CCP Rattati

The sniper rifle without insane damage only has one thing going for it.

That's range.

I've said this way too many times, and hate that you've failed to reply properly or take notice.


Sniper Rifles DO NOT 1 shot any player.
[Rail Tanks / Forge Guns do!]

Sniper Rifles DO NOT kill vehicles.
[Rail Tanks / Forge Guns do!]


Why then would you even consider balancing it's range to be remotely close to these? (350m)

You put forth that a sniper is able to cover an objective from too far away. That's kind of the point.

When it comes to killing players, stopping hacks, the only thing that matters is the number of shots required to kill someone.

Snipers won't feel a 10-20% damage increase. Not enough. Why? It's not a rapid fire weapon where 30 damage matters.

It's an alpha strike weapon, where you either kill them or you don't.

In the case that you don't kill them further shots are made more difficult, as they flail about trying to hide / recover.

This is why it takes a Thale's to be effective in Planetary Conquest. with 55% damage over the standard variant it actually lowers

the number of shots required to kill someone, where as again 30-100 damage just won't make any noticeable difference.

(headshots are a luxury in PC by the way, good players never stop moving)


Reducing Range will favor the red line sniper. He's still going to be there, and you know it.

Any aggressive forward snipers will still be getting hit (and harder now) by the red line sniper just looking for a handful of kills.

The reward for a boring game of red line sniping will be effectively countering "proper snipers" taking forward positions.

They'll be able to skirt the engagement at will with a mountain to their backs and cover all around. Where as the forward sniper

is likely in a fixed position with limited cover. Meaning.. the red line sniper can simply back up a few meters for safety instead of

having to even run to cover when engaging enemy snipers. They dictate the terms of engagement. How fun.


Heavies being able to hack points, cloaked scouts being able to hack a point in a couple of seconds. An assault with 1000hp dancing around in circles hacking a point. How as a sniper am I supposed to be effective? The last time I checked the sky was still blue, this isn't changing overnight. Range Reduction is bullshit.


Go ahead, balance the gun around bad players, and a flawed premise.

I ******* dare you.

Getting a bit carried away there, sorry. I'll talk to some people and submit something.

*sigh*

I really liked my "Rusty Spear" and now you're trying to give me a "Sharp Shortsword" whilst labeling it a "Spear"

Aww gabby that's sweet +1

Rattati make sure Thales don't have massive range rendering them invulnerable to counter sniping.
Not that it's easy to countersnipe a 1300 hp suit

Right, tried to not forum rage, but seeing what the CPM and rattati have to say about dropship vs swarms....

Whats the purpose behind reducing the small rail rate of fire? They fire pretty slow already, and only have any decent ROF for thos specced into an incubus (several million SP and half a million isk later) so why the nerf?

Swarms, whats the final end game? We all know the stats about them vs dropships by heart, (175 M lock, 400 m range generally 3 hits and your done for).

The problem with buffing regular dropships and nerfing small rails at the same time makes it harder (i cannot say by how much till we get some numbers) to deal with suicide "pilots". Buffing swarms so that ADS pilots will not be able to get away (i know imagine infantry getting away from a firefight at 100 meters blasphemy) means regular ships will almost certainly never getaway, tank be damned.

There will alway be "debate" between average guys with a 50,000 isk swarm launcher and guys in 400,000 isk plus dropships, because everybody wants the kill, not area denial, and certainly not more warpoints. And nobody is willing to admit that there are players that are better than they. Dropships are so specialist they needed an entire training series (which helped to get judge elected to the CPM).

Pilots having a good KDR in terms of what? if I go 10 to 1 that 1 is worth three games of grind. Any decent vehicle pilot should not have ADV infantry type of KDR because whats the point of using a very expensive asset if you cannot keep it alive. Keeping it alive requires skill, especially since everything you fight has longer range and more DPS.

I offer to take any member of the CPM, dev, or any doubter in the air for a full day of gaming. You pay for the ADS i call one in (so you dont have to invest any SP for a lvl 3 inc) with turret of choice and you tell me how OP dropships are.

Please keep the SCR RoF above 500. Below 600 is fine, but please stay out of the 4XX range. I'll explain why later.

It's funny you single out the "50,000 isk swarm launcher".
Yet you mention the whole dropship.

That suit can't escape from you,you can however escape from him.

You have 3x his ammo and damage easily,in an endurance battle you'd win.

You can (possibly) 1-2 shot his suit,which may be Pro,costing him possibly 100k minimal.
Your main weapon doesn't put you at an overwhelming disadvantage vs other vehicles like swarms do for infantry vs infantry.

And if you're using missiles you can spam them very innacurately to great effect,while the swarm launcher makes you defenseless and requires directly looking at a target to lock on.

And you can easily kill groups of infantry with a few missiles,yet infantry must use several salvoes to temporarily drive you off.

You can easily terminate groups of infantry with 1 pilot using 1 ADS.
You CANNOT easily terminate 1 ADS using 1 infantry AV.

Costs equal possible damage caused,they are perfectly acceptable.

It's been a busy few weeks for us newbies on the CPM but I'd like to echo what Rattati said and say that it has been a wonderfully collaborative period between the CPM members and CCP.

I'd like pass on special thanks to CCP Logibro who has made the transition period pain free and allowed us to hit the ground running and for answering our questions about Delta as quickly as possible.

As a Gallante user I'm particularly looking forward to your imput on the Ion Pistol, AR and Plasma Cannon tweaks and I'm also very happy with the proposed changes to the NPE.

The Hotfix process has been so far a big boost to the game and Delta will hopefully give it more momentum to build on.

Keep your feedback coming.

No nerf needed for the Scrambler rifle. Heat up per shot, and you have the fix.

How bout we look into taking armor away from scouts! That would make them scouts again. Keep the cloak, dampening, precision, and speed. Keep the two equipment slots, and let them stack shields only. this can fix our problem of the "assault scout" easy. They will be scouts again day one. Still just as dangerous, but more in their role.

Getting a bit carried away there, sorry. I'll talk to some people and submit something.

*sigh*

I really liked my "Rusty Spear" and now you're trying to give me a "Sharp Shortsword" whilst labeling it a "Spear"

Do you just hate Incubus pilots, is that it?

Could you possibly make things easier for AV?

Lmfao, this game.

Agreed. Please please please don't go overboard. There's a way to prevent modded controllers without punishing those with speedy trigger fingers.

Redzone sniping should be removed from the game by whatever means necessary. If that means reducing the range of sniper rifles that's what needs to happen. We cant--and you shouldn't--be ok with redzone sniping being an option. In fact I think there should be a death timer in friendly redzone starting 1 min after the match starts. That would eliminate rubber banding and redzone sniping. That way sniper rifles can keep their range but snipers would be forced to set up where they can be gotten to.

Unless the sniper rifle was reduced to 200m, you will still have Red Line Snipers.. doing the same thing they've always done. And 200m is not acceptable.

Symbioticforks is right , with some of the maps EVEN with 200m range you will still have redline snipers and all other snipers will suffer. You will have made the role unplayable for everyone EXCEPT for the ones you are trying to counter.

We can still have cloaked scouts running a cheaps#%t tactic and thats ok because we "dont want to remove content", but a legitimate role that has been in since day 1 is about to be nerfed into the ground ?

I play as a sniper, use a forgegun or run a scrambler rifle fit, now it looks like all three are about to be nerfed, lol ! I really dont think I will stick around much after Delta hits if these changes are made.

Symbioticforks is right , with some of the maps EVEN with 200m range you will still have redline snipers and all other snipers will suffer. You will have made the role unplayable for everyone EXCEPT for the ones you are trying to counter.

We can still have cloaked scouts running a cheaps#%t tactic and thats ok because we "dont want to remove content", but a legitimate role that has been in since day 1 is about to be nerfed into the ground ?

I play as a sniper, use a forgegun or run a scrambler rifle fit, now it looks like all three are about to be nerfed, lol ! I really dont think I will stick around much after Delta hits if these changes are made.

Has the been any further discussion on adding to vehicle enter/exit times (to eliminate instant teleporting into and out of a vehicle)?

Someone else (sorry, don't remember who) suggested borrowing a weapon reload animation as a placeholder.

Thoughts?