So you can't cite your source then? The amount of hours you play Dust is irrelevant. Until you can query the average lifetime SP of the Dust player population from a database the "100mil SP average" comment is hyperbole.

Name one veteran who had to start while the common merc had upto 100mil SP?

Or dealing with Officer gear being as common as it is now..

The whole "back in my day, we didn't have things handed to us like these kids today" is total BS...

Crappy as it is, you cannot deny the OP makes more sense than most of the replies to his post.

Are you really arguing that newbs do not have to fight mercs with 100mil SP?? yes in fact the data would probably say the average is lower than 100m, this means sweet f all to the point I was making.

Separate issue, we need a tag for those that play the game opposed to those who play the forum.

The point I am making is that you don't know the average SP of the Dust population. You literally have no way of knowing that number. I don't give a damn how many matches you play every day.

Beyond that, yes, new players as of Warlords 1.2 have to contend with higher SP players in matches. This also works both ways though. They have teammates and redberries who are higher SP. The hives they step on now are probably more often adv and proto than launch day. I'm willing to bet they would provide suppression fire for teammates with more SP into weapons than folks had on launch day.

You and OP act like every match it's new players in starter fittings vs. 16 battle hardened 100mil lifetime SP veterans in full officer gear.

I also try to play daily, as my work schedule permits. Don't you worry.

So you can't cite your source then? The amount of hours you play Dust is irrelevant. Until you can query the average lifetime SP of the Dust player population from a database the "100mil SP average" comment is hyperbole.

I will just as soon as I earn the 21 victories for the event on my main. You should know that I did this when Warlords 1.0 dropped though. My alt's KDR wasn't great, but I also didn't lose any ISK from death since my fittings were less than a 1k ISK per. I got a metric fucktonne of kill assists and repped an HMG sentinel while he steamrolled people.

It was actually a lot of fun! And this was before the flattening of slot progression. I bet I can make some decent starter fittings now.

X players are killing the game!

Lets kill the game faster!

Race you suckers to the bottom.

You want real change? Work constructively, not destructively.

While there may be hyperbole, the point still stands.

I have rather limited playing time and still have something like 30 mil SP, which is more than enough to confer a significant advantage over new players.

You can say what you want about flat slot progression, but the facts are that vets who have maxed shields, armor, engineering, and CPU (forgot which skill), have a massive advantage even using start vs starter. What good does flat slot progression do when they don't have the cpu/pg, or even SP into useful things such as kinkcats or myos?

At this point you are saying there is only one way to skill into anything until you have enough SP to diversify. Because there is no point in trying to skill into the play style they want, because its ok that those are ineffective until you get 10mil SP or so.

Frankly, I think the notion that new players have it better now than those of us that have been here years is simply not the case, as any positive change like slot progression flatness has significantly overshadowed by the many changes to make proto much better than standard gear. For many months there were changes to weaponry and eq that took once viable standard gear and made them ineffective in the name of encouraging proto skilling. It was understandable but misguided and many people pointed out the dangers and effects on the NPE.

I know you want this game ported, but if you cannot acknowledge these problems, and find ways to address them, we will simply port the problems to a new platform, and doom a port before it has even begun.

Player behavior is a funny thing. New players are told to "git gud" and vets are called losers for using proto. Vets aren't (not all, just the tryhard corps) willing to change their playstyle despite the impact on NPE. New players cannot just "git gud" and attain proto instantly. So in answer to stubborn vets, clutching on to proto for dear life, we will not participate in games with you. We may not be able to avoid it entirely. We can however leave games that will not net us any SP or hardly any isk.

Personally with the attitude of most "vets" I will now encourage noobs in leaving games. Between insults, being told to git gud or for new players to quit if they dont like it is just unacceptable. So I realized this is probably the most effective way to fight against proto stompers when you have low SP. They refuse to use any other kit except the best, then we'll simply refuse to fight them and find a new game.

Enjoy less kills, worse games, less isk and less SP. Meanwhile I don't mind leaving 2-3 games in a row where I'd only get 2-3 kills and hardly any isk or SP. As a new player it is far more worth your time to find a good game instead of playing against proto stacked squads.

Maybe with enough lopsided boring redlines these corps will realize what's up. Or the cries for matchmaking will become so deafening that meta locks or another tiericide option will be sooner explored.

What's worse to low SP players: leaving a couple games so as to have a great game, or playing 2-3 redline games where you hardly acquire SP and isk while burning through isk getting farmed? Even using a free fit doesn't somehow make those games worth the time.

I used to think not leaving was honorable or something, but after meeting some of the characters who are always stomping, its has nothing to do with honor or good sportsmanship in those games. It's just plain stupid and at our disadvantage to let them shoot us like fish in a barrel.

I tried this a long ass time ago. The vet mentality is perfectly seen here almost 3 years ago. Zero f*ks given still to this day. Now it has come to a boiling point where people do not even stay in games anymore.
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Yes but the problem all ways will come down to matchmaking. Why are they being put against stompers???

And whys should people like me be punished for playing the game??? Why should I take the punishment for running the proto/officer gear I rightfully earned in the same spot as the new players are right now??? Part of the problem is also people just not trying.

I tried suggesting we differentiate std, adv, and proto differently than just damage, much like they just recently did with grenades, but for a greater number of weapons, but it was largely ignored.

You are certainly welcome to make your own suggestions.

Me and the OP are not far from it on that. Most battles just need 1 vet w/100mil SP and thats enough to ruin it
I got a bit ranty at your defence of the situation..
But you need to look at the reality, while all these bells have been added for NPE, the vets have gained equally. (more?)

And we never had to deal with that crap when we started, sorry for the ranting.. but despite the SP I've earned I will always be a starter fit newb at heart (and in skill level) so I tend to get defensive for my bro's.

That and the misunderstanding was simple.. I should have wrote
"The average battle has player(s) with upto 100mil SP, old vets never had to deal with that at the start"

Either way, the mistake you made was reading a D1CK post word for word.. I have a code you know

#NeverNotSh!tpost

Most vets who have made a new toon come back saying "holy **** the TTK on new players is insane and the performance disparity to proto is far too great".

New players have it far better than it used to be. The gap between standard and prototype has done nothing but closer and closer.

Low end gear has better HP and regeneration. Now the only difference between standard and prototype weapons are damage, where before you even would have more range, better falloff.

Coordination and actual skill > SP. If you don't want to play with other people and take advantage of teamwork then that's all on you. It will get you much farther than playing by yourself regardless of the amount of SP you have.

1 vet with high SP ruins it for the 16 on the other side.

Yeah, you shouldn't be playing pvp games.

Sorry.. you have another word for 1 player with a severe SP advantage battling guys that barely know how to fit a suit?
Because imo, when 1 player is dropping 30+ kills vs the enemy as they are using fits that have no place in a pub.. it is not only ruining the game for the the other side, but your own team also, as they wait about trying to pick up scraps.

Unless.. you might be one of those that think a maxed fit in pubs dropping 20/30 kills is "skill" it is in some cases, and if we actually had balanced modes in term of gear use/SP level, I would not argue it. But, we don't.

In that case, what does it matter that upto 30 people didn't enjoy a battle because someone was too l33t

Coordination and actual skill High HP & High-End Gear > SP.

The best battles are the evenly matched ones.

16 vs 16 don't mean sh!t if over half of one team is running around like headless chickens or off in the far corners of the map jacking off.

FTFY.

Winning after getting shot in the back by a newbro who got the drop on you isn't "skill". It also isn't "teamwork" and it certainly isn't "tactical".