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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
CookieStein
G I A N T
62
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Posted - 2013.01.08 21:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
I honestly can not be bothered to read through all the QQ crap that I'm sure this thread is already full of so pre-apologies if my view has already been covered.
I am SO tired of the flip-flop QQ from a majority of the forum base, most of you guys seem to have less integrity than an American politician.
"Weekly cap sucks, I'm done in 2/3 days", "Daily cap sucks, I wanna be able to no-life grind", "Don't gimp how much I can play", "Waaah don't cater to casuals"...on and on and on.
Our skill point gain must somehow line up with the time based gain in Eve, one universe remember. No-life grinders will not be happy with any kind of hard cap so tough crap HTFU and try having fun.
A daily cap IS unfair to those that can't be on EVERY DAY. Weekly or daily cap makes no difference to core players so stop being selfish QQ whoa is me kittens.
Accept there will be a cap. Make it weekly so it is fair for the majority and let's be done with the kittening tears over the kittening cap.
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Stormy Geddon
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
39
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 22:10:00 -
[122] - Quote
So... Much... Kittening. They're trying different systems to see what works, people. Settle down. Express your opinion and the devs will consider what you say before ignoring you. On that note, we need either a roll over or a weekly cap. I'm good with the rest of how they changed it, with the linear rewards and such. A daily grind is too much for a lot of people who have things like jobs, families, or hobbies other than Dust. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
393
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 22:11:00 -
[123] - Quote
Has this been mentioned or am I thinking about it backwards?
Keep the following: *Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap) *Warpoints earned are converted into skillpoints (1 WP = 1 SP) *Time spent in battle grants SP (1 second = 5 SP) **Consolation prize of 50 SP per battle once the daily cap has been hit**
Having a global maximum SP. You wont cap out until you hit the global max cap, so if you get behind by a day, a week, a month, a year---you can still make up for it.
Week 1: 358,400 Week 2: 716,800 Week 3: 1,075,200 Week 4: 1,433,600 Week 10: 3,584,000 Week 26: 9,318,400 Week 52: 18,636,800
If you joined during week 10, you would not hit a cap or slow down until you reached 3,584,000 SP (or whatever the cap is for the correlating time frame) --- Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap)
Boosters can be used to expedite how long it takes someone to reach that cap. If a person has some RL things to take care of (or joins late) and falls a million SP below the cap, they can use boosters to catch up faster.
**If a person is maxed out on the GÇÿregularGÇÖ SP they can go over the global cap @ 50 SP per battle with no effect to their GÇÿregularGÇÖ SPGǪthey can still get 358,400 the following week. So they could actually go beyond the 'regular' global max SP but only 50 SP per match at a time and thus not too far ahead ** |
KingBabar
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
443
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 22:26:00 -
[124] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Everyone seems to agree that a daily cap without some kind of roll over for people who can't play daily isn't good.
You also seem to agree, mostly, that CCP deserves to make some money off this game.
You might know where this is going by now ... and the little troll in your head is starting to grow !
So what would you all think if they introduced a new AUR item, some kind of 'sp bank' that once plugged in allows your clone to begin buffering some daily caps for say 3, 7, 14 or 30 days, allowing you to come back after a weeks holiday and grind back the caps you missed out on.
Casuals can stay competitive in the long run at a cost of real money and the jobless can play all day every day in a still F2P game ... it's not pay2win so thats not an issue.
I'm not sure I'd buy them myself, we'll have to see, but it's a solution if they're that keen on keeping the daily cap. +1 |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
163
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 22:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
Well ask and you shall receive i say.
People wanted this daily format because they wanted something to "accomplish/earn" everyday well now you got it. Congrats!
As for my opinion, im okay with the daily cap or the weekly cap but there HAS TO BE A ROLLOVER. If this isnt done you will without doubt cripple everyone except the daily grinder. It has always been the time issue with the SP system not the cap itself. THe inability for a person to "catch" up for time missed is always been the problem.
Its simple miss a day, a week, month or a year. You can earn SP until you hit the CAP.
Now given that boosters increase the CAP how rollover works whether the amount you can catch up on is the amount without booster or with booster on but only while you have a booster or IDK. I leave that you to figure out but it needs to be in here or your game will create a noose around itself and will absolutely deter any new players coming into the game after a set period of time likely the first 3-6 months because after that GL to any poor shmuck who tries to compete.
Edit-- I saw a few posts ago that someone said their will be a rollover system but its hasnt been implemented yet, ive searched the forums and the blogs and could not find that so if someone could please link that thanks. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 23:30:00 -
[126] - Quote
Best possible system has already been proposed by Rasatsu. And I mean best in a measurable, mathematical sense:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=433498#post433498
.....further elucidation from OP:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=435669#post435669
.....and support from yours truly:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=435873#post435873
It's the right thing to do. |
Sytonis Auran
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.08 23:49:00 -
[127] - Quote
Surely the easy solution to the worry about AFKers clogging up the MCC is to just remove the SP gain just for being in a match i.e. the 1sp per 1sec. Is that part of the daily cap needed? |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 01:36:00 -
[128] - Quote
posted this months ago...............
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44696&find=unread |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 04:23:00 -
[129] - Quote
Jesus Christ you people are simply -NEVER- happy. Honestly, how many times is the skill cap thing going to be changed before someone just gives up and realizes that this is an MMO before it is an FPS, hence the terminology: MMOFPS, not FPSMMO.
You're not -SUPPOSED- to be able to grind, that's what Halo/Battlefield/Call of Duty is for. Those games don't have persistent worlds that you can potentially **** up because you did absolutely nothing but grind since the game came out. Nothing ever happens outside of the battle, the victories don't matter (except stats which I doubt any of you are statisticians so those don't matter either) and further more THERE IS NO VIRTUAL ECONOMY.
You are going to have to accept the limitations and if you can't, find a different game. Skill caps are NECESSARY for games like these, there is no "level" system like World of Warcraft or Skyrim - there are specializations that you can choose. You're not MEANT to get all of them and the reward for playing CONSTANTLY is NOT in the form of skills, it's in the form of ISK and Assets.
The beneath quote is the best way I can honestly describe how things work and if you can't wrap your heads around it then you're playing the wrong game
Quote:Then she said, GÇ£Now it all goes back in the boxGÇôall those houses and hotels, all the railroads and utility companies, all that property and all that wonderful moneyGÇônow it all goes back in the box.GÇ¥ I didnGÇÖt want it to go back in the box. I wanted to leave the board out, bronze it maybe, as a memorial to my ability to play the game.
GÇ£No,GÇ¥ she said, GÇ£None of it was really yours. You got all heated up about it for a while, but it was around a long time before you sat down at the board, and it will be here after youGÇÖre gone. Players come and players go. But it all goes back in the box.GÇ¥ - John Ortberg
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Overlord Ulath
Doomheim
85
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 04:42:00 -
[130] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:Has this been mentioned or am I thinking about it backwards?
Keep the following: *Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap) *Warpoints earned are converted into skillpoints (1 WP = 1 SP) *Time spent in battle grants SP (1 second = 5 SP) **Consolation prize of 50 SP per battle once the daily cap has been hit**
Having a global maximum SP. You wont cap out until you hit the global max cap, so if you get behind by a day, a week, a month, a year---you can still make up for it.
Week 1: 358,400 Week 2: 716,800 Week 3: 1,075,200 Week 4: 1,433,600 Week 10: 3,584,000 Week 26: 9,318,400 Week 52: 18,636,800
If you joined during week 10, you would not hit a cap or slow down until you reached 3,584,000 SP (or whatever the cap is for the correlating time frame) --- Linear returns to warpoints and time spent GÇô the better you play, the more you earn (until you hit the cap)
Boosters can be used to expedite how long it takes someone to reach that cap. If a person has some RL things to take care of (or joins late) and falls a million SP below the cap, they can use boosters to catch up faster.
**If a person is maxed out on the GÇÿregularGÇÖ SP they can go over the global cap @ 50 SP per battle with no effect to their GÇÿregularGÇÖ SPGǪthey can still get 358,400 the following week. So they could actually go beyond the 'regular' global max SP but only 50 SP per match at a time and thus not too far ahead ** Perfectly stated.Exactly what is needed. Though I still wish they would return it to a weekly cap, this would negate the need for the weekly cap return. This single post should have it's own thread... |
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Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 07:13:00 -
[131] - Quote
Alright so after a few games, here's my official standpoint on this..
Considering that I've played six matches and statistically hit my (daily) cap, I'm starting to notice a slight trend here.. (keep in mind I'm using an active booster) the time was devised by subtracting the amount of war-points, dividing the remaining skill points by 5 (the amount of seconds) and then divided again by 60 (seconds per minute).
Match 1.) 9,486 SP -:- 1,080 WP -:- 28 minutes Match 2.) 5,935 SP -:- 1,029 WP -:- 16 minutes Match 3.) 5,767 SP -:- 525 WP -:- 18 minutes Match 4.) 9,064 SP -:- 975 WP -:- 27 minutes Match 5.) 6,648 SP -:- 1,140 WP -:- 18 minutes Match 6.) 3,898 SP -:- 1,350 WP -:- ???? <--- (Hit SP Cap)
Alright, so what do we know? Well, 1 WP = 1 SP and 1 Second = 5 SP. With that in mind, we can successfully say that War Points only account (by my match statistics) for 9% - 17% of the actual SP gain. That's... Not much, when you think about it... I'm getting more SP for actually being in the battle than I am successfully doing anything (and as a Logistics player, I'm doing quite a bit).
My honest opinion? Reverse the two. 1 War Point = 5 Skill Points and 1 Second = 1 Skill Point.
With the above formula, a thirty minute match would warrant 1,800 SP for actually being in the match and the warpoints (let's say 1,080 WP like I had in Match One) would net you 7,200 SP total. This would allow for more influence on your actual worth in the battle rather than how long the battle was drawn out. |
Lion Redstar
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
66
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 08:51:00 -
[132] - Quote
Another good model here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=49107&find=unread I have a spreadsheet updated with the current SP numbers here: http://goo.gl/SpiqT |
Lorpsajee Nos
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:21:00 -
[133] - Quote
It doesn't work. Just started an ambush match but didn't even get chance to spawn and still get 248 sp! Yet when I play and have a good match (for me anyway) I'm still only getting about 2000 sp. With the current system its gonna take weeks to upgrade any skills. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:27:00 -
[134] - Quote
Sytonis Auran wrote:Surely the easy solution to the worry about AFKers clogging up the MCC is to just remove the SP gain just for being in a match i.e. the 1sp per 1sec. Is that part of the daily cap needed?
Or add an AFK detection\kick system like in most shooters. If the guy has to stay in front of its screen to be AFK, it will certainly be a lot less appealing |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:44:00 -
[135] - Quote
Now I AFK mine on EvE so I can AFK SPwhore in Dust. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
220
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:51:00 -
[136] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Jesus Christ you people are simply -NEVER- happy. Honestly, how many times is the skill cap thing going to be changed before someone just gives up and realizes that this is an MMO before it is an FPS, hence the terminology: MMOFPS, not FPSMMO. You're not -SUPPOSED- to be able to grind, that's what Halo/Battlefield/Call of Duty is for. Those games don't have persistent worlds that you can potentially **** up because you did absolutely nothing but grind since the game came out. Nothing ever happens outside of the battle, the victories don't matter (except stats which I doubt any of you are statisticians so those don't matter either) and further more THERE IS NO VIRTUAL ECONOMY. You are going to have to accept the limitations and if you can't, find a different game. Skill caps are NECESSARY for games like these, there is no "level" system like World of Warcraft or Skyrim - there are specializations that you can choose. You're not MEANT to get all of them and the reward for playing CONSTANTLY is NOT in the form of skills, it's in the form of ISK and Assets. The beneath quote is the best way I can honestly describe how things work and if you can't wrap your heads around it then you're playing the wrong game Quote:Then she said, GÇ£Now it all goes back in the boxGÇôall those houses and hotels, all the railroads and utility companies, all that property and all that wonderful moneyGÇônow it all goes back in the box.GÇ¥ I didnGÇÖt want it to go back in the box. I wanted to leave the board out, bronze it maybe, as a memorial to my ability to play the game.
GÇ£No,GÇ¥ she said, GÇ£None of it was really yours. You got all heated up about it for a while, but it was around a long time before you sat down at the board, and it will be here after youGÇÖre gone. Players come and players go. But it all goes back in the box.GÇ¥ - John Ortberg
Aeon Amadi seems to be the only person here looking at the big picture - especially with the nerf on higher teired gear, SP is really not that important. Having 10 mil SP against 5 mil SP will mean basically nothing. Getting SP is not the point of this game - or at least will not be when they implement the whole galactic war stuff.
People have gotten far too used to SP being the only point of playing Dust. All along the intention has been to create a persistent world where WHAT YOU DO matters. If you AFK to gain SP, it will not matter because your team will still lose whatever district you were supposed to be protecting/taking. The objectives are changing, so stop trying to grind your way to the top and prepare for war. |
Heavenly Daughter
CrimeWave Syndicate
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:54:00 -
[137] - Quote
copy left wrote:they just need to make it to where. after you hit the cap, you only can get as many skill points as you get warpoints. So you still get rewarded for playing good after you hit the cap.
This is misleading, the points you get after reaching the cap is 50 and that is all you get despite blowing up as many turrets as you like or as many kills as you can manage, 50 SP is all you will get.
1 kill is all it will take, rest of game sit in barge lol.
H.D |
Heavenly Daughter
CrimeWave Syndicate
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 09:56:00 -
[138] - Quote
I hate to say I told you so........
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=42193&find=unread
H.D |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 10:41:00 -
[139] - Quote
Universal rolling cap. Easy. Get it sorted. Do you actually understand how FPS player retention works? No? Jolly good... |
GLOO GLOO
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
217
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 10:57:00 -
[140] - Quote
In which sort of MMO a newbie can catch up a 2 years-old player ?
This is a non sense, as DUST is name as MMO/FPS.
Add to this that DUST need to be on the same SP gain than EVE...
Well, it's not perfect yet, but it sounds good to me. Just fix the instant battle, where proto suits 10M SP can't face beginner with milicia 1M SP. That's all, no matter the way SPs are earn.
I repeat : it's a MMO, you need to play everyday, doing special missions, dealing with diplomatie, industry etc ... to be the best (on SP side ;)). It is not just a FPS.
The only way newbie can catch up a vet : the vet doesn"t use boosters anymore, newbie does. Oups, sorry, it's a MMO/FPS F2P !!! Welcome to FPS players in the MMO world !!! |
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 11:05:00 -
[141] - Quote
Being an MMO doesn't mean you can't catch the top boys. Look @ WoW, black prophecy, any game with a level system. You just have to grind hard. Caps dont encourage anyone to play.
Universal rolling cap ASAP. |
GLOO GLOO
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
217
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 11:33:00 -
[142] - Quote
What I meant is everyone here seems to want a 1 week player being at the same skills level of a 2 years player...
Yes, you need to grind, and as I said it's not perfect, but on the good way ... But, why would it be easier for newbie to grind than for vets at the release ? Another non sense... |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 12:41:00 -
[143] - Quote
It's Eve Online. You're not supposed to be able to catch up with them. You're supposed to match the base line skills than out-specialize them. We can both have Mechanics 5, both run a Prototype Assault Suit and if I just happen to run out of ammunition for my Duvolle Assault Rifle (and not have a nanohive of course) you could very easily take me out with those Nova Knives you put so many skills into because I can't fight back.
That's the reward for being a veteran player. I have more skills toward what I want to do. If what you want to happens to be the counter to my fit (Anti-vehicle vs vehicle argument) than congratulations you just found a niche that doesn't require you to "catch up" with me.
Edit: Or here's an idea - get my attention and then dive behind a corner where you've got some well placed remote explosives (since no-one uses them anymore despite their gorgeous effectiveness). Quick and easy way to off a veteran player in a hurry, and requires -far- less skills than a prototype build. |
AmlSeb
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 13:10:00 -
[144] - Quote
There should be no cap for the SP earned through WP. Only the SP earned for being in battle should be limited to 27000 without or 36000 with boosters. Without boosters you should get 5 SP/sec, with 6 SP/sec. Together with 24000 passive SP you get 51000 or 60000 SP a day + your actual SP earned through WP.
I mean why should those who fight much better get the same amount of SP as a guy who cant hit a tank with his AR. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 13:12:00 -
[145] - Quote
AmlSeb wrote:There should be no cap for the SP earned through WP. Only the SP earned for being in battle should be limited to 27000 without or 36000 with boosters. Without boosters you should get 5 SP/sec, with 6 SP/sec. Together with 24000 passive SP you get 51000 or 60000 SP a day + your actual SP earned through WP.
I mean why should those who fight much better get the same amount of SP as a guy who cant hit a tank with his AR.
... Because of balancing..? |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 13:34:00 -
[146] - Quote
GLOO GLOO wrote:In which sort of MMO a newbie can catch up a 2 years-old player ?
This is a non sense, as DUST is name as MMO/FPS.
Add to this that DUST need to be on the same SP gain than EVE...
Well, it's not perfect yet, but it sounds good to me. Just fix the instant battle, where proto suits 10M SP can't face beginner with milicia 1M SP. That's all, no matter the way SPs are earn.
I repeat : it's a MMO, you need to play everyday, doing special missions, dealing with diplomatie, industry etc ... to be the best (on SP side ;)). It is not just a FPS.
The only way newbie can catch up a vet : the vet doesn"t use boosters anymore, newbie does. Oups, sorry, it's a MMO/FPS F2P !!! Welcome to FPS players in the MMO world !!!
if u wanna attract and retain new players they better be a way for ppl to technically catch up (realistically it wont happen because no one can no life that bad to catch up to a 2 year old character that plays regularly)
if someone joins the game months down the line or a year down the line to repeatedly get raped thats not fun so they move on. This game will end up exactly like MAG but worse in terms of player retention if these issues of new vs old + keepin hardcore and casual satisfied arent sorted.
Sorry i love dust but there are better games atm out there to play and i doubt dust will match the quality of those games from an FPS standpoint so CCP selling point is to keep ppl hooked on all the other parts of the game which arent even in yet
This games success or failure will be judged in open beta when the masses get in whether ppl/ccp like it or not and if its not good ur game has already failed in the eyes of the public |
Cyn Bruin
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
655
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 13:54:00 -
[147] - Quote
If CCP is looking for only EVE players to play their FPS, they just need to keep doing what they are doing with the SP system.
Whether your a teenager or a 40 something FPS player you will not stick with game if advancement of your character takes multiple years. FPS players aren't wired the like that.
The again, I'm sure thats what EVE players would like, to be able to take their ball and go into a corner and control all the bonus's DUST will bring EVE side.
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Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 13:55:00 -
[148] - Quote
Disagree Aeon. It's Dust, not EvE. In EvE I can avoid PvP. I can scan, mine, produce, do planetary interaction and more. Sorry, but Dust is pure conflict. Even PvE. In EvE, continued character growth = -ú10 a month.
I want to hear a good reason why people DON'T want nOObs in 2 years to catch you for total SP? There's no GOOD reason when it's not a subscription, and I've not seen anyone say anything except "this is EVE" which is bollocks.
I echo almost everything Mavado says on this topic. Us diehard MAG vets know a bit about keeping people playing the same 3 maps for 3 years ;) Player retention/attraction is going to be a VERY important factor in Dust. Unless in 2 years y'all still want Dark Cloud and the Zitros throwing poo at each other. |
AmlSeb
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 13:58:00 -
[149] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:AmlSeb wrote:There should be no cap for the SP earned through WP. Only the SP earned for being in battle should be limited to 27000 without or 36000 with boosters. Without boosters you should get 5 SP/sec, with 6 SP/sec. Together with 24000 passive SP you get 51000 or 60000 SP a day + your actual SP earned through WP.
I mean why should those who fight much better get the same amount of SP as a guy who cant hit a tank with his AR. ... Because of balancing..?
No. But i think that you should get those SP you fought for. The SP you get for being in the battle arent really earned by you. You get them if you stay in the MCC and run circles aswell as you fight on the battlefield. It would be just your WP you get always so just about 1500 SP. |
Grav Reviera
Dragon Black Ops
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.09 14:36:00 -
[150] - Quote
this argument is ********, first off this isnt eve its dust, samecompany COMPLETELY different play style, anyways honestly I dont care how the exp is given out, just as long as I can train all the possable skills without being stone walled from my skills. if you dont want to have exp then use eve's skill system, either that you can go play some other game. problem salved, IF you're progressing then you should not be complaining, fact is if you dont get exp you get isk and thats enough to keep your weapons and armor stalked up to get more exp, factis you should still have your starter sht, otherwise you fked up. |
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