DUST Search - The heavy suit should get its shield and and armor hardened by 10% against damage?

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

D legendary hero wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

Master Jaraiya wrote:

drake sadani wrote:

+1
i wanted to try heavy this new build . but seeing all junk that has been done to them . ehh no.
i would even go so far as to say make them useful . or get rid of them CCP
maybe even give them a skill to harden defenses but it should slow them down more.

but really they have no reason to be here anymore unless they get a level shake

Slow them down more? That's crazy talk bro! Heavies are slow enough trust me.

The medium and light classes can walk backwards faster than heavies can sprint! Making us any slower would only further gimp us as a class!

I agree that Heavies could use a boost to EHP, though I also agree that they should be slowed down more.

I think that Heavies should have as much EHP as MLT HAVs though to compensate for this, they need to be as fast as a tree stump. They should be a situational suit that gets dropped off at the point where they are going to be defending and they're not going anywhere else fast without a ride from a blue LAV. I've seen people using Heavies as slightly slower Assault suits and this isn't what they were intended for (IMHO).

Heavies should be the bridge between dropsuits and MTACs and until they have their EHP buffed, they will not properly represent this.

again that is a description of a blaster turret. if its only to be a situational st. i should have to spec over 6 million SP into it. only to use every 5 matches, and get pwnd in my assault set up that has no points in it.

When are blaster turrets in interior places? Plus, I feel that you should be able to easily facerape the assault given the right circumstances.

If you want to have more EHP, you NEED to have a drawback added/increased to compensate. You can't have your cake and eat it too, no one should (IDK why CCP is letting the TAR scrubs eat it). I really think that the heavy is best off in CQC areas where there is no escaping them despite the fact that they move slower than tectonic plates (which they are much faster than currently and shouldn't be).

Also, I never said it should only be used once every 5 matches, it should be used every match, it is just that you're obviously not seeing the situations which are conducive to having a 2500 EHP (roughly where I think they should be) dropsuit with an HMG at.

It should take an entire squad to take down a heavy, though they should be slow enough that they shouldn't be a viable sole composition for a squad.

Personally, I think it would be cool if we had an option for heavies to "Anchor" similar to POS guns/mods in Eve. Make it so that they are immobile, though they get increases to their turn speed.

As it is now, scrubs still run around in Heavies like they are Assault suits, they shouldn't even have that thought due to the ridiculously slow speed.

Buff Heavy EHP, Nerf Heavy Speed.

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D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 149	Posted - 2013.06.11 09:45:00 - [181] - Quote ^^again someone who has absolutely no idea about what the other 176 posts say. if look at the math and stats i posted you will see that i didnt say anything about heavies jumping, or moving around like scouts, i didnt say anything about making them invincible, i didnt say anything to the effect of that. to the contrary the heavy is epicly underpowered and im trying to balance it out. no the weapon is pathetic, the suit is a waste of SP and it needs to be fixed. right now ARs and shield tanking suits can out do a heavy in just about any situation. Caldari assaults and logis can reach as high as 914 EHP thats more than a heavy, with 5x the mobility. equip them with an AR and they are invinciple. because ARs are OP right now and so is sheild tanking. im just trying to balance out the heavy suit against itself. it has low mobility, and turning speed, few slots, and no equipmentso it should have resistance to damage and increase hp. scouts have low hp and low armor so they should get as they do increased mobility, more slots, more cpu/pg and an equipment slot. the scout suit is balanced.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 149	Posted - 2013.06.11 09:59:00 - [182] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: God this topic keeps getting necro'd. Its a poor idea that doesnt think far enough to how its going to completely unbalnce the heavy to other suits. If we go by your thinking, Assault suits should get... a bonus to accuracy? logi... some support/agility bonus? Scouts... range bonus, speed? The heavy is in a good place right now. We already have more tank than anyone else, and devestating weapons. Leave well enough alone. Once the racial suits are out and we have all the vairiables to look at then we can say if changes need to be made. As it is the basic heavy is solid and dependable. It doesnt need to be broken by adding in whimsical wants from players that can only see what effects themselfs. just for you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83983&p=6 #102 Posted: 2013.06.05 03:41 \| Report \| Edited by: BL4CKST4R Like 3 Caldari Logistics NO racial EHP: 843 Caldari Logistics racial EHP: 934 <-- holy sh... Gallente Logistics EHP: 698 Caldari Assault EHP: 846 Gallente Assault EHP: 773 Gallente Assault 6% speed buff EHP: 828 Gallente Logistics 6% speed buff EHP: 753 CaLogi NO racial -1 High slot EHP: 770 _________ Amarr Assault EHP:811 Amarr Logistics EHP:736 Minmatar Assault EHP: 862 <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow... Minmatar Logistics EHP: 733 <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules ovall speed = basically the same heavy suit EHP basic no mods = 800 with modes proto basic = 1200 speed reduced to almost nill sentinel = 1300 speed = standing still overall speed = running is like crouch walking, turning is impossible explain please how this is in anyway shape or form fair? so this is perfectly acceptable, every other suit can completely out class heavy to the point that they can do everything a heavy can better. they definitely can tank better. so not only are ARs vastly superior from dps, to range compared to the HMG which is a heavy only weapon; but assault and logi suits can have no penalty to speed and just as much hp as a heavy? and this is totally balanced right? -_-
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 565	Posted - 2013.06.11 10:56:00 - [183] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: God this topic keeps getting necro'd. Its a poor idea that doesnt think far enough to how its going to completely unbalnce the heavy to other suits. If we go by your thinking, Assault suits should get... a bonus to accuracy? logi... some support/agility bonus? Scouts... range bonus, speed? The heavy is in a good place right now. We already have more tank than anyone else, and devestating weapons. Leave well enough alone. Once the racial suits are out and we have all the vairiables to look at then we can say if changes need to be made. As it is the basic heavy is solid and dependable. It doesnt need to be broken by adding in whimsical wants from players that can only see what effects themselfs. just for you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83983&p=6 #102 Posted: 2013.06.05 03:41 \| Report \| Edited by: BL4CKST4R Like 3 Caldari Logistics NO racial EHP: 843 Caldari Logistics racial EHP: 934 <-- holy sh... Gallente Logistics EHP: 698 Caldari Assault EHP: 846 Gallente Assault EHP: 773 Gallente Assault 6% speed buff EHP: 828 Gallente Logistics 6% speed buff EHP: 753 CaLogi NO racial -1 High slot EHP: 770 _________ Amarr Assault EHP:811 Amarr Logistics EHP:736 Minmatar Assault EHP: 862 <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow... Minmatar Logistics EHP: 733 <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules ovall speed = basically the same heavy suit EHP basic no mods = 800 with modes proto basic = 1200 speed reduced to almost nill sentinel = 1300 speed = standing still overall speed = running is like crouch walking, turning is impossible explain please how this is in anyway shape or form fair? so this is perfectly acceptable, every other suit can completely out class heavy to the point that they can do everything a heavy can better. they definitely can tank better. so not only are ARs vastly superior from dps, to range compared to the HMG which is a heavy only weapon; but assault and logi suits can have no penalty to speed and just as much hp as a heavy? and this is totally balanced right? -_- What the?? most of those fits your oh so proud of either HAVE NO WEAPONS!! have empty slots!!! or are just down right insane! is this what your basing your arguements on???? Your using all lv 5 characters and comparing it to a base heavy Basic (not proto) heavy... MH HMG, 2x complex dmg mods, basic plate, basic armour repair 1000+ hp, A GUN damn i bet i could fit some flux and a side arm on there!!! and NOT at LV 5s
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 157	Posted - 2013.06.11 19:56:00 - [184] - Quote you dnt have to *out the word crap. lol still i rest my case with the above because all those fittings can cary weaponry and i have encountered them and they have killed my heavy suits both basic and proto. and as i have mentioned im no slouche, before i started running into all these proto bears i had a great kd, but as all the prior 177 something posts relate to the heavy is underpowered. case and point. 1000+ ehp is a joke, even in your optimal range i can out gun you with my dren AR w/o damage mods. its hard to miss.thats why i dnt see any proto heavies around. especially when i run assault AR. seriously with a dren assault, and dren AR i can crush proto heavies, and their is nothing they can do about it. mind you i have no SP in ARs. now when i add my damage mods, grenades, etc, there is no hope. when i use my heavy i can cause some damage but its way to difficult to do even mediocre with a heavy suit because its so easily out classed high risk, little reward.
Arcturis Vanguard Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 35	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:20:00 - [185] - Quote My KDR is still increasing running all dren sentinel and proto basic suits with various fittings to suit the situation. Your original percentages were more passable then your changed numbers. 35% max, which includes the base 10% once skilled into would be a far better starting point then your 45%+ resistance. Again, we do not want to break the class by making it a complete juggernaut. We want to improve it with all the shortcomings from last build to this one. A true sentinel suit will be stacking armor plates which restrict their movement speed greatly, this also includes turning speed. With this minor damage resistance, a heavy will be able to keep up with the far superior mobility of the prototype medium and light frames. It could have the potential of bringing relevance to the heavy within planetary conquest, more so then it does now.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits Unclaimed. 157	Posted - 2013.06.12 17:46:00 - [186] - Quote ^^ i did not imply a base 45%+ the max depending on the suit, would higher based on that suits base speed. since sentinel is the slowest, it would get the highest percentage resistance. probably around 45%-. that way it would take two clips from a militia AR to take a sentinel out.* the higher mobility heavy suits would have still the base 10% even the commando, but the max percentage would be lower the faster they are. down to a minimum of 30% resistance. (the commando being the fastest most likely will only have a 25% resistance). that being said. the lower the max resistance the lower the SP requirement should be as well. *footnote: as a heavy you are normally everyone's target and normally and often absorb the most bullets. the sentinel with its low mobility is more susceptible to this effect. giving the sentinel this resistance will help him accomplish his role much better. further, in a one v. one, one clip from a militia AR still does 1860 damage if you subtract the 45% from that it equates to nearly half damage taken which is still 900~ hp damage. if you are armor tanking this is more than half your armor gone. this is possible with a low level AR now, if you factor in head shots at double damage, then you will still die pretty fast. nonetheless you wont be demolished by the ARs instantly.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 163	Posted - 2013.06.14 05:45:00 - [187] - Quote ^^bump
Sean Mcbride Crimson Ravens 1	Posted - 2013.06.14 07:23:00 - [188] - Quote I play a heavy quite often I figure like most others we are not point defense do we need to be faster not sure but I do agree we need the resistance buffs to even make a viable suit. Personally I have never believed in bunny hopping but that comes from real world experience. I am also not sure of the damage buffs I mean when we get our rounds on target we do chew them up. Granted I am still working on getting to sentinel suits with this character and have had to dump all my points into survivablity .but that may be because I am still in basic suits. But one assault riffle unless they have gotten 2 or 3 head shots should not be able to take down a heavy it completely defeats the purpose of the suit in my opinion.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 164	Posted - 2013.06.14 07:29:00 - [189] - Quote the damage of the HMG should be increased to about 20-30 per shot on the STD and higher for the ADV and PROTO. because its role is suppresion and when ppl can ru through may bullets because of low damage its not doing its job. the high dispersion balances it out
Inyanga Strong-Arm 0	Posted - 2013.06.14 07:31:00 - [190] - Quote I still believe that the resistances spoken of should be differentiated between shield and armor. I would hope that Gallente heavies (once introduced) would have better Armor resistance, and Caldari heavies (once introduced) would have better Shield resistance, but any heavy suit should have the option to spec into an optional resistance that suits them, or, if they earn enough sp, both. Just exactly how it is with the passive boost skills for armor and shield, but with resistance (for heavies). That way, no one cries foul that someone put level 3 into basic heavy, and is now "OPnerfnowPLZ" or that it becomes the new Caldari Logistics. It would have to be earned. And no one would cry "my weapon sucks 'cuz I can't kill a heavy with one smg bullet!" Dude's a real-deal heavy: Deal with it/ HTFU.

D legendary hero Strong-Arm 165	Posted - 2013.06.14 12:13:00 - [191] - Quote ^^this sounds cool. (still want my base 10% though.)
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 165	Posted - 2013.06.15 07:45:00 - [192] - Quote bump
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 182	Posted - 2013.06.16 01:47:00 - [193] - Quote bump again. comments suggestions are welcome
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 796	Posted - 2013.06.16 02:42:00 - [194] - Quote Heavies already have much higher base hp (which they pay for with speed issues, limited slots, etc.). The title percentage is way too high in my opinion (30%). Damage resistance kinda makes sense as a heavy-related "skill" though - and if resistance modules were in-game, heavies would be at a disadvantage there to the roles with more slots to some extent. Perhaps they could make a separate "Damage Resistance" skill as a sub skill for Heavy suits. It could vary by suit race (giving Caldari Heavies more shield DR, etc.), but be linked off the actual off dropsuit skill. Like... Gallente Heavy Frame 5 unlocks Gallente Heavy suit Damage Resistance. OR.... maybe it would be unlocked at the end or ADV level for Sentinel specs (Gallente Sentinel 3 to unlock Gallente Sentinel Damage Resistance). They could have skills separate from suit-skills for other frames or specs as well. It could serve as resting place for some of role-skill/bonuses we think would go with the role... but we force people to pay a little extra in SP for the role specialization (things they can't get from modules perhaps). The cost to skill into suits is more or less equal at the moment, so giving heavies a separate skill off the dropsuit tree for damage resist makes for balance sense to me. Otherwise, you can skill into a much more resilient suit that is stronger than others for the same SP, and cheaper because it's strong without modules.
Brutus Va'Khan Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2013.06.16 03:08:00 - [195] - Quote A good heavy can hold his own 1 on 1 as it is, at least (not too) close to mid range against non-protos. I speak from experience (although I only use militia while waiting for Minnie's suit). I do think that heavies need damage resistance. Honestly, I wouldn't mind dropping hp for resistance (as long as ehp stayed more or less the same). I feel like resistance is where heavies should be at, with the way logistics can work with a heavy. Also, heavies are very slow. Maybe this is just me being used to Minmatar stuff but being forced to use the Amarr heavy. Seriously, I feel like a chipmunk on crystal meth when I switch from Amarr heavy to Minmatar suits. That's only medium frame, we get into scout and I'm moving so fast that I have no idea what's going on!
Void Echo Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 177	Posted - 2013.06.16 03:26:00 - [196] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: drake sadani wrote: +1 i wanted to try heavy this new build . but seeing all junk that has been done to them . ehh no. i would even go so far as to say make them useful . or get rid of them CCP maybe even give them a skill to harden defenses but it should slow them down more. but really they have no reason to be here anymore unless they get a level shake Slow them down more? That's crazy talk bro! Heavies are slow enough trust me. The medium and light classes can walk backwards faster than heavies can sprint! Making us any slower would only further gimp us as a class! I agree that Heavies could use a boost to EHP, though I also agree that they should be slowed down more. I think that Heavies should have as much EHP as MLT HAVs though to compensate for this, they need to be as fast as a tree stump. They should be a situational suit that gets dropped off at the point where they are going to be defending and they're not going anywhere else fast without a ride from a blue LAV. I've seen people using Heavies as slightly slower Assault suits and this isn't what they were intended for (IMHO). Heavies should be the bridge between dropsuits and MTACs and until they have their EHP buffed, they will not properly represent this. again that is a description of a blaster turret. if its only to be a situational st. i should have to spec over 6 million SP into it. only to use every 5 matches, and get pwnd in my assault set up that has no points in it. When are blaster turrets in interior places? Plus, I feel that you should be able to easily facerape the assault given the right circumstances. If you want to have more EHP, you NEED to have a drawback added/increased to compensate. You can't have your cake and eat it too, no one should (IDK why CCP is letting the TAR scrubs eat it). I really think that the heavy is best off in CQC areas where there is no escaping them despite the fact that they move slower than tectonic plates (which they are much faster than currently and shouldn't be). Also, I never said it should only be used once every 5 matches, it should be used every match, it is just that you're obviously not seeing the situations which are conducive to having a 2500 EHP (roughly where I think they should be) dropsuit with an HMG at. It should take an entire squad to take down a heavy, though they should be slow enough that they shouldn't be a viable sole composition for a squad. Personally, I think it would be cool if we had an option for heavies to "Anchor" similar to POS guns/mods in Eve. Make it so that they are immobile, though they get increases to their turn speed. As it is now, scrubs still run around in Heavies like they are Assault suits, they shouldn't even have that thought due to the ridiculously slow speed. Buff Heavy EHP, Nerf Heavy Speed. this is an instillation
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 185	Posted - 2013.06.16 04:53:00 - [197] - Quote bump. more ideas keep them comming
Brutus Va'Khan Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 20	Posted - 2013.06.16 16:03:00 - [198] - Quote People who keep saying the heavy needs less speed and more ehp don't know what they're talking about. Anybody closer than a few meters can run circles around a heavy, and the heavy cant even turn fast enough to see what is going on. There are installations that can't move and have plenty of hp. If a heavy cant even move fast enough to sort of keep up with his squad, then we'd be of no use. Unless you're one of those TAR folk that want us to camp behind your back and go 2/0 while you go 20/0. We need our mobility.
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 187	Posted - 2013.06.16 23:58:00 - [199] - Quote indeed. and as stated earlier as long as the heavy is the slowest unit, any buffs to speed would still be balanced. we aren't asking for scout speed, but we should not be 500% slower than a galente assault. having 75% less speed than a scout, and 25% less turn speed would do it. but i think CCP should start with a slight buff, and patch weekly until a good balanced is reached. start by increasing heavies general movement speed by 15% and turn speed by 15%. then, we can asses the progress.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 197	Posted - 2013.06.17 22:50:00 - [200] - Quote bump

D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 199	Posted - 2013.06.17 23:19:00 - [201] - Quote haha you obviously havent speced into heavys, because to start you need to burn over 700,000SP to get weaponry to 5. and get the suit. plus heavy suits have the least CPU/PG out of all suits, how the hell am i going to fit all that **** on a basic heavy suit? lol your a joke. by the time i get 1000 ehp, im moving as fast as molasses durring a snow storm in antartica. yep... plus the HMG aint worth crap right now. a milita AR can out gun an HMG even in it s optimal range, with perfect accuracy no dispersion, with or without a headshot bonus. you need zero SP to use militia AR. with the same SP it takes to get just a standard HMG you can get a proto ARs. so having a militia AR capable of completely out classing proto hmgs is a joke. an d the gap only gets larger when you use higgher grade ARs, and start strafing. especially the 2-step strafe. have you heard of it? thats when someing in an assault suit, or logi suit strafes back and forth in the same spot. with an hmg you cnt hit them. face it the facts midigate your argument. in fact your argument is baselss. raw numbers may look, pretty (omg heavy can have 1000ehp), but even those numbers are contradcited by basic facts, and real factors (militia AR does 1860 damage in one clip with no damage mods, headshots, or skill points in proficiency. not adding the blanket 10% given all weapons, so in less than 2.5~seconds, a single milita Ar missing shots can take out a fully armored proto heavy.)
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 208	Posted - 2013.06.19 06:53:00 - [202] - Quote bump
Ignatius Crumwald IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 585	Posted - 2013.06.19 07:33:00 - [203] - Quote Armor tanking should be about damage resistance.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 217	Posted - 2013.06.19 11:12:00 - [204] - Quote ^^this skill could be applied to galientes too to help them fight sheild tankers. but all heavies must have it. out battle field life expectancy is low
Sean Mcbride Crimson Ravens 1	Posted - 2013.06.21 08:33:00 - [205] - Quote bump
xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN 12	Posted - 2013.06.21 11:52:00 - [206] - Quote Honestly if I could put a HMG on a proto caldari logi I'd leave the heavy suit so fast. Way faster, self rep, equipment, small hit box and still 1000+HP with all the CPU and pg necessary for anything!!! Now that's a suit
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 218	Posted - 2013.06.21 23:17:00 - [207] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: Honestly if I could put a HMG on a proto caldari logi I'd leave the heavy suit so fast. Way faster, self rep, equipment, small hit box and still 1000+HP with all the CPU and pg necessary for anything!!! Now that's a suit AMEN. but you know what they have something better than an HMG, yes you guessed it, ARs and even scrambler rifles. those things have way better accuracy, damage per shot, dps, reload speed, and dispersion than an HMG with almost no draw backs.
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 220	Posted - 2013.06.22 15:03:00 - [208] - Quote bump
D legendary hero One-Armed Bandits 227	Posted - 2013.06.24 10:50:00 - [209] - Quote bump
D legendary hero Strong-Arm 234	Posted - 2013.06.27 13:23:00 - [210] - Quote bump



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