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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
447
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dazereth the 2nd wrote:You people who keep suggesting 100-200k are missing the big picture, That's still less than 1m SP and everyone knows 1m SP is junk.
100k WP is about 100 matches. This is a game mode to teach people the basics, so they're not completely overwhelmed by the vets whilst trying to figure out the system. Once they graduate from the academy system, they should understand the game but this doesn't necessarily mean they should be able to compete with the top players. After 100 matches you should know enough of what you're doing to know how to continue playing. |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
447
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Posted - 2013.05.10 17:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:This is extremely pleasing. Personally I feel that warpoints is an excellent idea. I don't have any significant reason but 300K warpoints sounds like a good number. 300 matches if you managed to hit over around 1k wp per match. More likely you'd end up playing closer to 600 matches for those who obviously need the help more. 300 matches if played over the course of a month without boosters would have you around 2mill sp in my guestimation.
Anyone think KDR should play a part in it? Can we limit it so there are no tanks?
KD should play zero part in this calculation because people playing support roles (logis/AV) would not be counted the at same rate as the frontline troops. |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
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Posted - 2013.05.11 09:51:00 -
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I presume this mechanic using WP means that the stats tracking is planned to be fixed in the next 3 days? Otherwise it's just never going to work. |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
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Posted - 2013.05.11 13:44:00 -
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J Lav wrote:I don't like this idea. I am a low SP player, gotcha, but locking out based on an arbitrary SP amount seems silly to me. It reinforces that SP is broken in this game. the gap between a 4m SP and 8m SP player is absolutely massive regardless of their actual skill.
Question, You have meta levels on equipment, why don't you limit the metal level of a suit instead? Make the max meta level of a suit less than 7-8, for newbies, and when fitting, add up the meta of the components of that fit. Make that number known to the player, so we can build low-level fits to play in those matches. Good players would even see it as a challenge to dumb down their kit and still be able to win based on skill.
CCP didn't say SP; they said WP. Read the OP. It's only players that have been suggesting SP and the dev already said why they chose WP instead of SP (because people get SP passively and haven't necessarily been playing the game much to earn SP). |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
Orion Empire
451
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
ladwar wrote:so im going with LOL... CCP has no clue what they are doing, still.
That's all you've got to say? No better suggestions then? Helpful. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
Orion Empire
451
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Posted - 2013.05.11 15:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Novas The Second wrote:What about averaging the Meta Level of the equipment that the player is using?
That way, even if you're using a proto suit, you might only be using low level weapons or equipment and your average will still be very low.
Also, separate idea. When you get put into the Academy Battles, you automatically get put into a squad and spawned with that squad in the same location together, thereby teaching new players that playing as a team will get you far better results.
That's getting increasingly complex to do it by meta levels and doesn't stop a vet player with loads of passive skill buffs running low meta gear and griefing newbies while they're trying to learn. At least if it's done by WP, vets can't play unless they make a new alt and even then those alts will be low SP and won't last long before hitting the WP cap.
Edit - also the squad idea wold actually be counter productive because players would never learn how to create squads themselves and might just end up assuming that squads are made automatically. |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
451
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Posted - 2013.05.11 16:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:You could just put the gear restriction on the suits themselves. A standard level suit doesn't have much room to play with, which would probably be enough to keep people from abusing high level gear to farm newbies. You could try putting that balac's on a standard level suit, but you'll die the moment something sneezes at you. It's simple enough to explain that they could have Dust's version of Aura on the barge actually explaining that this battle only allows militia and standard level suits, or whatever.
If you made it just a gear based mechanic, vets could still make use of the masses of passive skill buffs they get. WP is the best way of ensuring that the characters genuinely are new. |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:45:00 -
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Deluxe Edition wrote:Django Quik wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:You could just put the gear restriction on the suits themselves. A standard level suit doesn't have much room to play with, which would probably be enough to keep people from abusing high level gear to farm newbies. You could try putting that balac's on a standard level suit, but you'll die the moment something sneezes at you. It's simple enough to explain that they could have Dust's version of Aura on the barge actually explaining that this battle only allows militia and standard level suits, or whatever. If you made it just a gear based mechanic, vets could still make use of the masses of passive skill buffs they get. WP is the best way of ensuring that the characters genuinely are new. The game isn't as much about SP as you think.... top end players not only have a year of experience under their belt, but are able to dominate any random pub match in just militia gear. I'd say talen is 25% Skill Points, 75% actual skill in Dust 514.
Yes but this academy idea is not to get people good at playing the game - it's to give them a safe enough place to get to grips with the basics that you can't learn just from playing other FPSs. This period shouldn't last long, so players that are obviously really good and know what they're doing will get through it really quickly and there will be very little benefit to any vets trying to get an easy ride.
SP and gear restrictions won't give the kind of protection that new players need to get to grips with the basics of this game beyond that of an ordinary FPS. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
Orion Empire
458
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Posted - 2013.05.12 09:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
People need to read this and understand why SP is not being suggested as a metric here by CCP:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:By the way our initial thought based on advice from the CPM is to use total war points not skill points. One the of the problems with skill points is you earn them passively, so if you roll an account and leave it inactive for a while you will eventually end up out of the academy without playing any battles. We feel that war points is a better indicator of actual game experience which also happens to scale with proficiency.
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
Orion Empire
461
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Posted - 2013.05.12 20:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Chojine Dentetsu wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:On Tuesday 14th of May we will be enabling a special instant battle queue for new players called the Instant Battle Academy. Entry to these battles will be limited by total war points earned per character and will prevent older players from joining. New players will not be presented with the existing instant battle queues however they can join a squad with veteran players and be pulled into other battles. Faction warfare and planetary conquest battles will also still be available to new players.
This is a first step at improving the new player experience. We are also working on a vastly improved matchmaking system which is designed to better separate players based on their actual skill level instead of just isolating new players. We will hopefully be rolling that out in an expansion later this year.
You may notice I have not mentioned the exact criteria for being a new player and I am very interested in hearing how many skill points, war points, battles or any other metric you would use to determine what constitutes a "newbie". Remember the goal is to give new players enough time to understand the game not necessarily become proficient at it. So if you have any thoughts on that please reply here. That could work, only with one pitfall, though. Alot of people, including myself only play skirmish, and as such have very low WP, as it is hardly ever recorded unless you win / lose via clone depletion. So would I, with my piddling 1000 WP, but 7 million SP, full proto gear and officer gear be put in with the new guys? If so, it could end up being a bunch of high SP skirmishers stomping new players.
CCP Nullarbor said the following here in relation to your concerns:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Django Quik wrote:With the announcement of the Adademy Battles for new players from 5-14 (2 days time) being limited by a maximum WP level, it is more imperative than ever that skirmish stats are tracked, otherwise players will be stuck there much longer than really necessary.
We have heard nothing on this problem for some time and an update on the situation would be greatly appreciated. I am going to follow this up, I saw a fix go in this week for what looked like that problem but I'm not sure when it will be deployed. Suffice to say yes the war points will need to be updated correctly for the Academy queue to work.
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
Orion Empire
466
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Posted - 2013.05.13 08:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:War points is a good starting point, but I think allocated SP will need to be used as well. The reasoning behind this is that a veteran could easily let an avatar sit for some time just to accrue SP, then go Proto, while technically having acquired no WP. They would still deeply unbalance the new player experience.
To go proto through only passive SP would take roughly 7 months of waiting using passive boosters the entire time. That's almost a year without boosters. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
Orion Empire
466
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Posted - 2013.05.13 10:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Good news ! Especially the part regarding working on a more strict matchmaking based on SP.
Until then, a tighten playerbase for new players doesnt sound like a bad idea. Just be very informative about it in game ! Maybe add a new screen tutorial when first launching the battle finder. And an auto in game email when a player is over the WP limit for playing this Instant Battle Academy.
Oh and another question,may have been asked already though : A new player can join a squad of vets and go into regular instant battles. Does it work the other way around ? Can a 100% noob create a squad, invite 5 proto and take them into Academy fights ? IF yes, then this is not going to work.... Worse it could end up with even worse stomping than we have now.
Was answered somewhere earlier but no, that can't happen. The non-newbies won't be able to join a newbie led squad. |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
469
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Django Quik wrote:Buster Friently wrote:War points is a good starting point, but I think allocated SP will need to be used as well. The reasoning behind this is that a veteran could easily let an avatar sit for some time just to accrue SP, then go Proto, while technically having acquired no WP. They would still deeply unbalance the new player experience. To go proto through only passive SP would take roughly 7 months of waiting using passive boosters the entire time. That's almost a year without boosters. So? It's completely free. Also, they don't have wait all the way to Proto to be disruptive, and don't underestimate the desire of the internet scum to grief on new players.
Just saying really. If you have to wait 7 months (or even just 4 months or something) just to grief some newbies for a short period before your griefing character gets too much WP, that's a pretty big turn off and only the most dedicated griefers will bother.
WP is the only accurate measure of how long a character has been actually playing the game, rather than just accruing SP. You can't boost WP, so there's no two tier system at work there. If you really really wanted to grief, you would always find a way but by using WP, effective griefing will earn lots of WP and quickly eject the griefers out of the academy matches.
Furthermore, WP is a good measure of players' understanding of the game - you only earn WP by doing the right things in games (killing, hacking, supporting). By the time you've reached 100,000 WP, there should be very little about the basics of this game that you don't understand. Good players will easily get 1,000 WP a match but those just starting out and still learning will only be getting a few hundred, meaning they spend longer in the academy and have more time to learn before being thrown to the wolves. |
Django Quik
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Orion Empire
475
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Posted - 2013.05.14 13:24:00 -
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How is it possible that with over 400,000 WP I've gotten access to the battle academy? |
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