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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Daemonn Adima wrote:I know this isn't somehow a better solution, but if some players refuse to modify their behavior to better the experience for everyone, then why should new players force themselves to stay in stomps? For the enjoyment of the stompers? A lot of veterans went through what the new players are going through now*. We got repeatedly curb stomped in matches and eventually clawed our way to where we are today. Some veterans feel that this is almost a rite of passage at this point. Honestly, a new player can do things for their team. Usually it involves sticking close to other blueberries, providing fire support, nanohives and other useful equipment. So no, they don't get to Rambo Jihad themselves at the enemy, but saying that their ONLY option is to leave battle... that is silly talk. *: Mind you, we didn't have dropsuit slot progression flattened, a warbarge to pump out free SP/ISK every single day, and daily missions to provide free gear/ISK/SP just for playing
Name one veteran who had to start while the average opponent had upto 100mil SP?
Or dealing with Officer gear being as common as it is now..
The whole "back in my day, we didn't have things handed to us like these kids today" is total BS...
Crappy as it is, you cannot deny the OP makes more sense than most of the replies to his post.
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:TheD1CK wrote:average opponent had uto 100mil SP? Citation needed. What data has Rattati shared with us that says the average active player of Dust 514 has 100,000,000 lifetime SP? Please link it, I'd like to take a look. TheD1CK wrote:Or dealing with Officer gear being as common as it is now. Officer spam is a problem. I will agree with you on that. Hopefully the recent change to the experimental lab will help curtail the officer stomping a bit. TheD1CK wrote:Crappy as it is, you cannot deny the OP makes more sense than most of the replies to his post. No, I can deny it actually. A new player is capable of insta-gibbing people with a PLC or SG. They can provide suppression fire with MDs and LRs. They can chuck grenades that now do proto-tier damage at all tiers and ruin someone's day. They have tools available to them that can make a difference in a battle. If you want to help a new player then squad with them, give them advice on fittings, if you are feeling generous then give them some ISK. THAT is how you help new players. Not telling them to tuck tail and run at the first sight of a difficult battle.
I actually play the game more than Rattati, no need to thank me for sharing the info.
The damage has been done with Ofc/Exp gear, as long as you can use it (pubs) you will abuse it.
Yes, telling the new guy to play niche roles or camp with MD/LR is one option.. but the vet still has an array of counters available, higher dmg output and more base hp. For example, I have a slave alt "M-TAR" 1.6mil SP.. to come anyway near a decent EoM reward, I have to play unbelievably tryhard due to lack of hp, weapons or equipment to earn WP, along with the fact I have game experience while playing this, so I do ok. You can't ask a new player to make that commitment.
And for what? "Welcome to New Eden" we decyrpted this a while back, it's code for "go play something else"
I despise what the OP is doing, but I 100% agree it is the most effective way to counter being farmed.. and hey if it shoves a stick up CCP's ass and makes them do something about it, it's a win for all of us
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Starlight Burner wrote:I don't blame y'all for leaving battles.
This is what it comes down to. Any actual vet would agree with the newbs leaving in masses Why the hell should they deal with getting stomped over CCP's negligence to the problem ???
- I have always fought back Vs stomps, even when I was new.. it does me 0 favours and I dont advise trying it
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
To put in context for those who don't have a clue what they are talking about.
- Playing a PC v AE on my main "TheD1CK" blood, sweat and QQ galore..
is equal to
- Playing a pub v Mercs with 20-100 SP+ on my alt "M-TAR" more blood, cold sweats and a fever that may kill me
in terms of the effort I'd put into the battle, I have to try harder in a pub with minimal SP lol
Yeah, let's cheer on the newbro's and act like trying to fight back is anything other than pointless
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 19:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:I tried this a long ass time ago. The vet mentality is perfectly seen here almost 3 years ago. Zero f*ks given still to this day. Now it has come to a boiling point where people do not even stay in games anymore. -Rage quitting due to uneven matches and bugs. -Cowardliness of vets who have the isk but run away from any competition at moments notice. They see a superior team on the other side and leave instead of getting good. -cheapskate vets who do not want to spend any isk. -and most importantly the poor players who can not compete. There is no healthy competition in this game anymore and that's what happens when you limit your self's in small platform with a low player base pool and on top of all that... all the bad decisions that CCP has made with this game developmental wise. This was a really good game in chromosome minus the bugs and lag. The mechanics worked way better than today. Each role worked their purpose if done correctly. I don't know why they decided to change the entire formula with uprising. Ps3 limitations? The people who really tried and kept things interesting are all gone. Imperfects, PBFHz, Hell Storm, SyNergy Gaming. A game such as this can not live off casuals, a game's FPS succes is determined by its competitive player pool. They are the ones who keep other vets of the same skill level stay and fight meanwhile the low sp players play against other low sp players. You can not mix them together and CCP no longer has the luxury to fix the NPE because there is no such thing anymore. I suggest moving on and stop worrying about the NPE because it is fked. You cant have both vets and noobs going at each other the same time, it will destroy the game to a point where nobody is having fun anymore. This is the great depression of dust and nobody sees it. If there is no money to incentive people to fight then there is no competition. There has to be a massive change in dust regarding isk, rewards, and prices because as it is right now there is no way noobs can compete against people with billions of isk. post
Kalante - 2015 "I told you so"
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:TheD1CK wrote:I actually play the game more than Rattati, no need to thank me for sharing the info. So you can't cite your source then? The amount of hours you play Dust is irrelevant. Until you can query the average lifetime SP of the Dust player population from a database the "100mil SP average" comment is hyperbole.
I am the source. I try to get on daily for a few battles and I actually SEE it for myself.
You can read *applause* but getting the point seems beyond you...
Are you really arguing that newbs do not have to fight mercs with 100mil SP?? yes in fact the data would probably say the average is lower than 100m, this means sweet f all to the point I was making..
Back then, those that are vets now NEVER had to deal with 100mil SP +
Are you any closer to getting it? or will I get a spreadsheet ready?? or paint a picture?
- seperate issue, we need a tag for those that play the game opposed to those who play the forum. Yes, you can read quite fine and my posts rarely make sense, but c'mon.. anyone playing the game can agree with me.
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Daemonn Adima wrote:I know this isn't somehow a better solution, but if some players refuse to modify their behavior to better the experience for everyone, then why should new players force themselves to stay in stomps? For the enjoyment of the stompers? A lot of veterans went through what the new players are going through now*. We got repeatedly curb stomped in matches and eventually clawed our way to where we are today. Some veterans feel that this is almost a rite of passage at this point. Honestly, a new player can do things for their team. Usually it involves sticking close to other blueberries, providing fire support, nanohives and other useful equipment. So no, they don't get to Rambo Jihad themselves at the enemy, but saying that their ONLY option is to leave battle... that is silly talk. *: Mind you, we didn't have dropsuit slot progression flattened, a warbarge to pump out free SP/ISK every single day, and daily missions to provide free gear/ISK/SP just for playing Name one veteran who had to start while the common merc had upto 100mil SP? Or dealing with Officer gear being as common as it is now.. The whole "back in my day, we didn't have things handed to us like these kids today" is total BS... Crappy as it is, you cannot deny the OP makes more sense than most of the replies to his post.
Edited so Riley can get off TheD1CK and on to the problems facing new players.
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Are you really arguing that newbs do not have to fight mercs with 100mil SP?? yes in fact the data would probably say the average is lower than 100m, this means sweet f all to the point I was making. The point I am making is that you don't know the average SP of the Dust population. You literally have no way of knowing that number. I don't give a damn how many matches you play every day. Beyond that, yes, new players as of Warlords 1.2 have to contend with higher SP players in matches. This also works both ways though. They have teammates and redberries who are higher SP. The hives they step on now are probably more often adv and proto than launch day. I'm willing to bet they would provide suppression fire for teammates with more SP into weapons than folks had on launch day. You and OP act like every match it's new players in starter fittings vs. 16 battle hardened 100mil lifetime SP veterans in full officer gear. TheD1CK wrote:Separate issue, we need a tag for those that play the game opposed to those who play the forum. I also try to play daily, as my work schedule permits. Don't you worry.
Me and the OP are not far from it on that. Most battles just need 1 vet w/100mil SP and thats enough to ruin it I got a bit ranty at your defence of the situation.. But you need to look at the reality, while all these bells have been added for NPE, the vets have gained equally. (more?)
And we never had to deal with that crap when we started, sorry for the ranting.. but despite the SP I've earned I will always be a starter fit newb at heart (and in skill level) so I tend to get defensive for my bro's.
That and the misunderstanding was simple.. I should have wrote "The average battle has player(s) with upto 100mil SP, old vets never had to deal with that at the start"
Either way, the mistake you made was reading a D1CK post word for word.. I have a code you know
#NeverNotSh!tpost
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.26 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
DISCLAIMER:
I do not agree with the actions described in the OP
But, I do agree with forcing both the players and CCP's hand to do something about it, if this is it, fair enough.
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.27 00:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Are you really arguing that newbs do not have to fight mercs with 100mil SP?? yes in fact the data would probably say the average is lower than 100m, this means sweet f all to the point I was making. The point I am making is that you don't know the average SP of the Dust population. You literally have no way of knowing that number. I don't give a damn how many matches you play every day. Beyond that, yes, new players as of Warlords 1.2 have to contend with higher SP players in matches. This also works both ways though. They have teammates and redberries who are higher SP. The hives they step on now are probably more often adv and proto than launch day. I'm willing to bet they would provide suppression fire for teammates with more SP into weapons than folks had on launch day. You and OP act like every match it's new players in starter fittings vs. 16 battle hardened 100mil lifetime SP veterans in full officer gear. TheD1CK wrote:Separate issue, we need a tag for those that play the game opposed to those who play the forum. I also try to play daily, as my work schedule permits. Don't you worry. Me and the OP are not far from it on that. Most battles just need 1 vet w/100mil SP and thats enough to ruin it I got a bit ranty at your defence of the situation.. But you need to look at the reality, while all these bells have been added for NPE, the vets have gained equally. (more?) And we never had to deal with that crap when we started, sorry for the ranting.. but despite the SP I've earned I will always be a starter fit newb at heart (and in skill level) so I tend to get defensive for my bro's. That and the misunderstanding was simple.. I should have wrote "The average battle has player(s) with upto 100mil SP, old vets never had to deal with that at the start" Either way, the mistake you made was reading a D1CK post word for word.. I have a code you know #NeverNotSh!tpost 1 vet with high SP ruins it for the 16 on the other side. Yeah, you shouldn't be playing pvp games.
Sorry.. you have another word for 1 player with a severe SP advantage battling guys that barely know how to fit a suit? Because imo, when 1 player is dropping 30+ kills vs the enemy as they are using fits that have no place in a pub.. it is not only ruining the game for the the other side, but your own team also, as they wait about trying to pick up scraps.
Unless.. you might be one of those that think a maxed fit in pubs dropping 20/30 kills is "skill" it is in some cases, and if we actually had balanced modes in term of gear use/SP level, I would not argue it. But, we don't.
In that case, what does it matter that upto 30 people didn't enjoy a battle because someone was too l33t
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.27 11:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
So many try to defend the proto advantage...
How can you act like being in a fitting with more hp, along with a stronger weapon is not an advantage ??
As I said, skill comes into it in some cases.. even if we balanced gear usage.. some mercs will still murder anything, but that is no reason not to balance it. At this stage, the mercs derping in starter fits are more common in game than mercs with high SP.. if we want any chance of retaining these players SOMETHING needs to change..
Regardless if I am spewing hyperbole or not, I play the game and see the issue in gameplay.
I run proto a lot usually out of laziness to make more fittings, sometimes to combat a squad on the enemy team and each time a low SP toon crosses my path I earn an EZ 50WP barely even aiming as I spray him and get the kill.. it is no fun for me as I enjoy battling tougher opponents and it is certainly no fun for the new player/low SP toons.
That's the main point in this thread, there is no support for low SP mercs.. and it is getting to the point where they are better off leaving battles that are stacked with tryhards.. as staying will rarely net more than 200k and is not worth it.
So while we all have an opinion here, I think we can agree SOMETHING needs to change.
ffs Kalante warned you 2 years ago and people are still disputing whether it is an issue or not
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.27 12:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Exactly!!!
It is a terrible idea and will ruin even more battles for all players involved.. Why is this a good thing ?? Because when there is not a single battle to be found, CCP may finally do something.
This is an issue since I started playing, while there have been perks added for NPE, nothing has really made a change to what actually goes on in the battle, we have all suggested fixes, nothing has been done. So I agree with a new tactic
BURN IT DOWN!!
Vets think it's ok to stomp like crazy because "it's a game, I want fun" "git gud" "blablabla" But I cannot justify a few players having fun at the cost of everyone else in the battle, it's bad gameplay.
Next time you finish a battle, look at the top 5 on each team.. and tell me how many outside that had "fun"
SOONtm
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.10.27 17:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:I personally cannot run lower tier than proto, because all my 30 fitting slots are occupied by varieties of suit+wep combos, with emphasis on Logi equipment combos as I'm a logi oriented player. And no increase in max fittings is to be expected.
So there are other reasons as well beside pure dickery. I mean, you could run very comparable equipment/mod set ups of lower tier everything... But to say you "cannot" run anything but proto is just not true.
He's not wrong.
A major factor in why I run proto more than cheap fits is due to the fittings space, personally I avoid more than 10 fits in a attempt at reducing the amount of crap that has to load.. in hopes that it effects LAG..
And when I do make cheap fits, they are deleted anytime I do a PC.. and I am too lazy to re-make them
I have always wanted to be able to side scroll on fittings menus to Pro/Adv/Std.. but not anytime SOONtm I reckon
SOONtm
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