How about playing the game to have fun

Here are the details regarding the skill point reward system change at downtime today. To make comparisons between the old and the new system easier, weGÇÖve included outlines of both below.

Old system:

Weekly cycle (reset every Tuesday)
Weekly allowance of 190,400 SP per week (7x 27,200 SP, hard-capped)
Diminishing returns on warpoints and time spent GÇô the more you play, the less you get (until you hit the cap)
No consolation prize GÇô once you hit the cap, you get nothing


New system:

Daily cycle (reset at downtime)
Daily allowance of 27,200 SP per day (hard-capped)
Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap)
- Warpoints earned are converted into skillpoints (1 WP = 1 SP)
- Time spent in battle grants SP (1 second = 5 SP)
- Consolation prize of 50 SP per battle once the daily cap has been hit

---

Seriously? 27,200 SP a day?

This translates to a maximum of 90 minutes of in-game time per day, less when you factor in war points and whatever else other than time spent in battle that gives SP, making the grind for SP even more tedious and removing any incentive for players to continue playing after the cap has been hit (which a good player could hit in just a handful of games...).

I don't think this includes the passive skill points.

I thought the weekly cap was higher than this.

There's 24,000 passive SP each day as well. It comes out to roughly 350k a week total, without boosters.

Honeslty does no on like the idea of a sp roll over ? You know just so you can sometimes have a life and stuff ?

Disliking this. The weekly cap was good. A "rested XP" system, that would accumulate cap when you don't play to an extent of some million XP would be best. Reward players for playing, not for doing a daily grind.

Honeslty does no on like the idea of a sp roll over ? You know just so you can sometimes have a life and stuff ?

I like the sound of this, sounds like you log on for a bit. Play a few rounds and hit your sp cap. Keep playing if you want or not.

The question is how long will it take to hit the cap?

I like the sound of this, sounds like you log on for a bit. Play a few rounds and hit your sp cap. Keep playing if you want or not.

The question is how long will it take to hit the cap?

I like the sound of this, sounds like you log on for a bit. Play a few rounds and hit your sp cap. Keep playing if you want or not.

The question is how long will it take to hit the cap?

6 full games if you do absolutely nothing. 4500 minimum from a full 15 min game. 27200/4500 = 6.04

Well, this might also confirms that we're gonna still be in Closed Beta for a while longer, cuz once you hit the cap then what? earn 50 sp till another reset day? grinding will be longer and testing out stuff will take time too, unless I'm wrong and everyday the SP will get a reset to earn those 27k again.

Weekly allowance of 190,400 SP per week

It's not the final iteration of the SP system. They've apparently designed a roll over kind of system, but haven't been able to devote the development resources to it yet.

This new daily system is TOTALLY WRONG !

So, playing 1 hour and a half AFK allows you to reach cap ? Okay, non-sense to me.
BUT, missing ONE DAY makes you lose SP forever ?

Where's the point there ?

I mean, one guy playing every day of the week for 1 hour will reach cap each day. And the guy that just plays 2 days but plays 4-5 hours every time will reach the cap twice ? And in the end earn way less than the 1 hour school scrub ? And the poor fella that likes to spend is well earned saturday playing after a hard week of work ? He's gonna hard-cap after ONE hour ? Having then "no reason" to play in a way ?


Come on CCP...... That's just not the path to follow with this.

This new daily system is TOTALLY WRONG !

So, playing 1 hour and a half AFK allows you to reach cap ? Okay, non-sense to me.
BUT, missing ONE DAY makes you lose SP forever ?

Where's the point there ?

I mean, one guy playing every day of the week for 1 hour will reach cap each day. And the guy that just plays 2 days but plays 4-5 hours every time will reach the cap twice ? And in the end earn way less than the 1 hour school scrub ? And the poor fella that likes to spend is well earned saturday playing after a hard week of work ? He's gonna hard-cap after ONE hour ? Having then "no reason" to play in a way ?


Come on CCP...... That's just not the path to follow with this.

I like the sound of this, sounds like you log on for a bit. Play a few rounds and hit your sp cap. Keep playing if you want or not.

The question is how long will it take to hit the cap?

Dude think about what youGÇÖre saying. Sure thatGÇÖs cool day to day but what about the tons of SP peeps will be losing for having a life. They will never be able to be competitive.

system blows
makes DUST feel like a job now which will in turn make it LESS enjoyable
being forced to log on and play just to not miss a day of SP now is dumb

would rather the old system where i can pick an choose my days and hit that weekly cap
and why isnt there already a roll over system?
its these little things that delay the game.
From the get go when they decided to implement a cap the thought process should of been some sort of roll over system for ppl that cant nolife

Think I'm going to hunt thu the forums and cut and past everyones feed back in other threads to this one.

Brb

holy crap. you really do have time to waste at the moment

See dude ! Told you a daily thingy would be worse

This ruins : boosters, casuals, pleasure.
And i'm not even talking about the "Get AFK, get SP !!!!"

Guess i know what i'll be doing while cooking, cleaning, ironing my stuff, hanging with the gal etc...
I'll just be AFK in a MCC wearing a militia suit.

=> 6000 SP each time ! yeah !

I think I understand CCP's thinking on this but if I'm correct, this change is way premature.

CCP wants playing Dust514 to be less about levelling your characters and more about fighting large planetary wars for resources etc.

and nothing from me ! Coz i'm WTF ! You really are mean.

+1 for the summary job

And now we deal with this in match?! Great!

This is going to hurt the game immensely half the blueberries will be hiding each match making it even more of an easy redlining.

With all the feedback we have given this has to be the worst possible choice.

A rolling hard cap that anyone has the possibility of catching up is the only way this will appeal to new players.

Each week the Max sp is reset controlling the 7 year Sp pace. There is no cap except the hard cap. Don't play a week cause you went on vacation grind when you come home catch up.

The advantage to long term veterans would be the passive Sp gain. And even that could be included in the cap or sold as an aurum item to be able to catch up.

If players never have the ability to catch up to older players the complaining will be epic and probably make many stop playing or never start. I want everyone to be able to have the same skill points as me if they are new or old you just have to it your time in.

@ HowDidThatTaste

NAIL ON THE HEAD!

the change makes the grind more important/ dominant. When in fact it should be about fun and core gameplay, as you say.

holy crap. you really do have time to waste at the moment

Actually, I think the change will make the grind less important because you won't be able to earn a lot of SP from a lot of playing. This way it will take months to reach proto gear even with boosters. People who can play all day will still only earn the same SP as people who only play 90 mins a day. Missing a day of play only loses you 27k in SP, which isn't much really. This will somewhat level the playing field but only after they reset.

See dude ! Told you a daily thingy would be worse

This ruins : boosters, casuals, pleasure.
And i'm not even talking about the "Get AFK, get SP !!!!"

Guess i know what i'll be doing while cooking, cleaning, ironing my stuff, hanging with the gal etc...
I'll just be AFK in a MCC wearing a militia suit.

=> 6000 SP each time ! yeah !

The ability to lose SP will kill this game. 27000 SP a week is too low. Boosters are now broken, can I have my 7000 AUR back please.

I like most of the changes regarding the skillsystem. But the one thing I really dislike is the daily cap and reset.
At least as long there is no rollover implementet. Forcing players to play every day is not a very good decision in my opinion. If they combine the other changes (linear approach and 1 WP=1SP) with a weekly cap, I think the system would be ok. Then you can either play on your preferred days without fear of falling behind or if you play on a daily base switch to your alt clone. Now leveling a second clone is much more complicated :(

This new idea of the SP system is a utter joke. Its just cutting the weekly SP into 7 pieces. Wrong CCP, very wrong turn. I still think that we should get a monthly cap. That allows every 1 to get the same amount of SP and you will still sell those 7 day boosters.

To be honest, don't care at all about the casuals except that I want them to like and play the game. This whole catching up business doesn't mean as much as people make it out to. If you play the game 2-3 months, you can more or less max out your speciality and at least within that field you can compete with anyone. As an example: the difference between a 15 m SP assault player and a 30 m SP assault player is negligeable.

After a short while (lets say 2-3 months) the leveling up is more about branching out. More skillpoints makes a higher level player more flexible, but not neccisarily better in a fight than a guy that has played for a couple of months, provided that he has specialized in his area and spent his skillpoints wisely.

And then there is the matter of the three different levels of play and even the most likely to come "noob zones" with equipment restricitons. This is a closed beta with one giant soup of players with a matchmaking system that seems to do the opposite of what is intended. The elitist tryhards will always be a minority, which most likely will stomp on the casuals regardless. A casual player will still have plenty of peeps to shoot out that doesn't have a proto fit.

By by all means, a rolling system would probably be the best, espescially a monthly. I don't see a big problem the people capping out after 10 days, that only applies to the no-lifers that most likely just will start leveling up the second and third character anyway.

Aeon Amadi an hour and half playing dust is a long time when Im suppost to be on a diving holiday.

In other news I just sat in the war barge watching my poor team struggle with a man down and I earnt 9000 sp. RESULT!


This system does not punish the hardcore you plonker.

I never said that it did punish the hardcore... Read what I posted better dude...

An hour and a half MINUS THE WAR POINTS EARNED. If you're a Logistics player, that time goes down dramatically.

CCP, how very Serpentis of you. Pushing boosters on DUST junkies who actually honor their RL commitments.

Still, it's not like you're putting a gun to our heads. No, you sell the guns to a cadre of no-life grinding mercs.

You sell them the guns, you sell us the boosters.

Well done.

when you run 1 week passive+active SP boosters you are 3 1/2 days ahead of a guy who doesnt use them.

Yes, 3.5 days would be 50% of 7 days...

Everyone seems to agree that a daily cap without some kind of roll over for people who can't play daily isn't good.

You also seem to agree, mostly, that CCP deserves to make some money off this game.

You might know where this is going by now ... and the little troll in your head is starting to grow !

So what would you all think if they introduced a new AUR item, some kind of 'sp bank' that once plugged in allows your clone to begin buffering some daily caps for say 3, 7, 14 or 30 days, allowing you to come back after a weeks holiday and grind back the caps you missed out on.

Casuals can stay competitive in the long run at a cost of real money and the jobless can play all day every day in a still F2P game ... it's not pay2win so thats not an issue.

I'm not sure I'd buy them myself, we'll have to see, but it's a solution if they're that keen on keeping the daily cap.

22 pounds monthly for boosters only, f2p at its finest.

So? Slightly more skill points give you absolutely nothing if you can't apply them. If you get a bunch of new players properly coordinated they can nuke you out into space ;)

Just like in EVE where you can train into a faction battleship and fit it out it with some real money PLEX transactions, but still a bunch of newbs barely flying the frigates they just got can pod you...

You really have to watch the law of unintended consequenses.

Active SP gain for passively existing in the match is going to invite AFK abuse that will require more coding to thwart which will result in an arms race of the least possible interaction to gain the passive points.

I can just see some guys training their kids to "make the little man run back and forth" in the spawn or building a modded controler to do the same automaticlly. You just don't want to go down that road. You really don't. We were complaining about all the WP farmers sitting in the back washing jeeps a couple builds ago, and this will generate more of the same. Teams with half the players AFK will generate a great deal of rage and creative TKing.

Bump up the multiplier for WP and double it for the winning team. That will encourage match participation. Make the active SP gain actually require meaningful activity.

I just knew that someone will reply with such a comment. 50% boost is way beyond "Slightly". And what about the people who actually can apply them ?. What makes you believe that a bunch of newbs will become coordinated , and a boost user will not ? It was always beyond my understanding why in every f2p game people who pay money are considered as dumbasses.

This argument is invalid, since in EVE the number of participants is almost unlimted, and DUST has like what ? 12 vs 12 ?.

And the biggest problem is, that boosters increase your cap.

P.S. 22 pound for BOOSTERS ONLY. Add a consumables price then aswell.

Everyone seems to agree that a daily cap without some kind of roll over for people who can't play daily isn't good.

You also seem to agree, mostly, that CCP deserves to make some money off this game.

You might know where this is going by now ... and the little troll in your head is starting to grow !

So what would you all think if they introduced a new AUR item, some kind of 'sp bank' that once plugged in allows your clone to begin buffering some daily caps for say 3, 7, 14 or 30 days, allowing you to come back after a weeks holiday and grind back the caps you missed out on.

Casuals can stay competitive in the long run at a cost of real money and the jobless can play all day every day in a still F2P game ... it's not pay2win so thats not an issue.

I'm not sure I'd buy them myself, we'll have to see, but it's a solution if they're that keen on keeping the daily cap.

Then she said, GÇ£Now it all goes back in the boxGÇôall those houses and hotels, all the railroads and utility companies, all that property and all that wonderful moneyGÇônow it all goes back in the box.GÇ¥ I didnGÇÖt want it to go back in the box. I wanted to leave the board out, bronze it maybe, as a memorial to my ability to play the game.

GÇ£No,GÇ¥ she said, GÇ£None of it was really yours. You got all heated up about it for a while, but it was around a long time before you sat down at the board, and it will be here after youGÇÖre gone. Players come and players go. But it all goes back in the box.GÇ¥ - John Ortberg

Has this been mentioned or am I thinking about it backwards?

Keep the following:
*Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap)
*Warpoints earned are converted into skillpoints (1 WP = 1 SP)
*Time spent in battle grants SP (1 second = 5 SP)
**Consolation prize of 50 SP per battle once the daily cap has been hit**

Having a global maximum SP. You wont cap out until you hit the global max cap, so if you get behind by a day, a week, a month, a year---you can still make up for it.

Week 1: 358,400
Week 2: 716,800
Week 3: 1,075,200
Week 4: 1,433,600
Week 10: 3,584,000
Week 26: 9,318,400
Week 52: 18,636,800

If you joined during week 10, you would not hit a cap or slow down until you reached 3,584,000 SP (or whatever the cap is for the correlating time frame) --- Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap)

Boosters can be used to expedite how long it takes someone to reach that cap. If a person has some RL things to take care of (or joins late) and falls a million SP below the cap, they can use boosters to catch up faster.

**If a person is maxed out on the GÇÿregularGÇÖ SP they can go over the global cap @ 50 SP per battle with no effect to their GÇÿregularGÇÖ SPGǪthey can still get 358,400 the following week. So they could actually go beyond the 'regular' global max SP but only 50 SP per match at a time and thus not too far ahead **

Surely the easy solution to the worry about AFKers clogging up the MCC is to just remove the SP gain just for being in a match i.e. the 1sp per 1sec. Is that part of the daily cap needed?

Jesus Christ you people are simply -NEVER- happy. Honestly, how many times is the skill cap thing going to be changed before someone just gives up and realizes that this is an MMO before it is an FPS, hence the terminology: MMOFPS, not FPSMMO.

You're not -SUPPOSED- to be able to grind, that's what Halo/Battlefield/Call of Duty is for. Those games don't have persistent worlds that you can potentially **** up because you did absolutely nothing but grind since the game came out. Nothing ever happens outside of the battle, the victories don't matter (except stats which I doubt any of you are statisticians so those don't matter either) and further more THERE IS NO VIRTUAL ECONOMY.

You are going to have to accept the limitations and if you can't, find a different game. Skill caps are NECESSARY for games like these, there is no "level" system like World of Warcraft or Skyrim - there are specializations that you can choose. You're not MEANT to get all of them and the reward for playing CONSTANTLY is NOT in the form of skills, it's in the form of ISK and Assets.

The beneath quote is the best way I can honestly describe how things work and if you can't wrap your heads around it then you're playing the wrong game

they just need to make it to where. after you hit the cap, you only can get as many skill points as you get warpoints. So you still get rewarded for playing good after you hit the cap.

There should be no cap for the SP earned through WP. Only the SP earned for being in battle should be limited to 27000 without or 36000 with boosters. Without boosters you should get 5 SP/sec, with 6 SP/sec. Together with 24000 passive SP you get 51000 or 60000 SP a day + your actual SP earned through WP.

I mean why should those who fight much better get the same amount of SP as a guy who cant hit a tank with his AR.

In which sort of MMO a newbie can catch up a 2 years-old player ?

This is a non sense, as DUST is name as MMO/FPS.

Add to this that DUST need to be on the same SP gain than EVE...

Well, it's not perfect yet, but it sounds good to me. Just fix the instant battle, where proto suits 10M SP can't face beginner with milicia 1M SP. That's all, no matter the way SPs are earn.

I repeat : it's a MMO, you need to play everyday, doing special missions, dealing with diplomatie, industry etc ... to be the best (on SP side ;)). It is not just a FPS.

The only way newbie can catch up a vet : the vet doesn"t use boosters anymore, newbie does. Oups, sorry, it's a MMO/FPS F2P !!! Welcome to FPS players in the MMO world !!!

... Because of balancing..?

Disagree Aeon. It's Dust, not EvE. In EvE I can avoid PvP. I can scan, mine, produce, do planetary interaction and more. Sorry, but Dust is pure conflict. Even PvE. In EvE, continued character growth = -ú10 a month.

I want to hear a good reason why people DON'T want nOObs in 2 years to catch you for total SP? There's no GOOD reason when it's not a subscription, and I've not seen anyone say anything except "this is EVE" which is bollocks.

I echo almost everything Mavado says on this topic. Us diehard MAG vets know a bit about keeping people playing the same 3 maps for 3 years ;) Player retention/attraction is going to be a VERY important factor in Dust. Unless in 2 years y'all still want Dark Cloud and the Zitros throwing poo at each other.

No. But i think that you should get those SP you fought for. The SP you get for being in the battle arent really earned by you. You get them if you stay in the MCC and run circles aswell as you fight on the battlefield. It would be just your WP you get always so just about 1500 SP.

Then why the **** should I play for two years when some ******* just picking up the game can ace me in less time?

Edit: I'd also like to bring up the high-sec / low-sec / null-sec arguments which (should) have variable rewards based on the risk. If home dude wants to "catch up" he can go out to null-sec and fight the good fight. These battles are in high-sec and if we're both in the same playing field there SHOULD NOT BE ANY REASON that he should catch up. None. Defeats the entire purpose. It's just rewarding people who have absolutely nothing to do with their time because they have a pension fund.

See my post on reversing the reward tables. Would make a lot more sense.

...

And we're deploying in a world (New Eden) where the most important is not the SPs, but ISK... When you hit the cap, then take your milicia stuff and go farm some, for you or your corp.

...

Quoted for Truth.

Trust us EVE players, we know what's what. Skill Points aren't important, Interstellar Kredits (ISK) are. Go ask any EVE player who is the best and why. I seriously doubt you will get any answers involving skill points. It's all about the Corps they run, the ISK they've stolen, the loot they've pillaged, the value of their bounty, the ISK loss of ships they've destroyed. EPeen in EVE is ISK.

ISK is what differentiates a noob from a veteran. It's like real life. No one really cares about your education. All they care about is how much money you have.

So please stop this "SP is the most important thing!" rant, accept the cap, and go make ISK. Because I don't care if you have 8 million or just 80 SP - whoever has the most ISK is the better player.

Quoted for Truth.

Trust us EVE players, we know what's what. Skill Points aren't important, Interstellar Kredits (ISK) are. Go ask any EVE player who is the best and why. I seriously doubt you will get any answers involving skill points. It's all about the Corps they run, the ISK they've stolen, the loot they've pillaged, the value of their bounty, the ISK loss of ships they've destroyed. EPeen in EVE is ISK.

ISK is what differentiates a noob from a veteran. It's like real life. No one really cares about your education. All they care about is how much money you have.

So please stop this "SP is the most important thing!" rant, accept the cap, and go make ISK. Because I don't care if you have 8 million or just 80 SP - whoever has the most ISK is the better player.

Good news for everyone.

The server will be linked to TQ this week which means we can atleast organise a Jita riot. For all those who don't play Eve, CCP famously do not listen to their players about game mechanics, regardless of giving us a feedback forum, and as a result there have been a couple of riots in Eve over the past few years.

Eve players log on, shoot the statue in Jita and overload the server. This has caused the formation of the CSM, a group of Eve players who represent us similar to a union.

This is hard proof that CCP are not listening to you, regardless of how good your suggestions are, they do not care... Afterall, their developers obviously know better than the collective thoughts made up of the few thousand people playing the game.

The SP cap is still a load of rubbish as it makes the game pointless for anyone who wants to play more than 90 mins in one day and it now puts even more stress on the purchasing of boosts driving more of a rift between those who pay and those who don't.

Alas, we have to conceed that there is nothing we can do about this until the server goes live. Then we can deal with it the only way CCP is prepared to hear us.

Really..?

CCP implementing a skill cap = CCP ignoring us completely = We need to riot?

Wow. I'm a software developer and thank god I went into the Oil Industry instead of Video Games. People don't bat an eye when gas prices go up, but implement a skill cap in a Free to Play Game and people turn insane.

Hilarity.

i've posted here with additional info on how this affects people who can't play every day - in short passive SP boosters are needed if you can't play daily

Everyone seems to agree that a daily cap without some kind of roll over for people who can't play daily isn't good.

You also seem to agree, mostly, that CCP deserves to make some money off this game.

You might know where this is going by now ... and the little troll in your head is starting to grow !

So what would you all think if they introduced a new AUR item, some kind of 'sp bank' that once plugged in allows your clone to begin buffering some daily caps for say 3, 7, 14 or 30 days, allowing you to come back after a weeks holiday and grind back the caps you missed out on.

Casuals can stay competitive in the long run at a cost of real money and the jobless can play all day every day in a still F2P game ... it's not pay2win so thats not an issue.

I'm not sure I'd buy them myself, we'll have to see, but it's a solution if they're that keen on keeping the daily cap.

well looks like buying boosters are worthless now. CCP wont have my monies :D

In which sort of MMO a newbie can catch up a 2 years-old player ?

This is a non sense, as DUST is name as MMO/FPS.

Add to this that DUST need to be on the same SP gain than EVE...

Well, it's not perfect yet, but it sounds good to me. Just fix the instant battle, where proto suits 10M SP can't face beginner with milicia 1M SP. That's all, no matter the way SPs are earn.

I repeat : it's a MMO, you need to play everyday, doing special missions, dealing with diplomatie, industry etc ... to be the best (on SP side ;)). It is not just a FPS.

The only way newbie can catch up a vet : the vet doesn"t use boosters anymore, newbie does. Oups, sorry, it's a MMO/FPS F2P !!! Welcome to FPS players in the MMO world !!!

I agree with rolling cap because I can't play on Mondays and Wednesdays and probably won't play some days neither, so it would benefit me to equalize the playing field.

However, I feel like this SP cap is somewhat tolerable. It's slow, only because we perceive it to be slow. It gives a good buffer for the players who go against people playing before them. It also promotes tactical play, because people with lots of SP and access to top notch things can just mop the floor, such as Exmaple Core (you're my hero in dust btw, as you set the bar high for when I go to kill you). A daily cap also makes sure that at least everyday you can play a little dust and have it be worthwhile, but again the rolling cap would be good there.

It also supports the CCP business model, which is to have a good game that's free to play but the most attractive things on the market cost real currency (SP Booster), so that means CCP will actually put some time into Dust should this cap attract money from boosters. You have to understand that they are a company and are out for money too, but they're more independent and friendly than others. So at least money will be flowing through Dust.

The SP cap also makes the game more difficult. You're going to have to make decisions and you're going to have to deal with their consequences, instead of just blowing 12K in SP because you have made 20K+ in one match. So it promotes specialization which=more dynamic battlefields, as the people can't be gods against everything at least for a long time.

There could be a new booster added aswell. It increases the amount of days thats remaining SP get added.

Here are the details regarding the skill point reward system change at downtime today. To make comparisons between the old and the new system easier, weGÇÖve included outlines of both below.

Old system:

Weekly cycle (reset every Tuesday)
Weekly allowance of 190,400 SP per week (7x 27,200 SP, hard-capped)
Diminishing returns on warpoints and time spent GÇô the more you play, the less you get (until you hit the cap)
No consolation prize GÇô once you hit the cap, you get nothing


New system:

Daily cycle (reset at downtime)
Daily allowance of 27,200 SP per day (hard-capped)
Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap)
- Warpoints earned are converted into skillpoints (1 WP = 1 SP)
- Time spent in battle grants SP (1 second = 5 SP)
- Consolation prize of 50 SP per battle once the daily cap has been hit

---

Seriously? 27,200 SP a day?

This translates to a maximum of 90 minutes of in-game time per day, less when you factor in war points and whatever else other than time spent in battle that gives SP, making the grind for SP even more tedious and removing any incentive for players to continue playing after the cap has been hit (which a good player could hit in just a handful of games...).