DUST Search - Announcement:DUST 514 War Council

Panther AIpha wrote:

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

Trainer Node wrote:

While I'm not one of them, many of the people who play this game have kids and for that reason DON'T have a credit card linked to a PSN account that their 10 year old can get onto. That's just one of the issues. Think about HOW you'd run that system and you'll realize that requiring a credit card opens up a few problems.

You can very well register the CC for the moment you vote and then delete it when you're done or you could imagine the game asking for you CC data without it being linked to your PSN account. Game then register this credit card has already voted and you're good. As for the "not everyone owns a credit card", i'm pretty sure this is only a very few % of the people that could vote. I'd even go with less than 1% tbh. Acceptable loss ? To me, yes.

As for the "buy aurum" suggestion it has two problems :

1) either it's cheap and some people will transfer small AUR amount to activate 100eds of voting accounts.
2) Either it's too expansive and you sink into a pay-to-get-elected situation. (which is kind of the case for any IRL election Lol

)

Credit Card identification without payment is something i really think could work. You could multi-accounts but not by an infinite amount. And you dont need to pay. Beside it has adress, name etc... with it so it eases deleting multiple voters.

What the........ you talking about ?

Pay to Win..... now Pay to Vote ? so much for the original idea of a Free to Play game huh ? Maybe you guys using a different dictionary than i do.

Free ;

Not affected or restricted by a given condition or circumstance.

Trainer Node wrote:

Please reread the last sentence of my last post....

The (in most cases) 16 digits that make up a credit card number are just numbers until they are verified to be a valid account. And unless CCP starts issuing credit cards this means that CCP would need to set up the system needed to check potentially millions of cards for each election. While this isn't anywhere near impossible it would be a huge hassle for CCP, would cost them money, and would involve them in dealing with the card issuers (many of which aren't known for going out of their way to help other companies) if anything goes wrong.

I'm not saying the idea isn't feasible, I'm saying I don't see it being worth the hassle. There are plenty of alternative ways to set up voting that aren't as technically or financially complex, and which don't require dealing with outside forces.

And people, please remember that so far this discussion has been between members of the community, not CCP. So saying things like "so much for free-to-play" is ridiculous.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 17 post(s)
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1210	Posted - 2013.03.18 15:52:00 - [1] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Will we have at least a representative for each language? I would feel better if we could talk to our representatives in our language and then he or she can report in english in the council The whole thing is good news ! It is through that kind of interactions with the community that CCP makes a difference with your usual game dev. So witnessing the birth of a Dust 514 CSM is a very very very good thing. I get the whole handpick thing as the mecanics behind voting for a Dust CSM has to be entirely build from scratch due to the F2P nature and the fact that well.....no one did that before. One thing i would support though is the remark i quote from shaman oga. Even though, it would a hell of a huge council if you would have to add one representative per language. But i guess spanish, chinese, german, french and english would be pretty good for starter.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1210	Posted - 2013.03.18 16:01:00 - [2] - Quote Oh sorry for the double post but...... Yeah the name HAS to change Otherwise, we'll end up talking about CSM and...... WC....... see the problem here ?
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1225	Posted - 2013.03.21 00:40:00 - [3] - Quote Average Joe81 wrote: I think what matters most is that you only put in people who have plaid the game from ever view point although I nominate me myself and I as well as protoman. protoman used to play the game a while ago and he drew every one's attention because he was really good at the game for some reason. He would probably know the most tricks about the game. Yeah protoman is a long time player. But i dont recall him giving any valuable feedback compared to other people here except rant about how its precious breach AR and straf speed were nerf. And obviously, while doing so, not offering any tweaking suggestion as a solution to balance stuff. Knowing the game is obviously mandatory but you dont need a year of experience on it to have that. What matters greatly imo is the state of mind people have when considering a game's evolution and how they put it into words. And many people i've seen being suggested on the forum are, from where i'm standing, far from having the potential to have constructive talks and relevant pointers to give to CCP. Also, many of those dont care much about what others may think and believe they hold the truth about everything... Now to get back to the voting process. Has anyone suggested this as a possible way to avoid multi-accounts ? => Having a credit card registered in your PSN account being mandatory This could easily be used to tag accounts. Yes people could still manage to get 2-3 credit cards and create extra account but using name, adress and other information, CCP could maybe sort out people using multiple cards from the same home. Obviously, when a vote is cast, credit card is registered and any other account trying to vote with that same CC registered is denied. Now, how feasible this is probably depends on Sony's policy in sharing those data with a third party developper. Could be tricky. Yet, it would allow a kind of control without requiring any actual purchase in game. Thoughts ?
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1230	Posted - 2013.03.21 15:27:00 - [4] - Quote Trainer Node wrote: While I'm not one of them, many of the people who play this game have kids and for that reason DON'T have a credit card linked to a PSN account that their 10 year old can get onto. That's just one of the issues. Think about HOW you'd run that system and you'll realize that requiring a credit card opens up a few problems. You can very well register the CC for the moment you vote and then delete it when you're done. Game register this credit card has already voted and you're good. As for the "buy aurum" suggestion it has two problems : 1) either it's cheap and some people will transfer small AUR amount to activate 100eds of voting accounts. 2) Either it's too expansive and you sink into a pay-to-get-elected situation. (which is kind of the case for any IRL election ) Credit Card identification without payment is something i really think could work. You could multi-accounts but not by an infinite amount. And you dont need to pay. Beside it has adress, name etc... with it so it eases deleting multiple voters.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1232	Posted - 2013.03.22 10:22:00 - [5] - Quote Panther AIpha wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Trainer Node wrote: While I'm not one of them, many of the people who play this game have kids and for that reason DON'T have a credit card linked to a PSN account that their 10 year old can get onto. That's just one of the issues. Think about HOW you'd run that system and you'll realize that requiring a credit card opens up a few problems. You can very well register the CC for the moment you vote and then delete it when you're done or you could imagine the game asking for you CC data without it being linked to your PSN account. Game then register this credit card has already voted and you're good. As for the "not everyone owns a credit card", i'm pretty sure this is only a very few % of the people that could vote. I'd even go with less than 1% tbh. Acceptable loss ? To me, yes. As for the "buy aurum" suggestion it has two problems : 1) either it's cheap and some people will transfer small AUR amount to activate 100eds of voting accounts. 2) Either it's too expansive and you sink into a pay-to-get-elected situation. (which is kind of the case for any IRL election ) Credit Card identification without payment is something i really think could work. You could multi-accounts but not by an infinite amount. And you dont need to pay. Beside it has adress, name etc... with it so it eases deleting multiple voters. What the........ you talking about ? Pay to Win..... now Pay to Vote ? so much for the original idea of a Free to Play game huh ? Maybe you guys using a different dictionary than i do. Free ; Not affected or restricted by a given condition or circumstance. Except the idea i root for doesnt imply paying. Just ID through credit card. So please, do try and actually READ people's post before going all shocked and give lessons. Trainer Node wrote: Please reread the last sentence of my last post.... The (in most cases) 16 digits that make up a credit card number are just numbers until they are verified to be a valid account. And unless CCP starts issuing credit cards this means that CCP would need to set up the system needed to check potentially millions of cards for each election. While this isn't anywhere near impossible it would be a huge hassle for CCP, would cost them money, and would involve them in dealing with the card issuers (many of which aren't known for going out of their way to help other companies) if anything goes wrong. I'm not saying the idea isn't feasible, I'm saying I don't see it being worth the hassle. There are plenty of alternative ways to set up voting that aren't as technically or financially complex, and which don't require dealing with outside forces. And people, please remember that so far this discussion has been between members of the community, not CCP. So saying things like "so much for free-to-play" is ridiculous. That's why i suggested in the first place CCP using CC tied to PSN accounts. Afaik, you cannot enter a bogus CC with your PSN account as it is checked before being registered. I know as i often tried using my EU mastercard on my psn account and it never wanted to link it. Would save the trouble for CCP. Would open vote for most people with a minimum of control regarding multi-account. (make no mistake, plenty of EVE dudes have multi-account they all pay for, can't beat every loop hole). As for the thread focused on a specific idea, quoting the people who suggested the idea in the first place is always nice.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1232	Posted - 2013.03.22 11:24:00 - [6] - Quote Panther AIpha wrote: Honestly, isn't a single in-game voting system you can use that will be fair, and to be honest, is only the people that is involve in the outside game activities, that will be interested in voting in this "Council". Solution is very simple ; A forum voting system, or a website voting system. People that "only" plays the game, won't care about it, or won't even know who the best candidates are. Problem is about avoiding that among those who care about the vote, none can actually trick the vote by voting multiple times without any control.... Obviously there will be people who wont give a damn. But the more people will take interest in it, the more this thing has to be handle carefully.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1233	Posted - 2013.03.22 19:01:00 - [7] - Quote Card Drunook wrote: Laurent, if you look through the threads I posted you'd see the first thing I did when I began discussing an idea was link to the post that brought it up. I'd rather continue discussing this in the thread I made for it so we don't clutter this thread more. So I'll just comment on the fact that what you said would mean CCP would be relying on the system Sony uses for it's voting security. my bad dude, must have missed it ^^