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This is how bad the Assault Rifle is

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:55:00 - [1] - Quote I have level 1 combat rifle, not even ammo or reload, just the basic combat rifle. And I might as well use it instead of a GEK. The ammo will probably last about as much time on my logi as my level 2 or 3 (I think) AR ammo, and I can pretty much guarantee it's more powerful. Hell I bet the RS-90 does more DPS than the Duvolle, but it'll be a while before I consider skilling into the CR. Still gotta get some use out of my Thales and such. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4417	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:56:00 - [2] - Quote Let's just say it instead of doing comparisons. The CR is OP. The AR is the result of requested nerf by the community. Go figure. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:06:00 - [3] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Let's just say it instead of doing comparisons. The CR is OP. The AR is the result of requested nerf by the community. Go figure. Just another thing on the list of what won't be fixed before CCP abandons Dust permanently. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 672	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:10:00 - [4] - Quote The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4419	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:12:00 - [5] - Quote I would say the damage is pretty high. Once I get hit by a CR, I really don't have much time to react. Reminds me of how the RR was. No other weapon can knock down a heavy faster than a CR. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9675	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:13:00 - [6] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. Wouldn't call it a solid weapon. I rather use an SMG than an AR, I'm serious. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 11	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:18:00 - [7] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. i would figure the assault rifle, combat rifle, rail rifle, and scrambler rifle should be balanced based on range and rate of fire,where the AR and CR would be somewhat close in damage per bullet but relatively low due to high rate of fire, while doing its best close to mid range. the rail rifle and scrambler rifle would have higher damage per shot, but low rate of fire and its best damage is out at mid range, while at close range the damage is a bit lower. basically i think the rail rifle and scrambler are made to try and keep people away, try to push them back, while the assault rifle and combat rifle are the in your face bruisers of the bunch
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4419	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:19:00 - [8] - Quote so basically RR went the way of the Tac AR... Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9675	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:21:00 - [9] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. i would figure the assault rifle, combat rifle, rail rifle, and scrambler rifle should be balanced based on range and rate of fire,where the AR and CR would be somewhat close in damage per bullet but relatively low due to high rate of fire, while doing its best close to mid range. the rail rifle and scrambler rifle would have higher damage per shot, but low rate of fire and its best damage is out at mid range, while at close range the damage is a bit lower. basically i think the rail rifle and scrambler are made to try and keep people away, try to push them back, while the assault rifle and combat rifle are the in your face bruisers of the bunch Yes, but Combat Rifle is too much of a bruiser while AR is too little of a bruiser. CR does ridiculous amounts of damage while AR does too little. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 11	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:21:00 - [10] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: so basically RR went the way of the Tac AR... the RR is the old TAC AR the CR the the burst AR and the SCR is the old Breach AR i may have the tac and the breach swapped... the one that was single shot is now the scr and the one with low rof is now the rr

Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 11	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:22:00 - [11] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. i would figure the assault rifle, combat rifle, rail rifle, and scrambler rifle should be balanced based on range and rate of fire,where the AR and CR would be somewhat close in damage per bullet but relatively low due to high rate of fire, while doing its best close to mid range. the rail rifle and scrambler rifle would have higher damage per shot, but low rate of fire and its best damage is out at mid range, while at close range the damage is a bit lower. basically i think the rail rifle and scrambler are made to try and keep people away, try to push them back, while the assault rifle and combat rifle are the in your face bruisers of the bunch Yes, but Combat Rifle is too much of a bruiser while AR is too little of a bruiser. CR does ridiculous amounts of damage while AR does too little. of course, rebalancing of all 4 is needed in my opinion
DozersMouse XIII Inner.Hell 789	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:24:00 - [12] - Quote I can still do good with AR the problem is I'm using a duvolle don't harm the hamsters
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9675	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:29:00 - [13] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. i would figure the assault rifle, combat rifle, rail rifle, and scrambler rifle should be balanced based on range and rate of fire,where the AR and CR would be somewhat close in damage per bullet but relatively low due to high rate of fire, while doing its best close to mid range. the rail rifle and scrambler rifle would have higher damage per shot, but low rate of fire and its best damage is out at mid range, while at close range the damage is a bit lower. basically i think the rail rifle and scrambler are made to try and keep people away, try to push them back, while the assault rifle and combat rifle are the in your face bruisers of the bunch Yes, but Combat Rifle is too much of a bruiser while AR is too little of a bruiser. CR does ridiculous amounts of damage while AR does too little. of course, rebalancing of all 4 is needed in my opinion I think RR vs SCR is fine. They have similar range, but the SCR can do MUCH more damage, has better ammo economy and has faster reload at the cost of being semi auto and easily overheat. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
bhold'the brngr ofLIKE Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:34:00 - [14] - Quote maybe this will be the next content were all waiting for
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2945	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:36:00 - [15] - Quote Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:37:00 - [16] - Quote i can't really speak for the ScR or RR, because I don't use them, but I sure do get killed pretty easily by them (even though the RR was just nerfed hard its still good) but the CR definitely needs a small nerf and AR needs a substantial buff i read a thread a while ago that says the CR does more DPS to shields than the AR which is absolutely sad. how do I know the CR needs a nerf? because I have a full proto Amarr Sentinel, which has the highest eHP vs Combat Rifles in this game, and a Minmatar Assault who was also in full proto almost killed me because his clip size was so large. Not sure if it actually out-DPSes the HMG but god damn that was some scary ****. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:39:00 - [17] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. Eh. I get to where I'm not even afraid of it anymore. People who think it's OP don't realize that if you have a logi with proto scans, or if you bring a Gal Logi or Cal Scout in your squad to a PC battle, that cloak is going to get scanned. I really don't think it's as much of an issue as people think it is. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 11	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:45:00 - [18] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. i would figure the assault rifle, combat rifle, rail rifle, and scrambler rifle should be balanced based on range and rate of fire,where the AR and CR would be somewhat close in damage per bullet but relatively low due to high rate of fire, while doing its best close to mid range. the rail rifle and scrambler rifle would have higher damage per shot, but low rate of fire and its best damage is out at mid range, while at close range the damage is a bit lower. basically i think the rail rifle and scrambler are made to try and keep people away, try to push them back, while the assault rifle and combat rifle are the in your face bruisers of the bunch Yes, but Combat Rifle is too much of a bruiser while AR is too little of a bruiser. CR does ridiculous amounts of damage while AR does too little. of course, rebalancing of all 4 is needed in my opinion I think RR vs SCR is fine. They have similar range, but the SCR can do MUCH more damage, has better ammo economy and has faster reload at the cost of being semi auto and easily overheat. honestly, while i adore the SCR (i lvl 5'd the crap out of it) i think its a bit too strong, even with out a charge. i can out rof a rr with a scr very easily, (semi auto is my ideal kind of gun) so the scr is kinda tough to balance in my eyes, while for some it might be good where it is( and i have no problems with that), i have an easy time applying huge amounts of dps in short order
PAXTON HAILFIRE Expert Intervention Caldari State 57	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:46:00 - [19] - Quote I have the AR maxed out and rarely use it over the RR, CR, and SCR all at lvl 3 prof. I'm a far better shot with the AR, but cant outrange the other 3. I only use the AR in cqb maps. Even then, the other 3 can own your ass. Better off going fat man and charging in. When you get someone in the ARs sweet zone, its pretty awesome, but its a small zone. For me, anyway. Better off running the other 3 with an smg. Makes me QQ I wasted all that sp. Thanks CCP! Its why I never purchase boosters. Why waste money on something that will get nerfed to nearly useless in 4 months or less. Add swarm launchers, sniper rifles, and faylocks to stupid nerfs as lack of testing by ccp. Found REs to be a kick in the pants. Dead man trigger nerfed. Par for the course. I should have skilled tanks and **** suits from day 1. I stayed away from cloaking but I was certain that would sponge bobbed into uselessness. Sorry, makes me wonder if these clowns play their own game. I think they follow me around and say, "Hailfire killed more than he died in a battle, better nerf that **."
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:03:00 - [20] - Quote PAXTON HAILFIRE wrote: I have the AR maxed out and rarely use it over the RR, CR, and SCR all at lvl 3 prof. I'm a far better shot with the AR, but cant outrange the other 3. I only use the AR in cqb maps. Even then, the other 3 can own your ass. Better off going fat man and charging in. When you get someone in the ARs sweet zone, its pretty awesome, but its a small zone. For me, anyway. Better off running the other 3 with an smg. Makes me QQ I wasted all that sp. Thanks CCP! Its why I never purchase boosters. Why waste money on something that will get nerfed to nearly useless in 4 months or less. Add swarm launchers, sniper rifles (50 cal that takes 5 shots to kill a heavy), and faylocks to stupid nerfs as lack of testing by ccp. Found REs to be a kick in the pants. Dead man trigger nerfed. Par for the course. I should have skilled tanks and fatboy suits from day 1. I stayed away from cloaking as I was certain that would get sponge bobbed into uselessness. Sorry, makes me wonder if these clowns play their own game. I think they follow me around and say, "Hailfire killed more than he died in a battle, better nerf that ****." Don't get me wrong, I know what you're talking about. I've pretty much used the Assault Rifle for the past 8 months until 1.8 came, and allowed me to respec into heavy. I'm just now getting back into it because I've finished with the heavy weapons tree and have started specing into a Logi to use the AR again. But I really don't see where you don't feel the massive nerf the AR has gotten since 1.7, and their "rebalance" for 1.8 hasn't really changed much. I know what you're talking about, that there's a niche for the AR at medium range, but honestly that isn't going to save you from someone who knows what they're doing with a Combat Rifle, especially if you don't get the element of surprise on them. The way the weapon handles just does not give you any advantage over raw DPS. To be honest with you I'd do better at short to medium range with an assault forge gun than with an AR. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++

PAXTON HAILFIRE Expert Intervention Caldari State 60	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:33:00 - [21] - Quote No, I think it was killed after 1.7. I'm not a good enough player to get in that sweet zone. It happens by accident. But, I can melt a heavy with a duvolle if I'm in it. Thats a pro weapon. GEK, blah. Rather run a standard RR. The ARs niche is too tight. I run heavy now, or Commando with an SCR, CR assault, or RR combo of some sort. ARs, I run because I have like a hundred sitting on a shelf. I kill more with REs on my logi than with my AR. Use it to bait em in, lol. I think what you missed is I can aim the AR. I'm personnaly not as good with a CR.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 617	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:36:00 - [22] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. LOL really? Still butthurt about cloaks? Get gud scrub.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:42:00 - [23] - Quote PAXTON HAILFIRE wrote: No, I think it was killed after 1.7. I'm not a good enough player to get in that sweet zone. It happens by accident. But, I can melt a heavy with a duvolle if I'm in it. Thats a pro weapon. GEK, blah. Rather run a standard RR. The ARs niche is too tight. I run heavy now, or Commando with an SCR, CR assault, or RR combo of some sort. ARs, I run because I have like a hundred sitting on a shelf. I kill more with REs on my logi than with my AR. Use it to bait em in, lol. I think what you missed is I can aim the AR. I'm personnaly not as good with a CR. that's the thing, i'm using it on a cheap adv logi WP farming fit so it has to be a GEK (or basic CR), because I can only run full proto with LP gear right now I think I know what you're talking about now. The hipfire on the combat rifle's harder to use at range than the assault rifle, and the iron sight is different too GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1205	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:20:00 - [24] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Let's just say it instead of doing comparisons. The CR is OP. The AR is the result of requested nerf by the community. Go figure. No one was asking for the AR to be nerfed after the CR and RR were released. But CCP just had to put the final nail in the coffin.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1205	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:26:00 - [25] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: how do I know the CR needs a nerf? because I have a full proto Amarr Sentinel, which has the highest eHP vs Combat Rifles in this game, and a Minmatar Assault who was also in full proto almost killed me because his clip size was so large. Not sure if it actually out-DPSes the HMG but god damn that was some scary ****. Confirming that any weapon that almost kills someone is OP.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:28:00 - [26] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: how do I know the CR needs a nerf? because I have a full proto Amarr Sentinel, which has the highest eHP vs Combat Rifles in this game, and a Minmatar Assault who was also in full proto almost killed me because his clip size was so large. Not sure if it actually out-DPSes the HMG but god damn that was some scary ****. Confirming that any weapon that almost kills someone is OP. What was scary, I had to reload and he didn't GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13272	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:55:00 - [27] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: so basically RR went the way of the Tac AR... ... No. No it didn't. Happy Violentime wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. LOL really? Still butthurt about cloaks? Get gud scrub. If you feel that being able to fire a shotgun before you've even decloaked is fine, you are relying on a crutch. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 1489	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:55:00 - [28] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: so basically RR went the way of the Tac AR... DO. NOT. DISRESPECT. THE. GLU-5 TACTICAL ASSAULT RIFLE. Rail Rifle Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft. Sucks compared to the GLU-5. Annoying as hell to use and sounds worse. Jack-Of-All-Trades, GJR Approved Favorite Suits Weapons- GLU-5, SCR, SCP, BP, HMG, Turtle, Tux, CalLogi, CalAssault
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 40	Posted - 2014.05.15 09:05:00 - [29] - Quote i never liked the tactical AR. or the breach for that matter GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2014.05.15 09:14:00 - [30] - Quote AR and all variants now are underpowered to CR. Players are using assault CR. Assault RR and Assault scrambler, but nobody is using breach, burst or tactical AR, because they are useless. The standard AR is a decent weapon but it is behind the CR and other rifles. Now Gallente sucks with the nerf of the scanners too.

Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2014.05.15 09:19:00 - [31] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. LOL really? Still butthurt about cloaks? Get gud scrub. it is not a cloak. it is and invisibility mod. It was a mistake. it should just redice the scan profile and nothing more. The scouts must be aware and not invisible.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1206	Posted - 2014.05.15 09:36:00 - [32] - Quote Cardio Therapy wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. LOL really? Still butthurt about cloaks? Get gud scrub. it is not a cloak. it is and invisibility mod. It was a mistake. it should just redice the scan profile and nothing more. The scouts must be aware and not invisible. It should work like this: Current level of visual cloaking beyond 50 metres No visual cloaking within 50 metres, just the profile reduction (Doesn't have to be a hard change, could fade in/out between 40 and 60 metres, though maybe that is too resource intensive) Rationale: 1. The cloak reduces the annoyance from tanks, ADS, stationary turrets, and snipers for run-and-gun infantry. They are mostly longer range (50 metres plus) threats 2. Would remove the stupid issue with invisible (on some maps) shotgunners instaglibing 3. In terms of a 'technical explanation', it could easily be that every suit and vehicle carries cloak decoding equipment with a limited range
Ahkhomi Cypher Team Bad Decisions 42	Posted - 2014.05.15 11:11:00 - [33] - Quote I got AR operation,ammo,proficiency, reload lvl 5 sharpshooter lvl 3 My CRs still out perform my ARs Inb4 QQ more you "i want the AR to be king again fakkit" Made my toon a long time ago played for like 2 weeks and quit. Came back and put all my passive sp into the AR. Bad decision.
Orenji Jiji 445	Posted - 2014.05.15 12:31:00 - [34] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Cardio Therapy wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. LOL really? Still butthurt about cloaks? Get gud scrub. it is not a cloak. it is and invisibility mod. It was a mistake. it should just redice the scan profile and nothing more. The scouts must be aware and not invisible. It should work like this: Current level of visual cloaking beyond 50 metres No visual cloaking within 50 metres, just the profile reduction (Doesn't have to be a hard change, could fade in/out between 40 and 60 metres, though maybe that is too resource intensive) Rationale: 1. The cloak reduces the annoyance from tanks, ADS, stationary turrets, and snipers for run-and-gun infantry. They are mostly longer range (50 metres plus) threats 2. Would remove the stupid issue with invisible (on some maps) shotgunners instaglibing 3. In terms of a 'technical explanation', it could easily be that every suit and vehicle carries cloak decoding equipment with a limited range And why not cloak disruptor equipment that disables cloak in 50m range? You activate -- all cloaks entering 50m radius get drained to 0 immediately as long it's ON -- same battery settings as cloaks. I'm running 200hp infiltrator scout (no-shotty, no-re's) and that would satisfy me -- something you have counters something I have and doesn't make it useless -- I often run past reds to get to my objective. :) Also CR damage is not a problem. Stun locking is. I don't understand why am I suddenly paraplegic when hit from any f-ing direction. Applies to other weapons as well. I liked this game.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9690	Posted - 2014.05.15 13:30:00 - [35] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: honestly, while i adore the SCR (i lvl 5'd the crap out of it) i think its a bit too strong, even with out a charge. i can out rof a rr with a scr very easily, (semi auto is my ideal kind of gun) so the scr is kinda tough to balance in my eyes, while for some it might be good where it is( and i have no problems with that), i have an easy time applying huge amounts of dps in short order It has bad sustained damage, and is also weak against high HP targets. So it can only take on max 2-3 people at the same time (3 being militia scrubs), and against heavies you're very likely to overheat before taking them down. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 12	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:12:00 - [36] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: honestly, while i adore the SCR (i lvl 5'd the crap out of it) i think its a bit too strong, even with out a charge. i can out rof a rr with a scr very easily, (semi auto is my ideal kind of gun) so the scr is kinda tough to balance in my eyes, while for some it might be good where it is( and i have no problems with that), i have an easy time applying huge amounts of dps in short order It has bad sustained damage, and is also weak against high HP targets. So it can only take on max 2-3 people at the same time (3 being militia scrubs), and against heavies you're very likely to overheat before taking them down. if you don't pay attention to your heat then yes definitely, but i find bursts of 4-5 with a second of non fire keeps it under control. i've dropped my fair share of sentinels with a standard. plus having high skill with ammar assault really helps. though you are right, against militias you practically vaporise them.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7571	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:35:00 - [37] - Quote We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Corporal Axton Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:37:00 - [38] - Quote I agree the combat rifle needs a nerf. Currently an ACR is probably the worst in my opinion. I can get popped by one too easily at distances, it makes it worse when a commando or scout uses this. Either I can't take him down or the faster cloaking heavy will have the hit detection on his side. The CR is up there, honestly the damage is what bothers me. RoF can stay, drop damage to close of 26-28 per shot, ACR three HP below the given for CR. ACR needs significant lower damage anf properly apply it's use in combat. It's designed for armor, however my Caldari suits are paper targets. I die before I hit the floor. "And when he gets to heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell, 'One more marine reporting sir, I've served my time in hell!'"
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13302	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:39:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. <3 Do be careful with the nerf and buff bats, though. The AR isn't far off being where it needs to be, and although the burst CR is hugely powerful the ACR doesn't need that much toning down. Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 680	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:40:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. This is good news :-) 1) They are not pulling the plug on us just yet. 2) They have a to-do-list on balance ... so maybe they'll fix tanks! PS: Unlocked Combat Rifle Sharpshooter V yesterday; saving up for Proficiency V. Still not mad.

Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3255	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:41:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. Do the ground thing. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13302	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:41:00 - [42] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. Do the ground thing. slaps No, Cody! Don't turn to the dark side! You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 12	Posted - 2014.05.15 14:44:00 - [43] - Quote Corporal Axton wrote: I agree the combat rifle needs a nerf. Currently an ACR is probably the worst in my opinion. I can get popped by one too easily at distances, it makes it worse when a commando or scout uses this. Either I can't take him down or the faster cloaking heavy will have the hit detection on his side. The CR is up there, honestly the damage is what bothers me. RoF can stay, drop damage to close of 26-28 per shot, ACR three HP below the given for CR. ACR needs significant lower damage anf properly apply it's use in combat. It's designed for armor, however my Caldari suits are paper targets. I die before I hit the floor. you know what i would love to see? the odd variants of all rifles(tac ar, assault CR, assault SCR, assault RR, and all the others) i think would be a great excuse for pirate weapons! think about it the assault SCR could be a mix of ammar and gallente tech, meaning that to use it i need skill in both (maybe for proto asault SCR, lvl 5 in SCR and lvl 4 in AR) the tac ar is a mix of caldari and gallente tec, the assault CR same deal and same for the rest. they could have buffed dps to balance requirements of multiple skills to use but be more expensive to buy. make the skill trees more interesting CCP!
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 25	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:02:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. How old is that list ? I wonder because things like marauders tanks (1.0), pilot dropsuit (1.4) and logistic dropship (1.7) were also on a list. (Sorry, I couldn't resist ) Dropship pilot
CoochMaster Flex Contract Hunters 0	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:43:00 - [45] - Quote I just think that the AR needs to be buffed a little bit. In 1.7 it was perfect, it wasn't OP or useless. The AR Is just out classed by the CR and RR.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1082	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:47:00 - [46] - Quote For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 681	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:49:00 - [47] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. And Assault CR variant?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9695	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:51:00 - [48] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: honestly, while i adore the SCR (i lvl 5'd the crap out of it) i think its a bit too strong, even with out a charge. i can out rof a rr with a scr very easily, (semi auto is my ideal kind of gun) so the scr is kinda tough to balance in my eyes, while for some it might be good where it is( and i have no problems with that), i have an easy time applying huge amounts of dps in short order It has bad sustained damage, and is also weak against high HP targets. So it can only take on max 2-3 people at the same time (3 being militia scrubs), and against heavies you're very likely to overheat before taking them down. if you don't pay attention to your heat then yes definitely, but i find bursts of 4-5 with a second of non fire keeps it under control. i've dropped my fair share of sentinels with a standard. plus having high skill with ammar assault really helps. though you are right, against militias you practically vaporise them. You can fire off 18 shots before overheat without Amarr Assault. Just FYI Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9695	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:53:00 - [49] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. I rather they increase the fire rate, or a combination of fire rate and damage. High fire rate is the best for CQC. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3256	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:55:00 - [50] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. Do the ground thing. slaps No, Cody! Don't turn to the dark side! Owwww, but I hate that thing! It turns everyone into mini-heavies! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1082	Posted - 2014.05.15 15:59:00 - [51] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. I rather they increase the fire rate, or a combination of fire rate and damage. High fire rate is the best for CQC. This breaks the Balac's, it's already making the screen shake when firing it. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 99	Posted - 2014.05.15 16:02:00 - [52] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. And Assault CR variant? Which is the actual problem gun, IMO. The ease of use of the ACT makes it the go to gun; CR takes thought and timing (well, a little bit of it) where ACR glares in your direction and melts you. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 892	Posted - 2014.05.15 16:07:00 - [53] - Quote Basic combat rifle dps > duvolle dps it's funny because in eve the hybrid blaster/ar would have a higher damage, firerate, and dps over the equivlant autocannon. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9697	Posted - 2014.05.15 16:13:00 - [54] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. I rather they increase the fire rate, or a combination of fire rate and damage. High fire rate is the best for CQC. This breaks the Balac's, it's already making the screen shake when firing it. Then reduce the screen shake? It's obviously possible considering the ACR is super steady with it's 1200RPM. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1082	Posted - 2014.05.15 16:20:00 - [55] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. And Assault CR variant? Considering the clip size and its low damage per shot (dps still similar to AR), the AR is better to use. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1212	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:00:00 - [56] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. And Assault CR variant? Which is the actual problem gun, IMO. The ease of use of the ACT makes it the go to gun; CR takes thought and timing (well, a little bit of it) where ACR glares in your direction and melts you. 'Thought and timing'=spam R1. And you can definitely spam the CR a lot more than you can the ACR as the latter empties the clip so quickly. Already you cannot take out a proto Ama/Gal heavy in one clip of ACR. Instead of just charging in like you can with CR you need to either open with a grenade or plan for a reload midway through. It's a weapon that requires actual thought and timing IMO.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2503	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:19:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. so they will flaylock the CR then probably. the term toned down was used when the adjective flaylocked was invented. prove me wrong once CCP -.-
Jenova Rhapsodos Fatal Absolution 461	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:23:00 - [58] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. The Scrambler Rifle is dead, long live the Scrambler Rifle!
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 12	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:26:00 - [59] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: honestly, while i adore the SCR (i lvl 5'd the crap out of it) i think its a bit too strong, even with out a charge. i can out rof a rr with a scr very easily, (semi auto is my ideal kind of gun) so the scr is kinda tough to balance in my eyes, while for some it might be good where it is( and i have no problems with that), i have an easy time applying huge amounts of dps in short order It has bad sustained damage, and is also weak against high HP targets. So it can only take on max 2-3 people at the same time (3 being militia scrubs), and against heavies you're very likely to overheat before taking them down. if you don't pay attention to your heat then yes definitely, but i find bursts of 4-5 with a second of non fire keeps it under control. i've dropped my fair share of sentinels with a standard. plus having high skill with ammar assault really helps. though you are right, against militias you practically vaporise them. You can fire off 18 shots before overheat without Amarr Assault. Just FYI yeah but with how fast i shoot it, the recoil becomes a bastard to handle

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7583	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:29:00 - [60] - Quote Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)


Scheherazade VII SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 509	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:31:00 - [61] - Quote of course the combat rifle is OP that's why when you face corps like outer heaven every single one of them is in proto scout armour tanked proto combat rifle they strafe and move so ******* fast you can't even hit them. I've no idea why I still use the CRD or CRW. it's a shame how pretty much every known corp just spams armour tanked proto scouts with proto CR. it's like people can't actually play the game unless they have the most OP gear possible. why play a game with so much diversity if all youre going to do is use the same thing? do these corps have such little faith in their skill that they constantly have to switch to the FOTM? Permanent Beta Tester \|\| MAG Vet, SVER Scrub For Life
Funkmaster Whale Ancient Exiles. 2255	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:39:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. It's really hard to put a strict classification on them because, like you mentioned, they do kind of overlap each other regardless of what the guns' stats tell you. If I had to put it into strict terms, I would classify ScR and RR as more long-range engagement while CR and AR as short-range engagement. Now, the ScR and RR still certainly have awesome CQC potential so it doesn't really stand entirely true. That's not really an issue though, since a weapon shouldn't be completely inadequate outside of its "intended" role. The bigger issue is the fact that you have guns like the AR that's completely inadequate in almost every way compared to its counterpart the CR. Simply put, the AR should by-far be the best CQC brawler rifle. It should sit just under the HMG as far as something you don't want to turn the corner to see. I've mentioned this before in other threads, the reason the CR is so good is not just its DPS, it's the damage profile. The -5% / +10% shield / armor is probably the best damage profile in the game when you consider the meta. Usually you don't see shield values higher than ~500 unless you're encountering a Sentinel. You DO usually encounter very high armor values that are >500. What this translates to is the CR dishing out really good DPS against shields and then incredible DPS vs armor. The AR suffers from this in that it can tear through shields, yeah, but it really lacks in getting through armor. Considering the influx of Heavies in 1.8, having a rifle that can't take down a Heavy makes it all but useless in my eyes. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 682	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:40:00 - [63] - Quote Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. IWS says the stunlock issue is "being looked into" and (oddly) "it isn't a bug". Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2089315#post2089315 It certainly seems that the higher the RoF, the more a weapon benefits from this ... non-bug. * Glares at HMG * * Polishes CR *
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2910	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:41:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. The role would be 'Assault Rifle'. They should overlap each other shouldn't they? In this case... I would say look at any modern warfare style shooter for inspiration. In COD/BF you are pretty much shooting the exact same guns, except they feel fairly different and have quite different styles while overlapping and always being an assault rifle. You just need to balance strengths vs weaknesses and then tweak little bits here and there until its balanced. Rail: Long Range Low RoF Mid-Low DPS High DPC Combat Rifle: Mid Range High RoF Mid DPS (currently the DPS of this weapon is absurdly high) Low DPC Scrambler Rifle (Pulse Laser Rifle in reality... they don't scramble anything) Mid Range Mid 'Averaged' RoF which High burst Mid-High DPS High DPC Suffers significant overheat issues Assault Rifle (Plasma Rifle) Low Range Mid-High RoF High DPS Mid-High DPC These are the 'styles' that each has tried to tend towards - however... they haven't ever been truly balanced (although close to balanced in some ways while suffering gross imbalance in other ways. The only factor I would personally want to add is overheat to plasma and rail weaponry. Pretty much as an analogue to capacitor usage in eve. However... in EVE each turret has ammo types which can help shatter some of these rigid 'roles' and bring more customization into the game.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 682	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:04:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Assault Rifle * Unrivaled in Close Quarter Engagements * Excellent hipfire accuracy * Rapid damage drop-off at range Combat Rifle * Well Suited for Close-to-Mid Range Engagements * High ADS accuracy * Decent hipfire accuracy Scrambler Rifle * Well Suited for Mid-to-Long Range Engagements * High ADS / Skillshot accuracy * Low hipfire accuracy Rail Rifle * Well Suited for Long Range Engagements * High ADS accuracy * Low hipfire accuracy Laser Rifle * Unrivaled in Long Ranged Engagements * Pinpoint accuracy at range; zero efficacy up close * Consistently beats all other Rifles at long range
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4156	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:06:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. You don't nerf one thing and buff its rival. That's a double nerf and would create the same problem in reverse. The CR damage is fine, leave it alone. The AR needs a damage buff, but it also requires a major accuracy decrease, especially from aim down sights. It should operate the same way the Assault Rifle from Halo does. Major spread, high DPS weapon.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3059	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:09:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. buff the rate of fire from the AR up to 900. This will make it the king of close quarters and justify the fitting costs over the combat rifle. And with that a nerf to the CR would not be necessary.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 12	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:18:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. rail rifle: long range low rate of fire high damage at range low damage at short range very low hip fire accuracy scrambler rifle: mid-long range rate of fire variable (like it is now) moderate high damage at long range moderate low damage at close range low hip fire accuracy combat rifle: mid-close range relatively high Rate of fire low damage at long range high damage at mid to close moderate low hip fire accuracy assault rifle: close-mid range high rate of fire very low damage at long range very high damage at close range moderate hip fire accuracy
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3350	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:22:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. - Plasma Rifle should be the highest damage but with the shortest range. Fully automatic. - Combat Rifle has second highest damage and a more versatile range profile, but fires in bursts. (Busts should be handled like the Burst HMG, not resetting with each pull of the trigger as the CR does now.) - Pulse Laser Rifle (Scrambler) is a long range semi automatic rifle with a charged shot option for a high Alpha opener. Scrambler rile has heat buildup and overheat as a balancing factor. - Rail Rifle is a very long range automatic rifle with an initial charge up time. From top to bottom of the list the DPS goes down and the range goes up. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 512	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:38:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I've had this on my mind for a while, so thanks for asking: AR: Style: Sprint up to an enemy, blast him and his buddy while standing mostly still, retreat for repairs. Niche: Defeats any other rifle at short ranges. Is inferior to all other rifles from medium range range out. - Highest DPS - Highest damage per magazine - Shortest range, short fall-off - Large hip-fire accuracy penalty from movement - Low ammo reserves RR: Style: Whittle down hostiles from range indefinitely. Niche: Defeats any other rifle at long range. Looses against any other rifle at short ranges. - Longest range - Lowest DPS - Longest full-auto duration from full clip SCR: Style: Get out of cover, aim carefully, zap one enemy with the almighty alpha damage of the only righteous god, get back into cover until rifle has cooled down. Low mobility combat at it's peak. Niche: Defeats any other rifle in a 1v1 situation if the first short connects. Looses any continued fight. - High alpha, long cool down, low long-term DPS - Medium range, short fall-of - Low hip-fire accuracy - Very large ammo reserves CR: Style: High mobility combat at short to medium ranges. Kill one straggler, get back to cover to reload. Repeat from a different angle. Niche: Out-DPSes a SCR/RR at short range, out-ranges an AR at medium ranges. - DPS between RR and AR - Optimal range like AR, effective range like SCR - Low hip fire accuracy penalty from movement - Low damage per magazine - Fast reload speed I hope this helps.

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 863	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:46:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Don't do it! They're just using us for Legion research! CCP continues to make the wrong choices, one choice at a time. aka Legion.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 12	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:52:00 - [72] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Don't do it! They're just using us for Legion research! don't worry, they say they will have some sort of report for us by the end of the week, if they fail to deliver what we are looking for in dust from it then it will all go down a big black hole
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13317	Posted - 2014.05.15 19:08:00 - [73] - Quote I strongly agree with ZDub and Adipem on this. I would also caution against a double nerf like Himiko but I disagree that the CR DPS is fine - it's absurdly high at the moment. In terms of DPS it should generally be: Plasma rifle > Combat rifle > Scrambler rifle > Rail rifle The exception is really the SCR - it's a high alpha, high DPS weapon with terrible sustainability, and I think it's good that way. The core principle should be that you trade off range for getting higher damage - in the case of the SCR it still has a tradeoff (overheat) balancing possible high DPS. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 679	Posted - 2014.05.15 19:11:00 - [74] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. Wouldn't call it a solid weapon. I rather use an SMG than an AR, I'm serious. Actually after coming back to DUST after a break I can see a few glaring things.... The bullet slow down mechanic when you are shot NEED TO GO ASAP! Combat Rifles have a little too high RoF and HMG`s are too strong while this slowdown mechanic as you are hit, is in place. It is crazy now how many rounds I have to put into certain enemies now when I am using my Toxin AR. Most heavies take multiple clips to down, and the whole time I have to watch my range and dance around them.... hoping they dont get to cover. Its an interesting scenario, but really that slowdown needs to go, really needs to go.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 1374	Posted - 2014.05.15 19:46:00 - [75] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: [ rail rifle: long range low rate of fire high damage at range low damage at short range very low hip fire accuracy There's no reasonable way to make a projectile weapon have high damage at long range, but low damage at short range. Seems like best you can do is nerf the hip accuracy into the ground.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 217	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:00:00 - [76] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. Wouldn't call it a solid weapon. I rather use an SMG than an AR, I'm serious. Actually after coming back to DUST after a break I can see a few glaring things.... The bullet slow down mechanic when you are shot NEED TO GO ASAP! Combat Rifles have a little too high RoF and HMG`s are too strong while this slowdown mechanic as you are hit, is in place. It is crazy now how many rounds I have to put into certain enemies now when I am using my Toxin AR. Most heavies take multiple clips to down, and the whole time I have to watch my range and dance around them.... hoping they dont get to cover. Its an interesting scenario, but really that slowdown needs to go, really needs to go. Multiple clips? You must be hitting heavies that have someone repping them, either that or not at the right range, since I know an AR can take down most heavies in a single clip, if they all hit and you are also not going against a Gallente or Amarr heavy. Both of those racial variants of the sentinel have protection against ARs (I think) and high armor which the ARs are not great against, ARs are meant to eat shields, but get a tooth ache when they hit armor. The CR is one of the if not most broken of the weapons in the game, these things are replacing shotguns for how high the dps is, and they can even do it at a greater distance away. They can mow people down at 100m+ and do really high dps, along with high accuracy and great at close combat. They need to either be med-long or med-close for how they work, they should never be doing so much damage that an AR can't compete with them which is what is happening now. If I was to pick a gun to fear between the CR and HMG, the CR wins hands down every time, even at close combat range. because the amount of optimal kill zone for the HMG is actually tiny, you can be either to close to them for them to really hit you or you can get your distance away from them. Especially if you are using a scout suit which most CR users now use, the CR currently beats all rifles, in nearly every single catagory, except for the laser rifle at the laser rifles max range, and even then the laser rifle barely wins.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1484	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:59:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. The way I've always thought it should be: SCR - The Tactical Sniper Rifle The scrambler rifle is the king of skill shots. You can tactically place your high damage shots from it's large clip of long range rounds, even charging them up, and do mega-bonus damage from head shots. In return for these bonuses, it overheats... honestly it should also suffer from a greatly increased recoil, especially it's charged shot. The point of this is to make it difficult to use up close. The higher the damage per round, the greater the recoil should be. This needs to basically be a tactical sniper rifle. As for the damage v armor/shields, I have no issue with any of the weapons. AR - The Bullet Hose The assault rifle is the master of CQC. You should be able to out gun any rifle 1v1 when not snuck up on when in a <10m fight. It should get bonus damage when in CQC, be mediocre at mid range and it should be terrible at long range. It's spread may need to be tweaked up to compensate, but this would also likely make it even better for CQC hipfire. Possibly a ROF increase since high ROF is sort of what CQC is all about, but drop the overall damage to keep it's bonuses from making it too good out of it's element. Basically the AR needs to be the ACR with better damage at under 10m and a slightly reduced ROF, spray and pray all the way. RR - The Ranged Bruiser The rail rifle is a ranged bruiser, basically having a toned down version of the AR's CQC damage bonus but at all ranged, but in return having a very low ROF and a meaningful charge-up time. The low ROF and meaningful charge time means even though you have a full auto weapon that does massive damage at most ranges, you have to make every round count. If the enemy uses a lot of cover, you should be in big trouble because your weapon is meant to take out people trying to close in on your position from across open spaces. (sidearms are there for a reason) Basically since the AR needs to be a spray and pray, this one needs to be a weapon where every bullet counts. CR - The Thorn in Your Side The combat rifle is an ambush weapon, made for guerrilla warfare. It's made to get hits in and get out. The high ROF bursts are perfect for this, but the delay between bursts is far too short. It needs higher damage bursts, but they need to have a delay about as long, if not longer than the Allotek burst's. Honestly for this weapon to be perfect as an ambush weapon, add in this delay and make all damage done by the CR take longer to regenerate. I know it'll never happen, but that's what would make it perfect for hit-and-run tactics. Higher damage bursts, really long burst delay, damage takes longer to recover from. In short, to be perfect: SCR-Monster long range, heavy headshot, monster recoil, basically tactical sniper. BAD cqc, GOOD mid, AAA long AR-ACR with damage profile change+damage bonus under 10m+900-1000ish ROF. AAA cqc, FAIR mid, BAD/NO long RR-All range heavy hitter, bad v cover users, every bullet counts. GOOD cqc, GOOD mid, OK long CR-Hit&run weapon, damage takes longer to recover, long burst delay, high damage burst. FAIR cqc, AAA mid, FAIR long Basically every rifle should have a weakness that you should have to rely on your sidearm to compensate for, and on that point... every race's sidearm should have traits that somewhat make up for it's rifle's weaknesses. It only makes sense that a race would see it's technology's drawbacks and compensate for them. Armor/shield damage excluded, as that is what separates the races to begin with. My 0.02isk. Not sure anyone cares at this point what my opinion is since I've quit, but figured I'd share the way I always thought it would be best done. Good luck. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Scheherazade VII SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.05.15 21:37:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. what about the range on the rail rifle? did anybody even test that gun? it doesn't seem like it. Permanent Beta Tester \|\| MAG Vet, SVER Scrub For Life
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 294	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:01:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. the problem with the rifles is actually shield tanking vs armor tanking assault rifles where good back when everyone shield tanked in beta. then you buffed armor and everyone switched to armor tanking to stand a better chance against plasma rifles. now everyone armor tanks and we now have the combat rifle and rail rifles to shred them to pieces. but guess what? nobody went back to shield tanking because 3 out of 4 rifle deal excellent damage to shields but only 2 of them do great damage to armor. then add to that the fact that we dont have a rep tool for shield tanks and local shield reps arent as good as remote armor reps. also armor tankers get to fit damage mods without sacrificing slots for armor plates. all of this is to show the reason why people armor tank over shield tanking, and because of it the assault rifle has fallen out of favor simply since no one runs what it was designed to kill. you need to provide more low slot items that are useful to shield tankers in order for shield tanking to be more attractive to players. perhaps moving shield rechargers to low slots since we dont get remote reps or use from nanohives or higher tier nanite injectors? the combat rifle is lopsided. change the weapon profile to -5% shields and +5% armor. lets see how the battlefield responds to that first.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 294	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:03:00 - [80] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. what about the range on the rail rifle? did anybody even test that gun? it doesn't seem like it. what about the range? if anything it needs to be increased to make better use of its scope.

bear90211 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 206	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:13:00 - [81] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I would say the damage is pretty high. Once I get hit by a CR, I really don't have much time to react. Reminds me of how the RR was. No other weapon can knock down a heavy faster than a CR. My gastuns takes em down pretty fast, out DPS and outguns the CR (Assault version) by a 170% increase on proto level, 220% on officer lev, Im happy to be in ambush :D My sig is suuper old.. now i rip faces with my HMG. looking for logies yo.btw #tacos
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 13	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:44:00 - [82] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: [ rail rifle: long range low rate of fire high damage at range low damage at short range very low hip fire accuracy There's no reasonable way to make a projectile weapon have high damage at long range, but low damage at short range. Seems like best you can do is nerf the hip accuracy into the ground. this is the unreal engine we are talking about, if they can vary the damage for the laser rifle then there is no reason they can't do it for other weapons
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 13	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:50:00 - [83] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Scheherazade VII wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. what about the range on the rail rifle? did anybody even test that gun? it doesn't seem like it. what about the range? if anything it needs to be increased to make better use of its scope. and maybe give it a true scope, instead of a sight
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 261	Posted - 2014.05.15 23:36:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Assault (Plasma) Rifle All around rifle for close to medium range In group battles prioritizes main forces/damage dealers/pretty much anyone who pops their head out of cover In building defense prioritizes in-building defense, making sure no enemies enter, or live long enough to do anything inside, shoots close-to-medium range enemies Combat Rifle Hit-and-run from close-medium to medium-far range Used by smaller, faster moving groups/people to harass and wear down larger groups In group battles prioritizes people trying to get away/flank In building defense prioritizes fast and sneaky enemies trying to move in from sides, shoots ~medium range enemies Scrambler Rifle User fights with group and their job is to find and eliminate high value targets (logis, heavies) to cripple enemy forces In group battles prioritizes logis, heavies, and other vital enemies In building defense prioritizes farthest and tankiest enemies, shoots medium-to-long range enemies Rail Rifle All around rifle for medium to far range In group battles prioritizes late arrivals that haven't gotten into cover and are out of other weapons ranges In building defense prioritizes farthest and tankiest targets, shoots ~medium and medium-to long range enemies Recruiter Link thread
Bat Cow Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:06:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I know what you're going for LogiBro and I appreciate you seeking input from the community, but this still this irks me... There have been a lot of these types of questions over time from the Devs. The question I always asked myself whenever I saw this posed to the community was, "What was the Devs original vision for this? What were the designers, people whose jobs consisted of actually working on Dust for a living, thinking when they came up with the concepts of the weapons and started fleshing out the designs, stats, etc." Sure, the item has a cool back story and paragraphs of text explaining its history, design, and neat terms like "turtle-poo powered arc anti-reactors", but what place does the item have within the game? Does it actually fill a niche, or was the item's sole purpose to create an imbalance, an SP sink, and to drive Aurum sales, meaning there was little to no thought given to actual gameplay or balance. What I would honestly like to see is the game as the designer's intended. This would show us all whether CCP truly has a grasp of gameplay mechanics and balance with an FPS, or whether they're just making it up as they go along and hiding behind the "HTFU" mantra when things get out of whack. (I think it would honestly give me more confidence in CCP's future projects as well. ) The tremendous amount of imbalance, bad fittings, glitches, and errors in 1.7 & 1.8 should never have happened. Not to mention there are still items missing/broken since beta- not being able to run/jump smoothly over basic terrain, inability to sell items to even to a regular store for ISK, etc.. As exciting as Legion or Valkyrie may seem, Dust is actually here. Now. And instead of it being fixed, it remains broken. Instead of demonstrating leadership, instead of taking responsibility for what's broken and fixing it, you're turning to us- the players for suggestions. And yet, we're supposed to embrace Legion? (mic drop, exit stage left) Moo.
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 783	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:18:00 - [86] - Quote buff std ar dmg from 30 to 31. leave acr alone. nerf cr burst refire rate a little bit. a small amount a decently small amount. mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere... dust 514 shall be eternal. pve for dust 514
STABBEY Heaven's Lost Property 488	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:23:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. For the love of god leave the DAM CR alone I'm specced into 2 weapons. The AR that I've used since closed beta and the CR because the AR was rendered completely useless by a bunch of crybaby r3tards. ANYTHING CCP trys o "Balance" gets nerfed to the ground and rendered useless instantly. Tha assault isn't even a viable class anymore due to the morons and the "Balancing" Gÿú GÖ¦ Gÿñ Gäó © sç+(¬GÇ+¬)sç+ (-éGîú¦Ç_Gîú¦ü)ßòñ Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ-Vet-GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ+¦Gû¼Gû¼ +¬(GùÅ¦«¦âGÇó)¦¦ (GùúGùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ (a+ç'¦Ç-'¦ü)a+ç GöîGê¬GöÉ(Gùú_Gùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 688	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:38:00 - [88] - Quote STABBEY wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. For the love of god leave the DAM CR alone I'm specced into 2 weapons. The AR that I've used since closed beta and the CR because the AR was rendered completely useless by a bunch of crybaby r3tards. ANYTHING CCP trys o "Balance" gets nerfed to the ground and rendered useless instantly. Tha assault isn't even a viable class anymore due to the morons and the "Balancing" The AR out-DPS'd Shotguns and HMGs up close, Laser Rifles at range, and everything else in between. Those "crybaby r3tards" had real beef, yet AR-514 -- magically -- persisted for the better part of a year. I'm sorry that you lost your win-button; it had a good long run, but it had to go.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 579	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:07:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. yall were aware a year ago.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5643	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:29:00 - [90] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. IWS said sometime back that the stunlock issue is "being looked into" and (oddly) "it isn't a bug". Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2089315#post2089315 Glad to see CCP is bringing it up post-FF; perhaps they might fix it for us afterall :-) It's not a bug, it was an intended feature back when hit-detection was totally whack. As far as what the rifles should be doing, I'm strongly opposed to making the Assault Rifle have "great hipfire accuracy" much for the same reason I've always said it: Too much accuracy in CQC = Bad. Unless you're a god at gun game, having a weapon with great accuracy in a high-speed strafe battle at <20m is a death sentence. I really don't care what happens with the Assault Rifle at this point because my opinion hasn't changed: The CR is out-performing it, the AR needs to be good at CQC and accuracy, if at all possible, should be up to the player. Too high of accuracy, it becomes unwieldy because you need a bit of dispersion when firing from the hip or you're liable to miss everything because you're not directly on-target (this was the problem with the HMG for the longest time). Too low, however, and it becomes a pointless endeavor. Hipfire should be a bit better than the SMG, but not so much that it becomes frustrating to work with. The SMG was/is an infantry murderer in CQC, despite having a really high dispersion. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182

Buster Friently Rosen Association 2388	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:29:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. After the Flaylock gets fixed right? Seriously, the AR can wait, it's been OP throughout Dust until the last patch. Fix something else instead of making that gun OP again. Frankly, all of the Hitscan weapons still need to be detuned down to where the AR is now.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3061	Posted - 2014.05.16 03:47:00 - [92] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. After the Flaylock gets fixed right? Seriously, the AR can wait, it's been OP throughout Dust until the last patch. Fix something else instead of making that gun OP again. Frankly, all of the Hitscan weapons still need to be detuned down to where the AR is now. Oi oi oi. The flaylock stays where it is. For the sake of the community and my nerves. I never want to see that it becomes a "i win button" ever again.
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA 4	Posted - 2014.05.16 04:21:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. The way i see it or rather the way I though it should be the way it works is... Rail Rifle is anti armor because is a caldari weapon and they fight the gallente which are armor base. This rifle should be long range. I think ths weapon is fine as it is right now although I do hate that it is almost useless at short range. The scrambler is an anti shield weapon. I think is fine the way it is. It should have 20% bonus anti shield but -20% against armor. The combat rifle is an anti armor gun used for close quarter combat or at least it should be. Besides is a minmatar weapon and it should be used to fight the ammar which have high armor. I think that it having a high rate of fire is fine because that is what they specialice in. Go in quick, kill quick get out quick. The Assault rifle should be the balance weapon. It should do damage to both armor and shield equally. The problem I see with the combat rifle is that it is good at everything. It can kill rather well up close, far away, against armor and against shields. It has no weakness except maybe that it is semi auto. That thing barely has any recoil. Let me put it this way, if I where to go against a heavy I cannot kill it with level proficiency assault rifle or at the very least not very easily. However, even at level 1, the combat rifle can take on a heavy. I'm currently specking into the combat rifle because it has no weaknesses.
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2014.05.16 05:50:00 - [94] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. The way I've always thought it should be: SCR - The Tactical Sniper Rifle The scrambler rifle is the king of skill shots. You can tactically place your high damage shots from it's large clip of long range rounds, even charging them up, and do mega-bonus damage from head shots. In return for these bonuses, it overheats... honestly it should also suffer from a greatly increased recoil, especially it's charged shot. The point of this is to make it difficult to use up close. The higher the damage per round, the greater the recoil should be. This needs to basically be a tactical sniper rifle. As for the damage v armor/shields, I have no issue with any of the weapons. AR - The Bullet Hose The assault rifle is the master of CQC. You should be able to out gun any rifle 1v1 when not snuck up on when in a <10m fight. It should get bonus damage when in CQC, be mediocre at mid range and it should be terrible at long range. It's spread may need to be tweaked up to compensate, but this would also likely make it even better for CQC hipfire. Possibly a ROF increase since high ROF is sort of what CQC is all about, but drop the overall damage to keep it's bonuses from making it too good out of it's element. Basically the AR needs to be the ACR with better damage at under 10m and a slightly reduced ROF, spray and pray all the way. RR - The Ranged Bruiser The rail rifle is a ranged bruiser, basically having a toned down version of the AR's CQC damage bonus but at all ranged, but in return having a very low ROF and a meaningful charge-up time. The low ROF and meaningful charge time means even though you have a full auto weapon that does massive damage at most ranges, you have to make every round count. If the enemy uses a lot of cover, you should be in big trouble because your weapon is meant to take out people trying to close in on your position from across open spaces. (sidearms are there for a reason) Basically since the AR needs to be a spray and pray, this one needs to be a weapon where every bullet counts. CR - The Thorn in Your Side The combat rifle is an ambush weapon, made for guerrilla warfare. It's made to get hits in and get out. The high ROF bursts are perfect for this, but the delay between bursts is far too short. It needs higher damage bursts, but they need to have a delay about as long, if not longer than the Allotek burst's. Honestly for this weapon to be perfect as an ambush weapon, add in this delay and make all damage done by the CR take longer to regenerate. I know it'll never happen, but that's what would make it perfect for hit-and-run tactics. Higher damage bursts, really long burst delay, damage takes longer to recover from. In short, to be perfect: SCR-Monster long range, heavy headshot, monster recoil, basically tactical sniper. BAD cqc, GOOD mid, AAA long AR-ACR with damage profile change+damage bonus under 10m+900-1000ish ROF. AAA cqc, FAIR mid, BAD/NO long RR-All range heavy hitter, bad v cover users, every bullet counts. GOOD cqc, GOOD mid, OK long CR-Hit&run weapon, damage takes longer to recover, long burst delay, high damage burst. FAIR cqc, AAA mid, FAIR long Basically every rifle should have a weakness that you should have to rely on your sidearm to compensate for, and on that point... every race's sidearm should have traits that somewhat make up for it's rifle's weaknesses. It only makes sense that a race would see it's technology's drawbacks and compensate for them. Armor/shield damage excluded, as that is what separates the races to begin with. My 0.02isk. Not sure anyone cares at this point what my opinion is since I've quit, but figured I'd share the way I always thought it would be best done. Good luck. I appreciate your opinion. I'm in agreement with you in most respects; the problem with those zones of efficacy is that the map design means the AR would always reign supreme. Our issues are deeper than simple buff-nerfing. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 93	Posted - 2014.05.16 07:35:00 - [95] - Quote Can I just say that it seems pretty clear that it is the ACR that is op rather than problems with other rifles. Standard combat rifles do require a certain amount of skill to use (not saying it needs a lot of skill). I am rarely killed by one. The assault variant however is definitely FOTM. It should have had it's damage nerfed to the same degree as the standard CR. The trouble with the plasma rifle is that it lacks power compared to the ACR combined with a worse damage profile. The larger clip isn't enough to make up for this disadvantage. If the dps of the ACR was reduced things would probably be pretty balanced. Rail rifles and scrambler rifles seem fine. CCP did a great job balancing rail rifles, especially considering laser rifles were buffed at the same time.
Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2014.05.16 08:25:00 - [96] - Quote It's easy to tell which weapons are the best. Overall,as players, we naturally have an inclination to make the "best setup" within a set of criteria whether it's ISK, skill points or whatever. It's a reason you see commando suits out there in vast numbers. Same reason you see combat assault rifles and rail guns. Same can be said about magsec guns and what not. The point is if you think about a battle and what type of weapon kills you the most and isn't situational (ie.sniper, nova, vehicle) then it gets the points across. You will get killed by a laser rifle as often as a mass driver but its usually RR's, ACR's & shotgun+cloaks that do you in. If you've spent skill points in AR, logi, active scanners you're kind of semi f**ked and I'm in that boat as far as wasted skillpoints.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7604	Posted - 2014.05.16 11:02:00 - [97] - Quote Bat Cow wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I know what you're going for LogiBro and I appreciate you seeking input from the community, but this still this irks me... There have been a lot of these types of questions over time from the Devs. The question I always asked myself whenever I saw this posed to the community was, "What was the Devs original vision for this? What were the designers, people whose jobs consisted of actually working on Dust for a living, thinking when they came up with the concepts of the weapons and started fleshing out the designs, stats, etc." Sure, the item has a cool back story and paragraphs of text explaining its history, design, and neat terms like "turtle-poo powered arc anti-reactors", but what place does the item have within the game? Does it actually fill a niche, or was the item's sole purpose to create an imbalance, an SP sink, and to drive Aurum sales, meaning there was little to no thought given to actual gameplay or balance. What I would honestly like to see is the game as the designer's intended. This would show us all whether CCP truly has a grasp of gameplay mechanics and balance with an FPS, or whether they're just making it up as they go along and hiding behind the "HTFU" mantra when things get out of whack. (I think it would honestly give me more confidence in CCP's future projects as well. ) The tremendous amount of imbalance, bad fittings, glitches, and errors in 1.7 & 1.8 should never have happened. Not to mention there are still items missing/broken since beta- not being able to run/jump smoothly over basic terrain, inability to sell items to even to a regular store for ISK, etc.. As exciting as Legion or Valkyrie may seem, Dust is actually here. Now. And instead of it being fixed, it remains broken. Instead of demonstrating leadership, instead of taking responsibility for what's broken and fixing it, you're turning to us- the players for suggestions. And yet, we're supposed to embrace Legion? (mic drop, exit stage left) Personal curiosity. I don't work on the design of the weapons, I'm just curious to see how people see the weapons at the moment in the community. We already have ideas for how we want to tweak the weapons, but it helps to get a second opinion as well, especially since you guys use these guns a lot. Also, the Flaylock is on our list to get some love (and no, we won't put it back to it's I win button state, I still have nightmares about that) CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 57	Posted - 2014.05.16 11:16:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Bat Cow wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I know what you're going for LogiBro and I appreciate you seeking input from the community, but this still this irks me... There have been a lot of these types of questions over time from the Devs. The question I always asked myself whenever I saw this posed to the community was, "What was the Devs original vision for this? What were the designers, people whose jobs consisted of actually working on Dust for a living, thinking when they came up with the concepts of the weapons and started fleshing out the designs, stats, etc." Sure, the item has a cool back story and paragraphs of text explaining its history, design, and neat terms like "turtle-poo powered arc anti-reactors", but what place does the item have within the game? Does it actually fill a niche, or was the item's sole purpose to create an imbalance, an SP sink, and to drive Aurum sales, meaning there was little to no thought given to actual gameplay or balance. What I would honestly like to see is the game as the designer's intended. This would show us all whether CCP truly has a grasp of gameplay mechanics and balance with an FPS, or whether they're just making it up as they go along and hiding behind the "HTFU" mantra when things get out of whack. (I think it would honestly give me more confidence in CCP's future projects as well. ) The tremendous amount of imbalance, bad fittings, glitches, and errors in 1.7 & 1.8 should never have happened. Not to mention there are still items missing/broken since beta- not being able to run/jump smoothly over basic terrain, inability to sell items to even to a regular store for ISK, etc.. As exciting as Legion or Valkyrie may seem, Dust is actually here. Now. And instead of it being fixed, it remains broken. Instead of demonstrating leadership, instead of taking responsibility for what's broken and fixing it, you're turning to us- the players for suggestions. And yet, we're supposed to embrace Legion? (mic drop, exit stage left) Personal curiosity. I don't work on the design of the weapons, I'm just curious to see how people see the weapons at the moment in the community. We already have ideas for how we want to tweak the weapons, but it helps to get a second opinion as well, especially since you guys use these guns a lot. Also, the Flaylock is on our list to get some love (and no, we won't put it back to it's I win button state, I still have nightmares about that) This still becomes a bigger mess and problem than a few weapon tweaks will do. It really goes back to how things were just simply introduced without a great balancing system in-check; you tweak rr's someone is going to be upset and if it were modded to have a huge drawback when targeting upclose then we'd still have them falling back to the combat. Let alone the weapons aren't as bad as how the suit balance is; scouts still stacking armor far surpassing assault and logic [and still technically able to outrun the logic and the assault in some cases] is probably the most glaring issue. Even if speed were one issue the scan profile still works in their favor as well. There is where really the damage and input isn't really that useful I hate to say; once something is introduced players don't want it gone for the most part unless its significantly made useless (ie. active scanner). If there was more caution as to how this game balancing would work before something was released we wouldn't be in this position but we are, it's not reversible and even if take the future Dust and Legion, we still run into a catch-22; modding/tweaking the wpns require how it's currently used and how everything from suits and equipment factor in and any said mods can have a glaring impact. Cloaks made this an overall 2-suit game with heavies and scouts; machine gun, shotguns, railguns and combat rifles are the common wpns. If you think about it really hard the wpns in play actively have made lasers, mass and ar nearly a relic. It's not really the "anti-fanboyism" sentiment but rather a realistic statement: with the current array of choices in Dust and mod seems to affect everything and where we are right now in the game makes any mods so much more rougher to implement.
Grimmiers 546	Posted - 2014.05.16 12:18:00 - [99] - Quote Rifles shouldn't really outperform each other, but behave differently and have different profiles. It seems like ccp is balancing guns on opposing races only instead of just adding a bit of their flavor to the assault rifle class. Amarrs are heavily tanked suits and can have a ton of shields and armor so they made the combat rifle able to take out shields and armor in the same ratio the average amarr would tank on his suit. The gallente assault rifle was made to kill caldari suits which we all know are shield tanked and have a smaller ehp. This already creates and imbalance because any gun designed to kill a suit with high shield and armor tanking potential in this game would be the best gun to use. Another factor is the two playstyles promoted by each race. Caldari and Gallente weapons are meant for long and close range tracking while the Amarr and Minmatar are use for long and short range burst damage. I think this alone is enough of a difference for the weapons and damage should be much closer than it is for each weapon. The damage output of the combat rifle and the gallente rifle should be much closer. We also should remember that shields have a much faster regeneration so a high damage to shields isn't as devastating as high damage to armor after the dust settles. As for the different variants of the Assault rifles I always thought they should be removed until they have an equivalent for the other rifles. For an alternate gallente weapon I would like a breach assault rifle with a scope, longer range, and an rpm of 500 to mimic the rail rifle. The proto breach ar with the same damage and an increased 500 rpm actually has the same damage of the devolle doing 412.5 damage a second which is more than the rr, but with less range.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 690	Posted - 2014.05.16 12:38:00 - [100] - Quote @ Aeon (on AR hipfire accuracy) I agree entirely. Too accurate and you can't hit sht. When I say great hipfire accuracy* for the AR, what I mean is better hipfire for the AR when compared with weapons. Thank you for pointing out my syntactic error. o7

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9730	Posted - 2014.05.16 12:52:00 - [101] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: STABBEY wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. For the love of god leave the DAM CR alone I'm specced into 2 weapons. The AR that I've used since closed beta and the CR because the AR was rendered completely useless by a bunch of crybaby r3tards. ANYTHING CCP trys o "Balance" gets nerfed to the ground and rendered useless instantly. Tha assault isn't even a viable class anymore due to the morons and the "Balancing" The AR out-DPS'd Shotguns and HMGs up close, Laser Rifles at range, and everything else in between. Those "crybaby r3tards" had real beef, yet AR-514 persisted unfettered for the better part of a year. I'm sorry that you lost your win-button; it had a good long run, but it had to go. Thankfully, the CR is not broken like the old AR. But it still needs tuning, as does the new AR. Either way, the fact that CCP still intends to smooth rough edges can only be taken as good news. The AR never out DPSed HMG's. It's a myth, with triple damage mods, prof V and a duvolle you could not get past the DPS of an STD HMG. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 94	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:27:00 - [102] - Quote Gemini Cuspid wrote: Let alone the weapons aren't as bad as how the suit balance is; scouts still stacking armor far surpassing assault and logic [and still technically able to outrun the logic and the assault in some cases] is probably the most glaring issue. Even if speed were one issue the scan profile still works in their favor as well. Scout suits can not stack as much armor as assault or logi suits (obviously referring to Gallente). Not sure why I keep having to say this. Maybe Gal scouts 3hp/s rep is op, maybe it should be 2 like medium suits. Maybe you should have to finish decloaking before being able to fire. These are potential minor fixes to a minor FOTM problem. Can people stop spreading false statements like scout suits get more armour than mediums. P.S, if you try to counter my argument but comparing (for example) Gal scouts with Min assaults, you are an idiot. Also proto Amarr assault suits should be 2/4 not 3/3.
Emo Skellington The Neutral Zone 62	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:36:00 - [103] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. Do the ground thing. But i just got my CR proto'd hmmph, no fair lol It doesn tmatter. If they bring up the AR and nerf the CR, i still have my proto AR's with prof level 3!! :P So bring on the nerfing and the love Supporter of Legion Supporter of Valkyrie Supporter/Fan of Eve
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 320	Posted - 2014.05.16 18:04:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I have to say something I have not seen mention of and thast is fitting cost. The CR is always a scouts go to rifle if they do not want to run shotgun. It takes way less PG and CPU to run it. Also anybody running it is capable of gaining more hitpoints or damage or whatever because they can use better plates of damage mods. Just a thought. Make the CR cost more to fit and also lower the damage of it just slightly. Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *FIGHT THE POWER
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2014.05.16 19:48:00 - [105] - Quote remove aim assist - assault rifle's total lack of recoil now means something. The combat rifle kicks like a MULE and i have a lot of trouble trying to use it with mouse/keyboard. I always do better with an assault rifle because of this.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 457	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:05:00 - [106] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. And once done what can Minmatar suit user do to compete? Oh yeah - move .2 m/s quicker. "Shine bright like a diamond"
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 295	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:28:00 - [107] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Aeon (on AR hipfire accuracy) I agree entirely. Too accurate and you can't hit sht. When I say great hipfire accuracy* for the AR, what I mean is better hipfire for the AR when compared with weapons. Thank you for pointing out my syntactic error. o7 increase dispersion and rof so you can more consistently hit targets at close ranges
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2399	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:32:00 - [108] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Buster Friently wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. After the Flaylock gets fixed right? Seriously, the AR can wait, it's been OP throughout Dust until the last patch. Fix something else instead of making that gun OP again. Frankly, all of the Hitscan weapons still need to be detuned down to where the AR is now. Oi oi oi. The flaylock stays where it is. For the sake of the community and my nerves. I never want to see that it becomes a "i win button" ever again. It never was an "I win" button. It was useful as a short range weapon. If the AR users of the time could have simply learned not to close range on it, and thus die, there would have been no problem. This was, and still is, an issue with AR users mentality who believe that they should always win a firefight. Currently the flaylock is useless and definitely needs love more that the AR. Until recently, the AR has been the biggest "I win" button in the game, and has existed as such for far too long. The weapon usage and kill statistics speak for themselves.
Stupid Blueberry Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 499	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:55:00 - [109] - Quote Orenji Jiji wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Cardio Therapy wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. LOL really? Still butthurt about cloaks? Get gud scrub. it is not a cloak. it is and invisibility mod. It was a mistake. it should just redice the scan profile and nothing more. The scouts must be aware and not invisible. It should work like this: Current level of visual cloaking beyond 50 metres No visual cloaking within 50 metres, just the profile reduction (Doesn't have to be a hard change, could fade in/out between 40 and 60 metres, though maybe that is too resource intensive) Rationale: 1. The cloak reduces the annoyance from tanks, ADS, stationary turrets, and snipers for run-and-gun infantry. They are mostly longer range (50 metres plus) threats 2. Would remove the stupid issue with invisible (on some maps) shotgunners instaglibing 3. In terms of a 'technical explanation', it could easily be that every suit and vehicle carries cloak decoding equipment with a limited range And why not cloak disruptor equipment that disables cloak in 50m range? You activate -- all cloaks entering 50m radius get drained to 0 immediately as long it's ON -- same battery settings as cloaks. I'm running 200hp infiltrator scout (no-shotty, no-re's) and that would satisfy me -- something you have counters something I have and doesn't make it useless -- I often run past reds to get to my objective. :) Also CR damage is not a problem. Stun locking is. I don't understand why am I suddenly paraplegic when hit from any f-ing direction. Applies to other weapons as well. Why are we discussing cloaks in this thread? Chillin, waitin on Legion. Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3394	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:10:00 - [110] - Quote Figured I'd drop my feedback in this thread as a valued member of the community: AR - Should be devastating in CQC, but have a ton of kick when ADS. The main advantage of the AR should be the ability to deal constant DPS EVEN while you're strafing. The way you make this balanced is by making sure that trying to ADS the thing to kill people from more than 50 meters away is impossible. CR - Slightly less DPS than the AR, but much greater accuracy when ADS. This is the short range weapon with a scope...in other words it's great for killing targets at medium range, but lacks the punching power for long-range engagements, and doesn't have the effectiveness of the AR in CQC. But because of its accuracy, it's much more versatile and focuses fire better. SR - The do-it-yourself weapon. High power, high accuracy, devastating charge shot...but you have to manually press the trigger and make sure not to overheat. This is the weapon for those (like me) who absolutely love the semi-auto rather than full-auto rifles, and are great at managing balance. So while it has great benefits, and is probably the best weapon in the game...it is limited to only certain users because of how much you need to regulate the weapon yourself. (I feel the scrambler is the most balanced weapon in the game, and has always been) RR - Lowest DPS of all Rifles, but the ability to literally snipe your opponent from a million miles away. The high damage per shot also makes it very important that you don't miss very often, so even at long range with high kick it still becomes somewhat of a challenge to deal effective damage unless you are a pro marksman. The one thing it needs more than anything else is to be useless at CQC engagements. Instead of having small dispersion, there should either be insane dispersion (like trying to use the sniper in CQC without scoping), or no dispersion (like the laser rifle). Either way, it makes it VERY difficult for a player to use the weapon for anything other than long-range combat. _________________________________________________________________________ One of the current problematic weapons is the ACR. The reason why it is so problematic is because the kick functions just like the AR kick...it gradually builds up as you fire, but stays insanely accurate just by releasing the trigger for a split second only to press it again and remove all kick from the weapon. Weapons like the Assault SCR have a different kick mechanic while ADS that prevents them from staying super accurate alll the time. The ACR should keep its damage output, but should be impossible to just ADS-kill everything without having to deal with massive amounts of kick. In other words, make it like the AR that I talked about above and it won't be dreaded anymore. It shouldn't be able to spew 68 rounds into someone's face even at 70+ meters away. The same dispersion while hip-firing should be applied to in a smaller amount to the ADS of both CQC rifles. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

Eko Sol Strange Playings 288	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:25:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. Clearly the additional nerf in 1.7 to the AR was to make people skill into the RR or CR AND capitalize on revenue from AUR purchases for the new product. The CR is fine as it stands. I run CR and I run it quite well and I still am beaten by other weapons without much of an issue (i.e. RR, ARR, SCR, LSRR). No more nerf hammers...period. I'm sick of all of they cry babies. I'm sick of it. If you aren't fixing bugs then leave the game alone. ****, I only have 1 point in lasers, run a MLT Min Heavy, and Beat CR often enough to warrant people to STOP CRYING. Fix RE's not sticking to tanks. Fix 2x/3x Kin Kat scouts jumping across the screen b/c they are lagging while moving over 10m/s. Fix your network issues and other things associated with damage registering. Fix bugs. FIX BUGS. The CR is fine simply because I beat it with my Basic Gal Assault and a Gek. FIX BUGS!! FIX BUGS! If you aren't fixing bugs then leave it alone. If you leave a baby crying in the crib enough it will eventually stop. It has too or it will die. Stop listening to these idiots. It doesn't make sense. My 30 Balacs Gars were doing just fine without a buff and without nerfs to other weapons. FIX BUGS! PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:44:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. Thank God. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 61	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:30:00 - [113] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Gemini Cuspid wrote: Let alone the weapons aren't as bad as how the suit balance is; scouts still stacking armor far surpassing assault and logic [and still technically able to outrun the logic and the assault in some cases] is probably the most glaring issue. Even if speed were one issue the scan profile still works in their favor as well. Scout suits can not stack as much armor as assault or logi suits (obviously referring to Gallente). Not sure why I keep having to say this. Maybe Gal scouts 3hp/s rep is op, maybe it should be 2 like medium suits. Maybe you should have to finish decloaking before being able to fire. These are potential minor fixes to a minor FOTM problem. Can people stop spreading false statements like scout suits get more armour than mediums. P.S, if you try to counter my argument but comparing (for example) Gal scouts with Min assaults, you are an idiot. Also proto Amarr assault suits should be 2/4 not 3/3. If I were to add qualifiers then the honest question is should I be stacking armor as much on Logi to the point where I should be using a heavy or should i be seeing scouts anywhere near 400+ armor still outrunning a logi. This isn't a baseless argument either is what's broken with the game. You're telling me this: You can stack as much armor on logi than a scout BUT you don't have the same speed, scan precision and if you add dampeners and stamina oh hey GUESS WHICH SLOT YOU LOOSE ON ARMOR. Yes awesome argument because that still is the essential argument mainly; the scouts are really adding the armor on with only a speed penalty overall. You can't achieve the same effect. So guess what we're still back at a broken suit system and no this ins't spreading false info either because if no one realized this the most common combo wouldn't be shotgun + stacked commando armor. Any argument you bring is a mute point if you're doing an on-par basis unless you can "magically" argue you can stack the armors, get the same scan profile and same speed on a logi as a stacked scout. No you can't, case closed That is WHY IT'S BROKEN. Where are the assault suits huh? hear's the wind was the news of logi suit broken in tomorrows news also or did you just come late to this argument and wanted to white knight the whole "scouts are fine" argument also for the sake of your conscience. If you're going to argue on a single point, armor, i'm looking at it the way an actual logi would use and no we don't fill ALL SLOTS ARMOR BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY SLOW AS F**K & DON'T HAVE THE SAME FIREPOWER AS A HEAVY. Literally, next argument please because that was the most ridiculous thing to nit pick about.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 94	Posted - 2014.05.17 11:16:00 - [114] - Quote Gemini Cuspid wrote: You can stack as much armor on logi than a scout BUT you don't have the same speed, scan precision and if you add dampeners and stamina oh hey GUESS WHICH SLOT YOU LOOSE ON ARMOR. Yes awesome argument because that still is the essential argument mainly; the scouts are really adding the armor on with only a speed penalty overall. You can't achieve the same effect. Ok, I understand what you are saying. Please be more clear in future as you make the problem sound much worse than it is. I have been looking into this in detail and the issues are pretty complex. Comparing a Gallente logi to a brick Gallente scout I can get very similar suits. However you are right that the logi has to either sacrifice about 7% movement in order to have a similar profile, or has similar movement but a high profile. Now, people can argue that profile and movement speed are less important than hp for a logi or assault, but I do understand your point. I just want people to understand that the discrepancy is not as huge as some people make it out. I should make a separate topic about this as it is not really about plasma rifles. Though all balance issues are connected.
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 442	Posted - 2014.05.17 15:03:00 - [115] - Quote superjoe360x wrote: I have to say something I have not seen mention of and thast is fitting cost. The CR is always a scouts go to rifle if they do not want to run shotgun. It takes way less PG and CPU to run it. Also anybody running it is capable of gaining more hitpoints or damage or whatever because they can use better plates of damage mods. Just a thought. Make the CR cost more to fit and also lower the damage of it just slightly. /facepalm You realize that this would wreck the Matari whose low resource suits NEED those fittings . What the hell are we supposed to use ?!! Harsh language ? Master Smurf wrote: And once done what can Minmatar suit user do to compete? Oh yeah - move .2 m/s quicker. Break our foes will by clogging up their sight with loads and loads of corpses ? No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2014.05.17 16:55:00 - [116] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Think the cloak needs fixing first, but yeah the CR needs an adjustment. Eh. I get to where I'm not even afraid of it anymore. People who think it's OP don't realize that if you have a logi with proto scans, or if you bring a Gal Logi or Cal Scout in your squad to a PC battle, that cloak is going to get scanned. I really don't think it's as much of an issue as people think it is. Not exactly. I am gal login with scanners to 5. Only the proto scanner of 30K ism can pick a scout and the scout is cheaper than the scanner. Than you have terrible cool down time. The issue is that it is not a cloak and is invisibility mod. I spent a full game trying to find a way to counter the cloak and it is impossible if you are not a scout. Have inn mind that most of the people play pubs with small and not balanced squads. I don't think that it is right the cloaked scouts to get advantage in pubs or solo
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2014.05.18 10:20:00 - [117] - Quote Cardio Therapy wrote: Not exactly. I am gal login with scanners to 5. Only the proto scanner of 30K ism can pick a scout and the scout is cheaper than the scanner. Than you have terrible cool down time. The issue is that it is not a cloak and is invisibility mod. I spent a full game trying to find a way to counter the cloak and it is impossible if you are not a scout. Have inn mind that most of the people play pubs with small and not balanced squads. I don't think that it is right the cloaked scouts to get advantage in pubs or solo Scanning chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvYSJ6FRJlihdHRWMFFxUDVPbzZPVTdjZmNwR2loYXc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 Most of the reason I picked Gal Logi is because you can light up the non-Gallente scouts that don't stack dampeners or don't have their cloak activated even without the Focused, and trust me there are a lot of brick tanked scouts running around, even the top tier ones like Nyain San. But since I haven't played as a medium suit in a while, now I'm starting to feel the pain of the cloaky shotgunner, and yeah it is OP as hell. Medium suits definitely need a buff. Especially assault. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 94	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:12:00 - [118] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: But since I haven't played as a medium suit in a while, now I'm starting to feel the pain of the cloaky shotgunner, and yeah it is OP as hell. Medium suits definitely need a buff. Especially assault. Cloaky shotgunners are not "op as hell". Firing whilst still cloaked = op. Make cloaks have to fully deactivate before firing. Armour mods allowing Gal scouts to brick tank enough to outshine mediums = op. Nerf plates (discussion currently ongoing in feedback). Gal and Cal scouts outshining Amarr and Min. Maybe go with I-Shayz-I's idea of changing the bonuses to a bonus to modules rather than straight damp and scan bonuses. Logis are fine, except for maybe a small improvement to active scanners (I think they were over nerfed). Maybe assaults need a small improvement, but probably not after the proposed changes, particularly the armour ones.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:23:00 - [119] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: But since I haven't played as a medium suit in a while, now I'm starting to feel the pain of the cloaky shotgunner, and yeah it is OP as hell. Medium suits definitely need a buff. Especially assault. Cloaky shotgunners are not "op as hell". Firing whilst still cloaked = op. Make cloaks have to fully deactivate before firing. Armour mods allowing Gal scouts to brick tank enough to outshine mediums = op. Nerf plates (discussion currently ongoing in feedback). Gal and Cal scouts outshining Amarr and Min. Maybe go with I-Shayz-I's idea of changing the bonuses to a bonus to modules rather than straight damp and scan bonuses. Logis are fine, except for maybe a small improvement to active scanners (I think they were over nerfed). Maybe assaults need a small improvement, but probably not after the proposed changes, particularly the armour ones. Nerfing plates sounds like a HORRIBLE idea, I hope that NEVER happens. Increasing TTK would have been a total failure if this happens. To be honest I think Scout HP is fine, and if anything it should be taken out of their base HP or dominant (shield/armor) module slot. Logis are fine? Basically point and shoot at a Logi, and he's dead faster than you can kill a scout. Listen, I was a Min Logi back before ALL LOGIS TURNED INTO THE MIN LOGI, AND TRUST ME WE'RE WEAK AS HELL. Though I will admit that changing scout HP will fix the medium suit weakness problem. And Minmatar is just being outshined because they ALWAYS get outshined. Doesn't matter if it's the scout. People who aren't idiots and realize that the "duct tape" thing is meaningless, just might realize holy ** a Min Scout can hack an objective in literally 2 seconds right under everyone's nose with a cloak, some dampeners and code breakers. I was in a PC battle, and pretty much the entire time I was a heavy sitting on a hack panel guarding it. I turned the other way for an INSTANT to reload, and before I even saw the blue letter flashing it was hacked. Tell me that's not OP and you're full of **. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 94	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:47:00 - [120] - Quote Plate stacking being OP is one of the main root causes of imbalance in the game. It imbalances scouts. It imbalances weapons. It imbalances mediums. It imbalances heavies. It imbalances proto suits in general. It reduces fitting variety by encouraging brick tanking. This is something that the majority of posters seem to agree with to some extent. I am not talking about reducing the amount of hp given per plate. Currently the most popular suggested tweaks are changing them to a %hp increase thus preventing scouts having too high hp and encouraging the use of ferroscale; and introducing stacking penalties so that people will try reppers instead of all plates and a rep hive. Have a look at the thread in the feedback section, there are a lot of other suggestions. If Gallente scouts and mediums both only used 2 plates rather than 4 the medium suit's hp advantage would be greater. I use a min logi as well. The proposed changes to plates would have little effect on them. In theory it should help shield tankers such as minmatar.

Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2014.05.18 12:52:00 - [121] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Plate stacking being OP is one of the main root causes of imbalance in the game. It imbalances scouts. It imbalances weapons. It imbalances mediums. It imbalances heavies. It imbalances proto suits in general. It reduces fitting variety by encouraging brick tanking. This is something that the majority of posters seem to agree with to some extent. I am not talking about reducing the amount of hp given per plate. Currently the most popular suggested tweaks are changing them to a %hp increase, preventing scouts having too high hp and encouraging the use of ferroscale; and introducing stacking penalties so that people will try reppers instead of all plates and a rep hive. Have a look at the thread in the feedback section, there are a lot of other suggestions. If Gallente scouts and mediums both only used 2 plates rather than 4 the medium suit's hp advantage would be greater. I use a min logi as well. The proposed changes to plates would have little effect on them. In theory it should help shield tankers such as minmatar. No, just no. I already pleaded with CCP Rattati not to do this. All this will do is decrease TTK, mutilate the already bad NPE, and imbalance the ENTIRE GAME. You people are crazy and I just do not understand it. This is NOT a game where you shoot someone, and it instakills them. This is a game with futuristic technology suits that can withstand battle conditions. Whatever. If they make it into another 1.7 split second killfest after doing all that work on rebalancing light weapons I will just BIOMASS. Buff shields, don't nerf armor. What the hell is wrong with you people? GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 95	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:05:00 - [122] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: No, just no. I already pleaded with CCP Rattati not to do this. All this will do is decrease TTK, mutilate the already bad NPE, and imbalance the ENTIRE GAME. You people are crazy and I just do not understand it. This is NOT a game where you shoot someone, and it instakills them. This is a game with futuristic technology suits that can withstand battle conditions. Whatever. If they make it into another 1.7 split second killfest after doing all that work on rebalancing light weapons I will just BIOMASS. Buff shields, don't nerf armor. What the hell is wrong with you people? I think you are worrying about this too much. The suggested changes would only affect the TTK for plate wearing scout suits and any suits using more than 2 plates (except for heavies, who would probably have equal or more hp than now). How will this be bad for the NPE? Most of the people stacking more than 2 plates are protostompers. Nearly everyone agrees that a scout with 700 armour is a problem.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:07:00 - [123] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I think you are worrying about this too much. I hope the hell so. This forum is giving me a headache, TTYL GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
skippy678 The Phoenix Federation Caps and Mercs 2474	Posted - 2014.05.18 14:15:00 - [124] - Quote PAXTON HAILFIRE wrote: No, I think it was killed after 1.7. I'm not a good enough player to get in that sweet zone. It happens by accident. But, I can melt a heavy with a duvolle if I'm in it. Thats a pro weapon. GEK, blah. Rather run a standard RR. The ARs niche is too tight. I run heavy now, or Commando with an SCR, CR assault, or RR combo of some sort. ARs, I run because I have like a hundred sitting on a shelf. I kill more with REs on my logi than with my AR. Use it to bait em in, lol. I think what you missed is I can aim the AR. I'm personally not as good with a CR. The assault rifle sure needs some work. I hope they get around to making some changes still. If givin the choice I would go in this order: -Combat rifle -scrambler rifle -rail rifle -assault rifle I remember when the AR was super OP and that want a very fun period for dust. My Youtube Lvl. 2 Forum Warrior Follow:@skippy6gaming #BetaVet
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 277	Posted - 2014.05.18 20:29:00 - [125] - Quote Rail seems balanced currently Combat Rifle is OP, it should do best at close range, meh at mid range, and a joke at long range. Currently just yesterday I was sniped basically by a CR at 55m with full 500+ HP but at that range it drained my HP like it was paper with like half or less then half of it's clip. AR was balanced before it was nerfed all it needed was just a little less range, now it's near worthless.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 18	Posted - 2014.05.18 22:01:00 - [126] - Quote I don't know why everybody complains more about the CR than the RR. I'm using both in proto with both prof lvl 4 and I must say that the RR Kalaakiota is better than the ACR Six Kin (even though this one is still extremely efficient at short-mid range). The aim of the RR is perfect, it's super powerful and have no noticable recoil. The CR needs a little nerf (just a little one CCP! Dont screw it like every other weapons you tried to "balance" before.. poor flaylock..) but the range of the RR is absolutely insane! It is the one who really need to be balance. 1.8 didn't change a **** about it^^ My Duvolle with prof lvl 5 and all maxed out still doesnt reach those 2 beast.
Fuht Bucker A Little Bit of Downs 1	Posted - 2014.05.18 23:01:00 - [127] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I don't know why everybody complains more about the CR than the RR. I'm using both in proto with both prof lvl 4 and I must say that the RR Kalaakiota is better than the ACR Six Kin (even though this one is still extremely efficient at short-mid range). The aim of the RR is perfect, it's super powerful and have no noticable recoil. The CR needs a little nerf (just a little one CCP! Dont screw it like every other weapons you tried to "balance" before.. poor flaylock..) but the range of the RR is absolutely insane! It is the one who really need to be balance. 1.8 didn't change a **** about it^^ My Duvolle with prof lvl 5 and all maxed out still doesnt reach those 2 beast. I agree
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2081	Posted - 2014.05.18 23:07:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: They're both on our to do list to look at. For Legion no doubt. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Enkidu Camuel Ahrendee Mercenaries 202	Posted - 2014.05.18 23:11:00 - [129] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I don't know why everybody complains more about the CR than the RR. I'm using both in proto with both prof lvl 4 and I must say that the RR Kalaakiota is better than the ACR Six Kin (even though this one is still extremely efficient at short-mid range). The aim of the RR is perfect, it's super powerful and have no noticable recoil. The CR needs a little nerf (just a little one CCP! Dont screw it like every other weapons you tried to "balance" before.. poor flaylock..) but the range of the RR is absolutely insane! It is the one who really need to be balance. 1.8 didn't change a **** about it^^ My Duvolle with prof lvl 5 and all maxed out still doesnt reach those 2 beast. Because your Duvolle is meant for close range while the RR is long range, the aim of the RR should be perfect because it's a long range weapon and it's working as intended doing alpha damage, the one tweak it should have it's a slight increased recoil while hip firing (like the TAR) the Six Kin wins against a RR all the time. Once the AR gets a little love, just go close quarters against anyone to destroy him cuz that's the kind of weapon you're using, but don't come crying if you get destroyed by a RR or a CR in a long range battle cuz you're always going to lose. a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ PRAISE HELIX a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ
Cee Zet Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion 13	Posted - 2014.05.19 14:39:00 - [130] - Quote The AR is the weapon, i spend the most SP into. After 1.7 i dont use them cause against RR and CR i see no land. After 1.8 and the rebalancing i use it more often. For me the TAC AR has not so many fields of using them, but i will use them more often against Heavys. You are out of dangerous range of the HMG and do much damage in short time. If the Heavy doesnt went back behind cover he will die. If he runs towards me, he will die. The STD AR are also good for fittings cause it need not too much ressources (iam Amarr-Logi, so i need every damd CPU and PG). Strong enough to hold the enemy back and cheap enough to fit other equipment. Okay, the AR isnt the Jack of all trades Weapon like after Uprising, and he definetly needs some love (just a bit higher RoF) but he has her/his(?) assignment. I know there are other weapons with more punch and better stats, but i like the way it works. Like the ScR and (Hell i love it) THE LAZER-RIFFLE with lvl 5 Amarr-Assault. (RR is not my weapon, i dont like the sound and the charge-up-time) If you like it you like it and if not, there will be many weapons to try out. Choose that one at that time you like, for the sry, for my language, english isnt first.

Buster Friently Rosen Association 2410	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:47:00 - [131] - Quote If you are going to seriously look at correcting the Dust weapon issues, you need to keep one thing in mind: Weapon Diversity. A weapon that no one uses is a problem. A weapon that everyone uses is a problem. Take this as your mantra.
The-Errorist 690	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:55:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I agree with a lot of what other's have said the rifles' roles and traits should be like. For the base variants the the plasma, scrambler, rail and combat rifle, these are the roles and traits I think they must have: Plasma (Assault) Rifle: Best assault rifle for CQC engagements. * Medium-high hipfire accuracy * Lowest ADS accuracy * Highest damage drop-off at range * Highest damage per minute Combat Rifle: Best assault rifle for close-to-mid range engagements against multiple enemies. * Medium hipfire accuracy * 2nd lowest ADS accuracy * Highest RoF * 2nd highest damage drop-off at range * Lowest damage per mag * 2nd highest damage per minute. Scrambler Rifle: Best assault rifle for 1 on 1 engagements at mid-to-long range where you want to quickly snipe down your enemy. * High ADS / Skillshot accuracy * 2nd lowest damage drop-off at range * High damage per shot * Highest damage per mag * Highest heat cost per shot * Highest damage per second, but 2nd lowest damage per minute Rail Rifle: Best assault rifle for sustained long range engagements. * Highest ADS accuracy * Lowest hipfire accuracy * Lowest RoF * Lowest damage drop-off at range * 2nd Highest damage per mag * High damage per shot * Lowest damage per minute I also think they should all have overheat and the CR needs a balanced damage profile like -5% shield +5% to armor instead of -5/+10%.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2014.05.20 05:10:00 - [133] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I don't know why everybody complains more about the CR than the RR. I'm using both in proto with both prof lvl 4 and I must say that the RR Kalaakiota is better than the ACR Six Kin (even though this one is still extremely efficient at short-mid range).. because it's nowhere near as OP as hell it used to be GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2014.05.20 05:12:00 - [134] - Quote Enkidu Camuel wrote: Because your Duvolle is meant for close range No. The AR's sweet spot is medium range, and the only good thing it'll do at CQC is kill a sloppy scout. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 177	Posted - 2014.05.20 05:34:00 - [135] - Quote Are you using a KBM or DS3. I know from personal experience that the AR is worthless with a KBM setup All empires fall. We'll be watching, we'll be waiting. And our patience has born great fruits.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 07:59:00 - [136] - Quote The-Errorist: I think you miss something here. The AR is a medium range weapon which just need a bit more damage or fire rate to be efficient AND the CR is the CQC weapon to destroy enemy at close-mid range super easily but with a short clip size! Velociraptor: Imo, I did see a little difference after 1.8, but I can't say "it's nowhere near OP as hell as it used to be". It's still very close to what it used to be and can melt down enemies in CQC pretty easily (especialy heavys). I think a good thing with the RR would be to decrease it's efficienty at close range (kinda like the Laser but not as much), to put a half second or something like that between each shot of CR, and to increase the range and the damage or fire rate of the AR. This way assault weapon will be well balanced I think. The ScR is to me perfectly balanced, it's hard to play but it's rewarding !
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:05:00 - [137] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: (especialy heavys). I think a good thing with the RR would be to decrease it's efficienty at close range Hahaha, I DARE you to come at my heavy with a RR at CQC. I kill advanced assault RR users with my basic HMG all the time man. And they already did that. That's why it's not OP anymore. It used to be good at CQC and now it's ****. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:08:00 - [138] - Quote I kill heavys one after another with my RR Kalaakiota at CQC everyday with my proto just by strafing man ^^ Maybe it's because of prof 4 and 3 damagers but it's more powerful than any other weapon with same passives/mods in the game!
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:10:00 - [139] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: I kill heavys one after another with my RR Kalaakiota at CQC everyday with my proto just by strafing man ^^ Maybe it's because of prof 4 and 3 damagers but it's more powerful than any other weapon with same passives/mods in the game! No it's not. I don't feel like searching for the thread that disproves you, but the DPS is NOT better than the CR or even ScR. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 292	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:10:00 - [140] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. So, pretty much we should expect this in EVE Legion sometime around 2018? "LASER-FOCUSED" R.I.P. Dust 5/14 (We Finally Figured Out What it Means!) 90 Day AUR Refunds! Call 1-800-345-SONY

Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:16:00 - [141] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: I kill heavys one after another with my RR Kalaakiota at CQC everyday with my proto just by strafing man ^^ Maybe it's because of prof 4 and 3 damagers but it's more powerful than any other weapon with same passives/mods in the game! No it's not. I don't feel like searching for the thread that disproves you, but the DPS is NOT better than the CR or even ScR. Mmh ok. It must be a feeling that I have, all the time I'm using it, it's a rampage! It's the easiest rifle of DUST to have lots of kills without risking too much (despite the stats that may not show it).
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2014.05.20 08:20:00 - [142] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Mmh ok. It must be a feeling that I have, all the time I'm using it, it's a rampage! It's the easiest rifle of DUST to have lots of kills without risking too much (despite the stats that may not show it). Don't get me wrong. In the right hands they are deadly, and are probably good against Gal heavies in spite of the 15% rail resist. Most importantly they are the only (virtually) weakness Amarr heavies have except for explosives. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1074	Posted - 2014.05.20 11:21:00 - [143] - Quote The CR is pretty harsh, if your accurate ... The RoF can be a blessing and a curse... But seriously why all the QQ on Gal AR ??? I run a toxin BPO without even L1 Gal AR and it works fine, you guys suck.... why not BUFF more of the rifles you cry about on here when ever TimeOfTheMonth comes along, all of you need to sort out your gun-game ...... realistically the regular CR and ScR need tweaks to lower DMG output, the CR's DPS.. The ScRs spammable high DMG... job done -_- 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 78	Posted - 2014.05.20 11:22:00 - [144] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The CR is pretty harsh, if your accurate ... The RoF can be a blessing and a curse... But seriously why all the QQ on Gal AR ??? I run a toxin BPO without even L1 Gal AR and it works fine, you guys suck.... why not BUFF more of the rifles you cry about on here when ever TimeOfTheMonth comes along, all of you need to sort out your gun-game ...... realistically the regular CR and ScR need tweaks to lower DMG output, the CR's DPS.. The ScRs spammable high DMG... job done -_- because I can't use a Duvolle in a PC without looking and performing like an idiot GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Aoena Rays Bragian Order Amarr Empire 486	Posted - 2014.05.20 11:58:00 - [145] - Quote Flaylocks yes, more than AR's really. Story of your life
The-Errorist 690	Posted - 2014.05.20 20:18:00 - [146] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: The-Errorist: I think you miss something here. The AR is a medium range weapon which just need a bit more damage or fire rate to be efficient AND the CR is the CQC weapon to destroy enemy at close-mid range super easily but with a short clip size! Velociraptor: Imo, I did see a little difference after 1.8, but I can't say "it's nowhere near OP as hell as it used to be". It's still very close to what it used to be and can melt down enemies in CQC pretty easily (especialy heavys). I think a good thing with the RR would be to decrease it's efficienty at close range (kinda like the Laser but not as much), to put a half second or something like that between each shot of CR, and to increase the range and the damage or fire rate of the AR. This way assault weapon will be well balanced I think. The ScR is to me perfectly balanced, it's hard to play but it's rewarding ! According to http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ the optimal, effective range it has, and lore, it's definitely a close range weapon. The mid range weapons are the scrambler(medium-to-long) and combat rifle(close-to-medium). I do agree though with the AR needs more damage and or firerate, as I said in my post, it should have the highest damage per minute MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 21:59:00 - [147] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: The CR is pretty harsh, if your accurate ... The RoF can be a blessing and a curse... But seriously why all the QQ on Gal AR ??? I run a toxin BPO without even L1 Gal AR and it works fine, you guys suck.... why not BUFF more of the rifles you cry about on here when ever TimeOfTheMonth comes along, all of you need to sort out your gun-game ...... realistically the regular CR and ScR need tweaks to lower DMG output, the CR's DPS.. The ScRs spammable high DMG... job done -_- How can you be so arrogant and provocative? We're not saying that the AR can't be use! We're saying that it's worthless compared to the CR, the RR and the ScR. Read messages before talking and giving stupid advices please.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1074	Posted - 2014.05.21 15:27:00 - [148] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: TheD1CK wrote: The CR is pretty harsh, if your accurate ... The RoF can be a blessing and a curse... But seriously why all the QQ on Gal AR ??? I run a toxin BPO without even L1 Gal AR and it works fine, you guys suck.... why not BUFF more of the rifles you cry about on here when ever TimeOfTheMonth comes along, all of you need to sort out your gun-game ...... realistically the regular CR and ScR need tweaks to lower DMG output, the CR's DPS.. The ScRs spammable high DMG... job done -_- How can you be so arrogant and provocative? We're not saying that the AR can't be use! We're saying that it's worthless compared to the CR, the RR and the ScR. Read messages before talking and giving stupid advices please. Lol yeah reading the waves of tears gets old.. stupid advices are what Dust was built upon 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 636	Posted - 2014.05.21 15:39:00 - [149] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: I've spent just over 2 mil on Assault Rifles. I have level 1 combat rifle, not even ammo or reload, just the basic combat rifle. And I might as well use it instead of a GEK. The ammo will probably last about as much time on my logi as my level 2 or 3 (I think) AR ammo, and I can pretty much guarantee it's more powerful. Hell I bet the RS-90 does more DPS than the Duvolle, but it'll be a while before I consider skilling into the CR. Still gotta get some use out of my officer weapons I've never been able to use. Edit: Oh, not to mention it's probably more accurate than my "sharpshooting" AR too. i have prof 5 ar. i havnt used a non bpo ar in months. no point.
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA 7	Posted - 2014.05.21 22:52:00 - [150] - Quote After thinking about this issue for a while now I changed my mind about nerfing the combat rifle. The reason is simply that nerfing sucks in general. Let me explain. When you find a weapon module or set up that you like you spend a lot of time isk and sp into it. You build your character around it and you tweak your skills and tactics around it too. When your weapon gets nerfed it ruins your whole game. It is very frustrating. Its ok if that happens once but, in this game it happens too often. I still think that the combat rifle when compared to the AR is a bit overpowered but I also don't think it is super overpowered. I rather it didn't get touch than have it nerfed too much. The solution is simply to make the AR a little bit better. In short the best solution i.e. the one that will make the most players happy is. #1 leave the combat rifle alone. #2 improve the assault rifle. All other weapons seem pretty balance.

Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:52:00 - [151] - Quote In light of the Alpha hotfix, I declare this thread King of Threads. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 1929	Posted - 2014.05.24 03:02:00 - [152] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. Nerf nerf nerf... always the answer with you guys. You have a big cap for numbers in this game... Why is it always about small numbers? Just remove the nerfs you guys have wasted hmmm? 4 months? 6? On Nerfing and tweaking an assault rifle that was fine bar a few morons that didn't understand Racial variants have been sitting in assets unreleased since 2009 stopping the balance. my gawd... you give 5 people the power of all the numbers and it will goto their head.
Espartoi Orkz Clan 197	Posted - 2014.05.24 03:09:00 - [153] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: I've spent just over 2 mil on Assault Rifles. I have level 1 combat rifle, not even ammo or reload, just the basic combat rifle. And I might as well use it instead of a GEK. The ammo will probably last about as much time on my logi as my level 2 or 3 (I think) AR ammo, and I can pretty much guarantee it's more powerful. Hell I bet the RS-90 does more DPS than the Duvolle, but it'll be a while before I consider skilling into the CR. Still gotta get some use out of my officer weapons I've never been able to use. Edit: Oh, not to mention it's probably more accurate than my "sharpshooting" AR too. Hmm Get Good. 'Ere We Go: Orkz in Dust.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2014.05.24 04:03:00 - [154] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Hmm Get Good. I guarantee you I'd whip your ass with an AR. Been doing it for 9 months. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Tyrunis Bloodstone Anubis Prime Syndicate 31	Posted - 2014.05.24 04:05:00 - [155] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Espartoi wrote: Hmm Get Good. I guarantee you I'd whip your ass with an AR. Been doing it for 9 months. Good, Good! Let the hate flow through you!!
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2014.05.24 04:08:00 - [156] - Quote Tyrunis Bloodstone wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Espartoi wrote: Hmm Get Good. I guarantee you I'd whip your ass with an AR. Been doing it for 9 months. Good, Good! Let the hate flow through you!! Pff. I probably even saw ROTJ before you. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
End is Near Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 84	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:27:00 - [157] - Quote Blue tag..... oooooo ahhhhhhhhh


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