DUST Search - CCP's New SP Cap...

Sha Kharn Clone wrote:

Arramakaian Eka wrote:

CCP Frame wrote:

Hi guys,

Here is further clarification to the Skill Points gain system changes:

If you get the active booster the cap is raised to 40.800 SP per day.
The numbers are only for the active skill gains.
Passive gain will still be at 24.000 SP per day, or 36.000 SP per day if you're running a booster.

Thank you for your feedback.

So that's a double-incentive for booster use: not only do you get a boost in XP, but you also get a boost in overall XP you can gain.

I'm sure it sounds great to someone with an MBA in marketing but poor understanding of FPS gamers.

Lolz nice post +1 Big smile

Issues with almost everyone IGÇÖve talk to about this and thatGÇÖs a lot of peeps already is not the gains but the loss if you donGÇÖt play and how this will screw over casual players now that your forcing us all to play every single day.

CCP can you give us clarification on development of a rolling pool or anything? Some people have lives and like to go on holiday occasionally.
This system is amazing for my corp if IGÇÖm honest because itGÇÖs full of no lifers but we would actually like some people to fight against. If you keep this rubbish then itGÇÖs going to be SI vs WTF every dam game with no new blood ever
se with almost everyone I've talk to about this and thats alot of peeps already is not the gains but the loss if you dont play and how this will screwover casual players now that your forcing us all to play every single day.

CCP can you give us clarification on development of a rolling pool or anything ? Some people have lives and like to go on holiday occasionaly.

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Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:22:00 - [91] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: CCP Frame wrote: Hi guys, Here is further clarification to the Skill Points gain system changes: If you get the active booster the cap is raised to 40.800 SP per day. The numbers are only for the active skill gains. Passive gain will still be at 24.000 SP per day, or 36.000 SP per day if you're running a booster. Thank you for your feedback. So that's a double-incentive for booster use: not only do you get a boost in XP, but you also get a boost in overall XP you can gain. I'm sure it sounds great to someone with an MBA in marketing but poor understanding of FPS gamers. They have to make money somehow and with the prices of the Aurum cost for those boosters it's about the same as a subscription to Eve Online. Only, yanno, the game you're playing is free so... Whatever.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:25:00 - [92] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: CCP Frame wrote: Hi guys, Here is further clarification to the Skill Points gain system changes: If you get the active booster the cap is raised to 40.800 SP per day. The numbers are only for the active skill gains. Passive gain will still be at 24.000 SP per day, or 36.000 SP per day if you're running a booster. Thank you for your feedback. So that's a double-incentive for booster use: not only do you get a boost in XP, but you also get a boost in overall XP you can gain. I'm sure it sounds great to someone with an MBA in marketing but poor understanding of FPS gamers. Lolz nice post +1 Issues with almost everyone IGÇÖve talk to about this and thatGÇÖs a lot of peeps already is not the gains but the loss if you donGÇÖt play and how this will screw over casual players now that your forcing us all to play every single day. CCP can you give us clarification on development of a rolling pool or anything? Some people have lives and like to go on holiday occasionally. This system is amazing for my corp if IGÇÖm honest because itGÇÖs full of no lifers but we would actually like some people to fight against. If you keep this rubbish then itGÇÖs going to be SI vs WTF every dam game with no new blood ever se with almost everyone I've talk to about this and thats alot of peeps already is not the gains but the loss if you dont play and how this will screwover casual players now that your forcing us all to play every single day. CCP can you give us clarification on development of a rolling pool or anything ? Some people have lives and like to go on holiday occasionaly. Not really... An hour and a half is nothing, you spend more time watching a feature length movie. At least this way I know what I have to accomplish and not blindly playing throughout the week wondering if I'm hitting my cap or not. In before "stop punishing hardcore players" whining. EDIT: Also, that hour and a half isn't taking into account warpoint accrual. So you're -going- to be spending a lot less time if you actually... Yanno... Use a repair tool/nanite injector while you're mercilessly killing people...
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:25:00 - [93] - Quote Some quick math: Daily Cap: 27200 1 second = 5 SP 1 Minute = 300 SP 1 Hour = 18,000 SP 1 1/2 Hours = 27,200 SP (give or take) Hit cap via half warpoints/half time spent = 45 minutes, 13,600 warpoints. Total number gained per day with both active/passive boosters: 76,800 per week: 537,600 Without: 51,200 per week: 358,400 percentage increase: 66.66%
UnknowingTea Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 21	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:31:00 - [94] - Quote I'm gonna add my name to the list of people who prefers a weekly cap to a daily cap. Due to my schedule, I tend to play for about 4+ hours one day a week, and then another day or two for about an hour or so. I effectively have three jobs (work, school, family), and there is only one day per week when I am off from all three. I liked the idea of buying a 24-hour booster for the one day I played hard so I could get a good chunk of the weekly SP. In the new system, I feel like I will put just as much time in as folks who play 1.5 hours most days, but I will get far less SP. If the goal is to encourage people to spend more time playing (and more time buying AUR items), then this change has the opposite effect in my case. On my day off, I am more likely to log off after I hit the cap. I won't play every day because I don't really have that option. I do, however, like the slowed progression and the increase in the passive/active SP ratio.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:36:00 - [95] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Arramakaian Eka wrote: CCP Frame wrote: Hi guys, Here is further clarification to the Skill Points gain system changes: If you get the active booster the cap is raised to 40.800 SP per day. The numbers are only for the active skill gains. Passive gain will still be at 24.000 SP per day, or 36.000 SP per day if you're running a booster. Thank you for your feedback. So that's a double-incentive for booster use: not only do you get a boost in XP, but you also get a boost in overall XP you can gain. I'm sure it sounds great to someone with an MBA in marketing but poor understanding of FPS gamers. They have to make money somehow and with the prices of the Aurum cost for those boosters it's about the same as a subscription to Eve Online. Only, yanno, the game you're playing is free so... Whatever. I have nothing against them making money. But there is a great thread where someone did the math, and running a Dust merc goes into tens of euros a month even for casual playing, even if you don't run in AUR gear. No MMO does that, and no F2P game does that. It is not a reasonable expectation. And I paid for a Mercenary pack (which I can't use thanks to CCP but that's another matter).
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:36:00 - [96] - Quote Aeon Amadi an hour and half playing dust is a long time when Im suppost to be on a diving holiday. In other news I just sat in the war barge watching my poor team struggle with a man down and I earnt 9000 sp. RESULT! This system does not punish the hardcore you plonker.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:42:00 - [97] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Aeon Amadi an hour and half playing dust is a long time when Im suppost to be on a diving holiday. In other news I just sat in the war barge watching my poor team struggle with a man down and I earnt 9000 sp. RESULT! This system does not punish the hardcore you plonker. I never said that it did punish the hardcore... Read what I posted better dude... An hour and a half MINUS THE WAR POINTS EARNED. If you're a Logistics player, that time goes down dramatically.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:44:00 - [98] - Quote CCP, how very Serpentis of you. Pushing boosters on DUST junkies who actually honor their RL commitments. Still, it's not like you're putting a gun to our heads. No, you sell the guns to a cadre of no-life grinding mercs. You sell them the guns, you sell us the boosters. Well done.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:51:00 - [99] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Aeon Amadi an hour and half playing dust is a long time when Im suppost to be on a diving holiday. In other news I just sat in the war barge watching my poor team struggle with a man down and I earnt 9000 sp. RESULT! This system does not punish the hardcore you plonker. I never said that it did punish the hardcore... Read what I posted better dude... An hour and a half MINUS THE WAR POINTS EARNED. If you're a Logistics player, that time goes down dramatically. Right got you i miss read. Sorry I was busy packing my PS3 to take to to my sisters wedding.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:53:00 - [100] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: CCP, how very Serpentis of you. Pushing boosters on DUST junkies who actually honor their RL commitments. Still, it's not like you're putting a gun to our heads. No, you sell the guns to a cadre of no-life grinding mercs. You sell them the guns, you sell us the boosters. Well done. Always loved the Serpentis. If their space wasn't controlled by the Goonies (and/or their coalition, who knows these days honestly) I'd be out there making boosters myself.

The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:54:00 - [101] - Quote when you run 1 week passive+active SP boosters you are 3 1/2 days ahead of a guy who doesnt use them.
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2013.01.08 15:59:00 - [102] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: when you run 1 week passive+active SP boosters you are 3 1/2 days ahead of a guy who doesnt use them. Yes, 3.5 days would be 50% of 7 days...
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.08 16:01:00 - [103] - Quote KryptixX wrote: The dark cloud wrote: when you run 1 week passive+active SP boosters you are 3 1/2 days ahead of a guy who doesnt use them. Yes, 3.5 days would be 50% of 7 days... Logic strikes again.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.01.08 16:03:00 - [104] - Quote Everyone seems to agree that a daily cap without some kind of roll over for people who can't play daily isn't good. You also seem to agree, mostly, that CCP deserves to make some money off this game. You might know where this is going by now ... and the little troll in your head is starting to grow ! So what would you all think if they introduced a new AUR item, some kind of 'sp bank' that once plugged in allows your clone to begin buffering some daily caps for say 3, 7, 14 or 30 days, allowing you to come back after a weeks holiday and grind back the caps you missed out on. Casuals can stay competitive in the long run at a cost of real money and the jobless can play all day every day in a still F2P game ... it's not pay2win so thats not an issue. I'm not sure I'd buy them myself, we'll have to see, but it's a solution if they're that keen on keeping the daily cap.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.08 16:12:00 - [105] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Everyone seems to agree that a daily cap without some kind of roll over for people who can't play daily isn't good. You also seem to agree, mostly, that CCP deserves to make some money off this game. You might know where this is going by now ... and the little troll in your head is starting to grow ! So what would you all think if they introduced a new AUR item, some kind of 'sp bank' that once plugged in allows your clone to begin buffering some daily caps for say 3, 7, 14 or 30 days, allowing you to come back after a weeks holiday and grind back the caps you missed out on. Casuals can stay competitive in the long run at a cost of real money and the jobless can play all day every day in a still F2P game ... it's not pay2win so thats not an issue. I'm not sure I'd buy them myself, we'll have to see, but it's a solution if they're that keen on keeping the daily cap. In paradise, maybe, but we're talking about a lot of coding for something that could just as easily be fixed by... Returning to a weekly cap..?
Zahle Undt Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2013.01.08 17:47:00 - [106] - Quote I didn't have time to read all the previous posts, but it seems like many people are saying what I think about this. CCP you are screwing over older gamers like myself who have things like jobs, kids, and responsibilities and giving an advantage to kids and teens who are more likely to be able to play an hour or so everyday. If you want to give people a reason to play more everyday than as someone else suggested allow unnaccumulated SP to roll over to the next day or something. If Dust is going to become yet another game you have to have no other life to have a chance to be competative in it, than I am really glad I only bought the one Merc pack as I won't be bothering with it that long.
DeeJay One BetaMax. 9	Posted - 2013.01.08 18:11:00 - [107] - Quote I'm not all against the daily cap, but I'd really like to see some modifications: time based SP should be less, say for every 5 seconds spent. Also the points should be awarded only if the player moved a certain distance in the match and is/was outside the red zone for a certain fraction (although the distance part can be arguable) also time based SP should be awarded only after completing a match (to mitigate KDR folks leaving matches just because they start getting killed) the WP/SP ratio should be higher 1 SP for every 10 WP All in all I hope that the incoming changes are just a test of the framework for awarding skill points and the numbers will be tweaked depending on the results. If I'm right about that this should have been stated in the announcement and would spare us so much grief here...
Citpaan Hacos BetaMax. 23	Posted - 2013.01.08 18:31:00 - [108] - Quote I'm not for or against any of this yet, but one thing does concern me. With the announcement of the merge on Thursday, and the wipe then being the FINAL wipe, from a SP standpoint then begin real and permanent skill gains. Which means you devs have only have TWO days to get the SP system and caps locked to what you're happy with, because then we're past the point of turning back. Personally, I don't think it's fair to other players to let us get permanent skill gains before the beta goes open and free, bad enough with the pay-booster/free-plain divide [especially before boosters can be bought player to player with ISK], but compounded with pay-mercpack/free-open, it's kind of twisting the knife. I would really advise you retract that this will be the last wipe, until you take MORE than two days to get feedback from the community over at least the daily/weekly issue. I know, i know, doing a DUST reset when were on TQ is probably a nightmare, but starting the game with an SP system that isn't absolutely hashed out is probably worse.
Ulysses Knapse Nuevo Atlas Corporation 73	Posted - 2013.01.08 18:48:00 - [109] - Quote The ironic part is that CCP introduced the cap to reduce grinding, but the current system actually benefits those that grind daily.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 126	Posted - 2013.01.08 18:53:00 - [110] - Quote +1 to the roll over idea i think the "pool" should be a world wide pool rather than personal to make it fair-ish for people who join late giving them a chance to catch up, This is especially important when you concider this is apparently the LAST reset we as a beta tester group will be miles ahead of people who joined at launch effectivly noob stomping the new guys, the majority of the potential player base will arive at launch due to it being advertised by magazines, internet sites, hell even word of mouth if its good if people get on and get killed in a fight that is from start against them they wont last long on dust. Ive been around for quite a while on these forms from the swarm shotgun, to the unneeded tank and heavy nerf, then to the strafing nerf, but this could be more of a game breaker to any previous issues in game as it will turn people off more if they dont have any prospect of ever having a chance to catch up I understand that CCP needs to make money out of Dust for it to live but SP is a bad way to go about it, id recomend looking at Planetside 2 the way it does visual items paint scheems so on so forth people will actually get these thing and there is no way to be considered OP

2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.01.08 19:30:00 - [111] - Quote From my other post.... So right now under the current system if you use all boosters and get all SP 40,800 x 30 = 1,224,000 mil 36,000 x 30 = 1,080,000 mil Maximum SP for 30 days is= 2,304,000 mil Over 3 months = 6,912,000 about 3 merc packs? so $60? ------Ref from CCP FRAME ``Further clarification to the Skill Points gain system changes: If you get the active booster the cap is raised to 40.800 SP per day. The numbers are only for the active skill gains. Passive gain will still be at 24.000 SP per day, or 36.000 SP per day if you're running a booster.`` Under the current system if someone joins a year after release you are behind 28,032,000 million SP. How do you kill that which has no life?You dont, you just don't play. oh? what is that over there? far cry 4 with mmo multiplayer? huh guess I would rather play that then be 28 mil behind and NEVER ABLE TO CATCH UP! yeah I will play this at launch but a year from now I bet the games gonna be hurting for new players and starving for cash. A bunch of quick fixes will follow to bring in new players that will certainly **** off old players but the damage will be done and CCP will have to play catchup while chasing its own tail. Seen it a bunch of times. I would not play this game under current sp system if i started playing a year after launch and if i was a current player I would not recommend people start playing. Just my 2 AUR
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.01.08 19:37:00 - [112] - Quote Arramakaian Eka wrote: CCP Frame wrote: Hi guys, Here is further clarification to the Skill Points gain system changes: If you get the active booster the cap is raised to 40.800 SP per day. The numbers are only for the active skill gains. Passive gain will still be at 24.000 SP per day, or 36.000 SP per day if you're running a booster. Thank you for your feedback. So that's a double-incentive for booster use: not only do you get a boost in XP, but you also get a boost in overall XP you can gain. I'm sure it sounds great to someone with an MBA in marketing but poor understanding of FPS gamers. +1 To this! We are trying to attract a short attention span skill based FPS crowd, This is the kind of calculating I expect from a eve player not a FPSer CCP STOP THINKING LIKE A EVE DEVELOPER START THINKING LIKE A FPS DEVELOPER!
Amorale Lyadstafer Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.01.08 20:22:00 - [113] - Quote 22 pounds monthly for boosters only, f2p at its finest.
DeeJay One BetaMax. 9	Posted - 2013.01.08 20:30:00 - [114] - Quote Amorale Lyadstafer wrote: 22 pounds monthly for boosters only, f2p at its finest. So? Slightly more skill points give you absolutely nothing if you can't apply them. If you get a bunch of new players properly coordinated they can nuke you out into space ;) Just like in EVE where you can train into a faction battleship and fit it out it with some real money PLEX transactions, but still a bunch of newbs barely flying the frigates they just got can pod you...
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.01.08 20:50:00 - [115] - Quote I'm already feeling the grind, and I haven't even logged in to experience it.
Amorale Lyadstafer Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.01.08 21:02:00 - [116] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Amorale Lyadstafer wrote: 22 pounds monthly for boosters only, f2p at its finest. So? Slightly more skill points give you absolutely nothing if you can't apply them. If you get a bunch of new players properly coordinated they can nuke you out into space ;) I just knew that someone will reply with such a comment. 50% boost is way beyond "Slightly". And what about the people who actually can apply them ?. What makes you believe that a bunch of newbs will become coordinated , and a boost user will not ? It was always beyond my understanding why in every f2p game people who pay money are considered as dumbasses. Amorale Lyadstafer wrote: Just like in EVE where you can train into a faction battleship and fit it out it with some real money PLEX transactions, but still a bunch of newbs barely flying the frigates they just got can pod you... This argument is invalid, since in EVE the number of participants is almost unlimted, and DUST has like what ? 12 vs 12 ?. And the biggest problem is, that boosters increase your cap. P.S. 22 pound for BOOSTERS ONLY. Add a consumables price then aswell.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 970	Posted - 2013.01.08 21:08:00 - [117] - Quote You really have to watch the law of unintended consequenses. Active SP gain for passively existing in the match is going to invite AFK abuse that will require more coding to thwart which will result in an arms race of the least possible interaction to gain the passive points. I can just see some guys training their kids to "make the little man run back and forth" in the spawn or building a modded controler to do the same automaticlly. You just don't want to go down that road. You really don't. We were complaining about all the WP farmers sitting in the back washing jeeps a couple builds ago, and this will generate more of the same. Teams with half the players AFK will generate a great deal of rage and creative TKing. Bump up the multiplier for WP and double it for the winning team. That will encourage match participation. Make the active SP gain actually require meaningful activity.
Zahle Undt Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2013.01.08 21:22:00 - [118] - Quote Skihids wrote: You really have to watch the law of unintended consequenses. Active SP gain for passively existing in the match is going to invite AFK abuse that will require more coding to thwart which will result in an arms race of the least possible interaction to gain the passive points. I can just see some guys training their kids to "make the little man run back and forth" in the spawn or building a modded controler to do the same automaticlly. You just don't want to go down that road. You really don't. We were complaining about all the WP farmers sitting in the back washing jeeps a couple builds ago, and this will generate more of the same. Teams with half the players AFK will generate a great deal of rage and creative TKing. Bump up the multiplier for WP and double it for the winning team. That will encourage match participation. Make the active SP gain actually require meaningful activity. Skihids, you mad genius, I have a 7 year old I can train to do that ! All kidding aside, yeah this whole SP thing is just a terrible idea period.
DeeJay One BetaMax. 9	Posted - 2013.01.08 21:25:00 - [119] - Quote Amorale Lyadstafer wrote: DeeJay One wrote: So? Slightly more skill points give you absolutely nothing if you can't apply them. If you get a bunch of new players properly coordinated they can nuke you out into space ;) I just knew that someone will reply with such a comment. 50% boost is way beyond "Slightly". And what about the people who actually can apply them ?. What makes you believe that a bunch of newbs will become coordinated , and a boost user will not ? It was always beyond my understanding why in every f2p game people who pay money are considered as dumbasses. I don't consider them kitten, I'm using those boosters ;) You assume that you will be always fighting corps/matches where every single player is using boosters, that's a lot of money especially since there's nothing like a PLEX in here for wich you could buy AUR. If there's a corp with boosters for all it's players and they can apply those additional 130K+ skill points (let me check what skill I can upgrade for that in my current open tree, hmm none) then no noob corp will accept FW matches against them and there won't be so many incentives for them to play pub matches (low ISK payout in high sec, just look at the number of QQ posts about proto gear being so expensive now without real benefit, SP are mostly there to give you proto/advanced stuff) Also organizing new players in a corp with some leadership isn't all that hard! Amorale Lyadstafer wrote: DeeJay One wrote: Just like in EVE where you can train into a faction battleship and fit it out it with some real money PLEX transactions, but still a bunch of newbs barely flying the frigates they just got can pod you... This argument is invalid, since in EVE the number of participants is almost unlimted, and DUST has like what ? 12 vs 12 ?. See above, full 12 enemy team on boosters? Not likely, people are cheap and they won't pay 22 pounds every month if they can get another FPS for the same amount of money. Amorale Lyadstafer wrote: And the biggest problem is, that boosters increase your cap. P.S. 22 pound for BOOSTERS ONLY. Add a consumables price then aswell. OK, how many AUR assets don't have any equivalents in ISK or rather how many of these will CCP allow to exist past beta? Increasing the cap is a valid issue I admit, but still - people are cheap, I'd rather spend the 22 pounds on two new CD's or a game instead...
Cyn Bruin Imperfects Negative-Feedback 655	Posted - 2013.01.08 21:49:00 - [120] - Quote Howdy CCP, I am trying to follow your reasoning. You made an SP cap so the hardcore players wouldnt leave the casual players behind, this was semi-accomplished with a weekly cap. Then when we asked for a better system, you instituted a daily SP cap. This system totally reverses your prior strategy. By making a daily cap, you will put a huge barrier of SP in between the hardcore player that plays everyday and the casual gamer that doesnt. If I miss a day of playing thats 40k with a booster. So over the course of a month, me the casual, will miss 10 or so days. This comes in at 400k SP a month. Do you see the problem with this system if you want both types of player bases to compete? I understand you all are working on a tweak/or new system to put in place. But is this really the system you want to go "live" on January 10th? Because if there is to be no further SP wipes from the 10th on and this system is still in place, it will basically be affecting the "live" game. This type of system as it stands now will drive away and alienate any new players that come into the game. They will not be able to compete with people that have been in from Day 1. Unless like EVE, this is what you are going for? The SP system is THE CORE SYSTEM, it controls every skill your character can learn, it needs to be done correctly.



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