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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3280
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Posted - 2013.03.28 22:42:00 -
[211] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dolan said end of the month... its the 28th already :( Well, there's always tomorrow! He'll just have to spend his weekend hanging out in the forums answering questions, NBD.
Where is Dolan anyways? is he part of the Iceland or Shanghai team? I know a few CCP guys are at the Pax East right now and some where at the game conference not to long ago. |
Klivve Cussler
Ransoms Incorporated
77
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Posted - 2013.03.28 22:48:00 -
[212] - Quote
If you really want to short-list who is in the WC, just start a "Who is going to fanfest?" thread. The WC candidates will be in that list.
Of course, they may not be able to admit it. I'm just going to wait until they announce the group at fanfest.
(No I haven't read anywhere that they'll be announcing the WC at fanfest, but I'd bet AUR on it). |
NanoCleric
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
8
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Posted - 2013.03.28 22:58:00 -
[213] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:NanoCleric wrote: These applictions should then be made visible in full on the internet with personal names etc.. removed, just the content of why the person suits the role. Every single candidate for CSM is required to (and readily volunteers) their personal name when they decide to run for the council. My real name is Noah Garaas and I live in Seattle, nice to meet you all. See? It's that easy. This has always been a requirement for CSM candidacy, and I'd be really surprised to see CCP change their policy for the Dust WC. We run as normal people - and represent the players as normal people. CCP takes on an immense amount of legal risk by sharing NDA information with players, and thus the entire process is done with a greater degree of transparency that is necessary to simply play the game and be a community leader. This is not for the sake of retribution against people's real lives if something unpleasant is done in-character, harassment is harassment and will never be tolerated or seen as acceptable by the community as "part of the game." However, by putting my real name on the line in exchange for the privilege of representing you, the players, I know full well that a betrayal of CCP's trust and a legal breach of contract is something that other people wishing to do business with Noah (Not Hans or Heinrich) will know about my personal integrity.
Hmm, i agree and disagree because i believe your misinterpreting the intention of what i wrote, just to make it a little clearer:
A full application with appropriate details would be submitted to CCP / DustCouncil...
... then ...
Those applications are put on a ccp website for this.. with the personal details removed. So CCP know who they are, but you are not publicly releasing personal information as this is a breach of the data protection act. So regardless of CCP polices, they do have to adhere to the Data Protection act.
So you see.. they will still be submitting their names if CCP deem that appropriate, but CCP would not then publisize those names.
Hope that clears things up for you. |
NanoCleric
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
8
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Posted - 2013.03.28 23:07:00 -
[214] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:Devils Imp wrote:8. Posting of personal information is prohibited. The posting of personal information including but not limited to contact numbers, email addresses, account names and passwords, home addresses and real life names is strictly prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy, and will not tolerate the divulging of real life personal details. http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/candidates/You could always petition their web team for violating privacy laws too. By definition, the requirement to publicly divulge my name when I ran for CSM is also a waiving of my own right to name privacy. You have that right, and your information cannot be divulged, but I gave my name up when I ran for CSM. It's a matter of public record now.
Ok.. following up my previous post, it still stands about the Data Protection act, but you are right that yes, you do have the right to waver that right too. So from the link i see it does look like all those candidates have permitted them to share their name.
However.. i still think that it should be hidden away when on the site. The main reason i believe in this is that i think the community should comment based on what the application has to offer, rather than the name alone.. It's easy to be bias when names are involved. I just think this would lead to better quality candidates... of course there's always room for error too... but the panel would then be able to see what people comment on regarding the nature of each application.. then can assess the applications again taking into account what was said in the comments... then they are the ones who choose who are the most appropriate candidates based on the information they are privy to.
I'm not saying 'this is the way it has to be and all other ways must die ten times over' by any means :) ... I just think it's a less bias way of selecting a council than any voting system. Voting has always been about a combination of who is the loudest and can gather the most friends(supporters).. That doesn't always equate to the right person for the role. That's the reason i have proposed the system. |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
148
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Posted - 2013.03.29 01:03:00 -
[215] - Quote
No, I get it Nano - it's a fair debate and plenty of EVE players have suggested that the CSM be run this way as well (CCP knowing people's real names, but hiding them from the public) but they've also said as of very recently that their policy remains and that they won't be changing this requirement.
|
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
148
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Posted - 2013.03.29 01:08:00 -
[216] - Quote
Klivve Cussler wrote:If you really want to short-list who is in the WC, just start a "Who is going to fanfest?" thread. The WC candidates will be in that list.
Of course, they may not be able to admit it. I'm just going to wait until they announce the group at fanfest.
(No I haven't read anywhere that they'll be announcing the WC at fanfest, but I'd bet AUR on it).
Two problems with this theory:
1.) CCP doesn't pay to fly the incoming CSM members to FF, there is no reason to think they'd fly the incoming WC members either.
2.) See below:
CCP Dolan wrote:Look for a Dev Blog announcing the full War Council some time before the end of the month. |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
369
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Posted - 2013.03.29 12:32:00 -
[217] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
To be honest I thought captain awesome would have made it to out of all the people I've asked. So I am at a total loss who could be on the list.
lol I am not WC material, besides, I am far more interested in trying to help the WC than being on it and my project for the community eats my time :) all I can do at the moment is provide the WC with a website and tools to make their lives easier and even then it's up to them to use it :)
NanoCleric wrote: Ok.. following up my previous post, it still stands about the Data Protection act, but you are right that yes, you do have the right to waver that right too. So from the link i see it does look like all those candidates have permitted them to share their name.
I don't see how it stands, rule 8 is there for OTHER people to post YOUR information, so for example, you can't post Ironwolfs real name without his permission, but ironwolf is allowed to post his information, in other words third parties holding your data are not allowed to publish your information without your consent.
NanoCleric wrote: However.. i still think that it should be hidden away when on the site. The main reason i believe in this is that i think the community should comment based on what the application has to offer, rather than the name alone.. It's easy to be bias when names are involved. I just think this would lead to better quality candidates...
That's a very fair point :) But people need to know what this candidate has done for the community, is what their saying validatable, their ability to trust in the candidate and if they think they will follow through on their words? or is it just for epeen waving. People can make VERY convincing articles when they are anonymous and that's the problem with the internet not the individual.
NanoCleric wrote: of course there's always room for error too... but the panel would then be able to see what people comment on regarding the nature of each application.. then can assess the applications again taking into account what was said in the comments... then they are the ones who choose who are the most appropriate candidates based on the information they are privy to.
are you saying the temporary WC picks the proper council once the voting method (if any) has been decided? because I think a lot of those on the WC might actually want to be on the next one also... having a current seat on that council might put them in an advantageous position - this does kind of support your idea of anonymity but I don't think the reason is very valid in that it won't be the same case for everyone.
People will always have conflicting ideas, one person view of a great opinion, is somebody else's view of a bad opinion, so leaving it to a small council on who decides to run for WC next, is taking the communities opinion (on who should be there) away.
Yes the community is not easy to use, we are fickle, biased, love to misinterpret and love to see people burn (In my opinion a mix of CCP select and community select would be the best compromise) but it gets the community their man. I wouldn't like a WC being chosen without having an input and as long as my right to an opinion is kept, I think we should explore different avenues - but keeping that right.
I vote in real life but I can actually contribute to somebodies candidacy here with more than just a paper slip. I'm more involved, the community is more accessible, so I would like to have a say as a community member.
NanoCleric wrote: I'm not saying 'this is the way it has to be and all other ways must die ten times over' by any means :) ... I just think it's a less bias way of selecting a council than any voting system. Voting has always been about a combination of who is the loudest and can gather the most friends(supporters).. That doesn't always equate to the right person for the role. That's the reason i have proposed the system.
I think this is more of a problem that needs to be tackled than a reason to give up. You spoke of anonymity, this is one possible solution (debatable but present) - looking into how people make their candidacy more inviting to the community is something that should be discussed - maybe anonymous candidates would be a good thing when combined with other methods of assuring an unbiased voting system. But I think that's up to the WC to discuss :)
to conclude I think my post didn't really add value to the talk lol! I'm on the ropes about candidate anonymity - how do you assure anonymity? are they void if word gets out who they are? and more questions I haven't yet thought of... but I think something should be done about the candidacy process to remove biased decisions :).... but we'll get that anywhere. Corp leader will say "vote for this person" their members will do it. But that's still no reason to remove community voting.
lots of methods to explore... would be nice to see all these methods documented somewhere... hmm I'll do this on the neweden site later and include your idea. But for now, time for food. |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
369
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Posted - 2013.03.29 12:40:00 -
[218] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:Klivve Cussler wrote:If you really want to short-list who is in the WC, just start a "Who is going to fanfest?" thread. The WC candidates will be in that list.
Of course, they may not be able to admit it. I'm just going to wait until they announce the group at fanfest.
(No I haven't read anywhere that they'll be announcing the WC at fanfest, but I'd bet AUR on it). Two problems with this theory: 1.) CCP doesn't pay to fly the incoming CSM members to FF, there is no reason to think they'd fly the incoming WC members either. They could, but it shouldn't be expected. 2.) See below: CCP Dolan wrote:Look for a Dev Blog announcing the full War Council some time before the end of the month.
there's also the fact they might not bother posting in the thread ;) |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
535
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Posted - 2013.03.29 13:03:00 -
[219] - Quote
Today is March 29.
That leaves today, tomorrow, and Easter Sunday as the only days left in this month to announce the War Council members.
When do we get to find out who we are supposed to be pestering? |
Xmar Handfelid
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2013.03.29 14:35:00 -
[220] - Quote
What vehicles you recommend us to use. Will we have to us orbital strikes |
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THE GREY CARDINAL
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
50
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Posted - 2013.03.30 09:24:00 -
[221] - Quote
A place on the DUST 514 War Council is an interesting goal. :) |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
372
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Posted - 2013.03.30 10:04:00 -
[222] - Quote
I think it'll be up to the War Council to make it as interesting a position as possible :) great position for meta game :) |
THE GREY CARDINAL
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
50
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Posted - 2013.03.30 10:24:00 -
[223] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:I think it'll be up to the War Council to make it as interesting a position as possible :) great position for meta game :)
Perhaps one could say...it's ideal position for creative and slightly eccentric visionaries who have a keen (O.C.D) eye for detail, great analytical prowess and unrestrained imagination...Where...where can such people be found...? |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
873
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Posted - 2013.03.30 20:33:00 -
[224] - Quote
THE GREY CARDINAL wrote:Captain-Awesome wrote:I think it'll be up to the War Council to make it as interesting a position as possible :) great position for meta game :) Perhaps one could say...it's ideal position for creative and slightly eccentric visionaries who have a keen (O.C.D) eye for detail, great analytical prowess and unrestrained imagination...Where...where can such people be found...?
Not in New Eden certainly |
Katariss Katalyst
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.03.30 20:58:00 -
[225] - Quote
You know how we should do the voting system?
We should make it so that each PSN account gets 1 vote. (ppl can have multi chars, but they stll get one vote...)
I think it would be great for this so that people cant vote x3 on what they like :) (if you really like something, get your corp to vote tooo)
just some thoughts, thanks.... |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 21:19:00 -
[226] - Quote
Katariss Katalyst wrote:You know how we should do the voting system?
We should make it so that each PSN account gets 1 vote. (ppl can have multi chars, but they stll get one vote...)
I think it would be great for this so that people cant vote x3 on what they like :) (if you really like something, get your corp to vote tooo)
just some thoughts, thanks....
can actually create as many psn accounts as you want |
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock
Ultramarine Corp
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 21:55:00 -
[227] - Quote
What if we give ten votes to the CEO of each player corp in Dust? Requirements would be something along the lines of having a specific number of members in your corp and a percentage of those members would have to be @ 2mil SP. This would promote more players participating in corps and would keep people from being able to create a corp just to get extra votes. Any input? |
Mithridates VI
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
546
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 01:18:00 -
[228] - Quote
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:What if we give ten votes to the CEO of each player corp in Dust? Requirements would be something along the lines of having a specific number of members in your corp and a percentage of those members would have to be @ 2mil SP. This would promote more players participating in corps and would keep people from being able to create a corp just to get extra votes. Any input?
I am CEO of a number of tiny corporations full of passive SP gainers. If this system were used I would cast a pile of votes for a terrible candidate just to highlight how breakable it is.
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Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock
Ultramarine Corp
6
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Posted - 2013.03.31 04:03:00 -
[229] - Quote
I wasn't aware you could be a member of multiple corps. |
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock
Ultramarine Corp
6
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Posted - 2013.03.31 04:09:00 -
[230] - Quote
And congratulations on being part of the problem! Perhaps next time you post something you'll actually provide some input instead of pointing out how tools can take advantage of any situation and use it to completely ruin things for everyone else. I thought we were here sharing ideas. |
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Mithridates VI
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
548
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 05:11:00 -
[231] - Quote
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:I wasn't aware you could be a member of multiple corps. Multiple PSNs.
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:And congratulations on being part of the problem! Perhaps next time you post something you'll actually provide some input instead of pointing out how tools can take advantage of any situation and use it to completely ruin things for everyone else. I thought we were here sharing ideas. Oh dear, I'm sorry that you're so personally offended by having your little idea dismissed that you fail to understand that offering a means of exploiting it is exactly the kind of feedback most want for their voting suggestions and actually is "input".
The fact that tools can take advantage of any situation and use it to ruin things for everyone else is why we need better ideas than that.
Did you want to be congratulated for trying and not have any criticisms made of the suggestion? |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 09:27:00 -
[232] - Quote
Have to agree with mith, that suggestion is flawed, basic and elitist, anyone should be allowed to be put up for candidacy (If it was decided to go that way) not just corp leaders. |
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock
Ultramarine Corp
6
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Posted - 2013.03.31 10:18:00 -
[233] - Quote
Criticizing is not helping. You in no way suggested an improved way of doing you only pointed out that it was flawed. If I had a fool proof system I would've typed up ten pages explaining it in detail. I am sorry I'm not a regular on the forums but I'm trying to help how I can. Now if you see a flaw in it you could simply point it out, and as was stated help the process by suggesting a better approach. And I was referring to the actual vote not who would be a candidate, perhaps I was off topic there. But I had an idea that a pseudo electoral college system might be an idea worth at least exploring. |
Mithridates VI
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
549
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 10:29:00 -
[234] - Quote
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:Criticizing is not helping. Really? So if I posted a dozen ridiculous suggestions it would be worthwhile to offer improvements on the same theme even if the theme isn't worth exploring?
Okay, how about we only allow people with cats to vote and they have to post a picture of their cat with a humorous caption in order to enroll. Funnier pictures of cats will be given greater voting power.
Should you point out the flaw and then offer an improvement on the same idea?
You're setting rules for the discussion which protect your delicate feelings. |
Mithridates VI
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
549
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Posted - 2013.03.31 10:33:00 -
[235] - Quote
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:I am sorry I'm not a regular on the forums but I'm trying to help how I can. Framing this as "I'm being picked on because I'm not a regular" is either intentionally dishonest or further attempts to delude yourself into believing you are being treated unfairly. Your idea is being criticised on its own lack of merit, not on your spacepopularity.
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Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 14:20:00 -
[236] - Quote
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:Criticizing is not helping. You in no way suggested an improved way of doing you only pointed out that it was flawed. If I had a fool proof system I would've typed up ten pages explaining it in detail. I am sorry I'm not a regular on the forums but I'm trying to help how I can. Now if you see a flaw in it you could simply point it out, and as was stated help the process by suggesting a better approach. And I was referring to the actual vote not who would be a candidate, perhaps I was off topic there. But I had an idea that a pseudo electoral college system might be an idea worth at least exploring.
its good that you are coming up with ideas, we have all come up with suggestions though, read the whole thread, I myself made a separate thread about a possible solution, and posted the link here. So have others, but I think flooding this thread with a discussion not relevant to the op is not right. Make a separate thread in general and we can look there. Think lots of people want to talk about it here but not really relevant. |
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock
Ultramarine Corp
6
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Posted - 2013.03.31 16:01:00 -
[237] - Quote
Well seeing how I didn't come looking for an argument, thank you captain awesome. Like I said i'm still new to the forum thing as I'm sure most console gamers might be. I love this game and wanna help develop it, I'll try to make sure I pay closer attention to the topic though, I can see how that would get confusing. |
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock
Ultramarine Corp
6
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Posted - 2013.03.31 16:03:00 -
[238] - Quote
And I don't feel like I'm being picked on at all, I just feel like you are kind being an ass for no reason, but that's your right buddy, have a good one! |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
383
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 17:24:00 -
[239] - Quote
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:And I don't feel like I'm being picked on at all, I just feel like you are kind being an ass for no reason, but that's your right buddy, have a good one!
hehe yeah don't worry about that, it's the new Eden universe mentality: guilty until proven innocent, that's what happens when a game gets politics hehe.
regardless of the negativity, we do appreciate people showing an interest, wrong or right isn't important at that level. But the more you get involved, the better grasp you'll get :) there's a lot of conspriracy lovers here that love to see you burn, just ignore them and try to push on :) |
Wolverine Canus
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
21
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Posted - 2013.04.01 02:14:00 -
[240] - Quote
heres your mandatory tin foil hat |
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