We agreed on no such thing. It's rarely profitable IN HIGH SEC INSTANT BATTLE TRAINING MATCHES.

So you believe prototype gear is designed around PC? Where isk efficiency is even MORE important? 8M/day split amonst 16 players is 500k each. That's barely above a pub match and doesn't count the extra logistics costs. It doesn't add up anywhere. If the increase in risk is higher than the increase in reward, it is better to reduce your risk and take more chances instead. And that is exactly what we find is effective in DUST. It is pointed out as a problem because that devalues the investment in suits and reduces variety in fits.

And what is the 8 mil ISK number you are quoting me?

Your extreme ignorance is showing. We are talking economics here. Your contribution of HTFU is useless, and furthermore applied at the wrong person.

Gear costs money. Use expensive gear and die, make less money. A player needs to be able to look at the payout available for a particular match and figure out how much ISK to risk in the battle. Don't bring a suit into a training match that costs more than you'll make for winning the match, and then act surprised when you end up ISK negative. Sure cost/reward doesn't scale on a 1:1 basis, but no one is making any compelling arguments for why it SHOULD beyond "I want to use prototype gear all the time, even in high sec space against noobs learning to play the game".

It's funny that my quote can be in there and you can still say what you say.

In my tank, 800k isk currently, I can keep it alive long enough to make a decent profit on it. usually about 8 games per tank now.

So in a game where I don't lose a tank (which is most games), I make about 250k. Unless its one of those random games where I actually make good money for no real reason I can discern.

So, dying ZERO times with good/great WP, I can make 250k.

Or I could, and stay with me now, idle in the base for the same god damn isk. It has nothing to do with how much I spend in isk per match, it has to do with there's not a good enough way to increase isk per match to warrant not AFKing for money.

SSC

It's funny that my quote can be in there and you can still say what you say.

In my tank, 800k isk currently, I can keep it alive long enough to make a decent profit on it. usually about 8 games per tank now.

So in a game where I don't lose a tank (which is most games), I make about 250k. Unless its one of those random games where I actually make good money for no real reason I can discern.

So, dying ZERO times with good/great WP, I can make 250k.

Or I could, and stay with me now, idle in the base for the same god damn isk. It has nothing to do with how much I spend in isk per match, it has to do with there's not a good enough way to increase isk per match to warrant not AFKing for money.

Again, this is basing all calculations off of pubstomping in high sec instant battles. If instant battles are where players who have access to proto gear are hanging out, this game is ****** before it gets started and your AFK concerns are the least of our worries.

That's not the point. To be long term profitable, the increase in reward has to at LEAST match the increase in risk. Simplest example is doubling down. 2x risk, 2x reward. It may be balanced, but is completely counter-intuitive to have infinite run gear not profitable for even a small niche of players.

You brought that tank to WIN, to SP farm, and/or maybe patch up your KDR, not to gain ISK.

Amen, I only aim to please

Always good to remember that it-¦s not only at scenes that we meet =)

Okay, what is winning in DUST? More ISK.

>Make a stupid argument.
>get called out on it.
>change subject.


As expected from your corp.

It has nothing to do with how expensive your fit is. It has EVERYTHING to do with there is no reward for playing well. There's actually more reward for not playing at all.

OH WOW THIS IS A PROBLEM?!

run cheaper gear problem solved.

Exactly. I brought my best fit to WIN. To earn hardcore WP. I didn't die in it. I did fantastic.


If I wanted to make MONEY I should just sit afk in the MCC.


Do you see why this is stupid as hell?

I'm still pretty new, but it's enjoyable. More enjoyable than this thread, that's for sure

Hope you-¦re not a "50 shades of Grey" enthusiast! It would be akin to the forum posters =p

DUST DOESN'T REWARD BASED OFF OF PERFORMANCE. EVERYBODY BASICALLY GETS THE SAME AMOUNT OF ISK+SP PER MATCH.


it's ridiculous at that.

Reread the OP, this isn't the argument.

The OP is arguing that dying more shouldn't COST more.

Running cheaper gear doesn't SOLVE anything. Its just a way around what was obviously flawed about the economics in this build. Having to run cheaper gear to make a profit defeats the purpose of 'leveling up'. It also is not conducive to WINNING the battle which is ALSO supposed to net a profit of some kind is it not?

However, I disagree with the OP that the system is a noob feeder. If the current system was a noob feeder, why do the noobs not stick around? (several reasons)

OP is running Protos and performing well and not making any real ISK. That's not 'leveling up' and makes no sense if the goal is to 'level up' and get better. Personally, I do good, bad, and ugly (not in that order) but I have broke almost even overall.I do pretty decent in WP seeing as how I run AA a lot. I run infantry 99% of the time and found that around the time all/most of my gear was meta level 3, I had to alter a lot of my fits to make any money.

I guess one can argue that if one is breaking even in k/d, then they should break even in ISK. By that logic, the ones going 3-10, 4-8, 9-15, 14-20 will/should operate at a loss. This is whether or not they win or lose once they are using upper-advanced gear.

The way it has been, as the OP said, one can be performing well and not profit without using cheap gear. If that is the way it is supposed to be, where is anyone's, at any level's, incentive to 'level up'?

What's the purpose of leveling up (to maybe try and improve k.d) if one can't afford to fight in the gear that they skilled up in? Now is a situation where one is forced to choose to either run free/cheaper gear until they can skill a good tank, hide with their good tank or good gear constantly, AFK, or play something else.

We will see how the new build changes the economics of ISK and SP. Running cheaper gear is not a solution to the problem. One should never have to run their free/cheap gear unless they are at that SP level or they are true 'starters'. Or unless they of course ran out of good fittings in the fight in which case maybe they don't deserve to profit in that round.

Reread the OP, this isn't the argument.

The OP is arguing that dying more shouldn't COST more.