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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 32 post(s) |
Most Sneakiest
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
27
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Posted - 2015.03.06 12:05:00 -
[301] - Quote
CLONE ALPHA 001 wrote:two small thing i really really really really really REALLY wanna see fixed. 1. when an amarr logi dies all it links lose their bonus 2 vehicle requests denied when calling them in while inside of some sockets please fix
Almost 1/4 of the map with the large hangar in the middle (not sure of the name...not sure if anyone knows the name) blocks all vehicle requests due to "location unacceptable" .
Noob [Kaalakiota Sniper Rifle] Most Sneakiest
A few kills later...
Most Sneakiest [Militia Sniper Rifle] Noob
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn
156
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Posted - 2015.03.06 12:15:00 -
[302] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Imp, area denial for a sentinel should be, for example:... Can I stop ya there for a sec? Area denial is that thing a minlogi does where you're trying to get through a doorway but they have remotes set. And have practiced aiming the mass driver for short-mid range anti infantry area denial purposes(this and light av are what mass driver is made for) Sentinels are for point defense and heavy av, basically. Sentinels, as the name would indicate, are basically analogous to Knights in other RPGs. Massive armor rating, minimal dexterity, long delay between attack turns, low movement speed. Can they take down a horse? Of course of course. Can they take down an elephant? With some work and a big enough weapon sure, but should need some help from party. Can they take town a big bird? If it flies at the base they're defending, you better believe it! A sentinel is intended to fortify a castle. Yes theyre the one going toe-to-toe when you fight the big bad critters, but that's because otherwise the mage, ranger, rogue, and berserker get targeted and they cant survive a hit.
"Here's the issue: The sentinel is the go-to suit for CQC." That is an issue. Like a guy wearing 3 sets of armor layered over each other turning as fast as a guy in a leather jumpsuit. That's an issue. But sentinels cried for it and made it happen somehow. Im gonna ignore your statement where you dont mention how forge guns decimate dropships and swarms are fairly ineffective against any pilot with more than half a brain.
"...the ONLY thing keeping the PLC from making the forge gun into the most inferior option is how hard it is to hit a damn barn past 20m." This is not a bad thing. Basically an av shotgun. Working almost as intended.
"So once the HMG heavy is phased out, if forge guns are not adjusted, Sentinels are going to be... the most impressive target in play. That's not a role." Yes it is. Its called minja. Minja is the target practice role BECAUSE we were king of cqc. Why? Because our role description was TO BE king of cqc. If sentinel 514 is coming to an end... Thank god.
"Sentinels were built and billed as a suppression platform (which it has never succeeded at)" Nope. The assault is a suppression fighter. They're the ranger, sentinel is the knight. When the assault takes a couple hits they get behind cover. Or better, they get behind the knight. A sentinel should knock down anything it sees that approaches what/where its defending. An assault has the range to be a suppression unit. A commando can't armor up as heavy but can attack much quicker and hits harder with their favored weapon. This whole "classes" thing CCP went with is one of the last RPG remnants in dust, and it largely is working as intended
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Edgar Reinhart
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2015.03.06 12:21:00 -
[303] - Quote
Interested to see how it all plays out. Been playing for just under a year and have never ran anything apart from the starter fits. Decided right from the go that I was going to play this by trying to max out each of the starter suits before moving onto anything more advanced..... so slightly disappointed that my recently completed investment into sniper rifles is now going to waste, but looking forwards to skilling up the PLC.
Also just started earning a ton more warpoints by running stable drop uplinks on my starter suit..... so that niche has gone too.
With the basic frame changes does it look like an advanced medium frame be able to be fitted out better than a basic assault suit? That's the problem I have at the moment. Why run the advanced medium when it costs less ISK to run an advanced assault AND you get a couple of hundred more eHP and the basic frames ability to add an extra module is more than compensated for by the assaults bonus'.
A basic assault fitted with all basic modules costs around 11,500 ISK and has it's bonus'
an advanced medium fitted the same way with one extra basic damage mod costs around 18000 ISK with almost 200 less eHP
I expect the same is true of the other specialist suits too.
It's less about the fitting abilities and more about cost/risk for me. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to run the standard medium suits. Stay in the starter fits until you've got an assault. Then run that.
Not sure what the answer is but maybe it's something either like make the specialist suits much more expensive so it's an investment to run them, or don't unlock them until level 5 or both. If I'm almost better off, from a survivability point of view, running a basic assault than a prototype medium why would I run the medium? and if I can afford to run prototype mediums, why wouldn't I be running prototype assaults?? I expect the same is true for scouts and lights. Basic heavys seem to be slightly different because eHP/HMG.
Not moaning or complaining just interested in peoples views.
Anyway thanks for reading and I'll be dying for the cause in my trusty starter tonight. |
Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn
156
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Posted - 2015.03.06 12:24:00 -
[304] - Quote
Most Sneakiest wrote:CLONE ALPHA 001 wrote:two small thing i really really really really REALLY wanna see fixed. 1. when an amarr logi dies all it links lose their bonus 2 vehicle requests denied when calling them in while inside of some sockets please fix Almost 1/4 of the map with the large hangar in the middle (not sure of the name...not sure if anyone knows the name) blocks all vehicle requests due to "location unacceptable" .
1. Working as intended. Fix incoming when your sentinel learns to protect their logi. Just bc a mage specializes in something that isn't healing, doesn't mean they don't need protecting. In fact, an amarr logistics bonus makes their links impressive enough that its a veritable call to arms. If the amarr logi is protected, reinforcements WILL be coming. SOON! 2. Yes. Wtf with this?! (Stands on the road away from cover) "I'll just call my quafe methana in bc my callisto doesnt exist anymore..." "Location inaccessible" "dafuq?!" "Location inaccessible" "location inaccessible" "team quota reached"
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law
936
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Posted - 2015.03.06 12:27:00 -
[305] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Mostly excited for the patch as it has potential..
Have same concerns as a few others.
Scrambler buff... Ok so no one in thier right mind runs shield fits as Armor>Shields... so lets buff the anti shield gun that no one is using since no one runs shields...
Instead of 3 people running shields on the server there will be around 1... the problem is using the scrambler sucks against armor and EVERYONE IS RUNNING ARMOR... balance shields first then look at the scrambler rifle.
Yo Rattati armor hardeners needed some love but going from 50% worse than shield hardeners to 50% better is swaying the pendulum pretty far in the direction of armor tanks. Infantry is already dominated by armor.. we want tanks doing the same thing?
That duration is going to make running Incubus and armor HAVS the only option... 30% makes far more sense given how long they last. Shield tanks have like 900 armor that spells death to any weapon while armor tanks have like 1200 shields that is used as a buffer...
while the regulators are a good start, without shield boosters being viable there are going to be A LOT of armor tanks.
Myofibrils + RE spam is going to get old fast Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity. Says the guy who bases everything off numbers while knowing nothing about his own game meta.
10100111001
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
10100111001
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Jebus McKing
Nos Nothi
1634
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Posted - 2015.03.06 12:39:00 -
[306] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:[...]all starter fits had the same PG/CPU capacity. [...] Massively increase and equalize all Basic Medium Frame capacity[...] Wait, you are giving all Basic Medium Frames the same PG/CPU no matter what race they are?
That would mean e.g. a PRO MN Basic Medium Frame would have 2 CPU less but a whopping 9 PG more than a PRO MN Assault.
EDIT: Also in the spreadsheet CPU and PG are wrongly labeled me thinks.
Jebus hates scans.
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WeapondigitX V7
The Exemplars RISE of LEGION
242
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:06:00 -
[307] - Quote
The hit detection of melee on all suits moving sideways is very bad still, its hard to assassinate targets from behind cause they move at 100% movement speed.
I would suggest making melee act like a horizontal damage arch instead of pinpoint damage. this would allow me to hit targets slight positioned to the left or right of me.
Additionally please increase the range of melee by 0.5m-1.0m.
Meaning the current range of 0.5m could be increased to 1.0m to 1.5m.
These 2 changes would help with hit detection issues and assassination issues (assassination with 2 hits not 1 like the nova knifes do) |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7564
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:15:00 -
[308] - Quote
Way to take everything out of context griev. Reading comprehension. Get some. Look at what I actually SAY rather than what you think I intend.
The tank/DPS/Healer mmotif doesn't work in DUST. The game doesn't work that way. If the ONLY thing you can do is take more damage that's not a role. It'd be a role if you could force everyone to focus on you and survive the onslaught well.
Ability to take a pounding should ENABLE a role, not BE the role. Just like being a fast little pain in the ass should enable a minscout role, not BE the role. Unfortunately that's what we got. You should be able to utilize a suit effectively for thingyou're not optimized for by default idif you are willing to make fitting sacrifices.
The way the minscout is set up it should be a shoe in for opportunist assassin and saboteur. Believe me I understand. It's gotten a little too easy to spot and kill minjas before they kill you. I've been resorting to using an ACR with damps (no cloak) to get behind people and blaze them with the ACR.
Trying to get closer is damn near suicide. But those NKs diced that commando pretty good.
Please do not assume I am considering ANYTHING in a vacuum. I actively have no sympathy for anyone who fails to properly tank an LAV they deserve to die in their suicide sleds. Dropships I'm waiting till their next (hopefully last for a while) balance smoothing pass To chime in on ideas to increase their survivability.
Sentinels don't have to hit harder than other AV. They don't need to be "better" in CQC. I would honestly be happier if the sentinel suit, whether in a defensive role or an attack support role was rock-steady, consistent and overall effective. Should someone be situationally better? Absolutely, if a PLC isn't better at ripping balls off in close why have the PLC?
Do I really give a sh*t that commandos might potentially dish out pain faster? No. But the idea that it shouldn't function better than any suit in any situation in any role is a bad one. The idea that "it's not bonused that way means you shouldn't use it that way" is resisted like it's here to enslave people but people try to force-feed it to heavies.
People want heavies in CQC. Yet they scream it's OP in CQC. And even if we delete the HMG entirely we wind up with heavies running ACR and AR with their logi leashes being almost as OP in CQC.
Why do we want to keep them in CQC again?
Finally area denisl is not limited to RE traps. Area denial is any tactic used to DENY ENTRY into an area. This can be done with traps, ambushes, mines or overwhelming firepower.
Right now sentinrls are awesome at CQC. Too awesome. They suck ass at area denial and speccing swarms is just the better option than the forge. Whare do we go from here?
I have a few ideas on where to go. But I'm not hearing a lot of alternatives from the crowd that aren't "heavies are fine" or "YAAAAY NERF THEM INTO THE GROUND."
AV
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ROMULUS H3X
research lab
337
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:29:00 -
[309] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:The hit detection of melee on all suits moving sideways is very bad still, its hard to assassinate targets from behind cause they move at 100% movement speed.
I would suggest making melee act like a horizontal damage arch instead of pinpoint damage. this would allow me to hit targets slight positioned to the left or right of me.
Additionally please increase the range of melee by 0.5m-1.0m.
Meaning the current range of 0.5m could be increased to 1.0m to 1.5m.
These 2 changes would help with hit detection issues and assassination issues (assassination with 2 hits not 1 like the nova knifes do)
Well, i think the backpeddling reduction will be a good start. Let's see how this works in conjunction with super jumps first before we increase Melee range.. don't want to make it too easy now
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS
PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH
ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
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Sergei Domar
Rautaleijona
43
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:38:00 -
[310] - Quote
As quite few other people in this thread, I too, would like to say I am concerned about Assault Scramblers effectivness
It has been my favorite weapon already for couple months and I have found it very effective especially on Advanced amarr assault/Advanced level rifle. I am excited to try it out after buff
With current skills it heats on final round and I don't have amarr suits 5, (I think I have it at 3). Only way to cook it off is to fire your magazine almost empty, reload and shoot again and it heats on second magazine. Slight adjustment maybe needed.
I'm waiting for what usage stats will say about this, slight buff was in order but really concerned now about rifle becoming too strong especially compared to shorter range assault rifles.
If AScR proves to be too strong, in my opinion changes should be done with slightly reduced damage and increased heat. Range feels about right now, heat doesn't feel ok and new damage concerns me.
Let's see how it works, if for nothing else than to to keep meta moving. |
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
18102
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:40:00 -
[311] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Mostly excited for the patch as it has potential..
Have same concerns as a few others.
Scrambler buff... Ok so no one in thier right mind runs shield fits as Armor>Shields... so lets buff the anti shield gun that no one is using since no one runs shields...
Instead of 3 people running shields on the server there will be around 1... the problem is using the scrambler sucks against armor and EVERYONE IS RUNNING ARMOR... balance shields first then look at the scrambler rifle.
Yo Rattati armor hardeners needed some love but going from 50% worse than shield hardeners to 50% better is swaying the pendulum pretty far in the direction of armor tanks. Infantry is already dominated by armor.. we want tanks doing the same thing?
That duration is going to make running Incubus and armor HAVS the only option... 30% makes far more sense given how long they last. Shield tanks have like 900 armor that spells death to any weapon while armor tanks have like 1200 shields that is used as a buffer...
while the regulators are a good start, without shield boosters being viable there are going to be A LOT of armor tanks.
Myofibrils + RE spam is going to get old fast Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity. Says the guy who bases everything off numbers while knowing nothing about his own game meta.
yeah totally
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Nos Nothi
4393
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:42:00 -
[312] - Quote
Out of curiosity, Rattati - why are both of the new vehicle utility modules in high slots? Great, I get access to fitting modules, hooray, I can still fit nothing more than usual because of the catastrophically high costs of the modules. I get a new tank module! great! Now I have nothing else to fit in those slots.
Why is it necessary to give all utility to the Madrugar, as well as making it near as durable as the Gunnlogi?
EDIT: I just realised that you're also in the process of (effectively) nerfing the effectiveness of AV against armour - it seems what's happening here is that the Gunnlogi's eHP is being (effectively) cut, on top of the Large Missile nerf - with the Large Blaster seeing so many repeated buffs, I'm really starting to struggle seeing a place for Gunnlogis. I mean, hell - I can't even escape from a blaster Madrugar thanks to him being faster than me and also having space for nitrous without interrupting tank.
Breakin Stuff wrote:anaboop wrote:@rat , im still awaiting reasoning or explaination on the missiles changes. Missiles were the reason madrugars are the rarest thing on the field. So their DPS was cut in half. Missiles can do 3700 DPS easily. That's not balanced against anything. haha yeah missiles are the reason Maddies don't show up, but it's swarm missiles, not large missiles. Large missiles are even rarer than Madrugars.
Godin wrote: Because It being a better CQ weapon than blasters is silly.
So I don't know if you've ever tried using blasters against a Madrugar, but it's way more effective than using missiles on a Gunnlogi. Or using missiles against infantry. Or missiles against anything except a Madrugar who doesn't know you're there.
Guys, we need to stop calling MU a 'matchmaker' when it's actually a 'teambuilder'.
And I want to play FE:A now. Damn.
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
837
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:47:00 -
[313] - Quote
Shields are not equal ya know why? Cause a proto scrambler rifle hit can take out 100HP shields with a single hit. A decent Cal. Assault fit has around 600HP shields and maybe a damage mod/recharger. So all of that shields are gone with 6 well placed shots and maybe even less if i would stack damage mods on top of it.
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn
158
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:57:00 -
[314] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Way to take everything out of context griev. Reading comprehension. Get some. Look at what I actually SAY rather than what you think I intend. ... Finally area denisl is not limited to RE traps. Area denial is any tactic used to DENY ENTRY into an area. This can be done with traps, ambushes, mines or overwhelming firepower. Reading comprehension? Really. You get some. I don't really want to hear that from someone who always injects their own opinions about what they think I'm trying to say into what I'm actually saying.
I feel that mass drivers are (as intended) more effective area denial than REs. If you spent a little less time convincing yourself I'm a troll, you might realize I have a brain. Most of your post was decent and I'm glad to see it, but I can't let "The tank/DPS/Healer mmotif doesn't work in DUST." slide when one of the things that works best in this game (given intelligent players with teamwork capability) is the rpg style class system.
I never said heavies should only be able to take damage, i actually said anything they spot they should be able to knock down. Sure minja should be able to knock one down if not spotted and similarly leveled, but believe it or not im not here to beat that dead horse today. I am here to try to provide constructive feedback and i can do it without insulting others Or making assumptions about what i think they think I think they were trying to say. Lighten up bruh. Ever since the day I saw ppl trolling you in devhangout about av and threw in my two bits (after saying I have no issues with you and think you've got a good head on you) you've been up my ass pretty consistently.
I don't think bsentinels should be nerfed into the ground. I think amarr need light av, mass driver needs to become light av again(were about to take a good step in that direction) and I think we need 3 more heavy av and 3 more heavy anti foot soldier weapons. I don't want any class to be as useless as the minja and amscout have been for the past while. I also feel that sentinels are a little too much ATM, but not anything that can't be fixed. CCP just doesn't need to make all their buff/nerf decisions on what the op fit of the year is. Its how you wind up with sentinel 514 in the first place
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
293
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Posted - 2015.03.06 13:59:00 -
[315] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:HOLY PERFECTION wrote:CCP WHY ARE MISSILES GETTING NERFED SO MUCH. ACTUALLY AT ALL? Because It being a better CQ weapon than blasters is silly. Which warranted a DPS nerf. Not a nerf to every stat besides range...
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
910
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Posted - 2015.03.06 14:06:00 -
[316] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Doc DDD wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Mostly excited for the patch as it has potential..
Have same concerns as a few others.
Scrambler buff... Ok so no one in thier right mind runs shield fits as Armor>Shields... so lets buff the anti shield gun that no one is using since no one runs shields...
Instead of 3 people running shields on the server there will be around 1... the problem is using the scrambler sucks against armor and EVERYONE IS RUNNING ARMOR... balance shields first then look at the scrambler rifle.
Yo Rattati armor hardeners needed some love but going from 50% worse than shield hardeners to 50% better is swaying the pendulum pretty far in the direction of armor tanks. Infantry is already dominated by armor.. we want tanks doing the same thing?
That duration is going to make running Incubus and armor HAVS the only option... 30% makes far more sense given how long they last. Shield tanks have like 900 armor that spells death to any weapon while armor tanks have like 1200 shields that is used as a buffer...
while the regulators are a good start, without shield boosters being viable there are going to be A LOT of armor tanks.
Myofibrils + RE spam is going to get old fast Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity. So with all those PC stats collected... Caldari suits ( Shield based ) that don't fit cloaks are on par with all the other suits in numbers spawned in, kills and KDR? Or any stat? I will look for the stats but I am pretty sure there are about 3 people that run Caldari suits. All at range next to cover. i run cal assault. depending on how you fit your suit, it can... not suck. regen fits do need to stay next to cover. other fits allow the suit to operate outside of cover, but long range is preferred lol Not really. You can stay at cover, and eveytime you shoot someone one time, they will shoot you and do alot of damage, forcing you to regen every time, while they continue advancing on you. If you have 600 shields, you get a 50 rep rate, which is not much of an an advantage over armor ever since the rep buff.
i just stack extenders and regulators. and a cardiac regulator at proto. its the most functional fit ive come up with that cover a wide range of scenarios |
Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn
158
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Posted - 2015.03.06 14:07:00 -
[317] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Out of curiosity, Rattati - why are both of the new vehicle utility modules in high slots? Great, I get access to fitting modules, hooray, I can still fit nothing more than usual because of the catastrophically high costs of the modules. I get a new tank module! great! Now I have nothing else to fit in those slots. Why is it necessary to give all utility to the Madrugar, as well as making it near as durable as the Gunnlogi? EDIT: I just realised that you're also in the process of (effectively) nerfing the effectiveness of AV against armour - it seems what's happening here is that the Gunnlogi's eHP is being (effectively) cut, on top of the Large Missile nerf - with the Large Blaster seeing so many repeated buffs, I'm really starting to struggle seeing a place for Gunnlogis. I mean, hell - I can't even escape from a blaster Madrugar thanks to him being faster than me and also having space for nitrous without interrupting tank. Breakin Stuff wrote:anaboop wrote:@rat , im still awaiting reasoning or explaination on the missiles changes. Missiles were the reason madrugars are the rarest thing on the field. So their DPS was cut in half. Missiles can do 3700 DPS easily. That's not balanced against anything. haha yeah missiles are the reason Maddies don't show up, but it's swarm missiles, not large missiles. Large missiles are even rarer than Madrugars. Godin wrote: Because It being a better CQ weapon than blasters is silly.
So I don't know if you've ever tried using blasters against a Madrugar, but it's way more effective than using missiles on a Gunnlogi. Or using missiles against infantry. Or missiles against anything except a Madrugar who doesn't know you're there.
The gunnlogi pilots cry a little hard, but all av is armor av except PLC and flux grenades, and as soon as a PLC or a scout running with a grenade is spotted, gunnlogis nitro out of there so fast you'd think an rdv picked them up. Agree about the large missile turret. And why is it the only turret that isn't available mlt?
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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duster 35000
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
351
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Posted - 2015.03.06 15:07:00 -
[318] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Doc DDD wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:
Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity.
So with all those PC stats collected... Caldari suits ( Shield based ) that don't fit cloaks are on par with all the other suits in numbers spawned in, kills and KDR? Or any stat? I will look for the stats but I am pretty sure there are about 3 people that run Caldari suits. All at range next to cover. i run cal assault. depending on how you fit your suit, it can... not suck. regen fits do need to stay next to cover. other fits allow the suit to operate outside of cover, but long range is preferred lol Not really. You can stay at cover, and eveytime you shoot someone one time, they will shoot you and do alot of damage, forcing you to regen every time, while they continue advancing on you. If you have 600 shields, you get a 50 rep rate, which is not much of an an advantage over armor ever since the rep buff. i just stack extenders and regulators. and a cardiac regulator at proto. its the most functional fit ive come up with that cover a wide range of scenarios That's alot worse than armor...stacking extenders and a cardiac reg? Good luck with the crappy regen, you may as well use armor at that point.
Molestia approved
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duster 35000
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
351
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Posted - 2015.03.06 15:08:00 -
[319] - Quote
Greiv Rabbah wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Out of curiosity, Rattati - why are both of the new vehicle utility modules in high slots? Great, I get access to fitting modules, hooray, I can still fit nothing more than usual because of the catastrophically high costs of the modules. I get a new tank module! great! Now I have nothing else to fit in those slots. Why is it necessary to give all utility to the Madrugar, as well as making it near as durable as the Gunnlogi? EDIT: I just realised that you're also in the process of (effectively) nerfing the effectiveness of AV against armour - it seems what's happening here is that the Gunnlogi's eHP is being (effectively) cut, on top of the Large Missile nerf - with the Large Blaster seeing so many repeated buffs, I'm really starting to struggle seeing a place for Gunnlogis. I mean, hell - I can't even escape from a blaster Madrugar thanks to him being faster than me and also having space for nitrous without interrupting tank. Breakin Stuff wrote:anaboop wrote:@rat , im still awaiting reasoning or explaination on the missiles changes. Missiles were the reason madrugars are the rarest thing on the field. So their DPS was cut in half. Missiles can do 3700 DPS easily. That's not balanced against anything. haha yeah missiles are the reason Maddies don't show up, but it's swarm missiles, not large missiles. Large missiles are even rarer than Madrugars. Godin wrote: Because It being a better CQ weapon than blasters is silly.
So I don't know if you've ever tried using blasters against a Madrugar, but it's way more effective than using missiles on a Gunnlogi. Or using missiles against infantry. Or missiles against anything except a Madrugar who doesn't know you're there. The gunnlogi pilots cry a little hard, but all av is armor av except PLC and flux grenades, and as soon as a PLC or a scout running with a grenade is spotted, gunnlogis nitro out of there so fast you'd think an rdv picked them up. Agree about the large missile turret. And why is it the only turret that isn't available mlt? Gunlogis don't use nitro, maddy's do.
Molestia approved
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn
158
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Posted - 2015.03.06 15:33:00 -
[320] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:True Adamance wrote:Imp Smash wrote:
Incorrect. Because area denial roles require mobility. Heavies don't have that. The idea of a heavy being outside but being dangerous at range doesn't work because the heavy can't move around the battle field and change their area of denial. All they do is become open area campers and can't really commit to the battle very often as, when said battle moves or changes, that heavy won't catch up to the next fight till it is already over. Heavies will earn virtually no WP. Basically, they will be the closer range, slower moving version of a redline sniper.
That's the reason why people who play a lot of Sent don't want to do this. Mobility is the single most important factor in long range battles -- and since Sents don't have it they won't be able to do it.
Heavies out of CQC is a ludicrous idea. Change map design so that more points are open with no cover. That would right there solve your problem with no changes needed.
Breakin is right about one thing though -- this won't kick heavies out of CQC at all. It might reduce the number of them though.
No they simply don't. I don't need to move for my Laser Rifle to clear entire sections of the map. I get into position I can stay there as long as I need to. In other games once I get my Tiger H1 into position (its a heavy tank with a big gun) very little but well placed high calibre shots can dislodge me. You simply do not need to move to fulfil an area denial role, you simply need to get into position within the area and BAM you have a sweet spot of wreaking havoc. You can defend an open area. Seeing as map design puts the VAST amount of points in areas with plenty of cover --- no -- you won't be contributing as much to objective game modes as much with a laser. I run a laser as well. And yes, there are some points on some maps where a laser (or a heavy with a laser like autocannon) could be helpful. But very little in relation to objectives. Add to that the heavy extra large hitbox (and head hitbox) giving a heavy less ability to take cover and you have a sitting duck to RRs, Scramblers, Lasers, snipers, and forgeguns. Simply because any suit can post up anywhere and shoot at that heavy, duck behind whatever rock or hill is in the area, and pop back out due to their mobility. Cloaked scouts will be having a field day. Heavies can't move so -- LAVS. Or HAVs. Roadkills for hilarity. Basically when doing area denial you need to control range. And to control range you need mobility. The thing heavies are the worst at. Let's imagine tactics. Ok. hack point in this building. Large open plains all around. Lets put a couple of Sents on the roof with their laser like HMGs. That will be plenty good defense. Except Laser. Ok lets assume the HMG outranges the laser. Sniper or cloaky shotgun. Sentinels will literally be unable to defend anything simply because before anyone hits them they will die. I mean, I like tactics, and counter tactics to Sents is a great thing. Unless there is no counter to that counter in which case no more heavies outside of forge sniping. Oh wait -- you are an Amarr Assault just like me. You forget that 1. AmAss have more speed. 2.A shitton of HP for an assault 3. Smaller Hitbox and 4.A TON of stamina to use to help move around the battlefield. Basically all of the stuff required to be effective at ranged combat. Lets try to force heavies out into the open so that the MinSent and Am Sent become the only SemiViable heavies and laugh at the GalSent and CalSent. All this is assuming the HMG stays the only 1 of 2 heavy weapons. We might get more heavy weapons. Should they all be outside only too? And the fact that ranged area denial suits need nano hives but heavies can't carry them. Way too many holes in this argument. And all of the above ONLY breaks the HMG. It STILL doesn't kick heavies out of CQC. All we will see is the overwhelming majority of heavies picking up light weapons. Only bringing out the HMG a small percentage of the time to shoot off of a roof when reds are rushing it (which the Assault HMG SHOULD be doing anyway!) On an unrelated note. Leadfoot10 wrote:All of them look good to me, with one exception....
myofib jumping + explosives myofib jumping + shotgun myofib jumping + knives
...in combination with reduced backpeddle speed, is going to make for some serious QQ, I suspect.
Looking forward to the update....Lead Scouts will be making a comeback You make a number of points that warrant discussion, but I'd like to point out that in cqc, the hmg is practically king(as of last time I played sentinel. Its a cone of death. Pulling the hmg from cqc to short-mid is fine if flamethrower. Also, sentinels still nk-stab harder than anyone, you can't take them out of cqc. Why would you want to? Sentinels are defenders. They need to be able to defend their party at close range too. The only thing that should really be killing a sentinel at cqc range consistently is either flanking squaddies or a well hidden scout creeping up for a stealth kill.
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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The-Errorist
1080
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Posted - 2015.03.06 15:54:00 -
[321] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Update, and the spreadsheet is updated as well, and added to the OP.
"After making the Starter loadouts much better, we ran into the issue of PG/CPU capacity. The situation was tricky because Militia and Standard Basic Frames were not in parity, and we wanted to simplify fitting so that all starter fits had the same PG/CPU capacity. However, we also had an old issue we could fix at the same time, Basic Medium Frames have been underpowered for a while and the solution was simple. Massively increase and equalize all Basic Medium Frame capacity, make them worth skilling up to Prototype, and give Militia Dropsuits a reduced, fixed % of Standard capacity. So thatGÇÖs what we did. Coupled with the fact that we reduced the ISK cost of Basic Dropsuits in a recent hotfix, will hopefully make them viable choices for battle. To fine-tune the Starter loadouts, and increase parity of militia choices, we also made tweaks to the PG/CPU requirements of a few militia items as well." You should make basic medium frames generalists instead of skill-bonus-less assaults with extra capacity.
Basic medium frames could achieve that by having +5m increase in scan radius, 2 equipment slots at all tiers, 1 less module slot compared to assaults, a bit more PG/CPU, and a bit less HP than assaults, but more than logistics.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2550419
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law
936
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Posted - 2015.03.06 15:59:00 -
[322] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Mostly excited for the patch as it has potential..
Have same concerns as a few others.
Scrambler buff... Ok so no one in thier right mind runs shield fits as Armor>Shields... so lets buff the anti shield gun that no one is using since no one runs shields...
Instead of 3 people running shields on the server there will be around 1... the problem is using the scrambler sucks against armor and EVERYONE IS RUNNING ARMOR... balance shields first then look at the scrambler rifle.
Yo Rattati armor hardeners needed some love but going from 50% worse than shield hardeners to 50% better is swaying the pendulum pretty far in the direction of armor tanks. Infantry is already dominated by armor.. we want tanks doing the same thing?
That duration is going to make running Incubus and armor HAVS the only option... 30% makes far more sense given how long they last. Shield tanks have like 900 armor that spells death to any weapon while armor tanks have like 1200 shields that is used as a buffer...
while the regulators are a good start, without shield boosters being viable there are going to be A LOT of armor tanks.
Myofibrils + RE spam is going to get old fast Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity. Says the guy who bases everything off numbers while knowing nothing about his own game meta. yeah totally :)
10100111001
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
10100111001
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention
1296
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:13:00 -
[323] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
Just throwing this out there but if we assume both will be 40%....is anyone really against just making them have the same duration/cooldown too?
If they are going to be the same in strength, cooldown and uptimes need to be equal as well. So nope, not against it at all.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7564
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:13:00 -
[324] - Quote
Greiv Rabbah wrote:things
I may be mildly annoyed with people trying to twist my intent right now. If that's not the intent, I apologize. I'm getting entirely too used to counterpoints being based on my words being used completely out of context.
Believe it or not almost none of my assertions about people's attitude are intended to be anything other than general.
If someone is being a douche it applies to them. If you are engaging in point/counterpoint and bringing something it does not.
I'm not calling you an idiot for disagreeing. I have a different perspective. You think area denial is better handle one way. That's fine. But why are we not allowing for other things?
You stated that removing the turn speed penalty was a bad move. If the sentinel was effective at long range and intended to get it's skull ripped off by anyone getting In close? Seems like balance to me.
However giving a sentinel a weapon that only works at point blank with a turn rate that allows anyone to circle around and kill you means sentinels are there to get farmed for warpoints. This is what happened before.
Rather than making sents ranged, the turn speed was removed and I facepalmed because what we have today was inevitable given the CCP nerf/buff cycle.
While the turn speed penalty was in effect, heavies utilized rifles to overcome the limitation. Because you can turn slow as hell all you want. At 60-80m it doesn't matter how fast the scout or assault can move you can kill them via hit point attrition.
That's why I say sentinel suits are better for open area. The raw HP allows you to win attrition combat while allowing weapons that don't require a scout suit to take shots at you.
Now this next point, which I also do not directly attribute to you, was that the devs removed the turn speed because popular opinion deemed that it was unfair for sentinels to be able to kill people at any significant range.
My problem is not any one person's ideas on a nerf. In fact even though I firmly disagree that it is the solution, is well thought out and grounded in the functional reality of the game.
My worry is that the people who want certain combinations of nerfs gaining traction. It's like what happened with the Minscout recently. One PARTICULAR nerf wasn't the killer. It was the combination.
And it wasn't JUST the sentinels. The assaults and logis were up in arms too because they were getting pasted by either HMGs or Shotty/NK from both directions.
Just because scouts were obnoxious did not mean that heavies weren't. That was about when I changed my tune about the HMG. I realized it would shift right back to Sentinel514 the instant scouts were nerfed.
Don't mistake me attacking your assertions with me attacking YOU. Just because I (wildly) disagree with you does NOT mean I automatically assume you are an idiot or 100%wrong.
My problem is the assertion that sentinels are supposed to be CQC. I don't remember or care if it is YOUR assertion. The fact that if we simply delete the HMG nothing will change because we'll immediately swap to rifles is real. It won't change the attrition war hellgrind meta in CQC vs. Fatties at all.
I firmly believe that if we want fatties to be balanced we need to make the optimal activity something other than turtling up in tight spaces with a logi indulging in a weird bromance.
I dunno how else to say it. The precedent is there, the logic is there, it's happened before.
But the rallying cry of the masses is "heavies are CQC. End. Stop."
Why is that? It only makes sense if they're trying to convince the devs that this nerf, then this one... then that...
Individually the nerfs are innocuous. Together they make the heavies into easy warpoint batteries. Counters that are dependent on the enemy to be a moron aren't counters. It wasn't with tanks, nor was it with scouts, nor now with HMGS. It'll never be a counter.
AV
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1027
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:22:00 -
[325] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:anaboop wrote:@rat , im still awaiting reasoning or explaination on the missiles changes. Missiles were the reason madrugars are the rarest thing on the field. So their DPS was cut in half. Missiles can do 3700 DPS easily. That's not balanced against anything. Yes, the DPS was excessive, and I agree with that nerf. I don't agree with ANY of the other ones though. Reload speed should have actually had a buff to compensate for rails getting a larger magazine, total ammo increased instead of decreased.... I listed all of my reasons earlier. Missiles will be completely irrelevant to the rail after Echo. The reload change seemed to go in the wrong direction. I outlined it before but I think less damage per magazine, faster reload, is the best way to make the Missiles perform better without being so reliant on the "Kill in 1 salvo" mechanic. I didn't originally suggest this in the new HAV thread because I'm not an expert on HAVs, but would returning the large missile turret to it's pre-1.7 operation mode (4 shot salvos) with a hybrid AV-AI functionality be preferable to the current suggestion?
By the way, did anyone so far agree with the size of the AScR buff? |
HOLY PERFECTION
UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E
55
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:24:00 -
[326] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Mostly excited for the patch as it has potential..
Have same concerns as a few others.
Scrambler buff... Ok so no one in thier right mind runs shield fits as Armor>Shields... so lets buff the anti shield gun that no one is using since no one runs shields...
Instead of 3 people running shields on the server there will be around 1... the problem is using the scrambler sucks against armor and EVERYONE IS RUNNING ARMOR... balance shields first then look at the scrambler rifle.
Yo Rattati armor hardeners needed some love but going from 50% worse than shield hardeners to 50% better is swaying the pendulum pretty far in the direction of armor tanks. Infantry is already dominated by armor.. we want tanks doing the same thing?
That duration is going to make running Incubus and armor HAVS the only option... 30% makes far more sense given how long they last. Shield tanks have like 900 armor that spells death to any weapon while armor tanks have like 1200 shields that is used as a buffer...
while the regulators are a good start, without shield boosters being viable there are going to be A LOT of armor tanks.
Myofibrils + RE spam is going to get old fast Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity. Says the guy who bases everything off numbers while knowing nothing about his own game meta. yeah totally I think what their doing to tanks is mostly ok. The only thing that i disagree with is the increased heat build up. But i assume the heat thinges would take care of that. Thatk you CCP, finally a hav buff. :)
I WILL WIN... DESTINY
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Kuruld Sengar
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION
243
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:28:00 -
[327] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Mostly excited for the patch as it has potential..
Have same concerns as a few others.
Scrambler buff... Ok so no one in thier right mind runs shield fits as Armor>Shields... so lets buff the anti shield gun that no one is using since no one runs shields...
Instead of 3 people running shields on the server there will be around 1... the problem is using the scrambler sucks against armor and EVERYONE IS RUNNING ARMOR... balance shields first then look at the scrambler rifle.
Yo Rattati armor hardeners needed some love but going from 50% worse than shield hardeners to 50% better is swaying the pendulum pretty far in the direction of armor tanks. Infantry is already dominated by armor.. we want tanks doing the same thing?
That duration is going to make running Incubus and armor HAVS the only option... 30% makes far more sense given how long they last. Shield tanks have like 900 armor that spells death to any weapon while armor tanks have like 1200 shields that is used as a buffer...
while the regulators are a good start, without shield boosters being viable there are going to be A LOT of armor tanks.
Myofibrils + RE spam is going to get old fast Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity. Says the guy who bases everything off numbers while knowing nothing about his own game meta. Bad blueberry. Bad. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
910
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:38:00 -
[328] - Quote
cal assault is tricky. either stay in cover and do a regen fit, or brick the shields. the lower regen means youll have long recovery times, but the extra hp is often the difference between having shields left after a scr charged shot or being dead.
ive run every cal assault shield fit possible. they all require a different style of play. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
837
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Posted - 2015.03.06 16:59:00 -
[329] - Quote
When 2 competent squads colide with each other on ambush the game gets stale till one squad earns a OB. Im sure alot of players experienced this on the large bridge with alot of installations on it. One side manages to get uplinks on the bridge and the other side camps on the hill.
Now competent squad A has amarr assaults with lasers to keep firing at competent squad B which is shield tanked and is using rail rifles. Squad A will get kills more frequently aswell generating WP by taking damage which can be repaired with the help of logis. Squad B has no way to keep up with squad A in terms of WP generation. What follows is that squad A will get a orbital strike, drop it on squad B and then overruns the opposition in a all out assault.
The assault cannot be stopped once in motion due to the ambush spawn mechanic. Similar things can be seen on the gallente research facility by playing domination. if you are loosing get some armor plated sentinels, let them take damage to repair, earn OB, assault the objective and barricade yourself in there with ++bertanked heavys and repping logis. Shields are not competetive as long the logistic gap is not closed.
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
5196
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Posted - 2015.03.06 17:03:00 -
[330] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Mostly excited for the patch as it has potential..
Have same concerns as a few others.
Scrambler buff... Ok so no one in thier right mind runs shield fits as Armor>Shields... so lets buff the anti shield gun that no one is using since no one runs shields...
Instead of 3 people running shields on the server there will be around 1... the problem is using the scrambler sucks against armor and EVERYONE IS RUNNING ARMOR... balance shields first then look at the scrambler rifle.
Yo Rattati armor hardeners needed some love but going from 50% worse than shield hardeners to 50% better is swaying the pendulum pretty far in the direction of armor tanks. Infantry is already dominated by armor.. we want tanks doing the same thing?
That duration is going to make running Incubus and armor HAVS the only option... 30% makes far more sense given how long they last. Shield tanks have like 900 armor that spells death to any weapon while armor tanks have like 1200 shields that is used as a buffer...
while the regulators are a good start, without shield boosters being viable there are going to be A LOT of armor tanks.
Myofibrils + RE spam is going to get old fast Dropsuit Shield and Armor tanking are currently at pretty good parity. Says the guy who bases everything off numbers while knowing nothing about his own game meta. yeah totally
I'm going to leave the insults out of this one, but I would like you to reflect on something with the ASCR for a moment.
This weapon will...
- Dominate at range, especially with phantom recoil
- Dominate in CQC due to its hipfire spread helping the AA mechanics.
- Pretty much automatically win against all shield based opponents
- Stand above other armor based opponents
- Have heat as rarely ever a factor, even less so with amarr assault bonus.
I know you were trying to get this weapon going, but this is going to introduce more problems than it will solve. What you could have done was shift its profile numbers down by 5 make it a little more well-rounded, and then given it a slight damage increase of about 5%. That would have kept it at about the same proficiency against shield opponents as it is now, and made it at least viable against armor based opponents.
But instead, now it's just going to be an overkill machine on shields and really really good against armor. This is not ideal.
If you insist on making this the rifle of absolute death and destruction that stands above all others, then you're going to need to increase the amount of heat it generates. Possibly to the point of it being nearly unviable outside of the Amarr Assault.
Usually banned for being too awesome.
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