Sounds like an awesome plan but will people who aren't on the council be able to vote?

Sounds like an awesome plan but will people who aren't on the council be able to vote?

Will the Dust community as a whole be voting on the final representation for the beta version of the council?

Looking forward to this! :D Having a good solid way to communicate with you guys is really helpful.

Any idea when we will know who is on or tentatively on the War Council?

Congratulations Iron Wolf Saber.

I was indeed wondering how DUST players would be adequately represented on the CSM. So I find it a great idea that you guys are going to give DUST their own group right off the bat.

Will the CSM and the War Council eventually meet together? I would like to feel confident that both groups will interact heavily in ensuring the game heads in a direction that is as conjoined together as I want to see it in the future.

I'm CCP Dolan

Any idea when we will know who is on or tentatively on the War Council?

We had some difficulty trying to decide how voting would work in a free-to-play game, where you can have unlimited accounts. We will be working with the War Council and the community to try and shape what elections will look like in the future.

How are members of this council being chosen? I know in your thread that you said it was based on player commitment and helpfulness but those are subjective things at best. I mean not to say anything derisive of this as I think such a system is wonderful and I am quite excited to have such a system in place. CCP's involvement with the player base is one of the big pulls towards CCP games for me. My only concern/question is how will the devs/mods or whoever is doing the chosing insure that the members of the council are not biased towards specific players or groups and or how will the selection process be non-biased if that is possible at all?

Will we have at least a representative for each language? I would feel better if we could talk to our representatives in our language and then he or she can report in english in the council

But i guess spanish, chinese, german, french and english would be pretty good for starter.

The whole thing is good news ! It is through that kind of interactions with the community that CCP makes a difference with your usual game dev. So witnessing the birth of a Dust 514 CSM is a very very very good thing.

I get the whole handpick thing as the mecanics behind voting for a Dust CSM has to be entirely build from scratch due to the F2P nature and the fact that well.....no one did that before.

One thing i would support though is the remark i quote from shaman oga. Even though, it would a hell of a huge council if you would have to add one representative per language. But i guess spanish, chinese, german, french and english would be pretty good for starter.

It's kind of difficult to accomodate every language but yes i think ligua fracas are the way to go. Using common languages that are spoken across many regions along with using translation services (not sure how well google translate works) is the best way to get good representation across the greatest number of ppl.


A great criteria would be to find representatives who have multi-language fluency so they can communicate to a wider audience without creating an overtly large and bloated council. Keep in mind though once this thing goes player elected council it may be difficult to accomodate non-english speakers as i imagine the english speaking population will have a large majority.

Hopefully CCP will figure out a way to decrease the communication gap.

Soon(TM)

Did you seriously need to ask?

Look for a Dev Blog announcing the full War Council some time before the end of the month.

CPM

Council of Planetary Management.

Just a (really obvious) possibility.
Clear similarity and difference from CSM, and still easily typed. It's also a good way to describe what the difference is between DUST Mercs and EVE Capsuleers in New Eden. They claim the stars, we have the planets.

What kind of things war council will vote and decide,and will it be balanced with all corporations.are factions kept out of council votes,will there be spokes person in every corporation,and will the bigger corps(bigger member count)get more says in votes?

What kind of things war council will vote and decide,and will it be balanced with all corporations.are factions kept out of council votes,will there be spokes person in every corporation,and will the bigger corps(bigger member count)get more says in votes?

While the exact details of operation are something we are looking to figure out with the Beta of a War Council, if the CSM is any indication of how the War Council will operate then there will be almost no voting involved at all. The CSM in their year long term only ever voted to pick their officers.

The War Council, like the CSM, will likely act as an advisory group to development teams. They highlight issues and problems that teams may have overlooked. Teams would come to them with features and changes and say "What have we missed?" or "How would you potentially break this?".

Name already is being used. CaptainAwesome, me and a few others have already been discussing this.
CaptainAwesome has set up a site here.
There is also a Google Docs set for goals here

I was seriously considering searching before making the suggestion. Now I wish I had.

Council for Mercenary Management?

Again, simple, but seems logical enough.

While it seems a good idea on paper the method of picking these ppl do not

Why cant you let ppl who want to be on the war council compete for it, so you make a sub forum and just say for 2 weeks anyone who wants to put forward ther name does so and states why they would be good and what they would campaign for

Basically and election but no one votes and only CCP picks the winners, but also CCP would have access to ther posts and to see if they are full of **** or not

Also you could add rules like only max 2 reps from each corp

I had the same thought.

Sounds very interesting and very promising, its a feature I know many of the players have been pushing for for some time now.

My only word of advice is to try to avoid having all of your candidates be from major organizations, or just people who post a lot on the forums. There are a lot of players out there from some of the massive corps that like to showboat around on the forums, playing themselves off as a fantastic community members when really they're just trying to draw up community support with a silver tongue and little work behind their words to back it up.

There are plenty of people I've seen around that quietly work to support this game by doing hard and good work that is sometimes left unnoticed by the masses, but is nevertheless invaluable to the community in the long run. It would be a shame for CCP to also let this work go unnoticed, because it really is important and will allow this game to survive and thrive. Because of that, the people working on this stuff really should be the ones on the council because they're more interested in the quality of the game and not just their own personal or corporate interests.

Luckily, we already have access to the posting history of all our internal candidates. We have vetted a number of candidates that were suggested to us and we have reviewed their forum posting history along with a number of other qualifications in order to be sure they live up to the standards we are setting for the beta War Council.

Sounds very interesting and very promising, its a feature I know many of the players have been pushing for for some time now.

My only word of advice is to try to avoid having all of your candidates be from major organizations, or just people who post a lot on the forums. There are a lot of players out there from some of the massive corps that like to showboat around on the forums, playing themselves off as a fantastic community members when really they're just trying to draw up community support with a silver tongue and little work behind their words to back it up.

There are plenty of people I've seen around that quietly work to support this game by doing hard and good work that is sometimes left unnoticed by the masses, but is nevertheless invaluable to the community in the long run. It would be a shame for CCP to also let this work go unnoticed, because it really is important and will allow this game to survive and thrive. Because of that, the people working on this stuff really should be the ones on the council because they're more interested in the quality of the game and not just their own personal or corporate interests.

Well good luck with it then

Expect a backlash if the wrong ppl get picked tho

+1 for this. This isn't about the epeen.

Unfortunately many of the people who would probably get picked by the community really have no right to be representing the players of this game. I mean we have people who have already been running active campaigns to be elected for something like this, instead of actually spending time working on material and helping players learn and enjoy the game better.

Humility speaks volumes, and its a lesson a vast number of players in this game should learn.

Can the councils first point of order be bringing in a send to corp email function.

My life would be soooooo much easier with it.

Corp functions in general.

And a clock, a kittening clock.

Set your PS3 to GMT 0 and your sorted.

I believe they have already looked at players for this council and are doing interviews. They already have the data they need, you should be chosen by your merits, not your ability to woo the crowd. +1

How will we know who is on it? How could we put in a recommendation to be picked?

How will we know who is on it? How could we put in a recommendation to be picked?

Look for a Dev Blog announcing the full War Council some time before the end of the month.

I had the same thought.

Greetings DUST 514 Community,

For those of you that don't know me, I'm CCP Dolan, and I run the EVE Online Council of Stellar Management (CSM). We at CCP have been looking into creating a similar group for DUST 514.

We came to the conclusion that the best group of people to help design the future of this player run organization, which we have yet to officially name, was the players themselves.

I have asked the DUST 514 Development and Community Teams to submit to me a list of some of the most helpful, active, and knowledgeable community members. Representatives from the DUST 514 teams and I will be sitting down and interviewing these candidates to try and identify the best fits for what we will be tentatively calling the DUST 514 War Council (until we come up with a permanent name). We will then be looking at all of these interviews and selecting a council to make up the very first beta version of the War Council.

This appointed council will work closely with us in establishing a voting system, working with teams regarding upcoming features, and generally serving a similar role to the EVE Online CSM.

As this is a beta version of the council, we ask the community as a whole to be tolerant with any growing pains that the council will no doubt experience.

More details about term length, possible summits, council size, etc. will be announced soon. We hope that both the CSM and the War Council can work together towards making the EVE Universe the best it possibly can be.

Please feel free to ask any questions or provide feedback in this thread.

Nope, I vote for Cerebral Wolf or dent308. The rest of these people were doing this first with questionable motives. I really don't trust anybody else, and you shouldn't either. Remember, these people tried to do this themselves to get free trips to Iceland.

Luckily, we already have access to the posting history of all our internal candidates. We have vetted a number of candidates that were suggested to us and we have reviewed their forum posting history along with a number of other qualifications in order to be sure they live up to the standards we are setting for the beta War Council.

Can the councils first point of order be bringing in a send to corp email function.

My life would be soooooo much easier with it.

So just to be clear: there is not opportunity to do anything from today that could bring any individuals into consideration?

I.E. It's too late to be considered for interview for the WC?

Yes, we didn't want there to be a whole lot of politics surrounding this beta selection. We will however, likely have the full blown political campaigns seen in the EVE CSM upon the election of the first Full-Term Council.

We had some difficulty trying to decide how voting would work in a free-to-play game, where you can have unlimited accounts. We will be working with the War Council and the community to try and shape what elections will look like in the future.

What's the chances of the beta council being ported over to the first "real" council?

Also, how much of this announcement has to do with me kicking dust in the CPM's eyes and CSM candidates eyes over the last week or two?

probably none :p

Good things to come that's for sure, can't wait to see who they pick.

No word about how many will be chosen? A best guess is fine don't need an exact number.

I could see one of them being the winner of the fan challenge, whoever put it together from the Warravens. I have a few other individuals that come to mind.

In that case I will toss my hat in the ring.

Idk, as long as none of the participants of that CPM issue a few week ago get picked. Those people were trying to gain something tangible from that venture. I think the community wouldn't appreciate CCP picking any of those Mercs, it's just rewarding bad behavior.

go for it :) but it would be nice to see some of the CEOs going for it too :)

lol I am no CEO, I think this will be as much as I can be involved. I dont have the time or desire the political kitten when it goes live.

I think I have *some* common sense and as an average player can give advice and views that are needed.

a decent WC member will probably have the time, energy and interest to invest into the role, people like ironwolf, nova knife, kain spero... people that have done something for the game - whether they can point a reticule and press fire or not is a pretty stupid reason why they should be there.

Those that have given value to the game deserve the shot imho :) but there's no time like the present to show you're worth it

I don't think Nova was involved in the CPM mess you guys started. But, as for the rest hell no. You guys tried to gain something from CCP, and after you got caught then it became a community site. Please, remove your stain from these boards, your credibility is shot with our community.

To all those who have already been selected (whether you know it or not), congratulations! We're behind you! (in a good way, not with a nova knife or anything )

Seriously, I'm very jealous of this first WC and its free trip to Fanfest (the timing can't be a coincidence). You'll have earned it. Deciding how a representational democratic body will work with a free-to-play, sign up as often as you want, virtually-central, globally distributed voting body is going to be a big, sweaty, cold-pizza-in-a-conference room kind of job.

Actually, now that I think about it, you should outsource it to the Goons. The security system that they've implemented just to get on their voice chat system should easily be able to handle sorting out individual players. I think that the current "record a sample of your voice for the polygraph and hold up your thumb to the webcam for a fingerprint" system should do it.

That stuff's meant to be classified...

that's a load of pants. the site and everything with it was setup to help make this issue easier. it was the community dwelling on the name that kicked up the fuss, which in itself was nonsense.

Kain helped create community events
ironwolf has always posted on these forums and is respected by a lot
nova again.

I'm not saying names because they were part of the initial idea as you noticed with nova -_- they are people who have positively contributed to the community.

you could turn your fail to epic fail if you want to say "oh you voted an imperfect - how convenient!"

As said before good luck with working out a worldwide voting system. You would need some means of validating a players identity to avoid all the alts.

Perhaps IP address can be used in the first sweep so you can clear all those with only one account and they are the only player in that household.

Next stage is checking those who failed the initial IP address check for legitimate reasons e.g. Other members of the family play the game. For them you could look at activity, if card payments have been made etc

Whatever you do it is gonna be tough.

However, once you have determined your criteria I think that those players you have determined as eligible to vote should be issued a unique number which they enter into the computer to vote. I also think that the future voting system should be integrated into the game I.e a new tab that is active for votes like the War Council but could be used for other things internal to each corp.

I have e-mailed all of the selected players using their registered PSN e-mail addresses. Tomorrow, I will send an eve-mail to all those who have not responded to ensure that their registered e-mail address is still actively monitored.

a decent WC member will probably have the time, energy and interest to invest into the role, people like ironwolf, nova knife, kain spero... people that have done something for the game - whether they can point a reticule and press fire or not is a pretty stupid reason why they should be there.

Those that have given value to the game deserve the shot imho :) but there's no time like the present to show you're worth it

that's a load of pants. the site and everything with it was setup to help make this issue easier. it was the community dwelling on the name that kicked up the fuss, which in itself was nonsense.

Kain helped create community events
ironwolf has always posted on these forums and is respected by a lot
nova again.

I'm not saying names because they were part of the initial idea as you noticed with nova -_- they are people who have positively contributed to the community.

you could turn your fail to epic fail if you want to say "oh you voted an imperfect - how convenient!"

QFT

Their drive to progress the community and the game is what is important in a representative.

IWS has been here almost every day for longer than almost anyone helping people out in these forums.

Kain has been a huge part of organizing the community for events and testing, as well as contributing constructive forum posts for a long time now.

And.... I can't say I know Nova.... is that short for something?

Anyway, there seems to have been some CPM issue a few weeks back? Did I miss something while I was away? O.O

I have e-mailed all of the selected players using their registered PSN e-mail addresses. Tomorrow, I will send an eve-mail to all those who have not responded to ensure that their registered e-mail address is still actively monitored.

I have e-mailed all of the selected players using their registered PSN e-mail addresses. Tomorrow, I will send an eve-mail to all those who have not responded to ensure that their registered e-mail address is still actively monitored.

If they don't reply what do you plan to do? Pick more form the community or just run without them?

funny how my post dissappeared. is it bad to ask for bigger squads or to attleast have the ability to have multiple squads on the same map? Or to ask for the ability to resell useless gear n weapons?

If they don't reply what do you plan to do? Pick more form the community or just run without them?

You can literally FEEL the heat from the drool dripping off of this wolf's fangs.

I'll just continue without them. I will do all I can to get in contact with everyone on my list, but I easily have enough people to form a War Council.

Greetings DUST 514 Community,

For those of you that don't know me, I'm CCP Dolan, and I run the EVE Online Council of Stellar Management (CSM). We at CCP have been looking into creating a similar group for DUST 514.

We came to the conclusion that the best group of people to help design the future of this player run organization, which we have yet to officially name, was the players themselves.

I have asked the DUST 514 Development and Community Teams to submit to me a list of some of the most helpful, active, and knowledgeable community members.

Representatives from the DUST 514 teams and I will be sitting down and interviewing these candidates to try and identify the best fits for what we will be tentatively calling the DUST 514 War Council (until we come up with a permanent name). We will then be looking at all of these interviews and selecting a council to make up the very first beta version of the War Council.

This appointed council will work closely with us in establishing a voting system,

How will these players be contacted ???

I have e-mailed all of the selected players using their registered PSN e-mail addresses. Tomorrow, I will send an eve-mail to all those who have not responded to ensure that their registered e-mail address is still actively monitored.

We had some difficulty trying to decide how voting would work in a free-to-play game, where you can have unlimited accounts. We will be working with the War Council and the community to try and shape what elections will look like in the future.

So I take it the limit to 1 account per "person" has been re-written to one account per PSN account?

As to voting, would it be possible to create a voting system based on the MAC address of the Playstation? The hardware will have a unique code that can only be found once on the entire planet so I believe it would make logical sense to use it as the identifier that the votes would be cast by. Kind of like your driver's licence, the unique ID registering to vote would get one vote available when the "Poll" opens through an update to Dust and allow the user to cast their vote only once.

ie:

if voted==true:
load Dust()
else:
load Poll(MAC Address)

This could be a hardcoded booleen value file attached to the program itself through the update or could just send CCP the mac address that the vote belongs to and invalidate any voting after the first ballot cast. CCP could then ascertain if a person is attempting to vote more than once. This could cause a bit of grief to some users who share Playstations due to a lack of the ability to cast more than one vote, but would ensure that unless a person has more than one PS and more than one account, they wouldn't be able to vote more than once.

That don't take into account situations that a person can have multipple PS3's and PSN accounts.

Translation Were are not going to give you a CSM

Translation:We will pick our favorites this wont be Democratic at allTranslation:This is all misdirection and smoke and mirrors because like we already said your not as important to us as EVE players not only that those people give us enough headaches and we dont want that from you guys.

All though we have never put anything to a vote until we saw the player count drop when we had our brainy Idea of going to a daily SP cap.Which only Wang had the for site to see that that would've been a major catastrophe.

working with teams regarding upcoming features, and generally serving a similar role to the EVE Online CSM.


Awesome(sarcasm) we get no CSM .....thats what I read

My biggest question here is are these players representing all aspects of the game? We have players like Iron Wolf or Nova Knife who work with the community as a whole which is good. But there representation of a vehicle player or a assault ground pounder will vary from that of the majority in those areas. I have a feeling if your council lacks dedicated players to each area of game play it could end up being counter productive.

As a avid vehicle player myself I know they're very few outspoken vehicle users who are well known through out the community. This brings up a concern that did you guys get representation in this area. To me I personally want someone who will support vehicle game play and also I want someone who is driven to make a better balance for this type of game play.

I am sure any other type of player can agree that it is important to see players on the council who support there style of play weather it is a ground pounder or a logi backing him up. I just used vehicle's as a example because that is where I have dedicated my time into.

You do not need to have players from each single area. Someone can have multiple backgrounds, they just need to understand that type of game play well or understand community relations well. I know you want to cover areas outside of game play to. AKA your lore and community activities. Which is equally important for this game.

Thanks listening to my concerns,

Caeli

Would love to be apart of the War Council if of course the community and the DEV's think I am worthy of this awesome title. Built a corp from nothing and have grown to become a loving CEO but cruel punish-er of those that oppress me.

Might also be the tank pilot who kill them all till there were none.

In the Top 100 corps so let the decisions begin!

Would love to be apart of the War Council if of course the community and the DEV's think I am worthy of this awesome title. Built a corp from nothing and have grown to become a loving CEO but cruel punish-er of those that oppress me.

Might also be the tank pilot who kill them all till there were none.

In the Top 100 corps so let the decisions begin!

Considering that I on a regular basis have more than one PS3 in my house at a time I understand your concern, but consider the fact that some of us go to college and may share IP addresses with others in a dorm or office, the one vote per PS3 still makes sense to me. The alternative being the honor system or using the one vote per IP system, I still favor MAC address as being the best way. The main reason being that say party A has a Dynamic IP address and votes at X time. Logs off. Gets his or her Dynamic IP reset by his or her ISP. Votes again. See that still sounds like a bad situation. One vote per PSN ID would amount to whoever can make the highest number of PSN IDs wins. Where would the fairness in that be?

A MAC address seems, to me, the best way sir. It is unique. If it means that much to someone that they feel they need to cheat the system and buy PS3s to do it then CCP has succeeded in creating one of the most popular games in the world and I am happy for them. I enjoy Dust, I hope everyone else playing enjoys it as much as myself and hate to think that those people would want to ruin a good thing like player representation by foolishly vote tampering.

Perhaps Playstation could help us in this by verifying that the PS3 IDs voting don't belong to the same named individual, considering they do, I believe have access to their records and the IDs when created ask for your name, address etc. it would be easy for them to single out who has voted twice or three times or once.

You've checked everything they've ever posted on the forums? That seems a little much.

Than you shall be delighted to know that all chat logs per character are recorded as well, and completely fair game for "vetting" prospective War Council representatives.

I am uneasy with CCP picking the people to represent the player base. Whats to stop them picking people who have agrred with everything they have done and just using them as puppets?

Having CCP pick the war council may look good on paper but its a bad idea.

Luckily, we already have access to the posting history of all our internal candidates. We have vetted a number of candidates that were suggested to us and we have reviewed their forum posting history along with a number of other qualifications in order to be sure they live up to the standards we are setting for the beta War Council.

In other words, if any of your posts ever contained "HTFU", "scrub", "newberry", or "QQ", you are not WC material.

I imagine what they meant was that they checked through for people trolling or breaking the forum rules rather than using really quite common terminology.

Let's see.... gotta have quickgloves, icy tiger, iron wolf saber, g slizz (if you can find him) OH and sleepy zan :) oh wait.....

In other words, if any of your posts ever contained "HTFU", "scrub", "newberry", or "QQ", you are not WC material.

I think my son might of had an idea with merit:

"Why not just only allow PSN accounts that have actually logged into Dust and played some matches in the last few weeks to vote? That should weed out almost all of the dummy accounts."

Food for thought.

I love the amount of passion in this thread. It shows that this game already has the rabid fanbase CCP games are famous for, and that Internet Space-marines are serious business, even at this early stage. I personally am not worried: The WC is all about credibility with the player base. Without that, it's useless, both to us and to CCP. If CCP has picked a group without the credibility necessary, we'll let them know, and then ignore the WC until a new one is selected.

All that means is that you have to sink a couple of hours if that into each account, it wouldn't change anything,

Let me point out that hardware specific ideas are a bad idea because DUST 514 will probably outlast the PS3 system. So suggesting things like MAC addresses is just setting up a problem a few years down the road. Any idea needs to be inherent to the game itself, not to the system that runs the game. Technology changes.

Let me point out that hardware specific ideas are a bad idea because DUST 514 will probably outlast the PS3 system. So suggesting things like MAC addresses is just setting up a problem a few years down the road. Any idea needs to be inherent to the game itself, not to the system that runs the game. Technology changes.

No. You should know who is representing you or threadcrapping your votes away for their own agenda. They need to have a reason to do the job rather than be all "Look at me I'm a game dev! HI MOM!"

As someone who's been the subject of out of game harrassment I disagree with you breakin.

I think what matters most is that you only put in people who have plaid the game from ever view point

although I nominate me myself and I as well as protoman. protoman used to play the game a while ago and he drew every one's attention because he was really good at the game for some reason. He would probably know the most tricks about the game.

If DUST 514 ever came to PC and MAC address was used as a unique identifier, I could vote hundreds of times.

It's historically been possible to spoof a MAC address from a PS3, too. I can't speak as to whether it's currently viable because I haven't had cause to do so (some quick searching suggests it might be).

While I'm not one of them, many of the people who play this game have kids and for that reason DON'T have a credit card linked to a PSN account that their 10 year old can get onto. That's just one of the issues. Think about HOW you'd run that system and you'll realize that requiring a credit card opens up a few problems.

Lame.

You make this sound like there are hundreds of thousands of these situations. That maybe a % of a % of the number of players here.

You cant spoof a Credit card. I say you buy AUR you get the right to vote!

While I'm not one of them, many of the people who play this game have kids and for that reason DON'T have a credit card linked to a PSN account that their 10 year old can get onto. That's just one of the issues. Think about HOW you'd run that system and you'll realize that requiring a credit card opens up a few problems.

You can very well register the CC for the moment you vote and then delete it when you're done or you could imagine the game asking for you CC data without it being linked to your PSN account. Game then register this credit card has already voted and you're good. As for the "not everyone owns a credit card", i'm pretty sure this is only a very few % of the people that could vote. I'd even go with less than 1% tbh. Acceptable loss ? To me, yes.

As for the "buy aurum" suggestion it has two problems :

1) either it's cheap and some people will transfer small AUR amount to activate 100eds of voting accounts.
2) Either it's too expansive and you sink into a pay-to-get-elected situation. (which is kind of the case for any IRL election )

Credit Card identification without payment is something i really think could work. You could multi-accounts but not by an infinite amount. And you dont need to pay. Beside it has adress, name etc... with it so it eases deleting multiple voters.

What the........ you talking about ?

Pay to Win..... now Pay to Vote ? so much for the original idea of a Free to Play game huh ? Maybe you guys using a different dictionary than i do.

Free ;

Not affected or restricted by a given condition or circumstance.

Please reread the last sentence of my last post....

The (in most cases) 16 digits that make up a credit card number are just numbers until they are verified to be a valid account. And unless CCP starts issuing credit cards this means that CCP would need to set up the system needed to check potentially millions of cards for each election. While this isn't anywhere near impossible it would be a huge hassle for CCP, would cost them money, and would involve them in dealing with the card issuers (many of which aren't known for going out of their way to help other companies) if anything goes wrong.

I'm not saying the idea isn't feasible, I'm saying I don't see it being worth the hassle. There are plenty of alternative ways to set up voting that aren't as technically or financially complex, and which don't require dealing with outside forces.


And people, please remember that so far this discussion has been between members of the community, not CCP. So saying things like "so much for free-to-play" is ridiculous.

Honestly, isn't a single in-game voting system you can use that will be fair, and to be honest, is only the people that is involve in the outside game activities, that will be interested in voting in this "Council".

Solution is very simple ; A forum voting system, or a website voting system.

People that "only" plays the game, won't care about it, or won't even know who the best candidates are.

Panther Alpha, are you seriously suggesting trying to keep the people who are being represented from having a vote? The point of the council is to be the voice of the people playing the game, so any voting system NEEDS to be in the hands of the players.

What i saying is ; That just like in real life, if you interested in voting you go to you nearest polling station, and vote. If you not interested, you stay at home... and don't vote.

What i saying is ; That just like in real life, if you interested in voting you go to you nearest polling station, and vote. If you not interested, you stay at home... and don't vote.

Laurent, if you look through the threads I posted you'd see the first thing I did when I began discussing an idea was link to the post that brought it up.

I'd rather continue discussing this in the thread I made for it so we don't clutter this thread more. So I'll just comment on the fact that what you said would mean CCP would be relying on the system Sony uses for it's voting security.

What i saying is ; That just like in real life, if you interested in voting you go to you nearest polling station, and vote. If you not interested, you stay at home... and don't vote.

I personally believe a voting system will always be flawed, do note this is my 'opinion' and i am by no means disputing anyone else.

My reason for believing this is that people are inheritantly lazy when it comes to things they don't see of importance.
I believe a large percentage of the gaming base will be content and just playing along as is ( I mean this in general across many games with varying administrations. ) So those players will not want to bother with 'game politics' because they have enough stress in their real lives and want to game as a means of escapism without the responsibilities or pressures and concerns.

Now amongst that number, i am convinced the better leaders / council members / advisors / designers / analysts will be.

Time and time again we see that those who 'desire' to be in a position of authority, generally do not have the capacity to do the role they are wanting, and generally have another purpose or scheme in mind. I would also say that generally, these people are more easily corrupted by the power they obtain and use it to influence people unfairly.

Now this is the crux of the point i'm making.... I truely believe that some of the greatest leaders have emerged from a rise in circumstances and situations. Those who didn't vie for the power, but felt change had to happen and because noone else stepped up, they felt they had to. Though this kind of person is not usually the type who craves power, more often they actually would rather not be leading but they have a natural capacity to and noone else is doing a better job so they step up and take the responsibility to 'help others', rather than 'help themselves'.

In my eyes... that is the kind of people we need on the council. Those who have the drive to shape things for the better of all, not just a certain group.

So this is where i believe voting is flawed.... The majority of those who vote will be the 'louder' breed of gamers, the ones who seek more depth, which i believe is a tiny percentage of the gamerbase. Whereas the majority will quietly be doing their thing and not getting involved.

Some will say.. "well it's their fault for not getting involved" .. and i'll agree with you. However, you then have to ask yourself whether this situation is a fair way to select people of quality then, and i'd simply say i don't believe it is, it can too easily become biased.

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So... what do we do?

I don't have some 'great all seeing answer' for you.. sure i wish i did, but...

i feel we need a system of election... where people can recommend people 'with their consent'. They can have their 'respected/skilled' friend fill out an application form and send it in to the council.

These applictions should then be made visible in full on the internet with personal names etc.. removed, just the content of why the person suits the role.

Rather than tolling a voting system, i believe a comment system should be used, people can look at the applications and post their comments on the suitibility of the person for the role based on the information provided.

The council can then review the applications, review the comments incase they notice something the council didn't. The council can then hopefully make a qualitive decision rather than a quantitive one.

Thus, hopefully providing with people who are inspired to help the populace and help push the game forward, shaping it to be 'balanced' for all, which means varying degrees of fairness and un-fairness. Remember balanced does not mean every choice in a game is I-Win. There are pro's and con's to everything, and balancing is a very difficult concept in a game, and rebalancing will be needed every time new things are added.

I hope that this idea will resonate amongst you, i'm sure there are flaws in the system, and i'm sure there are others out there who could refine the system, adjust it, tweak it to make it even better.

But i believe it would provide us a fairer way of getting the right people than a biased number based system. Voting systems in games i'm afraid simply become 'who has the most friends/influence wins'.

I'll just wrap up this again by saying, this is my opinion, i am in no way discrediting other people's systems, as they may also work, my beliefs in this post can even be changed if facts are provided and prove anything i believe to be false. So i'm not trying to antagonise anyone or deny them what they feel is their right, etc... Just throwing out an idea which i believe would lead to a fairer system and remove the need for a numeric based voting system. I hope people can have an open mind as they consider it, and feel free to please offer constructive critisism whether you agree / disagree and why.

Thanks all.

NanoCleric, I think the basic idea you have is good but I don't see how it could scale up. If there were only a few thousand of us then it might work. The problem is it would become useless if even a third of the CURRENT players become involved. It's one thing if an application has a couple comments on it, it's another thing entirely if each application has Hundreds of comments on it. Only a handful of people would actually read that.

Tuesday?

Congrats to Cerebral Wolf & Iron wolf for being interviewed. Hope you both make it in!

what makes you so sure they have been interviewed? Ironwolf has already said he didn't get an invite (maybe he got an invite later on?)

The first rule of WC is that you don't talk about invites/interviews to WC. There is a lot of "so and so got this" and "so and so got that" flying around, keep in mind that some people will foolishly try to metagame this even before its fully formed.

These applictions should then be made visible in full on the internet with personal names etc.. removed, just the content of why the person suits the role.

Every single candidate for CSM is required to (and readily volunteers) their personal name when they decide to run for the council. My real name is Noah Garaas and I live in Seattle, nice to meet you all. See? It's that easy.

where it state that? you know someone who got in? anyway few guys were chatting about it in corp chat. I thought maybe it was announced.

8. Posting of personal information is prohibited.
The posting of personal information including but not limited to contact numbers, email addresses, account names and passwords, home addresses and real life names is strictly prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy, and will not tolerate the divulging of real life personal details.

Congrats to Cerebral Wolf & Iron wolf for being interviewed. Hope you both make it in!

If it's been announced, let me know! I haven't seen anything yet, has Dolan said anywhere which day the announcement would be?

And to answer your question - It might not, but CCP's just really tight-lipped about this kind of stuff and is always going to announce it on their own time in their own way.

Dolan said end of the month... its the 28th already :(

Well, there's always tomorrow! He'll just have to spend his weekend hanging out in the forums answering questions, NBD.

Every single candidate for CSM is required to (and readily volunteers) their personal name when they decide to run for the council. My real name is Noah Garaas and I live in Seattle, nice to meet you all. See? It's that easy.

This has always been a requirement for CSM candidacy, and I'd be really surprised to see CCP change their policy for the Dust WC. We run as normal people - and represent the players as normal people. CCP takes on an immense amount of legal risk by sharing NDA information with players, and thus the entire process is done with a greater degree of transparency that is necessary to simply play the game and be a community leader.

This is not for the sake of retribution against people's real lives if something unpleasant is done in-character, harassment is harassment and will never be tolerated or seen as acceptable by the community as "part of the game." However, by putting my real name on the line in exchange for the privilege of representing you, the players, I know full well that a betrayal of CCP's trust and a legal breach of contract is something that other people wishing to do business with Noah (Not Hans or Heinrich) will know about my personal integrity.

http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/candidates/

You could always petition their web team for violating privacy laws too.

By definition, the requirement to publicly divulge my name when I ran for CSM is also a waiving of my own right to name privacy. You have that right, and your information cannot be divulged, but I gave my name up when I ran for CSM. It's a matter of public record now.

If you really want to short-list who is in the WC, just start a "Who is going to fanfest?" thread. The WC candidates will be in that list.

Of course, they may not be able to admit it. I'm just going to wait until they announce the group at fanfest.

(No I haven't read anywhere that they'll be announcing the WC at fanfest, but I'd bet AUR on it).

Look for a Dev Blog announcing the full War Council some time before the end of the month.

To be honest I thought captain awesome would have made it to out of all the people I've asked. So I am at a total loss who could be on the list.

Ok.. following up my previous post, it still stands about the Data Protection act, but you are right that yes, you do have the right to waver that right too. So from the link i see it does look like all those candidates have permitted them to share their name.