DUST Search - [Suggestion]A Injector and Repper solution for LogiBros

Free Healing wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

A couple of questions for my fellow Logi's

Has anyone gotten both awards from the new system from repairing vehicles? I have only gotten the Guardian (i.e. points from a kill made while being repaired) award.
In your assessment does the new awards system resolve or maintain the "cycle" issues with War Point awards from previous builds?

Cheers,
Cross

Cross i have not recieved any "Triage" bonus for repairing a Tank or LAV but i have also gotten the Guardian.

In an unrealted note.

I have a theory about the Cycles about the repairing of Dropsuits and Repair tools. I don't actually think it's based on how many cycles at all.

I think it might be based on how much % of a Dropsuits Armor HP you repair. I could be wrong but i'll share my experience.

I had been playing an Ambush match on Ashland mostly using my completely free fitting that included a Militia Repair Tool and had been getting a stable amount of WP off of the blueberries around me. After a while i noticed that the battle was leaning heavily in our favor but a Militia HAV had come in and was trying to move on us.

Since the Supply Depot was nearby i decided to switch to my expensive fit that had Packed AV grenades and my Triage Repair Tool. As i was waiting for the Tank to get close enough for me to use my Grenades, i noticed a friendly scout was nearby with next to no armor and proceeded to repair them, upon which i noticed +25 appearing rapidly on my screen. I managed to count how many i had gotten and it totaled 4 Counts for a total of 100 WP.

A little later i stumbled upon a friendly heavy who was being assaulted and managed to get my Repair Tool on him just before he was about to die and got 25 Points for Triage and 35 points for Guardian. Once the enemy was dead the Heavy was at about 1/4 of his health (This heavy was a Type 1 since he had a lot of armor.) and by the time he was fully repaired i had gotten a total of 5 Triage and 1 Guardian off of him for the whole time.

Since the Heavy was being assaulted before it could be said that i repaired him for 5/4 of his health which is why i got a 5th Triage Award. It's my believe that since i got 4 Counts and a Scout and again about 4 Counts on a Heavy (only the heavies counts appeared much slower) That the amount of Triage Awarded is based on a percentage of Armor HP restored to the target rather than how long you are actually repping the target.

I need more data for it to be conclusive though.

Keep the faith.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Kaymas Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.12.04 17:25:00 - [91] - Quote +1
VADOL II Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 49	Posted - 2012.12.10 18:38:00 - [92] - Quote People (CCP) Needs to continue to see this.
RedBleach LeSanglant Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 136	Posted - 2012.12.10 23:26:00 - [93] - Quote I'm sure CCP has seen it. I've enjoyed all 5 pages of input and explanations. Here's to hoping it all gets in with the next update - and the super repping to counter DPS is a grand idea. That would be fun tactic to employ while some Codewish is ripping up a party member, then to see the player still alive -stronger than before - and already reloaded to kill the Codewish wielder... good times.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.11 20:54:00 - [94] - Quote VADOL, I think the "active" Repair Tool idea deserves it's own thread (linked here as well of course =) ). I was planning to start one up but it's your idea so I want to give you first crack at it if you'd like. Just let me know if you'd rather post the thread yourself or if I should go ahead. Cheers, Cross
VADOL II Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 49	Posted - 2012.12.12 20:50:00 - [95] - Quote Go ahead Cross. I somehow think that you would be better with the wording. Thanks for asking. :-) :Looking back at my posts I am not sure if I explained my thought very well here. I think I did a better job in corp chat/forums. Giving a Rep tool that you can 'Overheat' to bring forward vast healing numbers. Make it in tune with the Lasr Rifle, ie: Heat up, Cool down, Overheat shuts it down for a time. Would need it to be a lvl V Reap tool, with some skill (possibly already in play) that reduces the heat up or speeds cool down. I just want to be able to keep a single heavy from going down in a fight, let me at least match the DPS of an AR
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.14 17:55:00 - [96] - Quote VADOL II wrote: Go ahead Cross. I somehow think that you would be better with the wording. Thanks for asking. :-) :Looking back at my posts I am not sure if I explained my thought very well here. I think I did a better job in corp chat/forums. Giving a Rep tool that you can 'Overheat' to bring forward vast healing numbers. Make it in tune with the Lasr Rifle, ie: Heat up, Cool down, Overheat shuts it down for a time. Would need it to be a lvl V Reap tool, with some skill (possibly already in play) that reduces the heat up or speeds cool down. I just want to be able to keep a single heavy from going down in a fight, let me at least match the DPS of an AR Excellent, will do, and once again great idea
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2012.12.14 22:14:00 - [97] - Quote VADOL II wrote: Go ahead Cross. I somehow think that you would be better with the wording. Thanks for asking. :-) :Looking back at my posts I am not sure if I explained my thought very well here. I think I did a better job in corp chat/forums. Giving a Rep tool that you can 'Overheat' to bring forward vast healing numbers. Make it in tune with the Lasr Rifle, ie: Heat up, Cool down, Overheat shuts it down for a time. Would need it to be a lvl V Reap tool, with some skill (possibly already in play) that reduces the heat up or speeds cool down. I just want to be able to keep a single heavy from going down in a fight, let me at least match the DPS of an AR I drive a Logi LAV, so this is what I do. As for out repping AR, don't hold your breath. A proto AR with it's base dammage and ROF puts out upwards of 500 to 750+ DPS challenging the best heavy reppers that only tanks and high end Drop ships can wield. That said, 2 militia AR are > one proto so help shoot'em down and keep your buddies reped and armed afterward.
ugg reset ZionTCD Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2012.12.17 18:28:00 - [98] - Quote NEW Chromosome patch notes. here is what they had on RR's -Updated the repair tool rewards to encourage players to act as 'Combat medics' and prevent them from being exploited * Added Triage reward - an assist if you are repairing a friendly and that friendly gets a kill * Added Guardian reward - you receive rewards when repairing a friendly who has damaged an enemy within x seconds * Added a WP cap window - if a player scores more than X amount of WP within Y amount of time then there is a cool-down timer until they can score again
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.18 09:24:00 - [99] - Quote Thanks to ugg reset for posting the relevant section of the Chromosome patch notes. Alright folks we have two things cooking with the arrival of Chromosome. 1st is to test the new Repair Tool, both to see how the current WPs are working (and check for buts) but also to see how the Repair Tool cycles effect awards within the new system. (Note: We need to focus heavily on the UI aspect of the cap window, such limitations need to be clearly communicated in real time to the players they are effecting) 2nd is to keep this thread generally active and reiterate the needed changes as the exist within the context of the new build. Cheers all, I'll see you on the battlefield Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.19 21:00:00 - [100] - Quote Chromosome -Updated the repair tool rewards to encourage players to act as 'Combat medics' and prevent them from being exploited * Added Triage reward - an assist if you are repairing a friendly and that friendly gets a kill +25 War Points per 'tick' * Added Guardian reward - you receive rewards when repairing a friendly who has damaged an enemy within x seconds +35 War Points per 'tick' * Added a WP cap window - if a player scores more than X amount of WP within Y amount of time then there is a cool-down timer until they can score again WP cap window approximate amount is 150 War Points. Time window still undermined. Also of note the in game mechanics seem to award for actions with the names swapped from those listed in the patch notes above. (i.e. Guardian for repping a unit that gets a kill, Triage for repping a friendly who has damaged an enemy with x seconds. Number of seconds still undermined). Still looking for additional data points on the new Repair Tool system, please contribute your findings. Initial impressions; current iteration of the Repair Tool WP award system within Chromosome improves is a step forward, possibly even resolving the prior issues with the Repair Tool awards system. It's changes do not however alter the Repair Tool - Nano Injector dynamic, and as such the Nano Injector still requires a fix to provide proper awards scaling. Cheers, Cross

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.22 08:36:00 - [101] - Quote Please stop by this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=48258&find=unread it's worth commenting on. I've quoted the OP below as it provides additional info relevant to considerations of Logi/Equipment balance and function. Cheers, Cross Aeon Amadi wrote: Repair Tools a. Stable variants do not have reduced CPU/PG needs, as par their description. b. Same stats as normal repair tool, no benefit to using them. c. Higher price than normal repair tool. d. Has no advanced or prototype models. a. Inert variants have no visible information on it's effect on Installations. b. Has no prototype model. a. 'Fractal' Performs better than -ALL- other variants. b. Lower skill requirement than 'Schizm'. c. Lower aurum cost than 'Schizm'. d. No ISK equivalent. Axis variants do not have a standard or prototype model. Flux variants do not have an advanced model. Triage variants do not have an advanced model. Drop Uplinks a. Stable variants do not reduce CPU/PG needs, as par their description. b. Same stats as normal uplink, no benefit to using them. c. Higher price than normal uplinks. d. Does not have an advanced model. 'Dawnpyre' should require advanced level skills, not standard. a. Imperial uplink has no obvious benefit over Ishukone Gauged. b. Costs twice as much as Ishukone Gauged. a. 'Abyss' Carthum uplink performs better (at spawn time) than -ALL- other variants. b. Performs worse (at spawns) than -ALL- other variants c. No ISK equivalent. Flux variants do not have a prototype model. Gauged variants do not have an advanced model. Quantum variants do not have a prototype model. Nanohives a. Compact variant claims that it repairs armor. b. Does, in fact, repair armor. c. Does NOT indicate such with the (R) symbol on it's name. d. No advanced or prototype models. Normal variants do not have a prototype model. a. Stable variants do not reduce CPU/PG needs, as par their description. b. Same stats as normal nanohive, no benefit to using them. c. Higher price than normal nanohive. d. No advanced or prototype models. a. Flux variants should have a larger field than Triage variants. b. No standard or advanced models. Gauged variants do not have an advanced model. Quantum variants do not have a prototype model. a. Triage variants do not have a standard model. b. Have no visible information on it's affect on armor repair rate(s). c. Prototype model does not have higher CPU/PG needs like the advanced model. a. (R) Variants have no standard or prototype models. b. Have no visible information on it's affect on armor repair rate(s).
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.26 19:31:00 - [102] - Quote A couple of questions for my fellow Logi's Has anyone gotten both awards from the new system from repairing vehicles? I have only gotten the Guardian (i.e. points from a kill made while being repaired) award. In your assessment does the new awards system resolve or maintain the "cycle" issues with War Point awards from previous builds? Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.27 19:25:00 - [103] - Quote bump, please check out the above post, still waiting for additional feedback from other Logi's
Wei Ghjuvan BetaMax. 6	Posted - 2012.12.27 20:35:00 - [104] - Quote +1
Free Healing L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 234	Posted - 2012.12.30 20:11:00 - [105] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: A couple of questions for my fellow Logi's Has anyone gotten both awards from the new system from repairing vehicles? I have only gotten the Guardian (i.e. points from a kill made while being repaired) award. In your assessment does the new awards system resolve or maintain the "cycle" issues with War Point awards from previous builds? Cheers, Cross Cross i have not recieved any "Triage" bonus for repairing a Tank or LAV but i have also gotten the Guardian. In an unrealted note. I have a theory about the Cycles about the repairing of Dropsuits and Repair tools. I don't actually think it's based on how many cycles at all. I think it might be based on how much % of a Dropsuits Armor HP you repair. I could be wrong but i'll share my experience. I had been playing an Ambush match on Ashland mostly using my completely free fitting that included a Militia Repair Tool and had been getting a stable amount of WP off of the blueberries around me. After a while i noticed that the battle was leaning heavily in our favor but a Militia HAV had come in and was trying to move on us. Since the Supply Depot was nearby i decided to switch to my expensive fit that had Packed AV grenades and my Triage Repair Tool. As i was waiting for the Tank to get close enough for me to use my Grenades, i noticed a friendly scout was nearby with next to no armor and proceeded to repair them, upon which i noticed +25 appearing rapidly on my screen. I managed to count how many i had gotten and it totaled 4 Counts for a total of 100 WP. A little later i stumbled upon a friendly heavy who was being assaulted and managed to get my Repair Tool on him just before he was about to die and got 25 Points for Triage and 35 points for Guardian. Once the enemy was dead the Heavy was at about 1/4 of his health (This heavy was a Type 1 since he had a lot of armor.) and by the time he was fully repaired i had gotten a total of 5 Triage and 1 Guardian off of him for the whole time. Since the Heavy was being assaulted before it could be said that i repaired him for 5/4 of his health which is why i got a 5th Triage Award. It's my believe that since i got 4 Counts and a Scout and again about 4 Counts on a Heavy (only the heavies counts appeared much slower) That the amount of Triage Awarded is based on a percentage of Armor HP restored to the target rather than how long you are actually repping the target. I need more data for it to be conclusive though. Keep the faith.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.30 21:43:00 - [106] - Quote Free Healing wrote: Cross Atu wrote: A couple of questions for my fellow Logi's Has anyone gotten both awards from the new system from repairing vehicles? I have only gotten the Guardian (i.e. points from a kill made while being repaired) award. In your assessment does the new awards system resolve or maintain the "cycle" issues with War Point awards from previous builds? Cheers, Cross Cross i have not recieved any "Triage" bonus for repairing a Tank or LAV but i have also gotten the Guardian. In an unrealted note. I have a theory about the Cycles about the repairing of Dropsuits and Repair tools. I don't actually think it's based on how many cycles at all. I think it might be based on how much % of a Dropsuits Armor HP you repair. I could be wrong but i'll share my experience. I had been playing an Ambush match on Ashland mostly using my completely free fitting that included a Militia Repair Tool and had been getting a stable amount of WP off of the blueberries around me. After a while i noticed that the battle was leaning heavily in our favor but a Militia HAV had come in and was trying to move on us. Since the Supply Depot was nearby i decided to switch to my expensive fit that had Packed AV grenades and my Triage Repair Tool. As i was waiting for the Tank to get close enough for me to use my Grenades, i noticed a friendly scout was nearby with next to no armor and proceeded to repair them, upon which i noticed +25 appearing rapidly on my screen. I managed to count how many i had gotten and it totaled 4 Counts for a total of 100 WP. A little later i stumbled upon a friendly heavy who was being assaulted and managed to get my Repair Tool on him just before he was about to die and got 25 Points for Triage and 35 points for Guardian. Once the enemy was dead the Heavy was at about 1/4 of his health (This heavy was a Type 1 since he had a lot of armor.) and by the time he was fully repaired i had gotten a total of 5 Triage and 1 Guardian off of him for the whole time. Since the Heavy was being assaulted before it could be said that i repaired him for 5/4 of his health which is why i got a 5th Triage Award. It's my believe that since i got 4 Counts and a Scout and again about 4 Counts on a Heavy (only the heavies counts appeared much slower) That the amount of Triage Awarded is based on a percentage of Armor HP restored to the target rather than how long you are actually repping the target. I need more data for it to be conclusive though. Keep the faith. Very interesting. I too have gotten only Guardian awards from HAVs so it's sounding like an undocumented feature. Regarding repair cycles, Your data does seem to indicate the conclusions you've outlined, and I'll need to do more testing/pay more attention because the awards ratio you've described isn't in line with what I've been observing in my own matches. Most recently I played several Ambush matches today on the "new Manus Peak", the small version. I was in "the bowl" and thus mercs in need of repairs were plentiful, I repaired a Type-A Scout suit from 70% (30% armor remaining) and gained only a single Triage award. In the same fight I repaired a Heavy (I'm unsure of type) and picked up ~5-6 Triage awards. On earlier maps I've also gotten 6 awards from repairing a single Heavy, which is in fact how I assessed the numeric value of the cap because that's when I stopped gaining points. I'll do another round of testing and post back with further data, it seems as if perhaps there's a factor somewhere that we're missing. Cheers, Cross
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2012.12.31 08:06:00 - [107] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: Yes please, more WP for reviving with better nanite injiectors. Maybe 60 standard, 80 advanced and 100 for the proto? Even 60-70-80 would be good. Also agree on the repair tool and the selection Wheel. Nope. Too high. Try 40-50-60 or 40-55-65. Currently a good Logi can out WP over half of the squad using the current WP system. All while dying and not getting kills. And in a public match with a batch of Noobs, piece of cake. I think by lowering the basic mod it would make it obvious that improving would be a Good Thing (tm). Having said that I seriously doubt this has any chance of it happening. From a programming standpoint you have just increased the complexity of a seriously stressed piece of code. A action of type X produces N WP. Simple table look up and your out. Adjusting for repping someone too often/quickly isn't that simple. Now one would have to not only do the table look up anyway but access the Merc's (I rep from other builds) setup as well. Then adjust the WP based on exactly what equipment is being used. That means at least another table look up but considering they are Ruby based it may even mean several DB look ups, one for the Merc, one for the tool, one on the action and then the adjustments based on time and repeats. This is me not holding my breath.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.05 23:42:00 - [108] - Quote We are now in Chromosome and both Repair Tools and Nano Injectors still reward a player more for running pure militia equipment than for running anything better. In point of fact the effective potential rewards of actions are lowered with each step up in Meta level. The present iteration is a converse to the balance of other classes/fits of gear in which higher Meta leads to higher potential/effective earnings. The net effect of this double standard is to at best encourage an entire play type to not bother with investing in many related Skill and Gear aspects of the game, and at worst to possibly create a disparity in overall progression. CCP, this disparity in balance needs redress. Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.09 21:44:00 - [109] - Quote Considering the impending move (and final wipe) a fix for the problems highlighted in this thread becomes all the more pressing. CCP, please consider/confirm a rework of the Revival/Repair awards mechanics to help them normalize with the Meta progression present in other aspects of the game. Cheers, Cross
Hunter Junko WARRIORS 1NC 45	Posted - 2013.01.09 22:37:00 - [110] - Quote +1

Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.09 22:49:00 - [111] - Quote +2. Cool thing is to rep someone while they call an OB for lots of Guardian bonuses.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.12 17:18:00 - [112] - Quote bump
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.15 00:59:00 - [113] - Quote Anyone else have additional changes/information to report since the wipe?
Green Living Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 53	Posted - 2013.01.15 01:11:00 - [114] - Quote +1
Wei Ghjuvan BetaMax. 6	Posted - 2013.01.15 01:28:00 - [115] - Quote +1
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.16 18:27:00 - [116] - Quote Important changes are important. Still waiting on a "our team is looking into this" or "SOONtm". I'm perfectly content to be patient about these improvements but the issues they address are too important to leave in obscurity.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.19 20:49:00 - [117] - Quote bump
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.21 19:50:00 - [118] - Quote Still looking for a Dev statement regarding the inverse rewards potential of the Equipment line.
Wei Ghjuvan BetaMax. 6	Posted - 2013.01.23 05:49:00 - [119] - Quote Just necro bumping this thread as it needs to be fixed
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.23 22:35:00 - [120] - Quote Wei Ghjuvan wrote: Just necro bumping this thread as it needs to be fixed ^This



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