DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Hotfix Echo

CCP Rattati wrote:

LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

Most very good!

But few are not:

Removal of vehicles from ambush OMS:
because lessens the option and variety. There was no problem about people not playing OMSs and leaving. Now it will be possible to play dust with zero intent on skilling up AV.
I call this 'dumbening the game'.
Not that vehicular slaughter did not exist, no. But it certainly was not prevalent.

Increasing deployable equipment carried amount by THREE
Oh no. That WILL increase nade spam. I promise, I will multiply my Core nade spam amount!
That would require a nade nerf of sorts (nade resupply rate should be increased a lot)

Small turrets
I still guess the change won't be enough to make them usable. Sorry.
At least no for ADS use (5x range for ADS blasters would do that)

New vehicle modules:
Unless the fitting costs are minimal, I suspect they will remain gimmicks.
This has been true to several 'funny' Eve modules in the past, and especially true in case of Dust. It was never worth sacrificing much PG/CPU for turret rotation or cooldown bonus, let alone a module slot!

But hey, as I said, most are good or even great!
L MSL turrets really needed that nerf. Backpedaling has been also long awaited.

I am even considering a squad free ambush mode.

Grenades are not deployable equipment, this applies to nanohives, proximity explosives and drop uplinks.

On the other topics, we will see.

I believe his point is that an assault suit will be able to fill itself up on grenades over and over again.

Lets say an assault only resupplies two grenades before running off. The new increase gives 5 nanohives that can be deployed at various times. This means that with only a small pause and assault carrying a hive is now essentially carrying a total of 12 grenades. Just imagine a scout on high ground with 2 sets of nanohives. He now essentially has 22+ grenades to drop.

The same principle applies to REs.

I for one do not feel good about seeing all equipment go up by 3 because of this. I think the carried equipment count is just fine where it is.

I think it's going to be great, you will be able to reposition rapidly. Grenade spam is a not a big issue in our game right now, and nanohives were not being used much except by dedicated logis. If scouts are going to use one slot to be able to throw a few grenades, then good for him.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 32 post(s)
Cat Merc Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 15417	Posted - 2015.03.07 04:11:00 - [421] - Quote Rattati, will a double myo stim Gal Assault be able to jump on a supply depot? Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2507	Posted - 2015.03.07 04:24:00 - [422] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Rattati, will a double myo stim Gal Assault be able to jump on a supply depot? No. I doubt it. Triple Myo Minscouts will be able to just get on the shipping crates we see a lot, which is also the highest anyone will be able to jump. Home at Last <3
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 435	Posted - 2015.03.07 04:41:00 - [423] - Quote GÇªSo this if finally Hotfix ECHO, huh... I see a lot of good attempts to help some (presumed ignored) items get some interesting traction here: an HMG variant that can threaten vehicles, while the other variants are toned down a bit; small blaster turret dps being more focused to create the threat that we should expect of it; equipment being granted 'extra carry status' as the device that promotes Dust's "Win-by-Controlling-Map-Access" attitude, rather than the traditional "just try to kill everyone you see" mindset of those other fps games; the decision to make an HAV progression/variant path that almost says "you can play autonomous player if you want, but if you want to skill into the more elaborate HAVs you're going to HAVE to have room in your vehicle for teammates" (I think this is another innovative decision Dust has made in the name of true "co-op" gameplay---Kudos, CCP). If stuff like this is what CCP produces when they work with "more silence" about what they are doing,GÇª I hope they make lots more stuff using this method. "Echo" seems like an update based more on an insight into our BEHAVIOR in the matches, rather than strictly on raw numbers and player-demandsGÇª and I think it's going to be a SUPERIOR success because of it. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
DRT 99 Commando Perkone Caldari State 200	Posted - 2015.03.07 05:10:00 - [424] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Very similar dps, a little lower than normal because it can harm vehicles whereas the other one can not. The clip is reduced to have similar damage per clip and ammo reserves. Theres no information on the spreadsheet regarding heat buildup as of the last time i checked. Not sure if this is an oversight or if the stats arent ready yet. If they arent ready yet - please consider the fact that these will have to do ALOT of damage before overheat in order to do anything meaningful to vehicles. EDIT: Also, i believe the PG and CPU columns on the basic medium frames is mixed up, unless there are suits intended to have ~350 PG and ~60 CPU.
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4671	Posted - 2015.03.07 05:33:00 - [425] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think it's going to be great, you will be able to reposition rapidly. Grenade spam is a not a big issue in our game right now, and nanohives were not being used much except by dedicated logis. If scouts are going to use one slot to be able to throw a few grenades, then good for him. With the issue pointed out about RE and Grendade resupply I'm somewhat concerned as well. I think it'll be something to closely monitor, but I really think that the game would be better of if grenades and REs only resupplied at a depot . Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2336	Posted - 2015.03.07 05:56:00 - [426] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think it's going to be great, you will be able to reposition rapidly. Grenade spam is a not a big issue in our game right now, and nanohives were not being used much except by dedicated logis. If scouts are going to use one slot to be able to throw a few grenades, then good for him. With the issue pointed out about RE and Grendade resupply I'm somewhat concerned as well. I think it'll be something to closely monitor, but I really think that the game would be better of if grenades and REs only resupplied at a depot . On a side note, a positive side effect of making grenades and REs only resuppliable at supply depots is that blue dots will no longer deplete my nanohives within seconds of deploying them "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 243	Posted - 2015.03.07 06:14:00 - [427] - Quote CCP Rattati Please make sure that the Burst HMG and regular HMG do more total damage per overheat compared to the rifles, otherwise the HMGs would be seen as obsolete again. Im not sure if you decreased the heat cost on HMGs, but please do so, I did hear that you are reducing the DPS though. Also I hope you reduced the heat cost on the assault HMG to make it more viable against heavy suits (higher damage per overheat so that a rifles damage per clip does not overshadow it). As a small suggestion, I would suggest giving the assault HMG a spool up time of roughly 4-5 seconds so that it can have more advantages in other areas such as higher range and accuracy and roughly the same amount of infantry DPS and damage per overheat as other HMGs but be crap in extreme CQC (5-15m ranges ). This would also allow it to have good mid range area denial if sentinels ambush players at mid range with the assault HMG (roughly 25m - 40m).
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 355	Posted - 2015.03.07 06:46:00 - [428] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: CCP Rattati Please make sure that the Burst HMG and regular HMG do more total damage per overheat compared to the rifles, otherwise the HMGs would be seen as obsolete again. Im not sure if you decreased the heat cost on HMGs, but please do so, I did hear that you are reducing the DPS though. Also I hope you reduced the heat cost on the assault HMG to make it more viable against heavy suits (higher damage per overheat so that a rifles damage per clip does not overshadow it). As a small suggestion, I would suggest giving the assault HMG a spool up time of roughly 4-5 seconds so that it can have more advantages in other areas such as higher range and accuracy and roughly the same amount of infantry DPS and damage per overheat as other HMGs but be crap in extreme CQC (5-15m ranges ). This would also allow it to have good mid range area denial if sentinels ambush players at mid range with the assault HMG (roughly 25m - 40m). If it had spool up, max would be 2 seconds, otherwise you'd always lose cqc, which would be ridiculous. Molestia approved
Kain Spero Negative-Feedback. 4672	Posted - 2015.03.07 07:19:00 - [429] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think it's going to be great, you will be able to reposition rapidly. Grenade spam is a not a big issue in our game right now, and nanohives were not being used much except by dedicated logis. If scouts are going to use one slot to be able to throw a few grenades, then good for him. With the issue pointed out about RE and Grendade resupply I'm somewhat concerned as well. I think it'll be something to closely monitor, but I really think that the game would be better of if grenades and REs only resupplied at a depot . On a side note, a positive side effect of making grenades and REs only resuppliable at supply depots is that blue dots will no longer deplete my nanohives within seconds of deploying them Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Kuruld Sengar Demonite's Legion 245	Posted - 2015.03.07 08:12:00 - [430] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Rattati, will a double myo stim Gal Assault be able to jump on a supply depot? No. I doubt it. Triple Myo Minscouts will be able to just get on the shipping crates we see a lot, which is also the highest anyone will be able to jump. Myo has no stacking penalty, so min assault and cal assault should jump higher because of the extra high slots?

Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 168	Posted - 2015.03.07 08:23:00 - [431] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Most very good! But few are not: Removal of vehicles from ambush OMS: because lessens the option and variety. There was no problem about people not playing OMSs and leaving. Now it will be possible to play dust with zero intent on skilling up AV. I call this 'dumbening the game'. Not that vehicular slaughter did not exist, no. But it certainly was not prevalent. Increasing deployable equipment carried amount by THREE Oh no. That WILL increase nade spam. I promise, I will multiply my Core nade spam amount! That would require a nade nerf of sorts (nade resupply rate should be increased a lot) Small turrets I still guess the change won't be enough to make them usable. Sorry. At least no for ADS use (5x range for ADS blasters would do that) New vehicle modules: Unless the fitting costs are minimal, I suspect they will remain gimmicks. This has been true to several 'funny' Eve modules in the past, and especially true in case of Dust. It was never worth sacrificing much PG/CPU for turret rotation or cooldown bonus, let alone a module slot! But hey, as I said, most are good or even great! L MSL turrets really needed that nerf. Backpedaling has been also long awaited. I am even considering a squad free ambush mode. Grenades are not deployable equipment, this applies to nanohives, proximity explosives and drop uplinks. On the other topics, we will see. I believe his point is that an assault suit will be able to fill itself up on grenades over and over again. Lets say an assault only resupplies two grenades before running off. The new increase gives 5 nanohives that can be deployed at various times. This means that with only a small pause and assault carrying a hive is now essentially carrying a total of 12 grenades. Just imagine a scout on high ground with 2 sets of nanohives. He now essentially has 22+ grenades to drop. The same principle applies to REs. I for one do not feel good about seeing all equipment go up by 3 because of this. I think the carried equipment count is just fine where it is. I think it's going to be great, you will be able to reposition rapidly. Grenade spam is a not a big issue in our game right now, and nanohives were not being used much except by dedicated logis. If scouts are going to use one slot to be able to throw a few grenades, then good for him. More REs will help to combat the problem with lag causing them not to stick until after a tank has driven away, and also make tank hunting a little more viable. Given the new tanks and modules I think this could turn out great. Thank you for ignoring the nade panic. People don't seem to realize that nades already eat hives thanks to previous nerfs and are pretty underpowered. I think if players decide to do the hive+nades combo they'll see how weak and predictable grenades are overall and it will be a fad toy that disappears from ppls fits after a couple weeks to make room for other equipment. Unless some logi/scout wants to carry a couple hives and some core locus grenades and see how quick they go broke. Fine by me. I really hope you will reconsider about oms. The only issue infantry had with it was being forced to play it while they were trying to avoid vehicles, and that's because av QQ was popular. I feel that if one class can cry and get an entire other class removed from a game mode, why not allow it in other cases? Since all I'm supposed to do on skirmish (according to everyone) is hack, why not remove assaults from skirmish? They cause scouts hell with all that shooting from clear across a field while I'm trying to hack. Maybe you can see from my statement how its a little absurd to remove vehicles/pilots from ambush. Perhaps having prefitted vehicles already on the ambush maps at various points would alleviate the infantry woes without straight up excluding a class from a mode. But infantry wouldn't even care about oms except that CCP started calling it ambush oms and merged it with the ambush queue; why? Letting foot soldiers pick ambush and pilots/av pick oms iisn't bad at all and deals with concerns on both sides. Oms could even be made better by allowing players to oms player owned turrets as well as vehicles. The turrets themselves are in the market, how hard would it be to sell a small/large turret base with a couple customization slots? I'd like to see this. I think everyone else too. But I think acknowledging oms as a separate mode from ambush would be muchbetter than removing it Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 362	Posted - 2015.03.07 08:24:00 - [432] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: When do you plan to release it? Before the end of March? ? Rise? That's what they used to call me. Sequal Rise. That was my name. Now I come Back to you, at the turn of the tide.
Greiv Rabbah M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 168	Posted - 2015.03.07 08:26:00 - [433] - Quote Kuruld Sengar wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Rattati, will a double myo stim Gal Assault be able to jump on a supply depot? No. I doubt it. Triple Myo Minscouts will be able to just get on the shipping crates we see a lot, which is also the highest anyone will be able to jump. Myo has no stacking penalty, so min assault and cal assault should jump higher because of the extra high slots? Calscout should be able to jump higher bc slots. I think that post was in error, the numbers should disagree i would imagine Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
GLOBAL RAGE Consolidated Dust 109	Posted - 2015.03.07 08:56:00 - [434] - Quote JUMP514
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1593	Posted - 2015.03.07 09:26:00 - [435] - Quote 'Marr assault with 3 complex myofibs and ferro plates. Mmmmm Our lives are nothing but a means to an end. AIV member. 21 day EVE trial.
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 355	Posted - 2015.03.07 09:34:00 - [436] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: 'Marr assault with 3 complex myofibs and ferro plates. Mmmmm I'm tempted to spec into myofibs now. Molestia approved
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1594	Posted - 2015.03.07 09:35:00 - [437] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: 'Marr assault with 3 complex myofibs and ferro plates. Mmmmm I'm tempted to spec into myofibs now. Shhh it'll be over soon. Pew pew pew Flaylock flaylock flaylock Our lives are nothing but a means to an end. AIV member. 21 day EVE trial.
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 246	Posted - 2015.03.07 09:42:00 - [438] - Quote higher Jumping will just create longer time spans where your velocity is not rapidly changing. If you practice (while no one is using your internet in your house to reduce lag and hit detection issues) you will see that you can hit them easier at 10m engagements. Jumping would only work in shotgun ranges. Myrobfibs look like they could be used to dodge shotgun rounds. lol. (5m engagements) Im already specced into myrofibs.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1362	Posted - 2015.03.07 10:22:00 - [439] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Now it will be possible to play dust with zero intent on skilling up AV. The intention should not be born out of despair. Please support fair play!
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 355	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:31:00 - [440] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: duster 35000 wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: 'Marr assault with 3 complex myofibs and ferro plates. Mmmmm I'm tempted to spec into myofibs now. Shhh it'll be over soon. Pew pew pew Flaylock flaylock flaylock I'd say jumping mass driver, but we all know its crappy dps, unless it's a scout. Molestia approved

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1827	Posted - 2015.03.07 11:58:00 - [441] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am even considering a squad free ambush mode. Grenades are not deployable equipment, this applies to nanohives, proximity explosives and drop uplinks. On the other topics, we will see. I believe his point is that an assault suit will be able to fill itself up on grenades over and over again. Lets say an assault only resupplies two grenades before running off. The new increase gives 5 nanohives that can be deployed at various times. This means that with only a small pause and assault carrying a hive is now essentially carrying a total of 12 grenades. Just imagine a scout on high ground with 2 sets of nanohives. He now essentially has 22+ grenades to drop. The same principle applies to REs. I for one do not feel good about seeing all equipment go up by 3 because of this. I think the carried equipment count is just fine where it is. I think it's going to be great, you will be able to reposition rapidly. Grenade spam is a not a big issue in our game right now, and nanohives were not being used much except by dedicated logis. If scouts are going to use one slot to be able to throw a few grenades, then good for him. Of course grenades are not deployable equipment! While nanohives are not. I'll elaborate my point: Grenades are now in a good point, after the said nerf (of increasing their resupply cost at nanohives). But before the nerf forums threads about nade spam were abundant. Giving +3 hives effectively counters the nerf, at least to a good part. Even now there have been some nade QQ threads, where I've been defending the skilled nade use (trick nades and cooking). But on all those threads, people's biggest concern is the nade spam - not the other things. Now for some mathematics: A single tossed-away nade takes 5s to detonate. (Easy to evade) A single cooked nade takes 5s to detonate as well. (Can be instagib) Two nades tossed-away still take 5s for first detonation. Second follows in 1 second. (No real concern there, just two explosions) Single hive enables about 6 nades tossed away. After the initial wait of 5 secs, the explosions 2. and 3. come in intervals of 1s. 4-6. with interval of 2 seconds. On the whole six explosions within eight seconds. Instatossing, or spamming, effectively increase grenade dps: the 5 seconds wait between nades does not happen. (Harder to evade several targets. Also high HP targets in jeopardy. Very effective in objective or other crowded area control). Double hive enable about 10 nades. This time all explosions 1 thru 10 happen within 1s of each other (that is because double hive cancels the resupply delay of two seconds; the hives alternate in nade resupply). The end result: Grenade dps even higher. (even better barrage than above) On the current meta: Gauged nanohives are slayers hive of choice, it fitting allows. Not because you can have more active but the fourth hive. But even with gauged hives, it's rarely been practical to create double hives as that's too much of your reserves. AV nades currently need a hive to be something other than a auxiliary AV damage source. A bonus points how proposed change would turn out: Compact nanohive would gain +300% amount boost... Imagine! Minimal fitting cost, four hives! New hive of choice for non-nade users! Triage hives would become more practical, they need more indeed. TLDR; Increasing hives carry amounts will partially undo both nade nerfs (nade carry amount and nanohive resupply cost increase) Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1827	Posted - 2015.03.07 12:04:00 - [442] - Quote An idea: For OMS, remove the pimped up (modified) tank fits. Allow only prefitted HAVs! Like the loadouts of dropsuits. They are not op for sure! One problem might be that there are no isk versions AFAIK. Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 1265	Posted - 2015.03.07 12:10:00 - [443] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: An idea: For OMS, remove the pimped up (modified) tank fits. Allow only prefitted HAVs! Like the loadouts of dropsuits. They are not op for sure! One problem might be that there are no isk versions AFAIK. Removed all vehicles is so so much better though. One of the biggest reason I did not play Ambush, Now if they could only put the smart into smart deploy and meta lockout so it not a proto stomp it just might be fun. noi¦Ü+ö+Æßû+(V)Faction
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1827	Posted - 2015.03.07 12:41:00 - [444] - Quote John Psi wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Now it will be possible to play dust with zero intent on skilling up AV. The intention should not be born out of despair. Despair argument can be used on fighting other infantry as well. Remember protostomp threads? Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
IAmDuncanIdaho II Nos Nothi 1552	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:07:00 - [445] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Scouts will be making a comeback AHAHAHA - IS FUNNY BECAUSE HE SAYS SCOUTS WILL BE MAKING A COMEBACK, IMPLYING THAT THEY EVER LEFT - AHAHAHA Fair enough . Let me rephrase. The Forums flaming and Anti-Scout posts will be making a comeback. AHAHAHA - IS FUNNY BECAUSE HE SAYS FORUMS FLAMING AND ANTI-SCOUT POSTS WILL BE MAKING A COMEBACK, IMPLYING THAT THEY EVER LEFT - AHAHAHA
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2187	Posted - 2015.03.07 13:42:00 - [446] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Kain Spero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I think it's going to be great, you will be able to reposition rapidly. Grenade spam is a not a big issue in our game right now, and nanohives were not being used much except by dedicated logis. If scouts are going to use one slot to be able to throw a few grenades, then good for him. With the issue pointed out about RE and Grendade resupply I'm somewhat concerned as well. I think it'll be something to closely monitor, but I really think that the game would be better of if grenades and REs only resupplied at a depot . On a side note, a positive side effect of making grenades and REs only resuppliable at supply depots is that blue dots will no longer deplete my nanohives within seconds of deploying them It would also mean AV players would have to resupply at them, making supply depots an even bigger 'kkill at the start of the match' target. No, afraid grenades need to stay resupplyable from hives Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 840	Posted - 2015.03.07 14:22:00 - [447] - Quote Inb4 i see cal. assaults jumping up top a rooftop with 5 myo's and massdrivers. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7588	Posted - 2015.03.07 14:42:00 - [448] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: John Psi wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Now it will be possible to play dust with zero intent on skilling up AV. The intention should not be born out of despair. Despair argument can be used on fighting other infantry as well. Remember protostomp threads? realistically does anyone think people will spec OUT of AV? My bet is no AV
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7588	Posted - 2015.03.07 14:57:00 - [449] - Quote Hey Rattati just so I'm not misunderstanding the numbers. Is the range listing in the hotfix 60ish meters for optimal or for effective on the assault? AV
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 355	Posted - 2015.03.07 15:00:00 - [450] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Inb4 i see cal. assaults jumping up top a rooftop with 5 myo's and massdrivers. You crack me up, assuming they will kill with MD'rs, now you can easily run and jump out of the way. Molestia approved



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