"THE GAME IS STILL IN BETA" is the worst excuse to argue a bad gameplay. Because there is problemes from the first build that you can see all the time. For example: "hands bug". They don't have a "central idea" because if people start crying about something, they change the whole entire game. People cry about the AR, and they change everything. You are playing in the 50000000000000 DC and you still use iron sights. Really?

Yes, the game still in beta. It will be in beta forever

Reframe the question:

Under what circumstances DOES it make sense to use protogear?

DUST DOESN'T REWARD BASED OFF OF PERFORMANCE. EVERYBODY BASICALLY GETS THE SAME AMOUNT OF ISK+SP PER MATCH.


it's ridiculous at that.

Stuff

While we talk about math, I also want a clarification on the numbers thrown out by CCP and forum people. 500k EVE subscriptions reached this last year right? And somebody said 60k ''playing'' DUST. Is that right?

Lets try to get a clarification from the self-righteous experts. Is that 500k subscribers, 500k CURRENTLY playing and subscribing? Or. is that 500k, 250k CURRENTLY subscribing and 250k that cancelled because they had more exciting and competitive things to do for 10 years? Either way, how great is 500k over 10 years? Must be some really intense stuff seeing as how EVERYBODY knew about it BEFORE Dust and knew about the closed beta.

If 60k is the right # for dust, then that is 60k toons created. It sure as hell isn't 60k actually ''playing''. Out of that 60k, how many do not play because of bad battle dynamics, inferior mechanics, questionable fairness/unfairness of the token economy, bad spawn fundamentals, easy exploitation of glitches/weaknesses, etc. etc. etc.? All these numbers need some solid backing. Agreed?

I get 1500+ WP, 300k isk EVERY MATCH with ZERO kills. The players who do the most for their team makes the most! Unless you get 40+ kills, you wont top my pay! Also I run 100% BPO's and still get about 11 kills a match!

Why should two players with equal KDR and Warpoints/Death ratio receive *significantly* different margins? It's just like MCC AFKing, the reward for showing up is dwarfing the reward for doing well.

Because they are using significantly different gear.

The reward for "showing up" is "dwarfing" the reward for "doing well" because the reward itself is teeny tiny... Because we're beta testing in the new player starting area. In new player areas it's not uncommon for everyone to get a reward for participation, that's how you help new players get their feet under them. The only mistake being made, is taking gear worth as much as the battle rewards into the fight in the first place, and then expecting to make a profit.

If we get into faction warfare and the payouts aren't considerably higher, and the winners don't get the majority of the winnings... THEN I will agree that there's a problem. Assuming most winnings go to the team that WINS in FW, going AFK will put your team at a big disadvantage and make them much less likely to win, thus minimizing the sort of gains that can be made by AFKing in the first place. Heck, if a player loses enough in FW he might even have to slink back to instant battles with his tail between his legs for awhile, throw on some militia fits, and pull in some participation ISK until he has enough to head back out and take another shot at a real match again.

But instant battles are working precisely as intended as far as I can tell and need absolutely no changes made to them. You barely make enough in an instant battle to buy a set of protogear for a reason, the new player area isn't FOR protogear.

its elementary school here

your going to get rewarded for showing up, everyone gets a ribbon

do well.. well you get a slightly better ribbon but not by much because then the people with the I participated ribbon would feel bad


I feel you almighty but lets be honest your pretty much stealing candy from babies why do you need a weapon in hte first place just go melee them all

I believe you are missing the entire point of this thread. Using the EXACT same fit, a player who does 1/3 of everything (deaths, WP, kills, etc, EVERYTHING identical by a factor of 1/3) makes ISK, while the "aggressive" player who does everything the same but three times as much loses a significant sum. It has nothing to do with the value of an individual suit, and everything to do with the rewards being disassociated from performance.

I believe you are missing the entire point of this thread. Using the EXACT same fit, a player who does 1/3 of everything (deaths, WP, kills, etc, EVERYTHING identical by a factor of 1/3) makes ISK, while the "aggressive" player who does everything the same but three times as much loses a significant sum. It has nothing to do with the value of an individual suit, and everything to do with the rewards being disassociated from performance.

But again, you're judging the performance on the wrong metrics. The person who dies less, performs better. If you'd like to argue that this performance metric should be changed, then make your case, but so far the argument over which performance metrics to favor have been entirely arbitrary.

Just saying that doing the same actions, in the same fit, the RATE is more important than the performance, because the payment in too heavily skewed towards just attending. Said another way, profit is how many matches you grind, not how well you do. You also can't call it a "beginner area" when it's all we have.

Crush you in game later kthxbai.

Ok fine. We'll see after the launch. As it is now, the only options anyone has are pub matches and contracts. I realize this is about to change. IDK what anyone else has been playing or what neighborhood they have been building in, but the competing builders are using luxury tools ALL OVER the place in the projects.

I'm not entirely opposed to what you guys are saying, and I am definitely not opposed to risk v. reward. But look at tanks in pub matches. Heres a builder who who brought in a crane to erect a single-wide trailer....And he's going to walk away with buku chips if he is good at running and hiding(taking smoke breaks) and/or there is no skilled opposition. (not to mention the cheap spawn camp kills)

Variety of weapons - great. Depth of the skill system - great. Being rewarded for quality of work done on the job - Great.
Not profiting because you invested early on in tools for building foundations while a guy with a crane USUALLY builds nothing and gets paid more for less work - worthless.

Bottom line....Mercs need a UNION.

Reframe the question:

Under what circumstances DOES it make sense to use protogear?