was a piece of cake (I was farming kills at the academy), then reality set in after I got int a real match where people could actually kill me. I didn't have a problem with being blown up because I am new at it . I had a problem with not being about to turn a profit. The price of tanks is super high. I now see why tankers complain about being blown up. If you get blown up 2 times, that's a 1 million Isk loss. People earn about 240,000 per game which means you need to play 4 games to make it up.

I never new how much I was costing tankers when I blew up their tanks. This experience has made me feel sorry for tankers.

I absolutely don't support nerfing AV (I'm a forge gunner), but CCP should lower the price of vehicles. This would help both AV players and tankers.

AV players will have more targets to take out, and tankers will be able to turn a profit.

My fit for anyone interested was:

80GJ Compressed Blaster
20GJ Scattered Blaster x2
Militia Active Heat Sink
Militia Powergrid Expansion Unit x3
Heavy IG-L Polarized Armor Regenerator
180mm Reinforced Steel Plates.

Some tips on how best to fit my tank would be appreciated.

Speaking with CORP and randoms, most of them feel that if a tank can solo a crowd, then a solo can take it out.

I personally disagree but... if that is what the majority wants, give them these glass tanks, remove the high skill required to use them and give me my SP back. No one wants to switch to an AV class, and those that have the AV, are too darn good at it. So... make it that MLT can destroy every thing, and i want to spec out of this. Maybe I'll get my proto scout and be extra LULz

I don't like either choice, to be honest, as you offer extremes.


I would like current prices with the old Marauders, that would be perfect.

Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or these other F2P games coming this year.........

Planetside 2 (19 GOTY Awards)

Coming to PS4 this year...

To begin, I am not a tanker, nor have I ever been. Why were tanks even nerfed for uprising? They were fine in Chromosome. Tanks were extremely powerful in the build after the E3 (Precursor maybe?) but after that they seemed to be very balanced, the only time that they were "indestructible" to infantry was while they were red line rail sniping, and nothing has changed there. The changes only really effect the tanks that were playing their roles as intended (on the ground, raising hell).

One of my favorite things in this game used to be epic battles against tanks, and it makes me sad inside that these don't happen anymore. Tanks are squishy, anyone who says otherwise is wrong. I think that tanks need to be restored to what they were before uprising. Sure, some tanks could go 30-50/0 in a pub match, but this wasn't the case for every tanker. These were tankers who were very good at what they did, and had infantry support or, as I rarely witnessed, they were spider tanking. The best infantry players in the game do this still, I see it almost everyday. Aspects of this game should not be nerfed based on the fact that some people know what they are doing with them. Most tanks that I saw in Chromosome still got their mud pushed in shortly after being called in.
Tanks in Chromosome did not incite the majority of the player base to spec heavily into AV as LAVs have done in Uprising. Does anyone else see something wrong here?

What was the point in buffing LAVs, there was nothing wrong with them before. So what your free LAV got OHK by a packed AV grenade, you should not have been trying to play this game by mowing people down in a militia vehicle, they are for cheap transport. A good saga in Chromosome good take grenades and forge gun rounds and survive to get you where you were going. The only thing was that if you called one out in that build you had to either take a loss on it, or stay with the thing until the end of the game. So most people didn't bother wasting the isk (mine cost 100k+) so more often than not all I saw (or drove) were the death trap starter LAVs, but now we can recall those expensive vehicles that are only needed momentarily. I think that LAVs need to be returned to where they were before uprising. LLAVs were very powerful in Chromosome also, they were just much more SP intensive and so they were rarely seen. If built properly they could tank 3 proto FG shots then, now I most LLAVs can take 4 direct hits with a proto FG and drive off into the sunset to heal up for round 2, most tanks wont even take 4 shots as they are now. This is completely backwards.

In my opinion ground vehicles should be returned to what they were in Chromosome, when it was much more balanced. It was a poor choice if the reason Vehicles were "balanced" in uprising was for the things to come (racial variants, proto tanks, and so forth) if we don't even have them. Who knows I could be wrong, maybe I missed something super OP about tanks in the previous build, but I doubt it. I want there to be tanks about that can make it on the field long enough to turn a LLAVs sunny day gray. I want to stop hoping for every map to be CQC, so I don't have to run forge the entire match so that my team won't get completely decimated by f***ing cars. Whats wrong with that? I am not a developer and do not know how any of this crap works beyond what I experience myself, but that is my opinion of what could be done.

TL;DR
was better before, cud be agin

So how come when an exile goes 25:0 it's skill, but when a tanker does it, he's OP?

first of all, the majority of the targets out there are ARs, so if one of them gets 25/0 with an exile, he's either skilled or extremely lucky. it's not like he blew up 25 tanks.

secondly, i didn't say tanks are op. imho they are either a little UP or possibly just plain old P. but i don't think we will know until PRO tanks are released. right now STD tanks are falling to ADV and PRO AV and it's distorting everyone's perceptions of the tank balance.

priority 1: release PRO marauders, then reevaluate.

Exactly, tanks are p2w noobery. Nuff said.

You just proved yourself wrong, appreciate it, saved me the time

Lol, a Helstorm player says tanks are noobery. Spam more grenades and then say that.

I'd rather they fix tanks...:/

People already showed their "concern" that they don't want them stronger NOR cheaper.

Us drivers ( which I've given up on), it is too expensive, too much of an SP sink, and too fragile. Half the time the indicator lies at where I'm being hit. I have to PHYSICALLY see the shot to have a valid indicator.

Tanks are a war machine. If we ever get these promise gargantuan maps, still worthless because of invisible shots. AV does it's job, and does it well. Our only counter is our ability to drive and our team. Sadly, the latter is out of our control.

Off topic ish, but it feels shields survives infantry longer then armor. But armor survives the fight VS shields.

On topic. Either AV needs pulled back, tanks need to be cheaper, or made ungodly sinks in both sides, and make them giant war machines. With them in the middle only makes AV happy, while most tanks sit in the red line because they cant compete with it.

How many times have you been in a tank, and was getting forged from the sky, and you cant aim up. So running as fast as you can away from said forge, only to get popped while trying to hide.

So, cheap with little SP sink and made of glass, or we get some god like war machine but costs so damn much that most would be afraid of loosing it that only the most important battles, they would be seen.

D. ALL of the above!!!

Tanks should be a cheap throw away win button!!!

Seriously "Tank War Dust 514" would be way more fun then "flaylock war dust 514"

The splash would likely take out the driver if the driver was not careful or not wearing a fatsuit.

As a bit of a tangent, that's my problem with the LLAVs, if you use them for their intended roles they (the drivers) are sitting ducks.

SOONGäó