SENTINELS Overall bonus 2% bonus per level to resistance against small arms fire.

+1
i wanted to try heavy this new build . but seeing all junk that has been done to them . ehh no.
i would even go so far as to say make them useful . or get rid of them CCP
maybe even give them a skill to harden defenses but it should slow them down more.

but really they have no reason to be here anymore unless they get a level shake

Slow them down more? That's crazy talk bro! Heavies are slow enough trust me.

The medium and light classes can walk backwards faster than heavies can sprint! Making us any slower would only further gimp us as a class!

Slow them down more? That's crazy talk bro! Heavies are slow enough trust me.

The medium and light classes can walk backwards faster than heavies can sprint! Making us any slower would only further gimp us as a class!

how about read what i wrote . enter a mode on the heavy so when you activate it . it gives you a major damage resistance at the cost of moving like a turtle .

heavy = pain turtle

(pain turtle is trademarked by drake sadani and tacti-corp if you wish to use pain turtle please send 1000 AUR to drake sadani )

Or you could just hire me for 1mil ISK + Dropsuit costs.

nah i'm good ^_^ btw did you actually play as sver true bloods or just join up with them on dust ?

I joined them on DUST. My talents were underutilized in a different corporation. I'm a vet EVE player since '03

Slow them down more? That's crazy talk bro! Heavies are slow enough trust me.

The medium and light classes can walk backwards faster than heavies can sprint! Making us any slower would only further gimp us as a class!

The heavy should be able to absorb more dmg than now. Since we aren't effectively able to dish dmg out with an HMG, it makes sense that we should be true bullet sponges. I'm all for more damage resistance. It would help compensate for the medium suits that have the capability to amass 1k total shields and armor.

A consolation buff might simply be to remove the headshot bonus on heavy suits. The heavy head is so large and the suite moves so slow, there is no challenge or precision skill of a merc to hit a heavy's head. This could compensate for the heavy's relatively low HP compared to the max hp a medium suit can have or from their capability to have multiple damage mods.

If the heavy is to serve only as a defensive meatshield compared to suits with 1k shield and armor or full dmg mods, CCP, let the heavy be able to absorb massive amounts of dmg to be a true meat shield.

Being able to absorb two magazines of any light or small arms weapon would suffice, even if we have a little slower movement. This might compensate for the HMG's horrible range. It might actually help the heavy suit perform as it was meant to in PC.

+1

^^ haven't seen new redo of skill tree but CCP do above ^^

I agree that Heavies could use a boost to EHP, though I also agree that they should be slowed down more.

I think that Heavies should have as much EHP as MLT HAVs though to compensate for this, they need to be as fast as a tree stump. They should be a situational suit that gets dropped off at the point where they are going to be defending and they're not going anywhere else fast without a ride from a blue LAV. I've seen people using Heavies as slightly slower Assault suits and this isn't what they were intended for (IMHO).

Heavies should be the bridge between dropsuits and MTACs and until they have their EHP buffed, they will not properly represent this.

Maybe you guys would like to look at my thread? Perhaps the heavy section? On a side not: HOW, WHEN I CAME UP THE HARDENER IDEA, DID I NOT THINK IT SHOULD BE PASSIVE!!?

New dropsiuit class bonuses(./?) *COMPLETE*

i just saw your post. i dnt know how i missed it. but i dnt think it should be a module or use a slot. it should ba askill for heavies or just a bonus. because its in their description to be resistant to small arms fire. for a future suit designed for small ares fire its hard to believe i continue to die to small arms. i mean really.

again that is a description of a blaster turret. if its only to be a situational st. i should have to spec over 6 million SP into it. only to use every 5 matches, and get pwnd in my assault set up that has no points in it.

When are blaster turrets in interior places? Plus, I feel that you should be able to easily facerape the assault given the right circumstances.

If you want to have more EHP, you NEED to have a drawback added/increased to compensate. You can't have your cake and eat it too, no one should (IDK why CCP is letting the TAR scrubs eat it). I really think that the heavy is best off in CQC areas where there is no escaping them despite the fact that they move slower than tectonic plates (which they are much faster than currently and shouldn't be).

Also, I never said it should only be used once every 5 matches, it should be used every match, it is just that you're obviously not seeing the situations which are conducive to having a 2500 EHP (roughly where I think they should be) dropsuit with an HMG at.

It should take an entire squad to take down a heavy, though they should be slow enough that they shouldn't be a viable sole composition for a squad.

Personally, I think it would be cool if we had an option for heavies to "Anchor" similar to POS guns/mods in Eve. Make it so that they are immobile, though they get increases to their turn speed.

As it is now, scrubs still run around in Heavies like they are Assault suits, they shouldn't even have that thought due to the ridiculously slow speed.

Buff Heavy EHP, Nerf Heavy Speed.

^^ O.O OH GOD NO... IT"S HAPPENING!! THE PYRAMID QUOTING HAS BEGUN!!!

Every single whinge here seems to boil down to a need to learn how to fit your damn heavy suit.

Heavy shoukd take a squad to take doen, but not be a good idea for a whole squad of just heavies? Short of limiting them to sidearms-only that would be impossible, you'd be a moving wall capable of simply steamrolling through anything short of a HAV and making a wall around the objective.

Movement speed is fine as-is, bordering on a bit fast. EHP is also perfectly fine if you have any clue how to fit your suit (even the meta 0 variants have just shy of 1k EHP before skills and mods) and learn to play (this is not Call of Halo, learn to utilize cover and stop standing around in open fields; if you don't, I will happily plink away the two+ mags it takes my sniper rifle to kill you).

The heavy is fine, the PEBCAK. Learn to fit your suit, learn to play Dust, and learn to work as a team instead of flailing about for a solo pwn-machine.

Every single whinge here seems to boil down to a need to learn how to fit your damn heavy suit.

Heavy shoukd take a squad to take doen, but not be a good idea for a whole squad of just heavies? Short of limiting them to sidearms-only that would be impossible, you'd be a moving wall capable of simply steamrolling through anything short of a HAV and making a wall around the objective.

Movement speed is fine as-is, bordering on a bit fast. EHP is also perfectly fine if you have any clue how to fit your suit (even the meta 0 variants have just shy of 1k EHP before skills and mods) and learn to play (this is not Call of Halo, learn to utilize cover and stop standing around in open fields; if you don't, I will happily plink away the two+ mags it takes my sniper rifle to kill you).

The heavy is fine, the PEBCAK. Learn to fit your suit, learn to play Dust, and learn to work as a team instead of flailing about for a solo pwn-machine.

I'm not sure what your first paragraph actually meant. It didn't seem to be relevant to the OP's original post.

With your second paragraph; if moving at a turtle's pace is too fast, then the heavy may very well move too fast. The EHP of 1336k is what the Prototype Sentinal suit capability without passive skills. This would be fine on any heavy if medium suits were not also capable of having 1k EHP which the basic prototype suits are near. The logistics suits are capable of having over 1k ehp because they get a lot of high and low slots for def of dmg mods. This means that the sentinel prototype can only absorb approximately 10 more bullets from an assault rifle compared to a full defended medium suit. This makes the heavy's EHP ineffective when it only takes around 10 more AR bullets to do run out of health.

As for your third paragraph; I'll think you'll find that people have learned to fit their heavy suit and that's why they understand that it is a weak suit in comparison.

By the way, if it takes you more than two mags to kill anyone with a sniper rifle, you should learn to fit your suit, cause damn...


Why did the heavy cross the road? Because he knew Geirskoegul sucks at sniping. Is the heavy too fast for ya keep up with? Are you aiming at heads or the ground behind the heavy? These bullets aren't lock on. You actually have to aim

I agree that Heavies could use a boost to EHP, though I also agree that they should be slowed down more.

I think that Heavies should have as much EHP as MLT HAVs though to compensate for this, they need to be as fast as a tree stump.

EHP of a Mil TANK? Maybe a fair bit lower but, a good 1.5, 2 times the Assualts or Logis EHP. Just saying this because if you whip out your 60,000 isk Proto Heavy and wreck my 200,000 Mil tank, there is a slight issue. And no infantry should be slower then the Heavy is right now. Infantry are supposed to be AHEAD of the tanks. Not Behind them.

1. No, Heavies should have their movement nerfed to a point where (when sprinting) they are moving as fast as they do now while not sprinting. I don't see why they couldn't have their Stamina boosted though.

2. IMHO, Heavies should have between 1000-1500 Armor and shields depending on racial variant. Though all variants should be at the same total (roughly 2500 Raw HP).

3. I think that giving heavies passive resists to small arms fire is a good thing, though again I think that it should be flavored for their racial variant. Make it split so that one is stronger than the other, for example, maybe the Caldari Heavy could have 40% passive resists for Shields and 20% for Armor while the Amarr would have 20% for Shields and 40% for Armor.

Yes, I will agree that Heavies are designed to win 1v1 vs anything aside from another Heavy, an Installation or a HAV. I also think that a Heavy should be able to stand up to LAVs better than they currently can. Heavies are intended to be massive semi-mobile mounds of Armor and Shield generators, you don't strap all of that equipment to you and expect to move with any semblance of fluidity. By handing them 1v1's you need to make sure that there are sufficient drawbacks so that no-talent scrubs don't see it as a viable "I can run around and pwn everyone since I R L337 PWNZ0R!!!1!!!ONE!!!ELEVEN!!!!!"-suit.

making us slower would make us a terret

^^ haven't seen new redo of skill tree but CCP do above ^^

in the description it says the heavy suit is supposed to be resistant to small arms fire and small explosives. making the shields and armor take 30% less damage (expect headshots which get the full bonus) would make that phrase true and help further accomplish CCP's vision of the heavy becoming a miniature tank for squad protection.


making the heavy harder to kill and more effective will force players to fight tactically against them using flux grenades, and different weaponry.

everyone stop talking about slowing down the heavy. if you cant hit the heavy now, then you cant ******* shoot. i play heavy, but i can hit them with a militia sniper and do massive damage, because their slow. the heavy should run faster than it is now.

NO! I AM NOT SAYING THE HEAVY SHOULD BE AS FAST AS AN ASSAULT, A LOGI, OR SCOUT!

BUT THE HEAVY SHOULD BE FAST ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE GAME. If my entire squad is running to an objective, i should be behind them (if they all stop at the objective while i catch up) by no more than 6 seconds.

a logi, and a scout should still be fast enough to circle me (because my turning speed will still be just as slow as it is now anyway). shotgunners will still be able to do damge to me. and snipers from a far will still see me moving in slow motion. but at least i can keep up with the team, move to key position in time to engage enemies, and help push the frontline forward (after i get there).

I mean really, a heavy is bad a point defense, because his scanners are crap, and my sig is so hgh everyone can see me. if the one guy that does eventually come at the end of the match is any good, he'll chuck a flux and start shooting me before i can turn or runway and im gone. plus, seriously? i've fought assualts that get in a 1v1 no cover fiefight with me get their shields stript and then runn away so fast my bulets cant hit them anymore. are you on crack?

Keep a logi squadmate with you and have them equip an Active Scanner. There, now you know they're coming and you can brutalize them as soon as they come around that corner.

I wouldn't carry an active scanner, I'd just level up my skills that increase precision and radius. Maybe put on some modules that help out.

Someone really wants a bulky Assault suit. I am willing to be you're one of the guys that run around in a Heavy with a GLU. As of right now, we have only two Heavy weapons and only heavies can fit them.

Forge Gun: The anti-material SR of Dust.
HMG: CQC handheld belt-fed chaingun of doom.

Your team will have the most "efficacy" if you're using the weapons that only you can use (detailed above) which would indicate that you are best off killing enemy installations/vehicles from a good vantage point with the Forge Gun or defending CQC areas near objectives by belt feeding death to reddots.

Stop trying to paint the Heavy as a bulky Assault suit.

everyone stop talking about slowing down the heavy. if you cant hit the heavy now, then you cant ******* shoot. i play heavy, but i can hit them with a militia sniper and do massive damage, because their slow. the heavy should run faster than it is now.

NO! I AM NOT SAYING THE HEAVY SHOULD BE AS FAST AS AN ASSAULT, A LOGI, OR SCOUT!

BUT THE HEAVY SHOULD BE FAST ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE GAME. If my entire squad is running to an objective, i should be behind them (if they all stop at the objective while i catch up) by no more than 6 seconds.

a logi, and a scout should still be fast enough to circle me (because my turning speed will still be just as slow as it is now anyway). shotgunners will still be able to do damge to me. and snipers from a far will still see me moving in slow motion. but at least i can keep up with the team, move to key position in time to engage enemies, and help push the frontline forward (after i get there).

I mean really, a heavy is bad a point defense, because his scanners are crap, and my sig is so hgh everyone can see me. if the one guy that does eventually come at the end of the match is any good, he'll chuck a flux and start shooting me before i can turn or runway and im gone. plus, seriously? i've fought assualts that get in a 1v1 no cover fiefight with me get their shields stript and then runn away so fast my bulets cant hit them anymore. are you on crack?

@Jaraiya

How would something like this sound?

Nerf Movement speed by enough to make sprinting as fast as walking currently is

Buff Raw HP
Buff Resist vs Small Arms
Buff Turning speed by double or so

Buff HMG Damage by 10% or so (keep optimal at 10-15m)

I don't think that would make them OP, though it would make CQC beasts (which they should be).

@Jaraiya

If point defense is the intended effective deployment of Heavies, they don't need the speed. You wouldn't need to kill them in order to defend your point, making them run away is also point defense. Besides HMG getting a buff to damage would make TTK drop for heavies.

Area Denial through murder or fear generation works just as well either way.

How would a heavy earn WP if all he does is camp a hacked objective and make would be attackers flee but not kill them? It is Illogical!

@Jaraiya

If point defense is the intended effective deployment of Heavies, they don't need the speed. You wouldn't need to kill them in order to defend your point, making them run away is also point defense. Besides HMG getting a buff to damage would make TTK drop for heavies.

Area Denial through murder or fear generation works just as well either way.

Here is an Idea, instead of completely restricting Heavies to the nearly useless and completely boring playstyle of "point defense"

give logis the ability to deploy unmanned HMG turrets at objectives.

Give heavies a bit more speed and HP, and add the changes to the HMG that I suggested earlier under category (a) to be able to be somewhat more useful in combat.

Apparently not crippling enough otherwise I wouldn't still see entire squads of Heavies running around like they were Assaults.

So, you're saying that you don't like having your objectives stay held? That is what I am hearing when you say "nearly useless".

Also, your assessment of the "point defense" playstyle as being "completely boring" is 100% subjective. I happen to like "point defense" (though I also like my teams objectives staying blue).

I have to agree, that I would like small turrets back, though if they were unmanned HMGs what would be the point of the Heavy then?

Am I the only one who doesn't want the Heavy suit to be relegated to the Crutch-specialized Assault Suit?

I ran Heavy/Logi in Chromosome, your declaration of my "obvious cluelessness" is purely opinion.

Heavies are supposed to be Heavies (a dropsuit class all their own), not the crutch-specialized Assault suit.

Also, your statement that calling me ridiculous isn't offensive is also opinion. I could very well be offended by that (not saying that I am or am not), though someone else could also feel that it is offensive. Therefore, your statement is subjective.

LOL at this post!

the only time the role of "point defense" for a heavy is viable is the 3 point map(even here it is only rarely)! On 5 point maps I have sat for literally a third of the match at an objective to defend it, but nothing ever happened!

A full squad can go from one objective to an objective being contested, kill enemy forces, and take back the objective more efficiently than a heavy could stay behind to defend it.

Most squads stay together, so if a heavy stays behind it is usually by themselves. Then, the zerging enemy suads rush in and easily overwhelm said heavy in numbers and CQC manueverability, and take the objective.

So tell me, in which one of those scenarios which occur in 99% of matches does the heavy as "point defense" seem useful or exciting to play?

I would much rather keep pace with my squad, to defend them by laying down suppressive fire on enemies, allowing my squad to perform flanking maneuvers. Then when Enemies are dealt with, I could hold them off as they respawn while my squad hacks the objectives and installations.

Which playstyle seems more useful and exciting to you?

in the description it says the heavy suit is supposed to be resistant to small arms fire and small explosives. making the shields and armor take 30% less damage (expect headshots which get the full bonus) would make that phrase true and help further accomplish CCP's vision of the heavy becoming a miniature tank for squad protection.


making the heavy harder to kill and more effective will force players to fight tactically against them using flux grenades, and different weaponry.

no suit is ever going to used for what it's meant only.

+3% to _______ damage per level

You're missing something though, we don't have LMGs in Dust, we have HMGs in Dust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun

Let's see someone move with a squad with a Ma-Deuce carrying it while firing to provide suppressive fire.

Also, all caps do not a good point make. You may want to calm down, high blood pressure can be deadly.

you also forget, the lmg guy can carry it himself... hmmm oh wait my heavy carries the hmg himself? i guess they have them same role. but, since its the future everything got beefed.


also, yeah, spewing out sarcasm don't make you sound smart, it just makes you easier to identify as a jerk troll, watch yourself*. the CAPs are to make the main points standout from the text. especially for those who dnt want to read the text, such as yourself.

And you can only fire the Shotgun thanks to the "pneumatic armature".

Without things like that and the augmentations our suits have (as well as the protection the suits provide) we wouldn't be able to even fire the majority of the weapons.

Please take this somewhere else if you two are going to continue bickering like an old married couple.

Now please stick to the topic, this thread IS NOT about the HMG, nor is it about any other weapon. IT IS ABOUT THE HEAVY SUIT.

it needs something, but that's a huge percentage.

here's my issue: if i point my ar at a suit within optimal, i get 110% against armour and against shields, why don't i get those kinds of numbers when i'm looking down my hmg scope?

look at my eariler posts. 30% will still allow a heavy to get killed in one clip from a basic assault rifle. but it will punish people who have poor arm or use no tactics.

Apparently not crippling enough otherwise I wouldn't still see entire squads of Heavies running around like they were Assaults.

But that amount does mean that when we get armor and shield hardeners (something I'm hoping for) that you can stack a couple on +skills that increase their efficacy (thanks CCP Remnant ) = >50% damage reduction.

20% or *25% seems resonable to me. (see post #71) *when I made post #71 I forgot to factor in damage mods.

except this doesnt happen

Are you seeing through my eyes? Are you spying on what I see on my TV?

No?

Then how do you know that?

I have seen entire squads of Heavies running around with DTARs and GLUs within the last week.

Don't tell me I don't see what I see and stop trying to drag me into a stupid argument so you can beat me with experience.

Hmm.. Perhaps I should elaborate on my posts. Firstly, when I say Heavy, I mean Sentinel, why should this effect the basic suit? No other bonuses effect basic suits.

When I'm talking about the Hardener skill I'm talking about it leveling the same as all others:

CHARTS!!! (number is level) (going off of the 25% resistance)

1. 5% resistance


2. 10% resistance


3. 15% resistance


4. 20% resistance


5. 25% resistance

So in order to actually get the bonus you need to have actually put SP into it.

why do you keep posting here? im here becaue its my post. stop trolling bro

hmmm... i still feel the percent should be a bit higher.

Only problem: Needs a WHOOOOLE lotta skill points.

Thought about it, remembered something else that might make you happy.

Currently no one knows if it's a bug or intentional, but all Minmatar Basic Suits get +1 armor rep per second.

If it's intentional and CCP is planning on doing more things like this, then they could use my 25% scaling + a base of 5% on all Sentinel dropsuits. That gets it up to the 30% that you wanted, but only once you've reached level 5.

So 5% per level for max of 25% as the Sentinel skill bonus. And when they implement Armor Hardeners 10% per Complex hardener, x4, plus 5% per skill level to hardener module efficacy is 75% total damage reduction. At the current 400 armor and max skills that's roughly 2000 EHP against low caliber weapons (AR's, MD's, SMG's, etc) but still only 500 EHP against high caliber weapons (shotguns and sniper rifles).

They'll probably implement a max percentage (say 40% TOTAL) to prevent that. Keep in mind, these will most likely suffer from stacking penalties as well.

Have the Damage Resistance be to low caliber weapons and explosives only. So sniper rifles and shotguns still do normal damage to a Heavy. That solidifies the hard counter these weapons have for the Heavy.

So 5% per level for max of 25% as the Sentinel skill bonus. And when they implement Armor Hardeners 10% per Complex hardener, x4, plus 5% per skill level to hardener module efficacy is 75% total damage reduction. At the current 400 armor and max skills that's roughly 2000 EHP against low caliber weapons (AR's, MD's, SMG's, etc) but still only 500 EHP against high caliber weapons (shotguns and sniper rifles).

That makes the heavy frightening to Assaults, but easily killable by SR and Shotgun scouts.

Problem is, 40% is kinda crap. On 400 armor that increases it to ~660 EHP, an increase of 260 EHP. That's barely 2x Complex Armor Plates. If it takes 4x Armor Hardeners to get 40% it isn't worth it at all.

My opinion is that 50% - 75% is the best spot for resistance. At 400 HP of armor; 50% makes it 800 EHP and 75% makes it 1600 EHP. And if resistance only applies to small caliber weapons (not snipers and shotguns) then it makes the heavy the Assault busting tank everyone wants, while still making it easily countered by snipers and shotguns.

except this doesnt happen

Problem is, 40% is kinda crap. On 400 armor that increases it to ~660 EHP, an increase of 260 EHP. That's barely 2x Complex Armor Plates. If it takes 4x Armor Hardeners to get 40% it isn't worth it at all.

Are you adding 100 shields? Because if you're doing the math the way I think you are, then that's the only way it would be a 260 increase. And this has nothing to do with increaseing total hp. Resistance means that 1 unit of their armor is worth more than 1 unit of your armor.

Plus these wouldn't have the same drawbacks as armor plates. Since they don't add on anything (they just increase the effectiveness of what is already there) like armor plates do (the extra armor plating), your movement speed stays the same, making hardeners preferable to people who want to get around fast.

Do you expect the same results from something with less drawbacks? The cap would be there to stop from people running around in a Sentinel suit with 30% base resistance (skill: 25%, base Sentinel suit:5%) and filling all low slots with hardeners (if I remember correctly, it has 4 low slots) giving it 70% damage reduction. This is right were you said you think it should be.

I think when you do the math you are taking the % out of the suits ehp, this is not the case!

The % is of incoming damage. (see post #71 and also note that it is using 20%, not the 25% or 30% we are discussing now) You do not add 30% of max armor to your ehp, you reduce 30% of all incoming damage. So if you get hit with something that does 100 damage, what is 30% of 100? 30! This means that you subtract 30 from 100 giving you 70, that is the amount of damage you would actually take.

Letting us reach a number like 70% or 75% would mean that in the exact same scenario the heavy would take

• 70%: 30 damage


• 75%: 25 damage

PLUS the resistance of weapon type (hybrid, laser, explosive, projectile) v health type (shield, armor)

**Edits: Changed it, didn't like the changes so I put it back**

they should get the base 10% resistance. and then 2% per level for a total of 20% when the skill is max. i cost a million sp anyway. plus with flux grenades, your shields will be depleted and a swuad can take you down. but at least one on one you can fight more efficeintly.

You're missing something though, we don't have LMGs in Dust, we have HMGs in Dust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_machine_gun

Let's see someone move with a squad with a Ma-Deuce carrying it while firing to provide suppressive fire.

Also, all caps do not a good point make. You may want to calm down, high blood pressure can be deadly.

making the heavy harder to kill and more effective will force players to fight tactically against them using flux grenades, and different weaponry.

Well without dropsuit that boost strength it's impossible but then why are you making a comparison in real life to a game that takes place thousands of years in the future,where you jump out of a spaceship for all intents and purposes, flip automobiles, and have shields. i know military tech is advanced but dont see many marines wearing complex shield extenders, in real life nobody does these things. Logic people come on.

IDK, ask the OP why he was painting an HMG as an LMG

Because when comparing the In Game HMG to realistic military weapons it comes up closer to a LMG than a HMG.

A real life HMG, otherwise known as a the M61 Vulcan, weighs 250 pounds and fires 20 mm rounds at 6000 RPM at a speed of ~1050 m/s with an effective point range out to 1.5 kilometers and a maximum range well beyond that.

A real life LMG, otherwise known as the Minigun, weighs 80 pounds and fires NATO 7.62 mm rounds at 2000 - 4000 RPM at a speed of ~800 m/s with an effective point range out to 1000 meters and a maximum range of 2 kilometers.

Which one sounds like what we have in the game? The only thing our In Game HMG has in common with the M61 Vulcan is the weight...

So basically you want everyone else to use more tactics, while the heavy itself requires less tactics?

Please, do New Eden a favor and kill yourself, your clone is obviously defective

2. for basic heavy suit its 10% base resistance with 3% per lvl for a max of 25%. (or 2% per lvl for a max of 20% is also acceptable)

1. ok. so for sentinel its base 10% resistance with 5% damage resistance per lvl, to a max of 35% for damage to sheilds and armor.

3. for galente suits its 10% base to shields and armor. with 4% increase per lvl a max of 30% for damage to armor only. (the shields stays at a base 10%)

4. for caldari its base 10% resistance to shields and armor. with a 4% increase per lvl to a max of 30% to shields only. (base 10% resistance to armor stays the same.

5. minmintar its a base 15% resistance to shield and armor and a 3% increase per lvl to max of 30% for both shields and armor. (the minmintar have less shields and armor than everyone else. however they have more slots than the other heavies. i dnt want them to be OP, but if the resistance is to low at the beginning you will just lose. still the minmintar heavy is supposed to be fast as well)

The basic suits are so you can just try out that size frame, why would you go PRO Basic? It makes no sense. Basic is there to give you a feel for the suit before you invest all your SP into a class. There is no insentive to stay Basic rather than use a specialized suit.

So basically you want everyone else to use more tactics, while the heavy itself requires less tactics?

Im not apposed to this but it would need lots of balance work 35% res is probably to high. Better to low ball it at first and then increase as needed. Might need to make heavys slower as well.

I don't think you realize how slow a heavy is once you throw 3 or 4 plates on it.

No such thing as a good heavy who uses no tactic

The heavy also needs turning speed increased slightly......just enough so it is possible to follow a target......right now you just get circle strafed to death

Since we're throwing out far-fetched bordering ridiculous ideas in here,

The Scout suit needs to get 11% chance to evade incoming damage per level with a maximum of 50% chance to evade at level 5.

Yey! And more CPU/PG.

Since we're throwing out far-fetched bordering ridiculous ideas in here,

The Scout suit needs to get 11% chance to evade incoming damage per level with a maximum of 50% chance to evade at level 5.

Yey! And more CPU/PG.

No such thing as a good heavy who uses no tactic

Then why have proto basic suits? The basic can be useful. If I want to run two hi slots on my heavy guess what? I need to go proto basic. I think the solution is just increase base hp to 1000 and just disperse it to shield and armor based on race and add another utility based on race as well. Ie amarr 400 shield and 600armor and an extra high. Gallente the same but with a low. Caldari suit shield600 armor 400 extra high. Winmatar 500 and 500 with an equipment slot.


Edit: you could argue switching amarr and gallente but so far gallente seem to get extra lows while amarr gets even highs and lows

Im not apposed to this but it would need lots of balance work 35% res is probably to high. Better to low ball it at first and then increase as needed. Might need to make heavys slower as well.

The heavy also needs turning speed increased slightly......just enough so it is possible to follow a target......right now you just get circle strafed to death

Losing 1/3 plus of damage (35%) is excessive but a change in the that direction is needed for heavies to be as advertised.

IMO, when they move the bonuses down to Basic dropsuits, the basic should get a "+2% Damage Resistance per Level". That's a meaningful bonus, which wont outright ruin anything, and will encourage people going to level V before jumping up to Sentinel.

Now if only we could get a meaningful Sentinel bonus....

Agreed. Heavies don't need to be any slower. As long as they are the slowest class, that's should be good enough.

just give heavies WP for suppressing enemies and taking damage
increase resistance when being healed by a logistics don't just increase the heavies ability to act alone

the logistics class is practically made to cover most of the heavies shortcomings

low on health have a logi heal you
you died get revived with 80 percent of your armor
ran out of ammo logi got you covered with nano hives and can give you a slight repair with certain nano hives

also point defense does not mean to stay at one objective it means to stay at one point and fire from that one point use an lav to get to a spot and stay in that spot

also most heavies need to learn to play
i see to many heavies running across open areas
not firing while close to cover
getting tunnel syndrome and only shooting in one direction when you can see 4 red dots on radar coming from other directions

i just went through the market and made a couple calculations. the max fire rate on the tac rifle is 780 rpm (might not be exact.) that's 13 bullets in a second (and no, mashing r1 13 times a second is not hard for a good fpser. i can cap out the 1000 rpm on the maggie in borderlands 2 if i feel like it.) each of which deal 78 points of damage. 13x78=1014. 1014 damage a second on a light weapon is already pretty ridiculous. with 2 damage mods and full pro, you can get that up to 1348 damage per second. meaning i can flank a supertanked logi or a fully tanked heavy and kill them in less than a second. now, lets take the proto hmg (which is designed to obliterate infantry) and figure out its dps. the rof is 2000 rpm, which equates to 33 shots per second. 33x19.4=604.2. 2 mods and full pro will get that up to 851 damage per second. whoever thought it was a good idea to give an assault rifle nearly double the damage of a MINIGUN should be fired right now. and its not like the recoil makes a difference if you know what you're doing. you wanna know what the strategy used by PXRXO, pink fluffy bounty hunters, imperfects, and everyone else that goes 20-0 with this disgrace to competitive gaming is? get sharpshooter 5, turn aim assist on, and mash the trigger at shotgun range. great job, ccp. your buffing of the tar has resulted in the only weapon more overpowered than dual wield fmg9s (aka what made mw3 garbage).

in the description it says the heavy suit is supposed to be resistant to small arms fire and small explosives. making the shields and armor take 30% less damage (expect headshots which get the full bonus) would make that phrase true and help further accomplish CCP's vision of the heavy becoming a miniature tank for squad protection.


making the heavy harder to kill and more effective will force players to fight tactically against them using flux grenades, and different weaponry.


the heavy suit w/ hmg in this game takes the place of an lmg in a real squad. it has all the same exact roles, with the bonus of being a bigger gun). every gun in this game as a counterpart in reality but the ones in the game are stronger more volitile versions which their suits allow them to carry to accomplish the same role as it would in a real squad. keep this prospective in mind in your posts thank you.

by suit:
1. the basic heavy should get a base 10% resistance and an increase of 4% resistance per lvl for a max of 30% resistance to small arms fire to shields and armor.

2. the sentinel (and gallente) heavy should get a base 10% resistance and an increase of 5% resistance per lvl for a max of 35% resistance to small arms fire to shields and armor. (in addition to the reload bonus)

3. the caldari heavy should have a base 15% resistance and an increase by 5% resistance to damage to shields per level to a max of 40% resistance to damage taken on shields. (armor only has 15% resistance)

4. the minmintar heavy should havea 15% resistance to damage, with an increase of 5% per lvl for a total of 40% resistance to damage taken to armor. (shields only have 15% resistance) this in addition to the speed bonus minmintars get.

5. the commando should have a base 5% resistance to damage with a 3% increase per lvl to a total of 20% reduced damage to shields and armor.


if you agree put 1+ in your comment

1. ok. so for sentinel its base 10% resistance with 5% damage resistance per lvl, to a max of 35% for damage to sheilds and armor.

2. for basic heavy suit its 10% base resistance with 3% per lvl for a max of 25%. (or 2% per lvl for a max of 20% is also acceptable)

3. for galente suits its 10% base to shields and armor. with 4% increase per lvl a max of 30% for damage to armor only. (the shields stays at a base 10%)

4. for caldari its base 10% resistance to shields and armor. with a 4% increase per lvl to a max of 30% to shields only. (base 10% resistance to armor stays the same.

5. minmintar its a base 15% resistance to shield and armor and a 3% increase per lvl to max of 30% for both shields and armor. (the minmintar have less shields and armor than everyone else. however they have more slots than the other heavies. i dnt want them to be OP, but if the resistance is to low at the beginning you will just lose. still the minmintar heavy is supposed to be fast as well)


the above are in addition to the racial bonuses for the suits such as the amar reload speed, the caldari shield recover (plus 3% shiled recover after shield depletion), minmintar heavies speed bonus (plus 3-5% sprint (or movement) speed bonus per lvl)

this is exactly why i gave the percentages i did. a 10% increase in speed, a 10% increase in turning speed, a 30% resistance to small arms fire, and a buff to an EHP of 1000 is necesary for the heavy to become a competative unit on the battle field.

You guys need to be much more careful with your request now.
The Heavy is in a much better spot, now that the TAR has been balanced.

That said, I don't think passive resistance bonuses are the way to go.

I would say give the Heavies a speed boost.
Give them overall speed just under that of the Amarr medium frame, BUT in exchange for that increased speed they take a hit to their total HP levels, and instead be given ACTIVE armor/shield hardeners.

So basically, they should be somewhat fast and vulnerable in a normal state, but then they get their defense when they activate their hardeners.

Hardeners would have the following penalty:
Shield Hardeners - Increase damage resistance by 60%, but shield recharging is disabled while it's active.
Armor Hardeners - Increase damage resistance by 40%, but movement speed is reduced by 15% while active.

Shield Hardeners would be more resistant to damage and have no movement penalty to better offset their vulnerability to flux grenades.
Armor Hardeners would have a movement penalty and be less resistant to damage, to offset their advantages of being immune to flux grenades, and being able to rep while hardened.

0.02 isk

heavies are pathetically easy to kill right now. i have a freaking free dren suit with no more than 300EHP, a dren AR with no freaking damage mds, and i anihlate heavies. in fact i love finding them so i can hop around them and pwn them. proto, adv, stand i destroy them all. i can jump and straf around them in their face with my dren AR and just put an entire clip into them.
when they are behind cover, i can get headshots on them and then vault thier cover. at long range i beat them, at mid range i beat them and close range i beat them. and this without even lossing my shields. now when i put my complex damage mods on im freaking invincible to heavies in dren assault. if i miss and need to reload, i can easily bunny hop around until i finish reloading, or just run up to the heavy and melee him 3-4 times. i'd say every 1/5 times i encounter a heavy i die. and thats normally because he has teammates.


heavies as i mentioed should still be the slowest, unit on the battle field. but they should not be so exponentially slow that militia gear can take them out.

i am talking about giving the blanket 10% resistance to all heavies and then having a skill in the tree that in creases this default resistance. even for militia heavy suits. this blanket 10% (whiich according to my calculations should actually be higher) is to help offset and therefore balance some of the heavies major draw backs. namely that we are still the slowest moving and turning unit.

because as it stands there is almost no diference between the militia heavy suit and the proto.


the heavy will never be OP as long as its the slowest unit. its easy headshots, and everyone targets the heavy anyway. plus, heavies can't equip equipment, further providing evidence that this iss a heavy ordinance unit, its meant to be anti-vehicle and anti-infantry. period. and its failing in those categories.

So basically, they should be somewhat fast and vulnerable in a normal state, but then they get their defense when they activate their hardeners.

Hardeners would have the following penalty:
Shield Hardeners - Increase damage resistance by 60%, but shield recharging is disabled while it's active.
Armor Hardeners - Increase damage resistance by 40%, but movement speed is reduced by 15% while active.

God this topic keeps getting necro'd. Its a poor idea that doesnt think far enough to how its going to completely unbalnce the heavy to other suits.

If we go by your thinking, Assault suits should get... a bonus to accuracy? logi... some support/agility bonus? Scouts... range bonus, speed?

The heavy is in a good place right now. We already have more tank than anyone else, and devestating weapons. Leave well enough alone. Once the racial suits are out and we have all the vairiables to look at then we can say if changes need to be made.
As it is the basic heavy is solid and dependable. It doesnt need to be broken by adding in whimsical wants from players that can only see what effects themselfs.

just for you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83983&p=6



#102 Posted: 2013.06.05 03:41 | Report | Edited by: BL4CKST4R
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Caldari Logistics NO racial
EHP: 843

Caldari Logistics racial
EHP: 934 <-- holy sh...

Gallente Logistics
EHP: 698

Caldari Assault
EHP: 846

Gallente Assault
EHP: 773

Gallente Assault 6% speed buff
EHP: 828

Gallente Logistics 6% speed buff
EHP: 753

CaLogi NO racial -1 High slot
EHP: 770

_________
Amarr Assault
EHP:811

Amarr Logistics
EHP:736

Minmatar Assault
EHP: 862 <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow...

Minmatar Logistics
EHP: 733 <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules

ovall speed = basically the same



heavy suit EHP basic no mods = 800
with modes proto basic = 1200 speed reduced to almost nill
sentinel = 1300 speed = standing still

overall speed = running is like crouch walking, turning is impossible



explain please how this is in anyway shape or form fair? so this is perfectly acceptable, every other suit can completely out class heavy to the point that they can do everything a heavy can better. they definitely can tank better.

so not only are ARs vastly superior from dps, to range compared to the HMG which is a heavy only weapon; but assault and logi suits can have no penalty to speed and just as much hp as a heavy? and this is totally balanced right? -_-

When are blaster turrets in interior places? Plus, I feel that you should be able to easily facerape the assault given the right circumstances.

If you want to have more EHP, you NEED to have a drawback added/increased to compensate. You can't have your cake and eat it too, no one should (IDK why CCP is letting the TAR scrubs eat it). I really think that the heavy is best off in CQC areas where there is no escaping them despite the fact that they move slower than tectonic plates (which they are much faster than currently and shouldn't be).

Also, I never said it should only be used once every 5 matches, it should be used every match, it is just that you're obviously not seeing the situations which are conducive to having a 2500 EHP (roughly where I think they should be) dropsuit with an HMG at.

It should take an entire squad to take down a heavy, though they should be slow enough that they shouldn't be a viable sole composition for a squad.

Personally, I think it would be cool if we had an option for heavies to "Anchor" similar to POS guns/mods in Eve. Make it so that they are immobile, though they get increases to their turn speed.

As it is now, scrubs still run around in Heavies like they are Assault suits, they shouldn't even have that thought due to the ridiculously slow speed.

Buff Heavy EHP, Nerf Heavy Speed.