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Soldier of Mawat
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
89
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 05:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Why not have both options? Militia HAVs could be option #2, cheap tanks that can get the job done if the tanker is careful but cheap and running them is fairly cost effective. I would say that the current amount of armor/shields of militia tanks are about where they should be. Can't say anything about the cost effectiveness of militia tanks though, I blow them up not drive them. Proto tanks on the other hand should be the incredible mobile god of the battle field requiring 3-5 people working together to take down. Cost could be in the 6 to 10 mill range... not sure about cost though, again I just blow them up. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
689
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I guess so , that's exactly what I'm telling you. Don't get mad at me bro because you can't do it
An HAV will not, nor ever have, that kind of EHP.
Each packed AV grenade will do about 1700 damage (rounding down), let's generously say somehow the Madrugar's shields fully absorbed the first grenade (when normally only would soak two-thirds of it), that leaves 11 grenades left out of the twelve, that is 18700 damage, counting explosive damage modifiers that is now 23375 damage, now you are saying that he was at half health...
So according to you, there is a Madrugar with over 46750 armor EHP. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
611
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I guess so , that's exactly what I'm telling you. Don't get mad at me bro because you can't do it
It's literally impossible, I've used by EVE-Spreadsheet-FU and there is no way any tank post-Marauder-Era can ever take that sort of damage and still have half armor left. Some of those grenades missed, or were not AV.
Yeh it's a possibility one of the guys didn't have AV nade and just tossed locus, possibly flux ( didn't see the emp field) All I'm saying though is, this guy went up against AV and laughed at it, flicked us away and went about his day. Yet so many people complain 1 guy can run up to tanks and kill them with standard stuff. They apparently are doing it wrong, it's not the rest of oursfault |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
478
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:We're getting away from the point and this is just becoming a tanks are OP or not OP thread. we need to decide if they should be win buttons or throw aways.
Now, how powerful should a tank be and how much should it cost?
tanks are NOT OP.
ex: if the most advanced and powerful tanks in the game were to be created, im talking actual "God Mode" tank fitted with the absolutely best modules and turrets were to get into the hand of a completely new player that knew nothing of how to drive tanks, that player would get that "God Mode" tank destroyed almost instantly since he doesn't know how to activate the modules or doesn't understand that when your getting hit, you need to get the hell out of there and heal, thus causing the "God" tank to be destroyed.
ex-2: if the most under fitted tank in the game were to be deployed in battle, then a very high experience tank driver will be able to make it survive the entire match and possibly make a good kill count out of it BECAUSE HE IS SECIALIZED IN DRIVING TANKS AND KNOWS HOW TO WORK THEM.
its not the item that is OP, it is the player themselves that make it look that way because they are the experts in that specific field. |
Nguruthos IX
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
866
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
Basically I rather like the idea of there being behemoths like a Titan. Sure one small thing can hypothetically kill it, but it takes for bloody ever and so in reality you either need a couple good counters or some equally large scary thing.
If Dust was only dropsuits there's nothing to set the gameplay apart from every other FPS (which most do the FPS part better)
So dust should aim to excel at what they can do better. Vehicles, modules, unique abilities and roles for suits and ships and setups. The sense of accomplishment that can come from killing a vehicle because it was Hard to kill, took Teamwork, and cost the enemy a LOT of isk. Perhaps earned you some cash?
That's much more exciting to me than derping around shooting ground derps all day. Land lubbers.
If you haven't tried it yet, hop in a drop-ship with some gunners and go head to head with a few other dropships in the air. It's all team work, both people are riding expensive vehicles, whether they're they pilot or not. Now even passengers (gunners) are responsible for both saving their teammates investment, and destroying the enemies.
This one mini-battle between 2 vehicles / 6 players could cost in one minute more ISK than what everyone else will lose on field below, combined. Especially if both die somehow lol.
Well, its fun till some wise guy forge gun blows a hole in your backside out of nowhere. Or a red lined rail tank which isn't even rendered on the screen does half of your heath out of nowhere from 600 meters. But.. I digress.
Point is vehicles should be lauded and expanded upon in dust, not minimized, bastardized and broken to the point of uselessness. It creates a variety of new game play methods and ways to experience battle. Lets elevate things from CoD. Lets get some more vehicles in dust asap |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
426
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I guess so , that's exactly what I'm telling you. Don't get mad at me bro because you can't do it
It's literally impossible, I've used by EVE-Spreadsheet-FU and there is no way any tank post-Marauder-Era can ever take that sort of damage and still have half armor left. Some of those grenades missed, or were not AV. Yeh it's a possibility one of the guys didn't have AV nade and just tossed locus, possibly flux ( didn't see the emp field) All I'm saying though is, this guy went up against AV and laughed at it, flicked us away and went about his day. Yet so many people complain 1 guy can run up to tanks and kill them with standard stuff. They apparently are doing it wrong, it's not the rest of oursfault
The tank community does not deny we have some...special people....but when I speak on the forums, I try my best to represent the average tankers who want to get into it, or just have, and they dont have full proto or months and months of experience, no corps backing them, or good teachers to help them. I want tanking to be more accessible if they stay in their current state.
Like, I don't claim to get rich off of tanking, but I live comfortably, hovering around 115 mil, not really going up or down, with a slight trend of gaining a mil/week, and honestly, that's pretty damn good, but it means I spend a few matches rail sniping or even the occasional LLAV if I see any proto AV in the kill feed (adv and std i can deal with up close and personal). |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:tanks are NOT OP.
ex: if the most advanced and powerful tanks in the game were to be created, im talking actual "God Mode" tank fitted with the absolutely best modules and turrets were to get into the hand of a completely new player that knew nothing of how to drive tanks, that player would get that "God Mode" tank destroyed almost instantly since he doesn't know how to activate the modules or doesn't understand that when your getting hit, you need to get the hell out of there and heal, thus causing the "God" tank to be destroyed.
ex-2: if the most under fitted tank in the game were to be deployed in battle, then a very high experience tank driver will be able to make it survive the entire match and possibly make a good kill count out of it BECAUSE HE IS SECIALIZED IN DRIVING TANKS AND KNOWS HOW TO WORK THEM.
its not the item that is OP, it is the player themselves that make it look that way because they are the experts in that specific field.
this is coming from a pure tank driver that knows nearly everything about tank driving in this game and has MONTHS of experience driving them, so yeah I know exactly what im talking about.
This happened many times in Chromosome. I would pull a sagaris with full proto everything and go 35:0 on manus peak. I call in another one on the same map but a blueberry TKs me and jacks it- dead in 3 minutes vs a soma 80gj blaster. On the flip side, blueberry calls in a sica and it blows up 1 minute after contact. I pull same sica, but because i maxed out tank skills, I manage to kill a maddy and a couple gunlogis before one of the buddies sneaks up behind be and drops my shields to zero in 4 seconds.
The greatest tanks in the game would be no better than militia tanks if the pilot was not experienced. It does not make him OP, or the AR is OP because some of the best players in the game us the AR. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
658
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around. |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around.
1- wrong about the ptw thing because, well basically look at my post where the 1st thing I said was "tanks are NOT op" and youl see.
2- that's exactly what infantry wants, they want this to be another COD or BF. |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Void Echo wrote:tanks are NOT OP.
ex: if the most advanced and powerful tanks in the game were to be created, im talking actual "God Mode" tank fitted with the absolutely best modules and turrets were to get into the hand of a completely new player that knew nothing of how to drive tanks, that player would get that "God Mode" tank destroyed almost instantly since he doesn't know how to activate the modules or doesn't understand that when your getting hit, you need to get the hell out of there and heal, thus causing the "God" tank to be destroyed.
ex-2: if the most under fitted tank in the game were to be deployed in battle, then a very high experience tank driver will be able to make it survive the entire match and possibly make a good kill count out of it BECAUSE HE IS SECIALIZED IN DRIVING TANKS AND KNOWS HOW TO WORK THEM.
its not the item that is OP, it is the player themselves that make it look that way because they are the experts in that specific field.
this is coming from a pure tank driver that knows nearly everything about tank driving in this game and has MONTHS of experience driving them, so yeah I know exactly what im talking about. This happened many times in Chromosome. I would pull a sagaris with full proto everything and go 35:0 on manus peak. I call in another one on the same map but a blueberry TKs me and jacks it- dead in 3 minutes vs a soma 80gj blaster. On the flip side, blueberry calls in a sica and it blows up 1 minute after contact. I pull same sica, but because i maxed out tank skills, I manage to kill a maddy and a couple gunlogis before one of the buddies sneaks up behind be and drops my shields to zero in 4 seconds. The greatest tanks in the game would be no better than militia tanks if the pilot was not experienced. It does not make him OP, or the AR is OP because some of the best players in the game us the AR.
unfortunately hardly anyone sees this |
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CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around.
You have to give a solution to the problem: How does one make tanks worth the SP and ISK investment, because right now, they are not. (i wont even mention dropships because i feel really bad for them. |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
dropships....... the easiest vehicle to kill and the only one that doesn't survive regardless of skilled pilots or inexperienced ones.... truly the saddest vehicle in the game |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:dropships....... the easiest vehicle to kill and the only one that doesn't survive regardless of skilled pilots or inexperienced ones.... truly the saddest vehicle in the game
i tried out pythons once. it was a bad idea |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
wow, im probably the biggest tank advocate and supporter because honestly, I only see a few good points from other tank drivers yet I see countless posts by myself on the matter... |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vry relevant |
meri jin
Goonfeet Top Men.
98
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:I don't like either choice, to be honest, as you offer extremes.
I would like current prices with the old Marauders, that would be perfect.
I don't like extrems as well, but as I see that tanks are easy to kill right now. A tank should be a tank, expensiv, hard to skill and not all that easy to kill. maybe offering more gamage on the small guns could help. I'm a logi and I can drive tank, this is perfect, this way I alway see both sides. In conclusion I skilled the crap out of AV granates and I'm scared as hell to drive in my tank, becouse I know how EASY it is to kill one with it, and I'm not even talking about forgeguns here. |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
meri jin wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:I don't like either choice, to be honest, as you offer extremes.
I would like current prices with the old Marauders, that would be perfect. I don't like extrems as well, but as I see that tanks are easy to kill right now. A tank should be a tank, expensiv, hard to skill and not all that easy to kill. maybe offering more gamage on the small guns could help. I'm a logi and I can drive tank, this is perfect, this way I alway see both sides. In conclusion I skilled the crap out of AV granates and I'm scared as hell to drive in my tank, becouse I know how EASY it is to kill one with it, and I'm not even talking about forgeguns here.
I skilled into assaulting the 1st week of uprising and figured out 1st hand how easy it is to kill tanks, then I requested a skill resec and im back where I belong |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
693
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Honestly, HAVs do enough damage as-is, just the Large Missile Turrets and Small Railguns need some looking at due to bizzare performance... Especially Large Missile Turrets and more specifically the Cycled.
The HP in my opinion in fine for the militia, and even the standard tanks are okay, I'd like to see an advanced tank with 50% more EHP capabilities then we see now with a HAV level 3 prerequsite, buff the enforcers damage capabilities and increase to a X4 prereq and then bring back the marauders with a X5 HAV prerequisite and give them 200% the HP we have now.
In my honest opinion, even a 50% EHP boost would be massive (at least for my tank) as that would lengthen tank fights by a nice amount, and make AV work harder to kill a tank without making it impossible. anything approaching a 100% EHP boost or more would make HAVs near impossible to kill with any driver with half a brain.
A little goes a long way, we want (well, I want) the high-end tanks to be tougher without making it where careless drivers are fine. _______________________________ _______________________________ _______________________________
EDIT: If it were up to me, I'd redo the roles we have now. Armor tanking would still be kings of EHP, and would take a while to wear down but also take a while to build back up, they'd be the kind of tank you can drive through extended periods of hell but then take a long while to recover. Shield tanks would be burst-tankers where you are practically invulnerable for 30-45 second bursts and then take 2-3 minutes for your super-hardeners to recover. Tweak this as appropriate for balancing, mostly intended for "end-game" HAVs anyways. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
617
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Honestly, HAVs do enough damage as-is, just the Large Missile Turrets and Small Railguns need some looking at due to bizzare performance... Especially Large Missile Turrets and more specifically the Cycled.
The HP in my opinion in fine for the militia, and even the standard tanks are okay, I'd like to see an advanced tank with 50% more EHP capabilities then we see now with a HAV level 3 prerequsite, buff the enforcers damage capabilities and increase to a X4 prereq and then bring back the marauders with a X5 HAV prerequisite and give them 200% the HP we have now.
In my honest opinion, even a 50% EHP boost would be massive (at least for my tank) as that would lengthen tank fights by a nice amount, and make AV work harder to kill a tank without making it impossible. anything approaching a 100% EHP boost or more would make HAVs near impossible to kill with any driver with half a brain.
A little goes a long way, we want (well, I want) the high-end tanks to be tougher without making it where careless drivers are fine.
we do have proto tanks coming back eventually. So how powerful should they be if advanced need a 50% buff |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:meri jin wrote:Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:I don't like either choice, to be honest, as you offer extremes.
I would like current prices with the old Marauders, that would be perfect. I don't like extrems as well, but as I see that tanks are easy to kill right now. A tank should be a tank, expensiv, hard to skill and not all that easy to kill. maybe offering more gamage on the small guns could help. I'm a logi and I can drive tank, this is perfect, this way I alway see both sides. In conclusion I skilled the crap out of AV granates and I'm scared as hell to drive in my tank, becouse I know how EASY it is to kill one with it, and I'm not even talking about forgeguns here. I skilled into assaulting the 1st week of uprising and figured out 1st hand how easy it is to kill tanks, then I requested a skill resec and im back where I belong
I recently skilled into callogi with MD. makes earning money a little easier bc tanks and mds compliment each other really well. |
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CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Honestly, HAVs do enough damage as-is, just the Large Missile Turrets and Small Railguns need some looking at due to bizzare performance... Especially Large Missile Turrets and more specifically the Cycled.
The HP in my opinion in fine for the militia, and even the standard tanks are okay, I'd like to see an advanced tank with 50% more EHP capabilities then we see now with a HAV level 3 prerequsite, buff the enforcers damage capabilities and increase to a X4 prereq and then bring back the marauders with a X5 HAV prerequisite and give them 200% the HP we have now.
In my honest opinion, even a 50% EHP boost would be massive (at least for my tank) as that would lengthen tank fights by a nice amount, and make AV work harder to kill a tank without making it impossible. anything approaching a 100% EHP boost or more would make HAVs near impossible to kill with any driver with half a brain.
A little goes a long way, we want (well, I want) the high-end tanks to be tougher without making it where careless drivers are fine.
No tank, no matter how powerful, in the hands of a poor tanker, will unkillable, but i see where you're coming from. I'd rather see increased number of high and low slots. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
693
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 06:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
I'd also like to say that while I'd like the EHPs to go up, i'd also like to see a significant increase in the engine-block damage to also properly punish careless drivers without infantry support and to reward gutsy infantry. I'd also like to see a smaller but still appreciable damage-increase for hitting the "belly" of an HAV so that proximity mines and remote explosives are more of a threat.
All this of course assuming the EHP goes up. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
658
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 07:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around. 1- wrong about the ptw thing because, well basically look at my post where the 1st thing I said was "tanks are NOT op" and youl see. 2- that's exactly what infantry wants, they want this to be another COD or BF.
Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before:
a) Tank kills me b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry. d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank
Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least.
In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover.
|
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 07:35:00 -
[54] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Void Echo wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around. 1- wrong about the ptw thing because, well basically look at my post where the 1st thing I said was "tanks are NOT op" and youl see. 2- that's exactly what infantry wants, they want this to be another COD or BF. Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before: a) Tank kills me b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry. d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least. In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover.
...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA are you serious, that's your argument? "tankers don't realize that running av means that player is really only effective against vehicles"? no **** Sherlock that's why its called "AV" (ANTI VEHICLE), and yes we understand what you go through, I personally do because I was an av for a week, but still dude, your argument has absolutely 0 points giving to your side of the argument.
tanks are MEANT to be killing machines that are NOT paper thin like you want, I they were then they wouldn't be used... EVER. tanks are meant to dominate the battle field with and without team support (team support pretty much makes the tank unkillable).
and as I stated before, they are in no way op. how would you react if you went 20-5 in a match with whatever your specialized in and your enemies you killed claimed your weapon is "OP" and wanted it nerfed? |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 07:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Void Echo wrote:[quote=DJINN leukoplast]Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around. 1- wrong about the ptw thing because, well basically look at my post where the 1st thing I said was "tanks are NOT op" and youl see. 2- that's exactly what infantry wants, they want this to be another COD or BF. Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before: a) Tank kills me b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry. d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least. In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover.
So you want to able to do everything? I think the game you want to be playing is called Battlefield. |
meri jin
Goonfeet Top Men.
98
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 07:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Void Echo wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around. 1- wrong about the ptw thing because, well basically look at my post where the 1st thing I said was "tanks are NOT op" and youl see. 2- that's exactly what infantry wants, they want this to be another COD or BF. Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before: a) Tank kills me b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry. d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least. In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover.
Very bad trolling 0/10 |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
485
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 07:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Void Echo wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Void Echo wrote:[quote=DJINN leukoplast]Tanks should be neither.
1. A God-mode tank? Seriously? Yeah, no. Tanks are already p2w enough as it is.
2. Cheap throw away tanks would be even worse, I don't want to have to bring in AV every match and sacrifice my anti-infantry nades (which are extremely important to me... I feel dysfunctional without them). It's already bad enough with all these LAV turkeys running around. 1- wrong about the ptw thing because, well basically look at my post where the 1st thing I said was "tanks are NOT op" and youl see. 2- that's exactly what infantry wants, they want this to be another COD or BF. Tanks are basically 100% invincible to anybody with no AV (which is most players, especially in ambush... at least until they die once or twice and change their fit). But as a infantry player, I am 100% vulnerable to everything in this game. Even with proto AV nades, I have to get really lucky to throw enough nades in close range before: a) Tank kills me b) Tank turns tail and runs off to get health back c) Tanks infantry buddies wipe me out because I am speced for AV, not anti-infantry. Therefore an extremely vulnerable to infantry. d) Tank uses some kind of OP module to make them temp invincible, in which they either run off or wipe me out e) All of the above while I try to re-supply my nades with a hive, cause 3 proto nades won't even kill the weakest tank Tankers fail to recognize that running AV means that player is really only effective against AV. It's a HUGE sacrifice most of the time. And usually not rewarding in the least. In Chromosome I ran proto swarms with some crap side-arm when some tanker came out and was causing problems, I had absolutely NO chance against infantry in order to attempt to take out the tank. I had to sacrifice myself many times just to scratch the tanks health so they could run away and repair. Every once in a while I would get lucky and score a kill, but it was few and far between because tanks just run away behind cover. So you want to able to do everything? I think the game you want to be playing is called Battlefield.
you need to delete the part where it says I said that. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
431
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 07:51:00 -
[58] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:So you want to able to do everything? I think the game you want to be playing is called Battlefield.[/quote wrote:
you need to delete the part where it says I said that.
My reply is in the context of engineers getting smgs and rocket launchers to kill infantry and tanks. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
658
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 08:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:
...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA are you serious, that's your argument? "tankers don't realize that running av means that player is really only effective against vehicles"? no **** Sherlock that's why its called "AV" (ANTI VEHICLE), and yes we understand what you go through, I personally do because I was an av for a week, but still dude, your argument has absolutely 0 points giving to your side of the argument.
tanks are MEANT to be killing machines that are NOT paper thin like you want, I they were then they wouldn't be used... EVER. tanks are meant to dominate the battle field with and without team support (team support pretty much makes the tank unkillable).
and as I stated before, they are in no way op. how would you react if you went 20-5 in a match with whatever your specialized in and your enemies you killed claimed your weapon is "OP" and wanted it nerfed?
Exactly, tanks are p2w noobery. Nuff said.
You just proved yourself wrong, appreciate it, saved me the time |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3296
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 08:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
Should tanks be win-buttons or cheap throw-aways?
No. Tanks should be NEITHER of those things.
When enemy infantry shows up with no AV weapons (including Grenades), then it's perfectly reasonable for the tank to LOOK LIKE a win button. But if there are a handful of guys with AV Grenades, or if there's a dedicated AV guy, the tank should have to retreat or risk serious damage/destruction. AV Grenades SHOULDN'T be a primary AV weapon on their own, they should be treated as similarly to how sidearms are against "proper" weapons. If you bring AV Grenades, it should be completely unreasonable to expect a tank to run from you. Even 2 guys with AV Grenades should be a credible threat only if you're running a cheap/terrible fit or a glass cannon. If there are 3 - 5 guys (depending on skill/SP investment/meta level relative to tank) with AV Grenades, then watch it burn, but it should require at least that many non-dedicated AV players to be a credible threat.
If you have guys running dedicated AV, one Swarm Launcher/Forge Gun/Plasma Cannon should be sufficient to keep one equal-tier tank at bay. Unless the tank driver is stupid, or the tank is badly fitted, it should be extremely difficult to kill without backup. If the AV guy is smart, he should be able to avoid significant risk of getting himself killed as well.
When it comes to tank vs. tank, it should be reasonable for damage-modded Prototype weapons to 2-shot (but NOT 1-shot) Militia tanks or glass cannon fittings. |
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