DUST Search - This is how bad the Assault Rifle is

Baal Omniscient wrote:

CCP Logibro wrote:

Jenova Rhapsodos wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at?

This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls.

That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at.

One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions.

The way I've always thought it should be:

SCR - The Tactical Sniper Rifle

The scrambler rifle is the king of skill shots. You can tactically place your high damage shots from it's large clip of long range rounds, even charging them up, and do mega-bonus damage from head shots. In return for these bonuses, it overheats... honestly it should also suffer from a greatly increased recoil, especially it's charged shot. The point of this is to make it difficult to use up close. The higher the damage per round, the greater the recoil should be. This needs to basically be a tactical sniper rifle. As for the damage v armor/shields, I have no issue with any of the weapons.

AR - The Bullet Hose

The assault rifle is the master of CQC. You should be able to out gun any rifle 1v1 when not snuck up on when in a <10m fight. It should get bonus damage when in CQC, be mediocre at mid range and it should be terrible at long range. It's spread may need to be tweaked up to compensate, but this would also likely make it even better for CQC hipfire. Possibly a ROF increase since high ROF is sort of what CQC is all about, but drop the overall damage to keep it's bonuses from making it too good out of it's element. Basically the AR needs to be the ACR with better damage at under 10m and a slightly reduced ROF, spray and pray all the way.

RR - The Ranged Bruiser

The rail rifle is a ranged bruiser, basically having a toned down version of the AR's CQC damage bonus but at all ranged, but in return having a very low ROF and a meaningful charge-up time. The low ROF and meaningful charge time means even though you have a full auto weapon that does massive damage at most ranges, you have to make every round count. If the enemy uses a lot of cover, you should be in big trouble because your weapon is meant to take out people trying to close in on your position from across open spaces. (sidearms are there for a reason) Basically since the AR needs to be a spray and pray, this one needs to be a weapon where every bullet counts.

CR - The Thorn in Your Side

The combat rifle is an ambush weapon, made for guerrilla warfare. It's made to get hits in and get out. The high ROF bursts are perfect for this, but the delay between bursts is far too short. It needs higher damage bursts, but they need to have a delay about as long, if not longer than the Allotek burst's. Honestly for this weapon to be perfect as an ambush weapon, add in this delay and make all damage done by the CR take longer to regenerate. I know it'll never happen, but that's what would make it perfect for hit-and-run tactics. Higher damage bursts, really long burst delay, damage takes longer to recover from.

In short, to be perfect:

SCR-Monster long range, heavy headshot, monster recoil, basically tactical sniper. BAD cqc, GOOD mid, AAA long
AR-ACR with damage profile change+damage bonus under 10m+900-1000ish ROF. AAA cqc, FAIR mid, BAD/NO long
RR-All range heavy hitter, bad v cover users, every bullet counts. GOOD cqc, GOOD mid, OK long
CR-Hit&run weapon, damage takes longer to recover, long burst delay, high damage burst. FAIR cqc, AAA mid, FAIR long

Basically every rifle should have a weakness that you should have to rely on your sidearm to compensate for, and on that point... every race's sidearm should have traits that somewhat make up for it's rifle's weaknesses. It only makes sense that a race would see it's technology's drawbacks and compensate for them. Armor/shield damage excluded, as that is what separates the races to begin with.

My 0.02isk. Not sure anyone cares at this point what my opinion is since I've quit, but figured I'd share the way I always thought it would be best done. Good luck.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 99	Posted - 2014.05.15 16:02:00 - [1] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: For AR: 1. Undo damage nerf 2. Change operation skill bonus to something else There you go, it has comparable dps to current combat rifle but is more restricted to CQC. On CR simply increase delay between each burst slightly and it will be balanced. And Assault CR variant? Which is the actual problem gun, IMO. The ease of use of the ACT makes it the go to gun; CR takes thought and timing (well, a little bit of it) where ACR glares in your direction and melts you. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 107	Posted - 2014.05.16 05:50:00 - [2] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. The way I've always thought it should be: SCR - The Tactical Sniper Rifle The scrambler rifle is the king of skill shots. You can tactically place your high damage shots from it's large clip of long range rounds, even charging them up, and do mega-bonus damage from head shots. In return for these bonuses, it overheats... honestly it should also suffer from a greatly increased recoil, especially it's charged shot. The point of this is to make it difficult to use up close. The higher the damage per round, the greater the recoil should be. This needs to basically be a tactical sniper rifle. As for the damage v armor/shields, I have no issue with any of the weapons. AR - The Bullet Hose The assault rifle is the master of CQC. You should be able to out gun any rifle 1v1 when not snuck up on when in a <10m fight. It should get bonus damage when in CQC, be mediocre at mid range and it should be terrible at long range. It's spread may need to be tweaked up to compensate, but this would also likely make it even better for CQC hipfire. Possibly a ROF increase since high ROF is sort of what CQC is all about, but drop the overall damage to keep it's bonuses from making it too good out of it's element. Basically the AR needs to be the ACR with better damage at under 10m and a slightly reduced ROF, spray and pray all the way. RR - The Ranged Bruiser The rail rifle is a ranged bruiser, basically having a toned down version of the AR's CQC damage bonus but at all ranged, but in return having a very low ROF and a meaningful charge-up time. The low ROF and meaningful charge time means even though you have a full auto weapon that does massive damage at most ranges, you have to make every round count. If the enemy uses a lot of cover, you should be in big trouble because your weapon is meant to take out people trying to close in on your position from across open spaces. (sidearms are there for a reason) Basically since the AR needs to be a spray and pray, this one needs to be a weapon where every bullet counts. CR - The Thorn in Your Side The combat rifle is an ambush weapon, made for guerrilla warfare. It's made to get hits in and get out. The high ROF bursts are perfect for this, but the delay between bursts is far too short. It needs higher damage bursts, but they need to have a delay about as long, if not longer than the Allotek burst's. Honestly for this weapon to be perfect as an ambush weapon, add in this delay and make all damage done by the CR take longer to regenerate. I know it'll never happen, but that's what would make it perfect for hit-and-run tactics. Higher damage bursts, really long burst delay, damage takes longer to recover from. In short, to be perfect: SCR-Monster long range, heavy headshot, monster recoil, basically tactical sniper. BAD cqc, GOOD mid, AAA long AR-ACR with damage profile change+damage bonus under 10m+900-1000ish ROF. AAA cqc, FAIR mid, BAD/NO long RR-All range heavy hitter, bad v cover users, every bullet counts. GOOD cqc, GOOD mid, OK long CR-Hit&run weapon, damage takes longer to recover, long burst delay, high damage burst. FAIR cqc, AAA mid, FAIR long Basically every rifle should have a weakness that you should have to rely on your sidearm to compensate for, and on that point... every race's sidearm should have traits that somewhat make up for it's rifle's weaknesses. It only makes sense that a race would see it's technology's drawbacks and compensate for them. Armor/shield damage excluded, as that is what separates the races to begin with. My 0.02isk. Not sure anyone cares at this point what my opinion is since I've quit, but figured I'd share the way I always thought it would be best done. Good luck. I appreciate your opinion. I'm in agreement with you in most respects; the problem with those zones of efficacy is that the map design means the AR would always reign supreme. Our issues are deeper than simple buff-nerfing. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1