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This is how bad the Assault Rifle is

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Scheherazade VII SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 509	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:31:00 - [61] - Quote of course the combat rifle is OP that's why when you face corps like outer heaven every single one of them is in proto scout armour tanked proto combat rifle they strafe and move so ******* fast you can't even hit them. I've no idea why I still use the CRD or CRW. it's a shame how pretty much every known corp just spams armour tanked proto scouts with proto CR. it's like people can't actually play the game unless they have the most OP gear possible. why play a game with so much diversity if all youre going to do is use the same thing? do these corps have such little faith in their skill that they constantly have to switch to the FOTM? Permanent Beta Tester \|\| MAG Vet, SVER Scrub For Life
Funkmaster Whale Ancient Exiles. 2255	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:39:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. It's really hard to put a strict classification on them because, like you mentioned, they do kind of overlap each other regardless of what the guns' stats tell you. If I had to put it into strict terms, I would classify ScR and RR as more long-range engagement while CR and AR as short-range engagement. Now, the ScR and RR still certainly have awesome CQC potential so it doesn't really stand entirely true. That's not really an issue though, since a weapon shouldn't be completely inadequate outside of its "intended" role. The bigger issue is the fact that you have guns like the AR that's completely inadequate in almost every way compared to its counterpart the CR. Simply put, the AR should by-far be the best CQC brawler rifle. It should sit just under the HMG as far as something you don't want to turn the corner to see. I've mentioned this before in other threads, the reason the CR is so good is not just its DPS, it's the damage profile. The -5% / +10% shield / armor is probably the best damage profile in the game when you consider the meta. Usually you don't see shield values higher than ~500 unless you're encountering a Sentinel. You DO usually encounter very high armor values that are >500. What this translates to is the CR dishing out really good DPS against shields and then incredible DPS vs armor. The AR suffers from this in that it can tear through shields, yeah, but it really lacks in getting through armor. Considering the influx of Heavies in 1.8, having a rifle that can't take down a Heavy makes it all but useless in my eyes. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 682	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:40:00 - [63] - Quote Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. IWS says the stunlock issue is "being looked into" and (oddly) "it isn't a bug". Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2089315#post2089315 It certainly seems that the higher the RoF, the more a weapon benefits from this ... non-bug. * Glares at HMG * * Polishes CR *
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2910	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:41:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. The role would be 'Assault Rifle'. They should overlap each other shouldn't they? In this case... I would say look at any modern warfare style shooter for inspiration. In COD/BF you are pretty much shooting the exact same guns, except they feel fairly different and have quite different styles while overlapping and always being an assault rifle. You just need to balance strengths vs weaknesses and then tweak little bits here and there until its balanced. Rail: Long Range Low RoF Mid-Low DPS High DPC Combat Rifle: Mid Range High RoF Mid DPS (currently the DPS of this weapon is absurdly high) Low DPC Scrambler Rifle (Pulse Laser Rifle in reality... they don't scramble anything) Mid Range Mid 'Averaged' RoF which High burst Mid-High DPS High DPC Suffers significant overheat issues Assault Rifle (Plasma Rifle) Low Range Mid-High RoF High DPS Mid-High DPC These are the 'styles' that each has tried to tend towards - however... they haven't ever been truly balanced (although close to balanced in some ways while suffering gross imbalance in other ways. The only factor I would personally want to add is overheat to plasma and rail weaponry. Pretty much as an analogue to capacitor usage in eve. However... in EVE each turret has ammo types which can help shatter some of these rigid 'roles' and bring more customization into the game.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 682	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:04:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Assault Rifle * Unrivaled in Close Quarter Engagements * Excellent hipfire accuracy * Rapid damage drop-off at range Combat Rifle * Well Suited for Close-to-Mid Range Engagements * High ADS accuracy * Decent hipfire accuracy Scrambler Rifle * Well Suited for Mid-to-Long Range Engagements * High ADS / Skillshot accuracy * Low hipfire accuracy Rail Rifle * Well Suited for Long Range Engagements * High ADS accuracy * Low hipfire accuracy Laser Rifle * Unrivaled in Long Ranged Engagements * Pinpoint accuracy at range; zero efficacy up close * Consistently beats all other Rifles at long range
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4156	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:06:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. You don't nerf one thing and buff its rival. That's a double nerf and would create the same problem in reverse. The CR damage is fine, leave it alone. The AR needs a damage buff, but it also requires a major accuracy decrease, especially from aim down sights. It should operate the same way the Assault Rifle from Halo does. Major spread, high DPS weapon.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3059	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:09:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. buff the rate of fire from the AR up to 900. This will make it the king of close quarters and justify the fitting costs over the combat rifle. And with that a nerf to the CR would not be necessary.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 12	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:18:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. rail rifle: long range low rate of fire high damage at range low damage at short range very low hip fire accuracy scrambler rifle: mid-long range rate of fire variable (like it is now) moderate high damage at long range moderate low damage at close range low hip fire accuracy combat rifle: mid-close range relatively high Rate of fire low damage at long range high damage at mid to close moderate low hip fire accuracy assault rifle: close-mid range high rate of fire very low damage at long range very high damage at close range moderate hip fire accuracy
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3350	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:22:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. - Plasma Rifle should be the highest damage but with the shortest range. Fully automatic. - Combat Rifle has second highest damage and a more versatile range profile, but fires in bursts. (Busts should be handled like the Burst HMG, not resetting with each pull of the trigger as the CR does now.) - Pulse Laser Rifle (Scrambler) is a long range semi automatic rifle with a charged shot option for a high Alpha opener. Scrambler rile has heat buildup and overheat as a balancing factor. - Rail Rifle is a very long range automatic rifle with an initial charge up time. From top to bottom of the list the DPS goes down and the range goes up. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 512	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:38:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I've had this on my mind for a while, so thanks for asking: AR: Style: Sprint up to an enemy, blast him and his buddy while standing mostly still, retreat for repairs. Niche: Defeats any other rifle at short ranges. Is inferior to all other rifles from medium range range out. - Highest DPS - Highest damage per magazine - Shortest range, short fall-off - Large hip-fire accuracy penalty from movement - Low ammo reserves RR: Style: Whittle down hostiles from range indefinitely. Niche: Defeats any other rifle at long range. Looses against any other rifle at short ranges. - Longest range - Lowest DPS - Longest full-auto duration from full clip SCR: Style: Get out of cover, aim carefully, zap one enemy with the almighty alpha damage of the only righteous god, get back into cover until rifle has cooled down. Low mobility combat at it's peak. Niche: Defeats any other rifle in a 1v1 situation if the first short connects. Looses any continued fight. - High alpha, long cool down, low long-term DPS - Medium range, short fall-of - Low hip-fire accuracy - Very large ammo reserves CR: Style: High mobility combat at short to medium ranges. Kill one straggler, get back to cover to reload. Repeat from a different angle. Niche: Out-DPSes a SCR/RR at short range, out-ranges an AR at medium ranges. - DPS between RR and AR - Optimal range like AR, effective range like SCR - Low hip fire accuracy penalty from movement - Low damage per magazine - Fast reload speed I hope this helps.

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 863	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:46:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Don't do it! They're just using us for Legion research! CCP continues to make the wrong choices, one choice at a time. aka Legion.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 12	Posted - 2014.05.15 18:52:00 - [72] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Don't do it! They're just using us for Legion research! don't worry, they say they will have some sort of report for us by the end of the week, if they fail to deliver what we are looking for in dust from it then it will all go down a big black hole
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13317	Posted - 2014.05.15 19:08:00 - [73] - Quote I strongly agree with ZDub and Adipem on this. I would also caution against a double nerf like Himiko but I disagree that the CR DPS is fine - it's absurdly high at the moment. In terms of DPS it should generally be: Plasma rifle > Combat rifle > Scrambler rifle > Rail rifle The exception is really the SCR - it's a high alpha, high DPS weapon with terrible sustainability, and I think it's good that way. The core principle should be that you trade off range for getting higher damage - in the case of the SCR it still has a tradeoff (overheat) balancing possible high DPS. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 679	Posted - 2014.05.15 19:11:00 - [74] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. Wouldn't call it a solid weapon. I rather use an SMG than an AR, I'm serious. Actually after coming back to DUST after a break I can see a few glaring things.... The bullet slow down mechanic when you are shot NEED TO GO ASAP! Combat Rifles have a little too high RoF and HMG`s are too strong while this slowdown mechanic as you are hit, is in place. It is crazy now how many rounds I have to put into certain enemies now when I am using my Toxin AR. Most heavies take multiple clips to down, and the whole time I have to watch my range and dance around them.... hoping they dont get to cover. Its an interesting scenario, but really that slowdown needs to go, really needs to go.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 1374	Posted - 2014.05.15 19:46:00 - [75] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: [ rail rifle: long range low rate of fire high damage at range low damage at short range very low hip fire accuracy There's no reasonable way to make a projectile weapon have high damage at long range, but low damage at short range. Seems like best you can do is nerf the hip accuracy into the ground.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 217	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:00:00 - [76] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: The AR is still a good solid weapon. However I do think that the combat rifle does need a little tweak down. I'm not sure if it is the damage so much as the rate of fire. Humm. Its a tricky one. Wouldn't call it a solid weapon. I rather use an SMG than an AR, I'm serious. Actually after coming back to DUST after a break I can see a few glaring things.... The bullet slow down mechanic when you are shot NEED TO GO ASAP! Combat Rifles have a little too high RoF and HMG`s are too strong while this slowdown mechanic as you are hit, is in place. It is crazy now how many rounds I have to put into certain enemies now when I am using my Toxin AR. Most heavies take multiple clips to down, and the whole time I have to watch my range and dance around them.... hoping they dont get to cover. Its an interesting scenario, but really that slowdown needs to go, really needs to go. Multiple clips? You must be hitting heavies that have someone repping them, either that or not at the right range, since I know an AR can take down most heavies in a single clip, if they all hit and you are also not going against a Gallente or Amarr heavy. Both of those racial variants of the sentinel have protection against ARs (I think) and high armor which the ARs are not great against, ARs are meant to eat shields, but get a tooth ache when they hit armor. The CR is one of the if not most broken of the weapons in the game, these things are replacing shotguns for how high the dps is, and they can even do it at a greater distance away. They can mow people down at 100m+ and do really high dps, along with high accuracy and great at close combat. They need to either be med-long or med-close for how they work, they should never be doing so much damage that an AR can't compete with them which is what is happening now. If I was to pick a gun to fear between the CR and HMG, the CR wins hands down every time, even at close combat range. because the amount of optimal kill zone for the HMG is actually tiny, you can be either to close to them for them to really hit you or you can get your distance away from them. Especially if you are using a scout suit which most CR users now use, the CR currently beats all rifles, in nearly every single catagory, except for the laser rifle at the laser rifles max range, and even then the laser rifle barely wins.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1484	Posted - 2014.05.15 20:59:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. The way I've always thought it should be: SCR - The Tactical Sniper Rifle The scrambler rifle is the king of skill shots. You can tactically place your high damage shots from it's large clip of long range rounds, even charging them up, and do mega-bonus damage from head shots. In return for these bonuses, it overheats... honestly it should also suffer from a greatly increased recoil, especially it's charged shot. The point of this is to make it difficult to use up close. The higher the damage per round, the greater the recoil should be. This needs to basically be a tactical sniper rifle. As for the damage v armor/shields, I have no issue with any of the weapons. AR - The Bullet Hose The assault rifle is the master of CQC. You should be able to out gun any rifle 1v1 when not snuck up on when in a <10m fight. It should get bonus damage when in CQC, be mediocre at mid range and it should be terrible at long range. It's spread may need to be tweaked up to compensate, but this would also likely make it even better for CQC hipfire. Possibly a ROF increase since high ROF is sort of what CQC is all about, but drop the overall damage to keep it's bonuses from making it too good out of it's element. Basically the AR needs to be the ACR with better damage at under 10m and a slightly reduced ROF, spray and pray all the way. RR - The Ranged Bruiser The rail rifle is a ranged bruiser, basically having a toned down version of the AR's CQC damage bonus but at all ranged, but in return having a very low ROF and a meaningful charge-up time. The low ROF and meaningful charge time means even though you have a full auto weapon that does massive damage at most ranges, you have to make every round count. If the enemy uses a lot of cover, you should be in big trouble because your weapon is meant to take out people trying to close in on your position from across open spaces. (sidearms are there for a reason) Basically since the AR needs to be a spray and pray, this one needs to be a weapon where every bullet counts. CR - The Thorn in Your Side The combat rifle is an ambush weapon, made for guerrilla warfare. It's made to get hits in and get out. The high ROF bursts are perfect for this, but the delay between bursts is far too short. It needs higher damage bursts, but they need to have a delay about as long, if not longer than the Allotek burst's. Honestly for this weapon to be perfect as an ambush weapon, add in this delay and make all damage done by the CR take longer to regenerate. I know it'll never happen, but that's what would make it perfect for hit-and-run tactics. Higher damage bursts, really long burst delay, damage takes longer to recover from. In short, to be perfect: SCR-Monster long range, heavy headshot, monster recoil, basically tactical sniper. BAD cqc, GOOD mid, AAA long AR-ACR with damage profile change+damage bonus under 10m+900-1000ish ROF. AAA cqc, FAIR mid, BAD/NO long RR-All range heavy hitter, bad v cover users, every bullet counts. GOOD cqc, GOOD mid, OK long CR-Hit&run weapon, damage takes longer to recover, long burst delay, high damage burst. FAIR cqc, AAA mid, FAIR long Basically every rifle should have a weakness that you should have to rely on your sidearm to compensate for, and on that point... every race's sidearm should have traits that somewhat make up for it's rifle's weaknesses. It only makes sense that a race would see it's technology's drawbacks and compensate for them. Armor/shield damage excluded, as that is what separates the races to begin with. My 0.02isk. Not sure anyone cares at this point what my opinion is since I've quit, but figured I'd share the way I always thought it would be best done. Good luck. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Scheherazade VII SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.05.15 21:37:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. what about the range on the rail rifle? did anybody even test that gun? it doesn't seem like it. Permanent Beta Tester \|\| MAG Vet, SVER Scrub For Life
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 294	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:01:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. the problem with the rifles is actually shield tanking vs armor tanking assault rifles where good back when everyone shield tanked in beta. then you buffed armor and everyone switched to armor tanking to stand a better chance against plasma rifles. now everyone armor tanks and we now have the combat rifle and rail rifles to shred them to pieces. but guess what? nobody went back to shield tanking because 3 out of 4 rifle deal excellent damage to shields but only 2 of them do great damage to armor. then add to that the fact that we dont have a rep tool for shield tanks and local shield reps arent as good as remote armor reps. also armor tankers get to fit damage mods without sacrificing slots for armor plates. all of this is to show the reason why people armor tank over shield tanking, and because of it the assault rifle has fallen out of favor simply since no one runs what it was designed to kill. you need to provide more low slot items that are useful to shield tankers in order for shield tanking to be more attractive to players. perhaps moving shield rechargers to low slots since we dont get remote reps or use from nanohives or higher tier nanite injectors? the combat rifle is lopsided. change the weapon profile to -5% shields and +5% armor. lets see how the battlefield responds to that first.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 294	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:03:00 - [80] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. what about the range on the rail rifle? did anybody even test that gun? it doesn't seem like it. what about the range? if anything it needs to be increased to make better use of its scope.

bear90211 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 206	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:13:00 - [81] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I would say the damage is pretty high. Once I get hit by a CR, I really don't have much time to react. Reminds me of how the RR was. No other weapon can knock down a heavy faster than a CR. My gastuns takes em down pretty fast, out DPS and outguns the CR (Assault version) by a 170% increase on proto level, 220% on officer lev, Im happy to be in ambush :D My sig is suuper old.. now i rip faces with my HMG. looking for logies yo.btw #tacos
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 13	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:44:00 - [82] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: [ rail rifle: long range low rate of fire high damage at range low damage at short range very low hip fire accuracy There's no reasonable way to make a projectile weapon have high damage at long range, but low damage at short range. Seems like best you can do is nerf the hip accuracy into the ground. this is the unreal engine we are talking about, if they can vary the damage for the laser rifle then there is no reason they can't do it for other weapons
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 13	Posted - 2014.05.15 22:50:00 - [83] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Scheherazade VII wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. what about the range on the rail rifle? did anybody even test that gun? it doesn't seem like it. what about the range? if anything it needs to be increased to make better use of its scope. and maybe give it a true scope, instead of a sight
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 261	Posted - 2014.05.15 23:36:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. Assault (Plasma) Rifle All around rifle for close to medium range In group battles prioritizes main forces/damage dealers/pretty much anyone who pops their head out of cover In building defense prioritizes in-building defense, making sure no enemies enter, or live long enough to do anything inside, shoots close-to-medium range enemies Combat Rifle Hit-and-run from close-medium to medium-far range Used by smaller, faster moving groups/people to harass and wear down larger groups In group battles prioritizes people trying to get away/flank In building defense prioritizes fast and sneaky enemies trying to move in from sides, shoots ~medium range enemies Scrambler Rifle User fights with group and their job is to find and eliminate high value targets (logis, heavies) to cripple enemy forces In group battles prioritizes logis, heavies, and other vital enemies In building defense prioritizes farthest and tankiest enemies, shoots medium-to-long range enemies Rail Rifle All around rifle for medium to far range In group battles prioritizes late arrivals that haven't gotten into cover and are out of other weapons ranges In building defense prioritizes farthest and tankiest targets, shoots ~medium and medium-to long range enemies Recruiter Link thread
Bat Cow Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:06:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at. One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions. I know what you're going for LogiBro and I appreciate you seeking input from the community, but this still this irks me... There have been a lot of these types of questions over time from the Devs. The question I always asked myself whenever I saw this posed to the community was, "What was the Devs original vision for this? What were the designers, people whose jobs consisted of actually working on Dust for a living, thinking when they came up with the concepts of the weapons and started fleshing out the designs, stats, etc." Sure, the item has a cool back story and paragraphs of text explaining its history, design, and neat terms like "turtle-poo powered arc anti-reactors", but what place does the item have within the game? Does it actually fill a niche, or was the item's sole purpose to create an imbalance, an SP sink, and to drive Aurum sales, meaning there was little to no thought given to actual gameplay or balance. What I would honestly like to see is the game as the designer's intended. This would show us all whether CCP truly has a grasp of gameplay mechanics and balance with an FPS, or whether they're just making it up as they go along and hiding behind the "HTFU" mantra when things get out of whack. (I think it would honestly give me more confidence in CCP's future projects as well. ) The tremendous amount of imbalance, bad fittings, glitches, and errors in 1.7 & 1.8 should never have happened. Not to mention there are still items missing/broken since beta- not being able to run/jump smoothly over basic terrain, inability to sell items to even to a regular store for ISK, etc.. As exciting as Legion or Valkyrie may seem, Dust is actually here. Now. And instead of it being fixed, it remains broken. Instead of demonstrating leadership, instead of taking responsibility for what's broken and fixing it, you're turning to us- the players for suggestions. And yet, we're supposed to embrace Legion? (mic drop, exit stage left) Moo.
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 783	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:18:00 - [86] - Quote buff std ar dmg from 30 to 31. leave acr alone. nerf cr burst refire rate a little bit. a small amount a decently small amount. mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere... dust 514 shall be eternal. pve for dust 514
STABBEY Heaven's Lost Property 488	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:23:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. For the love of god leave the DAM CR alone I'm specced into 2 weapons. The AR that I've used since closed beta and the CR because the AR was rendered completely useless by a bunch of crybaby r3tards. ANYTHING CCP trys o "Balance" gets nerfed to the ground and rendered useless instantly. Tha assault isn't even a viable class anymore due to the morons and the "Balancing" Gÿú GÖ¦ Gÿñ Gäó © sç+(¬GÇ+¬)sç+ (-éGîú¦Ç_Gîú¦ü)ßòñ Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ-Vet-GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ+¦Gû¼Gû¼ +¬(GùÅ¦«¦âGÇó)¦¦ (GùúGùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ (a+ç'¦Ç-'¦ü)a+ç GöîGê¬GöÉ(Gùú_Gùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 688	Posted - 2014.05.16 00:38:00 - [88] - Quote STABBEY wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. For the love of god leave the DAM CR alone I'm specced into 2 weapons. The AR that I've used since closed beta and the CR because the AR was rendered completely useless by a bunch of crybaby r3tards. ANYTHING CCP trys o "Balance" gets nerfed to the ground and rendered useless instantly. Tha assault isn't even a viable class anymore due to the morons and the "Balancing" The AR out-DPS'd Shotguns and HMGs up close, Laser Rifles at range, and everything else in between. Those "crybaby r3tards" had real beef, yet AR-514 -- magically -- persisted for the better part of a year. I'm sorry that you lost your win-button; it had a good long run, but it had to go.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 579	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:07:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at. yall were aware a year ago.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5643	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:29:00 - [90] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Jenova Rhapsodos wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Also, one factor in this could be the much talked about slowdown effect from being hit by high rate of fire weapons. Is that something being looked at? This. Game literally unplayable. Worst mechanic. CCP pls. IWS said sometime back that the stunlock issue is "being looked into" and (oddly) "it isn't a bug". Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2089315#post2089315 Glad to see CCP is bringing it up post-FF; perhaps they might fix it for us afterall :-) It's not a bug, it was an intended feature back when hit-detection was totally whack. As far as what the rifles should be doing, I'm strongly opposed to making the Assault Rifle have "great hipfire accuracy" much for the same reason I've always said it: Too much accuracy in CQC = Bad. Unless you're a god at gun game, having a weapon with great accuracy in a high-speed strafe battle at <20m is a death sentence. I really don't care what happens with the Assault Rifle at this point because my opinion hasn't changed: The CR is out-performing it, the AR needs to be good at CQC and accuracy, if at all possible, should be up to the player. Too high of accuracy, it becomes unwieldy because you need a bit of dispersion when firing from the hip or you're liable to miss everything because you're not directly on-target (this was the problem with the HMG for the longest time). Too low, however, and it becomes a pointless endeavor. Hipfire should be a bit better than the SMG, but not so much that it becomes frustrating to work with. The SMG was/is an infantry murderer in CQC, despite having a really high dispersion. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182



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