Vehicles should be expensive and hard to kill.

Better vehicles should be more expensive and harder to kill.

my 1.3 million best DS can be one shot by a forge gun.
wtf ccp

Dusters, we have tried finding a middle ground with tanks but it just doesn't work. Right now, they are too expensive to specialize in and make money, but a very, very tiny pocket of the community still calls them in and rapes faces. Nobody is happy, this way. The infantry get stomped by a few special tankers and the other tankers are poor. We need to stop trying to make the middle ground work, and try going to the extremes.


My question is: what should the role of a tank in Dust be:

1) A win-button that is so prohibitively expensive SP (20 mil SP to reach god mode) and ISK wise (20 mil/tank) that they would only be seen in the biggest, most important battles, piloted by the most elite tankers against the most elite tankers, fighting for the richest corporations in New Eden.
a. these would be almost unkillable by anything short of a full squad of proto AV or another tank of the same calibre- im talking 18,000 HP, cannons that do ~4000 damage/second, and reppers that heal 1000 HP/s for thirty seconds, with the ability to have 70% resistance modules on for a minute straight...WITH ONE MODULE.
b. these would be the most expensive things anyone can buy short of a clone pack or an MCC. They would cost more than 2 cruisers in EVE. They would be so expensive that if one was brought into a pub and got destroyed by another tanker or a FULL squad of AV, that mercenary would have to play 80 games to earn it back.
c. there would be no room for specializing in anything else to use these tanks. They would take 20 million SP to use to their full potential, so there could realistically be less than 5 people in the game with these, anytime soon, as of now.


OR


2) Squishy, throwaways that are so cheap, that one can be lost every match and still have a profit made. Yes, it would mean tank spam. Loads of tank spam- but these tanks would be the tanks non-tankers have asked for, forever. Sure, they could still go 20:0, but no easier than someone with an AR could, and often do.
a. 10% squishier than they are right now, as theyre pretty squishy as is.
b. The price for a maddy with meta3-5 modules and a proto turret would be 500k
c. SP requirements would stay as is
d. their role in PC would likely be battering ram mode, as they still have enough power to scare people away, but not enough that they can handle 2 people with proto AV grenades in an elevated position.

you would be better off with option 2 if you had to go with either one of them.

One day the doors to eve isk will open I am sure, and you can bet there will be a lot of them "god mode" tanks in more than just super elite battles

I think tanks should fulfill a role that is much more akin to the combination of arms tactics we see today. Tanks aren't invincible, but are nigh-indestructible if you lack the proper tools (AV), and need infantry support in order to be used effectively, without which they can become easy targets in isolation.

However, their presence is a mobile bastion, and they can be used to reinforce a defense, or spearhead an assault, allowing for super heavy ordnance far in excess of what a soldier could bring, which could take down heavily defended points, and help infantry push an objective in what would have otherwise been a blood bath. In concentration, they can be an effective lighting assault force, able to command the wider open spaces, and deny the enemy mobility in the no-man area.

That said, they are still highly susceptible to AV, which is why it's even called AV. In the end AV will always counter tanks, and it's up to the infantry support of tanks to be the best defense against AV when a tank is attached to a unit. In combined arms tactics it's the tank that is added to a unit, not the unit that is added to the tank.

I think tanks should fulfill a role that is much more akin to the combination of arms tactics we see today. Tanks aren't invincible, but are nigh-indestructible if you lack the proper tools (AV), and need infantry support in order to be used effectively, without which they can become easy targets in isolation.

However, their presence is a mobile bastion, and they can be used to reinforce a defense, or spearhead an assault, allowing for super heavy ordnance far in excess of what a soldier could bring, which could take down heavily defended points, and help infantry push an objective in what would have otherwise been a blood bath. In concentration, they can be an effective lighting assault force, able to command the wider open spaces, and deny the enemy mobility in the no-man area.

That said, they are still highly susceptible to AV, which is why it's even called AV. In the end AV will always counter tanks, and it's up to the infantry support of tanks to be the best defense against AV when a tank is attached to a unit. In combined arms tactics it's the tank that is added to a unit, not the unit that is added to the tank.

And apparently there are ways to avoid this super squishy tank syndrome, because on numerous times I have ran into a tank that would be considered god mode.. 4 guys and me were throwing AV nades at one earlier on a domination map when he came rolling right up to the objective.. we got him to only half armor and we were dead from his large blaster.. **** was beast, he rolled right on out of there after that to probably cool down mods.. but fk it was beast

I was using packed AV , not sure what the other guys were throwing.

neither choice is good, the infantry want tanks to be 1 shot one kill by their assault riffles and will refuse to accept anything less than that. and the actual tankers want to be hard to kill (which the true tankers are extremely hard to kill if they are facing infantry).

this will never be solved the way the game is right now

You found one of a very small number of tankers who make it work. Compare that number to the number of AR users who make it work. Then consider the possibility that he probably didnt last 6 rounds with one tank, because that is damn near impossible. On a good day, I'll break even and not to toot my own horn, but im pretty good at what I do.

I'm also willing to bet it was a gunlogi with 1 surge and 2 wards on with shield restiance skill maxed out. No armor tank could survive 4 people throwing packed AV grenades at him.

This.

Tanks are godmode. /thread

You found one of a very small number of tankers who make it work. Compare that number to the number of AR users who make it work. Then consider the possibility that he probably didnt last 6 rounds with one tank, because that is damn near impossible. On a good day, I'll break even and not to toot my own horn, but im pretty good at what I do.

I'm also willing to bet it was a gunlogi with 1 surge and 2 wards on with shield restiance skill maxed out. No armor tank could survive 4 people throwing packed AV grenades at him.

your willing to bet me against what my own eyes saw? Does armor bar go up top now and shield on bottom? I must have missed that change memo

iv done it several times, but I killed each of them before they got a chance to throw the 3rd wave of grenades, its NOT the vehicle or items that are op, its the personal skills of the driver himself that makes the items look op

You're telling me that 18,000 damage in 3 seconds from 3 av grenades per player from 4 players didn't kill an armor tank? Any resistance modules are cancelled out due to explosive effectiveness vs armor, so the EHP vs AV grenades comes out to around 6700 HP for most tanks (not counting the 1000 pts of shield). You were doing something wrong because the reppers pulse once every 5 seconds, so you could still get him between pulses from full health and kill him.

But how much is too much? I propose something extreme so we have something to work down from. Should they be brought back to Chromosome stats or buffed beyond that with a price increase?

Tanks are God mode against people that have little to no AV capability. It really isn't our fault if people decide to only use the free AV suit to try to take out our tanks. Have you been in a Madrugar when a PRO swarm volley hits? If not, you have no idea how your mind starts to race when you see at least a third of your armor melt away from one volley.

If you don't have ADV swarms and/or AV grenades, and can't be bothered to put the SP into CBR7 and EX-0 grenades, then yes, you should be destroyed by all decent pilots, and so should everyone else that cannot bother to invest what's basically a pittance into ADV level AV.

I guess so , that's exactly what I'm telling you. Don't get mad at me bro because you can't do it

Make them high jackable but insured. Also make rockets do waaaaaaaay more damage. Maybe tank special weapons. Battles are realistic but everyone who shows up with ar's hates life.