We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at.

After the Flaylock gets fixed right?

Seriously, the AR can wait, it's been OP throughout Dust until the last patch. Fix something else instead of making that gun OP again.

Frankly, all of the Hitscan weapons still need to be detuned down to where the AR is now.

That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at.

One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions.

The way I've always thought it should be:

SCR - The Tactical Sniper Rifle

The scrambler rifle is the king of skill shots. You can tactically place your high damage shots from it's large clip of long range rounds, even charging them up, and do mega-bonus damage from head shots. In return for these bonuses, it overheats... honestly it should also suffer from a greatly increased recoil, especially it's charged shot. The point of this is to make it difficult to use up close. The higher the damage per round, the greater the recoil should be. This needs to basically be a tactical sniper rifle. As for the damage v armor/shields, I have no issue with any of the weapons.

AR - The Bullet Hose

The assault rifle is the master of CQC. You should be able to out gun any rifle 1v1 when not snuck up on when in a <10m fight. It should get bonus damage when in CQC, be mediocre at mid range and it should be terrible at long range. It's spread may need to be tweaked up to compensate, but this would also likely make it even better for CQC hipfire. Possibly a ROF increase since high ROF is sort of what CQC is all about, but drop the overall damage to keep it's bonuses from making it too good out of it's element. Basically the AR needs to be the ACR with better damage at under 10m and a slightly reduced ROF, spray and pray all the way.

RR - The Ranged Bruiser

The rail rifle is a ranged bruiser, basically having a toned down version of the AR's CQC damage bonus but at all ranged, but in return having a very low ROF and a meaningful charge-up time. The low ROF and meaningful charge time means even though you have a full auto weapon that does massive damage at most ranges, you have to make every round count. If the enemy uses a lot of cover, you should be in big trouble because your weapon is meant to take out people trying to close in on your position from across open spaces. (sidearms are there for a reason) Basically since the AR needs to be a spray and pray, this one needs to be a weapon where every bullet counts.

CR - The Thorn in Your Side

The combat rifle is an ambush weapon, made for guerrilla warfare. It's made to get hits in and get out. The high ROF bursts are perfect for this, but the delay between bursts is far too short. It needs higher damage bursts, but they need to have a delay about as long, if not longer than the Allotek burst's. Honestly for this weapon to be perfect as an ambush weapon, add in this delay and make all damage done by the CR take longer to regenerate. I know it'll never happen, but that's what would make it perfect for hit-and-run tactics. Higher damage bursts, really long burst delay, damage takes longer to recover from.

In short, to be perfect:

SCR-Monster long range, heavy headshot, monster recoil, basically tactical sniper. BAD cqc, GOOD mid, AAA long
AR-ACR with damage profile change+damage bonus under 10m+900-1000ish ROF. AAA cqc, FAIR mid, BAD/NO long
RR-All range heavy hitter, bad v cover users, every bullet counts. GOOD cqc, GOOD mid, OK long
CR-Hit&run weapon, damage takes longer to recover, long burst delay, high damage burst. FAIR cqc, AAA mid, FAIR long

Basically every rifle should have a weakness that you should have to rely on your sidearm to compensate for, and on that point... every race's sidearm should have traits that somewhat make up for it's rifle's weaknesses. It only makes sense that a race would see it's technology's drawbacks and compensate for them. Armor/shield damage excluded, as that is what separates the races to begin with.

My 0.02isk. Not sure anyone cares at this point what my opinion is since I've quit, but figured I'd share the way I always thought it would be best done. Good luck.

I know what you're going for LogiBro and I appreciate you seeking input from the community, but this still this irks me... There have been a lot of these types of questions over time from the Devs. The question I always asked myself whenever I saw this posed to the community was, "What was the Devs original vision for this? What were the designers, people whose jobs consisted of actually working on Dust for a living, thinking when they came up with the concepts of the weapons and started fleshing out the designs, stats, etc."
Sure, the item has a cool back story and paragraphs of text explaining its history, design, and neat terms like "turtle-poo powered arc anti-reactors", but what place does the item have within the game? Does it actually fill a niche, or was the item's sole purpose to create an imbalance, an SP sink, and to drive Aurum sales, meaning there was little to no thought given to actual gameplay or balance.

What I would honestly like to see is the game as the designer's intended. This would show us all whether CCP truly has a grasp of gameplay mechanics and balance with an FPS, or whether they're just making it up as they go along and hiding behind the "HTFU" mantra when things get out of whack. (I think it would honestly give me more confidence in CCP's future projects as well. )

The tremendous amount of imbalance, bad fittings, glitches, and errors in 1.7 & 1.8 should never have happened. Not to mention there are still items missing/broken since beta- not being able to run/jump smoothly over basic terrain, inability to sell items to even to a regular store for ISK, etc..

As exciting as Legion or Valkyrie may seem, Dust is actually here. Now.

And instead of it being fixed, it remains broken.

Instead of demonstrating leadership, instead of taking responsibility for what's broken and fixing it, you're turning to us- the players for suggestions.

And yet, we're supposed to embrace Legion?

(mic drop, exit stage left)

Personal curiosity. I don't work on the design of the weapons, I'm just curious to see how people see the weapons at the moment in the community. We already have ideas for how we want to tweak the weapons, but it helps to get a second opinion as well, especially since you guys use these guns a lot.

Also, the Flaylock is on our list to get some love (and no, we won't put it back to it's I win button state, I still have nightmares about that)

The AR out-DPS'd Shotguns and HMGs up close, Laser Rifles at range, and everything else in between. Those "crybaby r3tards" had real beef, yet AR-514 persisted unfettered for the better part of a year. I'm sorry that you lost your win-button; it had a good long run, but it had to go.

Thankfully, the CR is not broken like the old AR.
But it still needs tuning, as does the new AR.

Either way, the fact that CCP still intends to smooth rough edges can only be taken as good news.

Let alone the weapons aren't as bad as how the suit balance is; scouts still stacking armor far surpassing assault and logic [and still technically able to outrun the logic and the assault in some cases] is probably the most glaring issue. Even if speed were one issue the scan profile still works in their favor as well.

Do the ground thing.

That's actually one of the factors I would like to take a look at.

One thing out of personal curiosity: How would you (everyone), in your minds define each rifle's role so as to not have them overlap each other? Just for Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Plasma (Assault) Rifle and Scrambler Rifle. Don't worry so much about their variants for now, just think about the base versions.

We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at.

@ Aeon (on AR hipfire accuracy)

I agree entirely. Too accurate and you can't hit sh*t. When I say great hipfire accuracy for the AR, what I mean is better hipfire for the AR when compared with weapons.

Thank you for pointing out my syntactic error. o7

Oi oi oi. The flaylock stays where it is. For the sake of the community and my nerves. I never want to see that it becomes a "i win button" ever again.

And why not cloak disruptor equipment that disables cloak in 50m range? You activate -- all cloaks entering 50m radius get drained to 0 immediately as long it's ON -- same battery settings as cloaks. I'm running 200hp infiltrator scout (no-shotty, no-re's) and that would satisfy me -- something you have counters something I have and doesn't make it useless -- I often run past reds to get to my objective. :)



Also CR damage is not a problem. Stun locking is. I don't understand why am I suddenly paraplegic when hit from any f-ing direction. Applies to other weapons as well.

We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at.

We're aware that the CR needs to be toned down a bit (not nerfed into the ground though) and that the AR could use a little bit of love. They're both on out to do list to look at.

Scout suits can not stack as much armor as assault or logi suits (obviously referring to Gallente).

Not sure why I keep having to say this.

Maybe Gal scouts 3hp/s rep is op, maybe it should be 2 like medium suits. Maybe you should have to finish decloaking before being able to fire. These are potential minor fixes to a minor FOTM problem.

Can people stop spreading false statements like scout suits get more armour than mediums.

P.S, if you try to counter my argument but comparing (for example) Gal scouts with Min assaults, you are an idiot. Also proto Amarr assault suits should be 2/4 not 3/3.

You can stack as much armor on logi than a scout BUT you don't have the same speed, scan precision and if you add dampeners and stamina oh hey GUESS WHICH SLOT YOU LOOSE ON ARMOR. Yes awesome argument because that still is the essential argument mainly; the scouts are really adding the armor on with only a speed penalty overall. You can't achieve the same effect.

I have to say something I have not seen mention of and thast is fitting cost. The CR is always a scouts go to rifle if they do not want to run shotgun. It takes way less PG and CPU to run it. Also anybody running it is capable of gaining more hitpoints or damage or whatever because they can use better plates of damage mods. Just a thought. Make the CR cost more to fit and also lower the damage of it just slightly.

And once done what can Minmatar suit user do to compete?

Oh yeah - move .2 m/s quicker.

Eh. I get to where I'm not even afraid of it anymore. People who think it's OP don't realize that if you have a logi with proto scans, or if you bring a Gal Logi or Cal Scout in your squad to a PC battle, that cloak is going to get scanned.

I really don't think it's as much of an issue as people think it is.

Not exactly. I am gal login with scanners to 5. Only the proto scanner of 30K ism can pick a scout and the scout is cheaper than the scanner. Than you have terrible cool down time.
The issue is that it is not a cloak and is invisibility mod. I spent a full game trying to find a way to counter the cloak and it is impossible if you are not a scout.
Have inn mind that most of the people play pubs with small and not balanced squads. I don't think that it is right the cloaked scouts to get advantage in pubs or solo

But since I haven't played as a medium suit in a while, now I'm starting to feel the pain of the cloaky shotgunner, and yeah it is OP as hell.

Medium suits definitely need a buff. Especially assault.

Cloaky shotgunners are not "op as hell".

Firing whilst still cloaked = op. Make cloaks have to fully deactivate before firing.

Armour mods allowing Gal scouts to brick tank enough to outshine mediums = op. Nerf plates (discussion currently ongoing in feedback).

Gal and Cal scouts outshining Amarr and Min. Maybe go with I-Shayz-I's idea of changing the bonuses to a bonus to modules rather than straight damp and scan bonuses.

Logis are fine, except for maybe a small improvement to active scanners (I think they were over nerfed). Maybe assaults need a small improvement, but probably not after the proposed changes, particularly the armour ones.