So... Still think the new AScR will be fine?

/me opens skill tree. Confirms I am still skilled into all ScR skills to V and Amarr assault V.

Cat, I have no idea what you are going on about. The AScR buff seems balanced in every possible way. In fact, 15% more damage may not be enough! Let's try 20%, just to be on the safe side.

I agree wholeheartedly with the damage buff. The overheat is sufficient drawback to warrant more damage.

I am iffy on the amount of damage increase. 15% is a pretty big jump. Wouldn't a smaller 10% buff be better, and we can dial it in from there?

Are you saying that the assault HMG dispersion is too big making it poor at fighting?

New AScR damage before overheat: 2352.9
New AScR damage before overheat w/Amarr Assault: 3137.2
Duvolle damage before reload: 2380

AScR DPS: 494.11
Duvolle DPS: 453.33

AScR vs Shields: 592.93
Duvolle vs Shields: 498.663

AScR vs Armor: 395.228
Duvolle vs Armor: 408

AScR effective range: 88m
Duvolle effective range: 70m

AScR reload time: 2.5s
Duvolle reload time: 3s

Duvolle mag size: 70
AScR mag size: 72


So... Still think the new AScR will be fine?
Because the way I see it, it does more damage before overheat than a Duvolle does in an entire clip, its clip is larger, it reloads faster, it has more range, and to top it all off, it barely drops against armor compared to the Duvolle.

That's right, it has nearly the same DPS vs armor as the Duvolle, AND it does 100 more DPS than the Duvolle against shields.

Honestly griev I'd love to see mass affect suits. Inertia as well.

But allow me to amend a half concept I have.

I feel heavy weapons rigged to dominate the long game and provide fire support should be clunky , and unwieldy in close. So if we take a ranged Hmg that has a 70-100 optimal then a scout or assault should absolutely have a clear advantage if they get within 20m.

By yhe same token breach and CQC weapons can't be clunky. Which brings me to the burst HMG. If you get a llittle too excited? It kills you. If you have excellent self control it's devastating. But it isn't the "insert logi, hold down trigger."

Because of how heavies work and how they do attrition combat if the long rang weapons got hammered in close and the cqc weapons weren't just casually easy to farm kills then we wouldn't have to worry.

Heavies would be a rock solid support platform that has flexibility if you change loadouts. It shouldn't be as flexible as a lighter frame or commando. I.E. you set up for a specific job. If sents worked more like that choices and tactics would matter.

It's why sure, were Rattati to adopt say my scram lance, even at level 5 if you hold the trigger down to the end of the magazine you're going to eat 720 damage because yhe gun won't seize, it'll try to kill you. On the ansent the DPS isn't as obnoxious. But the amsent would take 355 damage. Less to armor.

I loke heavy weapons to have good power. But they need exploitable drawbacks.

That would be a possibility too. The main point I'm getting at is that the whole "empty the magazine and hope you kill the target, if not you're probably going to die" mechanic is just....bad. It was overpowered before, its possibly nonviable now given these changes, and I just don't think that philosophy is going to work in general. What the proper philosophy is should probably be discussed in another thread, but I think the current one needs to change or it's just never going to work properly.


EDIT: Also....just a thought I had. If Mirofibs are making things jump higher, and if fall damage is untouched, at we going to see Scouts ...jumping themselves to death?

I actually have prof on it to IV, it's the second rifle I got to higher than prof III kek.

Same here.

And again, this buff is overkill. Severe overkill.

To be fair, the instagank mechanic really made armor tanking unenjoyable because well....no one likes to be instaganked with little ability to retaliate. I think something needed to change, but I also don't think I'm a huge fan of what happened. From what I can tell the damage per magazine didn't change, it just takes twice as long to apply the damage now and then....more reload time for some reason.

I guess I feel like the concept of "I have to drop all 12 of these missiles into the guy and instakill it, otherwise I'm going to die during the reload" is.....really not going to be enjoyable overall. At the very least i don't think it suits a Missile Turret. I mean lets try to look at it this way:

Blasters do crazy DPS up close with good tracking, but fail at long range due to falloff and sustained damage because of overheat and magazine size.

Railguns do good burst damage at range with crappy tracking, but fail at close range due to tracking and sustained damage because of overheat and magazine size.

Typically Missiles in EVE are useful because they are effective at any range from 0km to their max flight range of Xkm. They quite good at doing long sustained damage thats typically very consistent DPS. So why don't we instead move away from the "Instagank" concept we're trying to dance around with Missiles and go with a more "Effective at many ranges with moderate DPS but supurb sustained DPS because it lacks an overheat mechanic". In other words I would drop down the damage per magazine considerably, but also drastically decrease the reload time. That way the first volley is not lethal, but it will do considerable damage to an enemy vehicle (Preferably with its hardener down) but not kill it, and then quickly recover with a swift reload for round 2.

The idea is that you want to ambush the vehicle to do as much damage as you can with the hardener down with the full understanding that you're not going to kill it, so that when the hardener does come up, the target vehicle is at much lower starting HP for the engagement. Missiles should be effective at both short and long range, and while they may not be able to out-DPS the other turrets within their overheat time, their sustained DPS is considerably higher once the Blaster and Rail have to wait to cool off/reload.

Yes, the DPS was excessive, and I agree with that nerf.

I don't agree with ANY of the other ones though. Reload speed should have actually had a buff to compensate for rails getting a larger magazine, total ammo increased instead of decreased.... I listed all of my reasons earlier. Missiles will be completely irrelevant to the rail after Echo.

haha yeah missiles are the reason Maddies don't show up, but it's swarm missiles, not large missiles. Large missiles are even rarer than Madrugars.

So I don't know if you've ever tried using blasters against a Madrugar, but it's way more effective than using missiles on a Gunnlogi. Or using missiles against infantry. Or missiles against anything except a Madrugar who doesn't know you're there.

Which warranted a DPS nerf. Not a nerf to every stat besides range...

That's alot worse than armor...stacking extenders and a cardiac reg? Good luck with the crappy regen, you may as well use armor at that point.

Gunlogis don't use nitro, maddy's do.

If they are going to be the same in strength, cooldown and uptimes need to be equal as well. So nope, not against it at all.

I doubt anyone will listen to one of the few people who have actually been using the small blaster over the past few months...

They do not need buffing
Don't ask me why no one uses them, or why some people who get in my tank/LAV can't hit a heavy stood still directly in front of them. But for gods sake, trust me when I say I can mow people down with them.

1v1 against a blaster LAV, infantry is boned, it can't run fast enough to escape, unless it's right next to cover (and even then it's 50/50.) A tank with one small blaster on the front, can mow down swarmers (which I like, but the infantry will not.) Forge gunners are so fat and slow, you will almost always get a headshot kill.


This isn't going to adversely affect me in any way, it's just going to make me stronger. But please Rattati, try one of these things out in a few matches, get used to aiming with it and see just how wrong this buff is.


~~~
Everything else looks interesting, if not promising, especially nerfing the spray-ability of the rails and upping the cost of multiple hardeners.

I would much rather have your idea from before. Empty magazine, taking out a huge chunk of HP from your target before they get their hardeners/other modules up, and then start the fight as you normally would, but you now have a great advantage over your opponent. It's better than the insta-gib mentality we have now, and MUCH better than what Rattati has put up there.

So, reduce magazine size to 10 missiles, reduce ROF by 30% instead of 50%, decrease reload time to around 5 seconds before skills, and then increase total ammo to be around 2.5x of rails so they can have comparable total damage.This way, you still have an ambush weapon, but you will require a reload or two to kill any well fit tank. It will still be the bane of low ehp or MLT tanks, but that's its purpose IMO.

The majority of players can't pilot an ads for peanuts, but that hasn't stopped balance being based around those who can use them.

I've always seen the jumpyness of the small turrets as a problem by itself, which this will not solve... This will leave it just as difficult to hit something while moving, while everyone complains about the drivers who position well and slow down to let them shoot... Followed by a nerf.

I could be wrong though... Time will likely tell.

The HMG wouldn't need a NERF if you lowered heavy turn speed you know.

I see the return of Sentinels with light weapons.

Yes, the dispersion from the assault hmg should be 0% , this is not OP, because you will also lose against other havys in cqc.

The HMG wouldn't need a NERF if you lowered heavy turn speed you know.

I see the return of Sentinels with light weapons.

IMO the profiles should be:

Laser = +10% / -10%
Explosive = -10% / +10%
Rail = -5% / +5%
Plasma = +5% / -5%
Projectile = +7.5% / -7.5%

But the assault hmg isn't suppose to win against other hmgs at cqc.
Its supposed to be more effective at long range but loses at cqc compared with the normal hmg
Also, CCP Rattati, can we please get you to weigh in a little for this guy, he went through quite a bit of effort to get his point made in English even though its obviously not his native language


This is pretty much some of what breaking and I were talking about. There used to be a turn speed penalty and nobody liked it bc speed tanking minjas with knives were unstoppable at .5m despite that

Wait for it, I love saying this... Okay:
if you're in a game where everybody else has a gun, and the guy who killed you got within .5m without one, he beat you with skill, nothing op about it.
Edit: fear the NERFVALANCHE!