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LtGen Shanks
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2014.05.09 11:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1457
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Posted - 2014.05.09 11:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great!
Huh?
I'd better leave...
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DarthJT5
12th Shadow Legion
28
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Posted - 2014.05.09 11:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
They are great, my XT missiles favorite mid game snack, always served with Maddy tears. :)
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Up and coming Python pilot.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
7410
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh?
Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place.
Does that explain it for you?
CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites
(a¦á_a¦á)
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crazy space 1
GunFall Mobilization
2541
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
why do shield reps instanty recharge shields still?
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Jonny D Buelle
Mors Effera
64
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:why do shield reps instanty recharge shields still?
They are always passive. There is a delay after you get shot. But you can use mods to reduce (or even negate) the waiting time.
Come Join the War
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
138
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
I think the point is, it's rendering everything useless but missile tanks against them. So forge guns and swarm launchers are worthless now and those who spent those hard earned skill points are a little upset. Shouldn't there be a stacking penalty?
You guys made it so there is no point in armor plating, it's all about the hardeners and reps, unless you're a shield tank.
I can't fit a missile turret on my madrugar anyway, so there's a personal thanks for that from me.
But from what I hear, there won't be any care or attention to Dust anymore, so we're all crying in the rain really.
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3977
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 12:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
Thank you for breaking it down.
They will still whine about it though. |
M1tch Rapp
Arrogance.
Caps and Mercs
129
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 12:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
I wonder how many people out there have their missiles skilled up as opposed to blaster maddys. What makes pubs so unbearable is that you are flipping a coin each time that someone has something on your team to deal with them. If the enemy team has one or two capable tankers the odds are stacked against you the vast majority of the time. |
Death Shadow117
77
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
he is wrong about not fitting a missle turret on a maddy though bc that is my missle fit i have one with basic dam mof 2 reps my other is the same only wit advanced missiles
When Can I Have Assault Nova Knives
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8199
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Posted - 2014.05.09 12:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
141
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
proto forge gun, complex mods. Assault, breach, regular variants. I have emptied full clips into those tanks and not killed them, ever shot in rapid succession. You do play this game right? I'm assuming you've never used the forge gun or you have never actually ran into a proto repping tank.
I don't think a tank should just set there and take every round of what's made specifically for killing it.
AV grenades are even more pointless.
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3978
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled.
No, you're not.
You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork.
Stick to the fields. |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
141
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment.
Oh, I see, you're one of the people who use those rep tanks c:
That explains your completely bias disposition
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8201
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment.
You resorting to trolling must mean that you cannot refute logically, and that I have won.
GG was EZ. 
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Makuta Miserix
Better Hide R Die
254
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment.
Said knight is just standing there. My "pitchfork" should be able to kill him.
Finally a bitter vet. Thanks CCP.
Dust 514 Private Beta
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:
Oh, I see, you're one of the people who use those rep tanks c:
That explains your completely bias disposition
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. You resorting to trolling must mean that you cannot refute logically, and that I have won. GG was EZ.
I'm not giving you trolling, I'm giving you the truth.
You are meant to be an insignificant insect next to the tank. To become relevant you must outnumber the tank, or call in your own. AV is used at a premium on the outside, infantry are not meant to control that part of the map. That is part of the game design. |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
141
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone.
Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks.
So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks.
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
|
Ankbar Latrommi
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
144
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
LOGI OWNS! muhahahaha!!!
Seriously, a pod pilot would have had that figured out already...rep and buffer are separate defense strategies.
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone. Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks. So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks.
No, we shouldn't be able to kill a triple rep madrugar alone. The tanker is set up specifically counter lone AV. He loses to all aggressive fits of tanking, as well as multiple AV'rs. He, in essence, becomes worthless at fighting other tanks. He's only successful at all when the enemy team is entirely incompetent.
What you are suggesting is that this particular fit is removed because its a counter-fit to your unwillingness to be responsible and call in a tank to deal with him. To that I say, do your job and quit whining.
If you want to win, you don't get to decide your job. You do what needs doing, or you shut the hell up and deal with the consequences. |
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Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1713
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
I love triple rep Maddies!!!
+75 Madrugar Damage
+75 Madrugar Damage
+150 Madrugar Destruction
+50 Kill
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Hecarim Van Hohen
1417
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Knight would most likely be mounted which would give advantage to the said peasant with the pitchfork (though in medieval combat that would most likely be a pike or a spear). Knight would also be vulnerable to longbows and crossbows and somewhat hindered due to the weight of the armour (20-25kg iirc) while in Dust HAV's shrug most of the AV away like it was nothing.
State your stance on EVE:Legion
t¢«_t¢«
|
Lanius Pulvis
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
245
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
To me the real problem is one of mobility and ready availability of cover. A triple rep Maddy is akin to a Sentinel with the speed of a scout having a HMG with the range of a rail rifle.
With the availability of cover on the majority of maps (the notable exception being Manus Peak) all they have to do is break line of sight for a few seconds and they'really back to full health. This is imbalanced.
That being said, I do believe it should take either multiple AV or an advantageous position to destroy a tank. It's just too skewed in favor of multiple reps right now.
Not new, just new to you.
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank. Knight would most likely be mounted which would give advantage to the said peasant with the pitchfork (though in medieval combat that would most likely be a pike or a spear). Knight would also be vulnerable to longbows and crossbows and somewhat hindered due to the weight of the armour (20-25kg iirc) while in Dust HAV's shrug most of the AV away like it was nothing.
No, they shrug off a SOLO AV like they are nothing. |
Death Shadow117
78
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
actually the forge is more of an anti sheild weapon and dont be mad that you cant kill someone who has spent more time and sp to get their tank get a gastuns and stop complaining
When Can I Have Assault Nova Knives
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
141
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone. Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks. So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks. No, we shouldn't be able to kill a triple rep madrugar alone. The tanker is set up specifically counter lone AV. He loses to all aggressive fits of tanking, as well as multiple AV'rs. He, in essence, becomes worthless at fighting other tanks. He's only successful at all when the enemy team is entirely incompetent. What you are suggesting is that this particular fit is removed because its a counter-fit to your unwillingness to be responsible and call in a tank to deal with him. To that I say, do your job and quit whining. If you want to win, you don't get to decide your job. You do what needs doing, or you shut the hell up and deal with the consequences.
People that use rep tanks use blasters. No other Blaster fit can stand up to it.
I have actually been standing beside another person swarming and AV grenading them too, so not just relying on me by myself attacking them.
When you do get them about gone, they hit that little booster and zoom off at a 100 miles an hour like a pansy.
One question I would like you to answer though, why is it every single kid from Dirt nap has the attitude of a 16 year old drama queen on her period?
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
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Death Shadow117
78
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
my tripple rep fit has a railgun
When Can I Have Assault Nova Knives
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone. Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks. So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks. No, we shouldn't be able to kill a triple rep madrugar alone. The tanker is set up specifically counter lone AV. He loses to all aggressive fits of tanking, as well as multiple AV'rs. He, in essence, becomes worthless at fighting other tanks. He's only successful at all when the enemy team is entirely incompetent. What you are suggesting is that this particular fit is removed because its a counter-fit to your unwillingness to be responsible and call in a tank to deal with him. To that I say, do your job and quit whining. If you want to win, you don't get to decide your job. You do what needs doing, or you shut the hell up and deal with the consequences. People that use rep tanks use blasters. No other Blaster fit can stand up to it. I have actually been standing beside another person swarming and AV grenading them too, so not just relying on me by myself attacking them. When you do get them about gone, they hit that little booster and zoom off at a 100 miles an hour like a pansy. One question I would like you to answer though, why is it every single kid from Dirt nap has the attitude of a 16 year old drama queen on her period?
We don't.
I'm simply giving you the real answer and your sensitive 12 year old girl feelings aren't accustomed to receiving the truth.
And you shouldn't be using blasters to kill tanks, for any reason, ever. The fact you even think that's an issue shows that people who can't kill tanks, such as yourself, don't have the first clue as to how to start.
A player having no idea what the hell is going on is not a balance concern. It's a personal problem. |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
141
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone. Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks. So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks. No, we shouldn't be able to kill a triple rep madrugar alone. The tanker is set up specifically counter lone AV. He loses to all aggressive fits of tanking, as well as multiple AV'rs. He, in essence, becomes worthless at fighting other tanks. He's only successful at all when the enemy team is entirely incompetent. What you are suggesting is that this particular fit is removed because its a counter-fit to your unwillingness to be responsible and call in a tank to deal with him. To that I say, do your job and quit whining. If you want to win, you don't get to decide your job. You do what needs doing, or you shut the hell up and deal with the consequences. People that use rep tanks use blasters. No other Blaster fit can stand up to it. I have actually been standing beside another person swarming and AV grenading them too, so not just relying on me by myself attacking them. When you do get them about gone, they hit that little booster and zoom off at a 100 miles an hour like a pansy. One question I would like you to answer though, why is it every single kid from Dirt nap has the attitude of a 16 year old drama queen on her period? We don't. I'm simply giving you the real answer and your sensitive 12 year old girl feelings aren't accustomed to receiving the truth. And you shouldn't be using blasters to kill tanks, for any reason, ever. The fact you even think that's an issue shows that people who can't kill tanks, such as yourself, don't have the first clue as to how to start. A player having no idea what the hell is going on is not a balance concern. It's a personal problem.
You do, you get so upset and hostile for no apparent reason, then you get offencive with a great superiority complex.
And I mean EVERY one of you kids. You can't have a debate or discussion, or even utter a sentence without douchey comments thrown in.
The scenario of which I'm referring to was happening in an ambush, a small map in particular. There were two repping tanks and you couldn't call any other tank in to defend against them because they smote them upon calling them in at any given location.
The Hoards of AV being fired at them had no avail, and the only course of action for me being a heavy was to pull out a forge gun and join the pointless assault against them.
So yeah, I'm gonna complain about it, why? Because I want to and I can.
Edit: And I know I'm not the first person to say you guys all act like spoiled brats, so I'm not the one that isn't accustomed to receiving the truth c:
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
7422
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites
(a¦á_a¦á)
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8202
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
You have officially replaced CCP Saberwing for favorite developer.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
|
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
141
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
Thanks for that homie :3
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
|
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8203
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:
You do, you get so upset and hostile for no apparent reason, then you get offencive with a great superiority complex.
And I mean EVERY one of you kids. You can't have a debate or discussion, or even utter a sentence without douchey comments thrown in.
The scenario of which I'm referring to was happening in an ambush, a small map in particular. There were two repping tanks and you couldn't call any other tank in to defend against them because they smote them upon calling them in at any given location.
The Hoards of AV being fired at them had no avail, and the only course of action for me being a heavy was to pull out a forge gun and join the pointless assault against them.
So yeah, I'm gonna complain about it, why? Because I want to and I can.
Edit: And I know I'm not the first person to say you guys all act like spoiled brats, so I'm not the one that isn't accustomed to receiving the truth c:
We aren't all like that. 
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
|
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
142
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:
You do, you get so upset and hostile for no apparent reason, then you get offencive with a great superiority complex.
And I mean EVERY one of you kids. You can't have a debate or discussion, or even utter a sentence without douchey comments thrown in.
The scenario of which I'm referring to was happening in an ambush, a small map in particular. There were two repping tanks and you couldn't call any other tank in to defend against them because they smote them upon calling them in at any given location.
The Hoards of AV being fired at them had no avail, and the only course of action for me being a heavy was to pull out a forge gun and join the pointless assault against them.
So yeah, I'm gonna complain about it, why? Because I want to and I can.
Edit: And I know I'm not the first person to say you guys all act like spoiled brats, so I'm not the one that isn't accustomed to receiving the truth c:
We aren't all like that.
Dude, I hate to say it, but the only interactions I have had with DNS has been bad >.>;
If there are some good guys there, you're hilariously outnumbered by the mass of pecker heads that interact with the public D:
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
|
Henrietta Unknown
Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors
Dropsuit Samurai
247
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Testing shows I can beat everything except for a missile tank with a 2.5 mill SP copycat of the Madrugar.
Rail tanks are fair game. I have stalemates with madrugars though.
Well phooey, I never liked CCP one bit.
|
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
411
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
You know what? I just don't care anymore.
It bothered me a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to see some balance adjustments between vehicles and AV but, now that we all know the game has no future, it's just not worth the hassle arguing about it.
Fix it, leave it as is, who gives a sh*t. At this point I'm just tired of repeating the same damn arguments, with the same damn people, and getting absolutely nowhere. It's become tedious.
I'll be playing something else by the time CCP gets around to doing something about it anyway (if they do at all, that is). |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
RISE of LEGION
142
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:You know what? I just don't care anymore.
It bothered me a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to see some balance adjustments between vehicles and AV but, now that we all know the game has no future, it's just not worth the hassle arguing about it.
Fix it, leave it as is, who gives a sh*t. At this point I'm just tired of repeating the same damn arguments, with the same damn people, and getting absolutely nowhere. It's become tedious.
I'll be playing something else by the time CCP gets around to doing something about it anyway (if they do at all, that is).
I'm not saying anything... But... What you just said... Seems counter productive by typing it up... Just saying >.>
G.L.O.R.Y solider,
Master of the Gallente Heavy
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
599
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
Good. I am happy to hear this for both Dust and Legion. However don't go down the Battlefield route where tanks are like paper. Unless you are going to promote real teamwork (I.e you want to survive, get some mechanics to repair) and make the tanks much cheaper.
Like I have said before,
Cheap tanks that need teamwork to survive long engagements,
Or really expensive tanks that are similar to how they are now, tanky, can get around and cause damage by themselves.
Lets be honest CCP you really pushed tanking into a single man job when you changed the way fitting turrets worked.
You gave the option to not fit turrets for passengers, which in turn really aided with fitting of a one man tank. However you never gave enough incentive to have the choice of fitting secondary and tertiary turrets.
They could have given passive bonuses, you could have made the DPS increase of the 2nd n 3rd outweigh the loss of tank... etc. |
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
4365
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Atiim wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:
You do, you get so upset and hostile for no apparent reason, then you get offencive with a great superiority complex.
And I mean EVERY one of you kids. You can't have a debate or discussion, or even utter a sentence without douchey comments thrown in.
The scenario of which I'm referring to was happening in an ambush, a small map in particular. There were two repping tanks and you couldn't call any other tank in to defend against them because they smote them upon calling them in at any given location.
The Hoards of AV being fired at them had no avail, and the only course of action for me being a heavy was to pull out a forge gun and join the pointless assault against them.
So yeah, I'm gonna complain about it, why? Because I want to and I can.
Edit: And I know I'm not the first person to say you guys all act like spoiled brats, so I'm not the one that isn't accustomed to receiving the truth c:
We aren't all like that. Dude, I hate to say it, but the only interactions I have had with DNS has been bad >.>; If there are some good guys there, you're hilariously outnumbered by the mass of pecker heads that interact with the public D:
All because you two both are whining about the same topic instead of adapting?
Give me a break. Himiko is right.
I was hoping all the whiners would have left. I see quite a few remains.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
|
IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University
Ivy League
673
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 14:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
ITT:
The end result of pushing away unbiased discussion from the forums.
Here we have a faction conflict.
Tankers - Terrified of losing their indomitable status on the battlefield
Infantry - Terrified of DUST devolving into world of tanks.
The interesting point is the anger involved as both sides put forward their arguments. Strong emotions, such as these, usually foment from fear responses to stimuli. The infantry feeling abandoned from their place of dominance, and the Tanker fearing for theirs.
Can balance ever be achieved in a world of, what equates to, 'DOODY-HEAD' 'HE'S CHEATING!' and ' NUH-UH!!'?
The elitest attitudes and faction aligments are set.
And no f**ks were given.
It's hard to beat up hundreds of armor piercing bullets using only your face...
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Sargon Akkadi
44
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Posted - 2014.05.09 15:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
Thanks for this information! I was really looking forward to the Fanfest announcements about the next year in DUST because announcements have been pretty sparse since 1.8. While I can look forward to the -possibility- of Legion down the road that was presented, I am still interested in what can be done to iterate on DUST in the meantime. This is the first somewhat real thing that I've heard about what's coming soon (no TM), and would really like to hear more.
Slightly more on thread topic: I was pounding on a militia soma with a proto damage mod'd FG and barely popped it over its reps. Really, I only popped it because the driver was too stubborn to run until the tank was on fire. It was a really challenging battle, especially considering the cost differential I would assume was at play. So yes, some infantryAV v. tank balance would be very welcome!
|
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
645
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Sadly, I suspect you are serious.
Because, that's why.
|
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
Lokun Listamenn
4365
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sadly, I suspect you don't have a fighter's mentality to even say such a thing. Don't be made of fluff, be made of stone.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
|
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
645
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
Excellent, now if you could just do something about tankers and their constipated viewpoints.
Because, that's why.
|
Harpyja
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1714
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
Please don't swing the nerf bat carelessly. I feel that my missile Gunnlogi is in a good place right now against infantry AV.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
|
doc lowroar
K-A-O-S theory
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
My impression of the o.p. was a player or players are giving away free x3 mads. Due to , dust is dead , and doesn't give a care anymore . Which I think was obvious, until dev diverted topic.
"Wherever you go, there you are" -BB
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3986
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. Please don't swing the nerf bat carelessly. I feel that my missile Gunnlogi is in a good place right now against infantry AV.
You mean missing every shot? |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
2488
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
rails work better for this unless you have invested heavily into missle reload and even then I'd take the rail usually. |
WARxion ForDUST
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
46
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:40:00 -
[49] - Quote
IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote:ITT:
The end result of pushing away unbiased discussion from the forums.
Here we have a faction conflict.
Tankers - Terrified of losing their indomitable status on the battlefield
Infantry - Terrified of DUST devolving into world of tanks.
The interesting point is the anger involved as both sides put forward their arguments. Strong emotions, such as these, usually foment from fear responses to stimuli. The infantry feeling abandoned from their place of dominance, and the Tanker fearing for theirs.
Can balance ever be achieved in a world of, what equates to, 'DOODY-HEAD' 'HE'S CHEATING!' and ' NUH-UH!!'?
The elitest attitudes and faction aligments are set.
And no f**ks were given.
Actually ITT: people could not solo Proto TripleRep Maddys with Militia Swarm so it must be OP and should be nerfed.
To contribute something positive about the AVs... yesterday I had fun with the Militia Swarm so I put some SP into it to leave the peasant free AV suit tier. It isn't UP at all! With an ADV Swarm and a random dude with MLT right next to me we killed 3 tanks out of 4 on the field by pressing R1 and aiming up... two guys with Swarms > 3 MLT tanks.
Now lets take the same example but with Proto Swarms for both of us in ADV Minmatar Commando suits with Complex dmg mods (or any other PROPER fit) and you can take down those Proto tanks too.
Yes, I'm that desperate...
|
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
413
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:You know what? I just don't care anymore.
It bothered me a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to see some balance adjustments between vehicles and AV but, now that we all know the game has no future, it's just not worth the hassle arguing about it.
Fix it, leave it as is, who gives a sh*t. At this point I'm just tired of repeating the same damn arguments, with the same damn people, and getting absolutely nowhere. It's become tedious.
I'll be playing something else by the time CCP gets around to doing something about it anyway (if they do at all, that is). I'm not saying anything... But... What you just said... Seems counter productive by typing it up... Just saying >.>
Yeah, I had started writing a lengthy reply, but deleted it before hitting submit, and posted that instead.
Sorry, just venting a little.
Carry on.  |
|
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CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
270
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
^^ Completely agree. With all the Q_Q re: FGs and SLs, I always thought the obvious and true "AV" choice was another vehicle. You know, with similar (at least much more so than compared to infantry) EHP and damage output? |
CRNWLLC
Screwy Rabbit ULC
270
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone. Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks. So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks. No, we shouldn't be able to kill a triple rep madrugar alone. The tanker is set up specifically counter lone AV. He loses to all aggressive fits of tanking, as well as multiple AV'rs. He, in essence, becomes worthless at fighting other tanks. He's only successful at all when the enemy team is entirely incompetent. What you are suggesting is that this particular fit is removed because its a counter-fit to your unwillingness to be responsible and call in a tank to deal with him. To that I say, do your job and quit whining. If you want to win, you don't get to decide your job. You do what needs doing, or you shut the hell up and deal with the consequences.
Again, Himiko Kuronaga hits the nail on the head. The triple rep is Maddy best as an anti-infantry platform (hey, that's funny--a vehicle fit to take care of infantry that is at a marked disadvantage compared to other vehicles, much the same way AV infantry is at a similar disadvantage compared to other infantry; strange, that...) since it's quite difficult to fit a rail on it and still completely fit it without max skills. A 3x Maddy in an open area with a blaster (eg, Manu's Peak) is flippin death to infantry. Get it in a city (ie, vehicle CQC) and sneak up behind it with a rail, and *POP*, no more Maddy. Or PEs or packed AV grenades. It is role-specific!
To make it more survivable against tanks with lowish or middling skills, fit a complex light rep instead of the enhanced heavy, and a fuel injector. Still reps 400HP/S, +/- depending on skills, which is more than adequate to deal with a proto FG or SL or two, and allows you to GTFO when you find yourself under attack from a rail. |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
647
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
WARxion ForDUST wrote:IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote:ITT:
The end result of pushing away unbiased discussion from the forums.
Here we have a faction conflict.
Tankers - Terrified of losing their indomitable status on the battlefield
Infantry - Terrified of DUST devolving into world of tanks.
The interesting point is the anger involved as both sides put forward their arguments. Strong emotions, such as these, usually foment from fear responses to stimuli. The infantry feeling abandoned from their place of dominance, and the Tanker fearing for theirs.
Can balance ever be achieved in a world of, what equates to, 'DOODY-HEAD' 'HE'S CHEATING!' and ' NUH-UH!!'?
The elitest attitudes and faction aligments are set.
And no f**ks were given.
Actually ITT: people could not solo Proto TripleRep Maddys with Militia Swarm so it must be OP and should be nerfed. To contribute something positive about the AVs... yesterday I had fun with the Militia Swarm so I put some SP into it to leave the peasant free AV suit tier. It isn't UP at all! With an ADV Swarm and a random dude with MLT right next to me we killed 3 tanks out of 4 on the field by pressing R1 and aiming up... two guys with Swarms > 3 MLT tanks. Now lets take the same example but with Proto Swarms for both of us in ADV Minmatar Commando suits with Complex dmg mods (or any other PROPER fit) and you can take down those Proto tanks too.
Join the A/V UNITED channel, squad up and show us all how easy it is. I've got Prof 2 Swarms on a Min Commando and even with two other swarmers I don't see tanks blowing up. I have to use a FG or have another tank to do most of the damage for swarms to finish a tank.
Instead of replying "get good" show me how you do it. I will be waiting. If you aren't willing then I hope you understand I remain skeptical.
Because, that's why.
|
danie sous
DUST BRASIL S.A
Caps and Mercs
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
Gimme a respec and ill use some sp for lvl 5 so ill be able to use missiles. Untill then my ultra cheap cloaky squishy shottie wielding scout is fine.
Btw, Think i took down one maddie today w a sica. The 400k isk payout was awesomeness. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14811
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:11:00 -
[55] - Quote
RE's end these suckers real quick without so many slap ons either, one or two instead of stack 3 the plate maddys need.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
RolyatDerTeufel
1795
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
hmmmmm, I have a feeling I know the person spamming these tanks..
Twitch.TV Live Stream
YouTube Channel
|
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2067
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? I think the point is, it's rendering everything useless but missile tanks against them. So forge guns and swarm launchers are worthless now and those who spent those hard earned skill points are a little upset. Shouldn't there be a stacking penalty? You guys made it so there is no point in armor plating, it's all about the hardeners and reps, unless you're a shield tank. I can't fit a missile turret on my madrugar anyway, so there's a personal thanks for that from me. But from what I hear, there won't be any care or attention to Dust anymore, so we're all crying in the rain really.
I almost lost a triple rep to a few people that don't come on the forums and complain about tanks, because they were smashing my tank non-stop with AV.
I don't think the people that come here are a good representation of the playerbase.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1457
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
I know what they are, I meant blues were giving them?
I'd better leave...
|
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
284
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? I think the point is, it's rendering everything useless but missile tanks against them. So forge guns and swarm launchers are worthless now and those who spent those hard earned skill points are a little upset. Shouldn't there be a stacking penalty? You guys made it so there is no point in armor plating, it's all about the hardeners and reps, unless you're a shield tank. I can't fit a missile turret on my madrugar anyway, so there's a personal thanks for that from me. But from what I hear, there won't be any care or attention to Dust anymore, so we're all crying in the rain really. I almost lost a triple rep to a few people that don't come on the forums and complain about tanks, because they were smashing my tank non-stop with AV. I don't think the people that come here are a good representation of the playerbase.
So because you almost got killed by about 3 people it's balanced? Really? |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2068
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:33:00 -
[60] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:RE's end these suckers real quick without so many slap ons either, one or two instead of stack 3 the plate maddys need.
Lol, you don't know what you're talking about.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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BDiD
HEAVY LOGISTIC OPERATIONS
8
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
Sounds good. Better be followed by another vehicle respec. Next time, do real tests. Not computer generated code and ai players. Why don't you have a bunch of ppl play the bug fixes that get implemented? Seems like it would help. |
mordiby
G.R.A.V.E
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
103
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
You know what you are Himiko Kuronanga, a piece of ****, I am not afraid to say it, douche bag.
Director of G.R.A.V.E
Logi cake here!
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2068
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
I don't think the people that come here are a good representation of the playerbase.
So because you almost got killed by about 3 people it's balanced? Really?[/quote]
It was only 2 people. I'm sorry you're not intelligent enough to gang up on a tank to destroy it, you'd rather solo it with the starter fit, or try to destroy it with a scout suit. It's not my fault.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1457
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
I don't think the people that come here are a good representation of the playerbase.
So because you almost got killed by about 3 people it's balanced? Really?
It was only 2 people. I'm sorry you're not intelligent enough to gang up on a tank to destroy it, you'd rather solo it with the starter fit, or try to destroy it with a scout suit. It's not my fault.[/quote]
Yep dude tripple reps are overpowered
2 people trying to kill you without hardeners is not balanced at all.
Thats like saying, I have a med frame proto auit that can only be killed with a shotgun shot in the head and only if its proto.
I'd better leave...
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14816
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:RE's end these suckers real quick without so many slap ons either, one or two instead of stack 3 the plate maddys need. Lol, you don't know what you're talking about.
You don't blow these things up enough it seems.
High Alpha destroys these suckers real quick thus the only real weakness to these builds are typically coordination.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1457
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:45:00 -
[66] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:RE's end these suckers real quick without so many slap ons either, one or two instead of stack 3 the plate maddys need. Lol, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't blow these things up enough it seems. High Alpha destroys these suckers real quick thus the only real weakness to these builds are typically coordination.
You need at least 2 remotes on the weakspot and 1 anywhere else to kill a base armor tank.
I'd better leave...
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
913
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
Hmm, do you tank?
While spot on about missiles against ANY maddie, you fail to mention how utterly useless any infantry AV are against said maddie.
Yes missiles will out alpha those reps with burst damage, but you neglect to mention the vulnerabilities you have when running missiles, aside from needing to land EVERY shot, plus the need for a damage mod. Missiles are mostly a joke. I know people that do like them and run them, but I typically blow these people up with great consistency. Railguns are far more consistent in most any situation.
Know what else has the alpha needed to blow one up (yes more so than missiles), the railgun. Boom, boom, 2 shots and yr dead mister maddie to my triple damage mods. Or my double damage mods with the nitro.
But I think the point wasn't about how their tank was unable to beat a triple rep maddie (only a blaster would struggle), but how utterly useless multiple AV were against it. At least, that usually the case. So are you saying that you HAVE to spec tanks to beat a tank? As a tanker, I think that is bullshit.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2068
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:50:00 -
[68] - Quote
danie sous wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? Gimme a respec and ill use some sp for lvl 5 so ill be able to use missiles. Untill then my ultra cheap cloaky squishy shottie wielding scout is fine. Btw, Think i took down one maddie today w a sica. The 400k isk payout was awesomeness.
I had double the ISK payout for destroying 11 tanks yesterday.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Void Echo
Total Extinction
2556
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
are you serious?
Dust is dead already, enough with balance issues that wont last longer than a few more months from, now.
Closed Beta Vet.
Playstation 4 or nothing CCP.
Only the strongest can do good and the weakest do evil. - Void Echo
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14816
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 16:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:RE's end these suckers real quick without so many slap ons either, one or two instead of stack 3 the plate maddys need. Lol, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't blow these things up enough it seems. High Alpha destroys these suckers real quick thus the only real weakness to these builds are typically coordination. You need at least 2 remotes on the weakspot and 1 anywhere else to kill a base armor tank.
Only one with coordination like I said.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1458
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Posted - 2014.05.09 16:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:RE's end these suckers real quick without so many slap ons either, one or two instead of stack 3 the plate maddys need. Lol, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't blow these things up enough it seems. High Alpha destroys these suckers real quick thus the only real weakness to these builds are typically coordination. You need at least 2 remotes on the weakspot and 1 anywhere else to kill a base armor tank. Only one with coordination like I said.
Still need at least 2 on weakspot, or else maddy will out rep anything but a breach forge if not fired immediately
Blues are **** so they cant
2 tripple reps are just broken
Did I mention how hard it is to plant remotes on a ion cannon tank?
I'd better leave...
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Proficiency V.
1458
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 17:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:danie sous wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? Gimme a respec and ill use some sp for lvl 5 so ill be able to use missiles. Untill then my ultra cheap cloaky squishy shottie wielding scout is fine. Btw, Think i took down one maddie today w a sica. The 400k isk payout was awesomeness. I had double the ISK payout for destroying 11 tanks yesterday.
Were you using the nitros exploit where you go back and forth to never die?
I'd better leave...
|
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
285
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 17:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
I don't think the people that come here are a good representation of the playerbase.
So because you almost got killed by about 3 people it's balanced? Really?
It was only 2 people. I'm sorry you're not intelligent enough to gang up on a tank to destroy it, you'd rather solo it with the starter fit, or try to destroy it with a scout suit. It's not my fault.[/quote]
I think you are the unintelligent one. A few people means 3. A couple is 2. And i have co-ordinated with other avers to kill a triple repped maddy and it would not die. We got close but it zoomed off |
RayRay James
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
133
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 17:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
proto forge gun, complex mods. Assault, breach, regular variants. I have emptied full clips into those tanks and not killed them, ever shot in rapid succession. You do play this game right? I'm assuming you've never used the forge gun or you have never actually ran into a proto repping tank. I don't think a tank should just set there and take every round of what's made specifically for killing it. AV grenades are even more pointless.
I have proto forges and a trip-rep maddie. I can tell you, from experience, I'm not invulnerable. There are plenty of ways to kill a trip-rep maddie, just gotta use your noodle.
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
14
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Posted - 2014.05.09 17:51:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514.
There needs to be looking at followed by understanding and doing the right thing in response.
There has been little evidence of that happening thus far. 
Although it is good to know that the missile tank is OP on purpose. Its major role is to hunt armor tanks. Now if the missile turret would actually work consistently. Oh wait! No turret works consistently, so they are all in balance. 
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2966
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
Isnt this great you guys
We have a wonderfully balanced game when there is only one reliable weapon against this BS and it means you are forced to use another tanks
I love you guys |
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8209
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer.
Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3989
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard.
It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless.
If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit. |
mordiby
G.R.A.V.E
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
105
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:23:00 -
[79] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard.
The most ironic part of this conversation is that two DNS alliance members a ******* fighting, how is this alliance still together, I mean, SERIOUSLY!
Director of G.R.A.V.E
Logi cake here!
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Lynn Beck
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
1663
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:23:00 -
[80] - Quote
My lv5 commando can kill a triple rep maddy(350 i believe?) takes... Reload/prof 1, and 13 volleys.
So now i need maxed Prof, and maxed reload(topped with minmando 5) to kill a rep op 3 tank.
**** me if he has rep 5 lol
Armor tanks shouldn't have more reps that shield tanks, that breaks the balance that CCP themselves said shield tanks were supposed to do.
Buff shield rep to 400, reduce reps in general.
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
9569
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
If you're saying that a single AV is "supposed to" be shrugged off, then you clearly don't know how CCP intended things to work.
A single AV is supposed to make a tanker think twice about going somewhere, and force it to relocate instead of sitting still and collecting kills.
Two AV and the tanker is supposed to be in deep ****.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8214
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:26:00 -
[82] - Quote
BDiD wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. Sounds good. Better be followed by another vehicle respec. Next time, do real tests. Not computer generated code and ai players. Why don't you have a bunch of ppl play the bug fixes that get implemented? Seems like it would help.
Nope.
Rebalance does not constitute Respec.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
|
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
2224
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:29:00 -
[83] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard. It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless. If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit.
^logic is OP. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
9573
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:29:00 -
[84] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard. It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless. If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit.
Ignoring how a tank can act as both AV and AI.
Ignoring how infantry AV opens up a weak spot on the infantry side.
Ignoring how a tank is nearly impossible to kill with the majority of weapons on the battlefield.
Ignoring how tanks can insta pop nearly all infantry. (Heavies can still take somewhat of a beating)
They're supposed to be a force on the battlefield, not the gods of it.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
2224
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:33:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard. It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless. If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit. Ignoring how a tank can act as both AV and AI. Ignoring how infantry AV opens up a weak spot on the infantry side. Ignoring how a tank is nearly impossible to kill with the majority of weapons on the battlefield. Ignoring how tanks can insta pop nearly all infantry. (Heavies can still take somewhat of a beating) They're supposed to be a force on the battlefield, not the gods of it.
Ignoring stupid people. Damn too late. |
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8215
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:35:00 -
[86] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless.
If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit.
The HAV will always be superior due to the fact that it can only be taken out by 1 class of weaponry, while the AVer can be killed by every weapon other than Swarm Launchers & AV Grenades (which ironically, is himself).
How about the ability to have infinite spawns on demand, while also functioning as a slayer at the same time? Did I forget to mention Active Scans with long durations of time? How about over 10x the eHP of said dropsuit? Immunity to all but 6 weapons in the game? Those definitely aren't tactical benefits
The ironic part of this, is that there is no tactical benefit that AVers provide in PC, and there is no need to field them over HAVs; which by your "logic" constitutes its buff in the first place.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
5249
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
I don't think I've ever read such an elitist and self-entitled post.
Wow.
I'm honestly not sure if I should even frame a logical response to this drivel.
|
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8215
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:
^logic is OP.
Indeed it is.
Why do you think they're adjusting V/AV balance?
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3989
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:
^logic is OP.
Indeed it is. Why do you think they're adjusting V/AV balance?
Because logic has to be counter-balanced by stupidity? |
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8219
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:39:00 -
[90] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Because logic has to be counter-balanced by stupidity?
Nah, because not a single person on these forums, or in-game has been able to provide a logical reason as to why the current V/AV situation is imbalanced.
You included.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Eko Sol
Strange Playings
256
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:58:00 -
[91] - Quote
I beat triple rep Maddy's reasonably often with just RE's and AV nades and maybe a little help in getting it's shields down. I don't see the fuss. In addition, VERY rarely have I seen a SKILLED tanker run it. I'm not saying there are none but I will say if you don't have the spatial awareness to not crash into something when putting on the afterburner then I can't really say you are a good tanker. A lot of times it's quite easy to beat those ones.
If a skilled tanker is using this fit then it often is someone skilled enough to use other types of tank fits so it wouldn't matter anyway.
I do run a MLT Missile Soma on occasion just for kicks against these tanks. It's a D move but I just finish you off, pop on the nitro toward the red line and recall it. It's actually funny to watch a tank run around the whole match looking for it. I know exactly what they are saying too "Where the hell is that ******* missile tank?"
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3989
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:00:00 -
[92] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Because logic has to be counter-balanced by stupidity?
Nah, because not a single person on these forums, or in-game has been able to provide a logical reason as to why the current V/AV situation is imbalanced. You included.
It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be.
Where exactly have I been unclear in this?
Are you becoming confused, perchance? |
Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1565
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:04:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
Remember when shields had the quick repping, hit and run philosophy? Yeah, with a triple rep fit, they don't need to worry about running unless it's a missile tank (which are gimped honestly).
Armor reps need a massive reduction, more like the infantry repairs.
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M1A1 Blaster Master
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Dirt Nap Squad.
6
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Posted - 2014.05.09 19:12:00 -
[94] - Quote
My triple rep maddy has an Ion cannon and it will lose to organized AV, rail tanks that sneak me, scouts with remote charges on my engine plate and missile tanks. The triple rep maddy is not an iWin button. It's akin to a shotgun scout, get in blow **** up and get out. If it sticks around too long it will die. People that are mad about it really have no right to blame their enemy for their own incompetence. |
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
570
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:39:00 -
[95] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
this is exactly how its supposed to work you little infantry AV can dispatch LAVs and derpships quite quickly, any more of a buff and it wold be op in that area, if you want to kill tanks your best shot is with another tank not on foot against a 3-4 ton monstrosity in a little dropsuit you ar retarted for even thinking you can solo kill an ATNI-INFANTRY vehicle as an infantry |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
650
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:49:00 -
[96] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
proto forge gun, complex mods. Assault, breach, regular variants. I have emptied full clips into those tanks and not killed them, ever shot in rapid succession. You do play this game right? I'm assuming you've never used the forge gun or you have never actually ran into a proto repping tank. I don't think a tank should just set there and take every round of what's made specifically for killing it. AV grenades are even more pointless. I have proto forges and a trip-rep maddie. I can tell you, from experience, I'm not invulnerable. There are plenty of ways to kill a trip-rep maddie, just gotta use your noodle.
I will tell you what I have told others, join the A/V UNITED channel and show us how easy it is. Seriously. I have asked about 15 forum warriors to demonstrate their prowess and not one has done so. Prove us wrong. I kill tanks, no one is saying it can't be done, but the effort and resources required are completely out of proportion with what killing one other player should require.
Because, that's why.
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bhold'the brngr ofLIKE
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2014.05.09 19:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? But from what I hear, there won't be any care or attention to Dust anymore, so we're all crying in the rain really.
finally there's some finality.. was tired of watching the devs knee jerk to the forums, trying to get everyone that whined their nerf in time. now they can go nerf legion and leave us the F alone. |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
650
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:56:00 -
[98] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard. It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless. If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit.
You do realize you made rhe exact argument about IAV. If we can't kill tanks better than tanks what tactical purpose does it serve? More importantly why does one player get to have this huge advantage over one class of player and complete invulnerability to another without giving up the ability to kill everyone else?
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
650
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:00:00 -
[99] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Because logic has to be counter-balanced by stupidity?
Nah, because not a single person on these forums, or in-game has been able to provide a logical reason as to why the current V/AV situation is imbalanced. You included. It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be. Where exactly have I been unclear in this? Are you becoming confused, perchance?
No you have been very clear, you want a huge advatage over other players and have no reasoning to support why you should be given this advantage other than "I want to be a big tank".
Because, that's why.
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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2969
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:11:00 -
[100] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank. this is exactly how its supposed to work you little infantry AV can dispatch LAVs and derpships quite quickly, any more of a buff and it wold be op in that area, if you want to kill tanks your best shot is with another tank not on foot against a 3-4 ton monstrosity in a little dropsuit you ar retarted for even thinking you can solo kill an ATNI-INFANTRY vehicle as an infantry
Tanks are infantry support not anti infantry, sorry to burst that bubble
And please tell the decades of people who blew tanks up they are ********, especially those guys using socks stuffed with dynamite and covered in grease the morons
Face it, anyone crying that it should be some unstoppable force is a scrub with their head in the sand
And I know its coming so Ill preempt it, the "Its a game and not realistic" argument holds no water because hey its a game so why shouldnt I get to destroy everything with a pen light
Oh and the "Its the future, technology is better" argument also falls short since weapons tech is constantly developing to counter armor technology, I mean hell even decades old RPGs can turn the crew of a tank into salsa and thats not getting into anything modern and how it gets past defensive counter measures |
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Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar
Silver Bullet Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
570
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
"AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard. It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless. If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit. You do realize you made rhe exact argument about IAV. If we can't kill tanks better than tanks what tactical purpose does it serve? More importantly why does one player get to have this huge advantage over one class of player and complete invulnerability to another without giving up the ability to kill everyone else?
your little infantry av wepons wor perfectly well against LAVs and derpships that is its main function not killing anti-infantry tanks |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
259
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:19:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Because logic has to be counter-balanced by stupidity?
Nah, because not a single person on these forums, or in-game has been able to provide a logical reason as to why the current V/AV situation is imbalanced. You included. It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be. Where exactly have I been unclear in this? Are you becoming confused, perchance? No you have been very clear, you want a huge advatage over other players and have no reasoning to support why you should be given this advantage other than "I want to be a big tank".
This is the same pointless thread over and over. I will repeat MYSELF in saying:
The only tankers that can beat a skilled infantry AV'er in 1 vs 1 are actually skilled tankers. If you have reasonable skills in AV then you can be average or below average tankers. It is definitely balanced. If a very skilled tanker with triple rep maddy can't be killed by a single infantry then that is perfectly balanced. It should take two reasonable to very skilled infantry AV'ers to take out that VERY skilled tanker.
All of that being said, I think there is a misunderstanding that EVERYONE should be good at AV. This is not the case. Only those that skill into things that associate with AV should be good at AV. And then those same people have to experiment and practice a lot. Similar to an ADS pilot. No one is a SKILLED ADS pilot on the first try. So no one should be skilled in AV.
If you run Proto Logi and no other suit types and think some swarms should make you good AV then you are very mistaken. You will have to add RE's and 2 complex kinkats. In addition, if you don't have a side arm don't expect to survive so you better be A-Logi. I hope this paints a picture. You also want full Dampening so only extra precision enhanced Cal scouts can see you. You must also not approach when multiple tanks are around.
If you are heavy with a forge then you must be at higher ground. Typically come in with a cheap suit and fly around the map at early spawn and put some uplinks a few hundred meters away from the null or from the center of the ambush map as well as hives at your main point. Then suicide and come in with the forge fit with damage mods and armor plates. Also have a strong side arm such as SMG or Magsec or something you are skilled with some prof for all of the other people that might fly and try to kill you on the top of the said building. You also put uplinks in various top places simply to be able respawn somewhere high if an orbital is called on you.
My fit with AV nades and RE's is simple. Double complex damp, complex kinkat, basic cloak, basic RE's, proto AV nades, 3 complex shields, Adv/Std CR and Flaylock all on my min scout. When cloaked CAL scouts can't pick me up. Always put the RE's on the back and if the tank starts moving run away and not towards it and approach it later to get a second or third RE on it. You have two choices at this point, throw your two proto av nades and then detonate OR wait until you see that it's shields are gone and detonate the RE's. Always put the RE's on the weak spot. At the minimum two on the weak spot.
Anyway, you get the point. If you aren't approaching one of the two later strategies don't expect anything. You sacrifice a lot of other cool things if you decide to go AV. I don't have as much variety to run in other areas as Infantry vs Infantry.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
|
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8223
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:28:00 -
[103] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be.
Where exactly have I been unclear in this?
Are you becoming confused, perchance?
You can state what you desire, and be clear as glass. However, that won't change the fact that your statement/assertion is false. Repeating it over and over again will not change said fact either.
Also, CCP has already stated otherwise; so why do you still attempt to sell your argument as if it was designed to be that way?
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3997
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:45:00 -
[104] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be.
Where exactly have I been unclear in this?
Are you becoming confused, perchance?
You can state what you desire, and be clear as glass. However, that won't change the fact that your statement/assertion is false. Repeating it over and over again will not change said fact either. Also, CCP has already stated otherwise; so why do you still attempt to sell your argument as if it was designed to be that way?
If CCP currently believes tanks are too good, then CCP is wrong. In the current iteration of this game, tanks control half the map and the infantry control the other half. It is a good balance and if it was not designed that way, it was a happy accident that resulted in a fairly good basis for competitive play.
PC will see basically no tank usage whatsoever if they are nerfed further and everyone in the planetary conquest community will be happy to embarrass CCP's balance team by showing them the hard numbers on how pathetic they will be if infantry can stand toe-to-toe with them. |
Forlorn Destrier
2474
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? I think the point is, it's rendering everything useless but missile tanks against them. So forge guns and swarm launchers are worthless now and those who spent those hard earned skill points are a little upset. Shouldn't there be a stacking penalty? You guys made it so there is no point in armor plating, it's all about the hardeners and reps, unless you're a shield tank. I can't fit a missile turret on my madrugar anyway, so there's a personal thanks for that from me. But from what I hear, there won't be any care or attention to Dust anymore, so we're all crying in the rain really.
Two advanced forge guns can take care of them as well, FYI. Teamwork is what the game is about and teamwork wins out. |
Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
7437
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:54:00 -
[106] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:I'm assuming you've never used the forge gun or you have never actually ran into a proto repping tank.
LOL, I found this so funny. Himiko, who has been a Heavy since I don't even know when, has never used a Forge Gun. Genius!
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3997
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:00:00 -
[107] - Quote
I don't even know why I bother, Patrick.
Trying to teach competitive balance to casuals is basically impossible. No matter what you say or do, they will always believe they have a valid seat at the discussion table and that their uneducated word is worth more in volume than those with experience.
You know, I hear in Mormonism that their belief for God and Satan's falling out had to do with a difference in the plan for Earth. Something along the lines of God wanting to grant free will to man, and Satan wanting to control their actions so that they all head down the correct path.
If any of that was true, I might just convert to Satanism soon. Some of these clowns are too damn stupid to have any manner of free will. |
Lynn Beck
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
1664
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:12:00 -
[108] - Quote
Tanks should become a serious threat, we have that.
Tanks need their counter, we don't have that.
AV is a futile attempt at dispatching a vehicle, and the only way to guarantee their death(because isk destruction is the name of the game, always has) is for them to hit a wall or for you to literally deal 5400 alpha damage, which requires the tanker to be completely inept.
AV should be a threat to tanks, much like how a tank is a threat to infantry.
A single AVer should be able to solo a solo tank- it should take on average(assuming both builds are MAXED) 9 volleys from a swarm. A prototype maxed AVer should be able to solo a mlt tanker in 1 clip, and a "mid-spec" character in average of 6,
This leaves the tanker at a disadvantage, while still makin them strong. Please, somebody tell me how 9 volleys is a bad number for equal skill/SP in vehicles is a bad idea? Currently it's 12.
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
779
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:21:00 -
[109] - Quote
ive used the triple rep mad fit quite a bit..took so long to invest all that sp in there at one time after saving for a few months since i theory crafted it with the use of pen paper and calculator during 1.7. and created it near the end.
the explanation that ccp logibro gave is pretty spot on how it works.
though that constant damage can really only be sustained temporarily by the tank the fit can handle it just long enough until the player attacking it has to reload. or cool down his/her blaster turret.
and since its really only possible to use the fit with a blaster turret you now have an extra set of cons that comes with it.
y i prefer to use the tank fit is because of the good reps/fast recovery.
those reps have saved my tank from destruction on many occasions even during other tank fights.
though this is also due to my relatively good driving skill. and knowledge of what to avoid what to attack and so on.when to fall back.
as well as my ability to successfully manage to consistently break line of fire from the enemy tank whilst keeping my turret on them and firing in bursts.
even so there are moments where ive lost the tank within less than a second to av.
2 forge gunners alternating their shots will kill the tank fast. as well. as some other scenarios.my advice to surviving in it is if u see more than one forge gun...run...
the rep maddies been relatively easy to counter though so i dont have any problems with that specific fit.
but 5 rail gunlogis/sicas all grouped has been next to impossible to ward off or destroy. even with 2-3 forge gunners focusing fire. as well as with bringing out other tanks to try and deal with the problem. as the rail tanks can just all fire at the one vehicle coming down and insta kill it. fortunately its been a fairly rare occurrence for me.though sometimes im pretty sure if the assault forges clip size was five. id be able to kill just about any tank i come across with ease.
mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere...
dust 514 shall be eternal.
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8225
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:42:00 -
[110] - Quote
M1A1 Blaster Master wrote:My triple rep maddy has an Ion cannon and it will lose to organized AV, rail tanks that sneak me, scouts with remote charges on my engine plate and missile tanks. The triple rep maddy is not an iWin button. It's akin to a shotgun scout, get in blow **** up and get out. If it sticks around too long it will die. People that are mad about it really have no right to blame their enemy for their own incompetence.
What HAV doesn't die to Rail Tanks? That's like saying 1.6 Swarm Launchers weren't a win button because they could be killed by a Logi with a Duvolle AR.
If you are killed by Remote Explosives, you are mentally challenged:
Atiim wrote:- Arming Time of REs: 1s
- Grenade Cook Time: 3.31s
- Time it would take to do this: 6.31s
- Average Human Reaction Time: .215s
Basically, the tankers you were fighting were 29.34x slower than the average human. Did you make this thread to make fun of mentally challenged players? Because If so, I'd be forced to report you.
So basically that leaves 1-2 actual counters, which are both subsets of itself. Do I need to remind everyone that a counter being a subset to itself does not count as an actual counter?
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8225
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:43:00 -
[111] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Teamwork is what the game is about and teamwork wins out.
Unless you use a tank.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
3999
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:44:00 -
[112] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Tanks should become a serious threat, we have that.
Tanks need their counter, we don't have that.
AV is a futile attempt at dispatching a vehicle, and the only way to guarantee their death(because isk destruction is the name of the game, always has) is for them to hit a wall or for you to literally deal 5400 alpha damage, which requires the tanker to be completely inept.
AV should be a threat to tanks, much like how a tank is a threat to infantry.
A single AVer should be able to solo a solo tank- it should take on average(assuming both builds are MAXED) 9 volleys from a swarm. A prototype maxed AVer should be able to solo a mlt tanker in 1 clip, and a "mid-spec" character in average of 6,
This leaves the tanker at a disadvantage, while still makin them strong. Please, somebody tell me how 9 volleys is a bad number for equal skill/SP in vehicles is a bad idea? Currently it's 12.
Thats a complete and utter joke. I don't give a **** about the low end of balance, the high end is the only part that matters. We don't play competitively with crappy characters and crappy gear. They shouldn't even fit into the balance equation.
Even vehicles in Battlefield can take more punishment than the time it takes to empty a swarm launcher. Those things are basically steel coffins and you want to make these things even weaker? |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2807
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Posted - 2014.05.09 21:54:00 -
[113] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
23,000,000 SP is hardly an 'Emergency Role'.
You are one man, you have no right to be any more powerful than any one else, it is simple arthematic (spelling?)
So long as you are single person wether you see yourself as something more is irrespective.
You are one man and there for it should only require 1 man to take you down, WITHOUT a tank.
Especially if the guy has put more SP into his fit and sacrifices pretty much all of his Anti-Personnel ability.
If anyone is pathetic it's the guy with short man syndrome sitting in a tank which is immune to 80% of the games weaponry and whines because he still believes he shouldn't be killed by weapons that are actually designated as being ANTI-VEHICLE, capiece!
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
779
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Posted - 2014.05.09 22:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank. 23,000,000 SP is hardly an 'Emergency Role'. You are one man, you have no right to be any more powerful than any one else, it is simple arthematic (spelling?) So long as you are single person wether you see yourself as something more is irrespective. You are one man and there for it should only require 1 man to take you down, WITHOUT a tank. Especially if the guy has put more SP into his fit and sacrifices pretty much all of his Anti-Personnel ability. If anyone is pathetic it's the guy with short man syndrome sitting in a tank which is immune to 80% of the games weaponry and whines because he still believes he shouldn't be killed by weapons that are actually designated as being ANTI-VEHICLE, capiece!
it does take one man to kill a tank. just like how it takes one man to kill a heavy or one man to kill a mlt new berry. as the several before may have died before him. the last man to try and succeed where the others before have failed. the last man is still ONE man.
lets say im in a heavy suit. i slaughter an entire group of proto bears. only to die by a mlt ar when i had 5 hp left. that mlt newberry is still one man. who had the luck of killing me whilst at low hp.
also...i think every1 here has just diverted topic away from threads purpose..
mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere...
dust 514 shall be eternal.
pve for dust 514
|
LtGen Shanks
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
What the hell have you all done to my thread?!
I made this to show my appreciation for the people who were deploying and letting blueberries use their triple rep maddys. Go argue in another thread, and leave mine alone. |
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8229
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:13:00 -
[116] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Thats a complete and utter joke. I don't give a **** about the low end of balance, the high end is the only part that matters. We don't play competitively with crappy characters and crappy gear. They shouldn't even fit into the balance equation.
If you truly cared about the high end balance, you'd still be campaigning for the re-balance simply because the Swarm Launcher is not viable in competitive game-modes. I believe it would be most accurate to say that you only care about the high end balance and how beneficial it is to vehicles.
Not that your opinion actually means anything, as CCP has already passed their judgement on the matter. A passive tanking option being stronger than active tanking is not balanced, nor is AVers not beiing able to reliably solo vehicles while still giving up a primary balanced. - As confirmed by CCP.
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Even vehicles in Battlefield can take more punishment than the time it takes to empty a swarm launcher. Those things are basically steel coffins and you want to make these things even weaker?
Not really sure how that's ridiculous.
Under Lynn's model, it would take a total of 17.85s (not including SL travel time) to destroy a maxed out vehicle. Allow me to place that into perspective.
A Madrugar, has a base movement speed of 22.5 m/s. In the time it would take to destroy said HAV, it could be 401.6m away from the offending AVer (which is 2.2x a SL's locking range. Meaning that smart piloting and evasive action would allow the HAV pilot to surive, with a very generous expectation.
In your next reply, please post something other than elitist dribble.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
|
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8229
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:14:00 -
[117] - Quote
LtGen Shanks wrote:What the hell have you all done to my thread?!
I made this to show my appreciation for the people who were deploying and letting blueberries use their triple rep maddys. Go argue in another thread, and leave mine alone.
My condolences for your loss.
However, the creation of this thread has finally ended our harsh winter, and should be looked upon as a historical monument. I shall send you ISK for your troubles.
'Good day sir.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
|
LtGen Shanks
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:19:00 -
[118] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I shall send you ISK for your troubles.
'Good day sir.
I will always love you. |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2811
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
First of all, I know the DEV's don't care about Dust anymore but do you really need to be quite so . . . . . Coarse?
Secondly, you truly believe that you should have to use a tank to beat a tank? Do you not as a game developer see a problem with that? It's linear escalation, it eventually becomes spam. You obviously understand that most tanks require a Burst of DPS to take out, then you choose to execlude Burst DPS methods from AV weaponry?
First off you took an AV grenade from us, cutting out BURST damage by 1100, then you make RE deployment sounds so loud I have to time it so that I deploy them as the tank fires. Then you make forge guns fire so slowly you actually cannot damage a repper madrugar with them.
Give a 'skilled' AVer the ability to do burst dmg.
TRIPLE the distance before swarm rockets begin to home, to about 50-70m, then add an extra 50m range, this turns the swarm launcher into a long range weapon, BUT by locking onto a tank and changing the trajectories with each volley allows all of them to hit almost simultaneously.
Then make the Plasma Cannon a 3 round burst weapon, give it a longer charge time, make the burst automatic and reduce the splash damage to 40. Increase the direct damage by 10%
Then give Forge Guns a much smaller charge time and lower delay between shots, when the trigger is held down. If you understand that infantry AV should be all about BURST dmg, then for the love of god, don't make the mistake you made here in DUST in Project Legion.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
CLONE117
True Pros Forever
779
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:24:00 -
[120] - Quote
passive got the best rep rate for armor.
active has the much superior damage output and tankability though.
capable of dealing with the passive tank rather easily.
y does my hardener stacked tanks have the capability to survive a direct orbital strike or several railgun shots in quick succession. whilst my stacked reps tank dies in less than half a second to those various things.
passive tanking in my opinion is where it should be.
mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere...
dust 514 shall be eternal.
pve for dust 514
|
|
|
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2812
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:31:00 -
[121] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank. 23,000,000 SP is hardly an 'Emergency Role'. You are one man, you have no right to be any more powerful than any one else, it is simple arthematic (spelling?) So long as you are single person wether you see yourself as something more is irrespective. You are one man and there for it should only require 1 man to take you down, WITHOUT a tank. Especially if the guy has put more SP into his fit and sacrifices pretty much all of his Anti-Personnel ability. If anyone is pathetic it's the guy with short man syndrome sitting in a tank which is immune to 80% of the games weaponry and whines because he still believes he shouldn't be killed by weapons that are actually designated as being ANTI-VEHICLE, capiece! it does take one man to kill a tank. just like how it takes one man to kill a heavy or one man to kill a mlt new berry. as the several before may have died before him. the last man to try and succeed where the others before have failed. the last man is still ONE man. lets say im in a heavy suit. i slaughter an entire group of proto bears. only to die by a mlt ar when i had 5 hp left. that mlt newberry is still one man. who had the luck of killing me whilst at low hp. also...i think every1 here has just diverted topic away from threads purpose..
To the contrary though, if you manage to take down a squad of proto bears with a Heavy that's because those bears are stupid.
I can kill a heavy with a HMG by outranging by myself, from Scratch.
I can kill a Sniper by getting close with a Shotgun by myslef, from Scratch.
I can kill an Assault with a heavy with a HMG at close range, by myself from Scratch.
That is the point, EVERYTHING in this game apart from tanks and the FOTM can be COUNTERED by using a fitting that has a different sweet spot. But with a tank, the sweet spot for AV, also happens to be the same as the sweet spot for a blaster tank, isn't that just genius.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
|
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
654
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:54:00 -
[122] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:[quote=Himiko Kuronaga][quote=Atiim][quote=Himiko Kuronaga]
Because logic has to be counter-balanced
It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be.
Where exactly have I been unclear in this?
Are you becoming confused, perchance? No you have been very clear, you want a huge advatage over other players and have no reasoning to support why you should be given this advantage other than "I want to be a big tank".
This is the same pointless thread over and over. I will repeat MYSELF in saying:
The only tankers that can beat a skilled infantry AV'er in 1 vs 1 are actually skilled tankers. If you have reasonable skills in AV then you can be average or below average tankers. It is definitely balanced. If a very skilled tanker with triple rep maddy can't be killed by a single infantry then that is perfectly balanced. It should take two reasonable to very skilled infantry AV'ers to take out that VERY skilled tanker.
Nothing Certain wrote:
There is a contradiction in what you wrote above first you stated "Tanks>AV. That's how it should be" then you wrote that tanks and AV should be equal. Which is it?
We agree that balance implies that an IAV player and a tanker with equal ISK expenditure, SP, and skill should have equal chances of killing each other. We disagree that this is the current situation in the game. Having had this discussion many times I can tell you that most tankers don't share this view and believe tanks should be much more powerful than 1 IAV player and that tanks should not be soloed.
Thanks for explaining your tactics but they are not anything every AV player us well aware of. Take me up on my offer and join the channel. I believe you can kill tanks, so lets do it rather than arguing about whether we have balance or not.
Because, that's why.
|
CLONE117
True Pros Forever
780
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:56:00 -
[123] - Quote
not sure im following with these "sweet spots"
and how av sweet spot is the same as a blaster tanks
blaster may be better suited to dealing with infantry units in certain scenarios.
but as av usually has more than just infantry with rocket launchers. its more of a break off of a similar class.
tanks typically weak to av.
average infantry generally weak to tanks
its possible for the tank to kill the infantry unit but its still possible for the infantry unit to kill the tank. when equipped with the right gear and scenario.
av personnel might as well be considered infantry too. but just an area of infantry that worked on their weakness. same can be said with certain tank fits.
mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere...
dust 514 shall be eternal.
pve for dust 514
|
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
261
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 22:56:00 -
[124] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:
Thanks for explaining your tactics but they are not anything every AV player us well aware of. Take me up on my offer and join the channel. I believe you can kill tanks, so lets do it rather than arguing about whether we have balance or not.
Lol I'm in the A/V United channel now. Msg me next time you see me on. I live in Hawaii so my times are a little off for playing comparison to other people due to the timezones. I'll be on tonight well before downtime.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
|
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
654
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 23:01:00 -
[125] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:
Thanks for explaining your tactics but they are not anything every AV player us well aware of. Take me up on my offer and join the channel. I believe you can kill tanks, so lets do it rather than arguing about whether we have balance or not.
Lol I'm in the A/V United channel now. Msg me next time you see me on. I live in Hawaii so my times are a little off for playing comparison to other people due to the timezones. I'll be on tonight well before downtime.
Cool, thanks for showing up. Hopefully more will. I'll be on tonight 9 CST. I'll contact you tonight and look for you tomorrow if you are not on.u
Because, that's why.
|
M1A1 Blaster Master
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Dirt Nap Squad.
12
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 23:20:00 -
[126] - Quote
Atiim wrote:M1A1 Blaster Master wrote:My triple rep maddy has an Ion cannon and it will lose to organized AV, rail tanks that sneak me, scouts with remote charges on my engine plate and missile tanks. The triple rep maddy is not an iWin button. It's akin to a shotgun scout, get in blow **** up and get out. If it sticks around too long it will die. People that are mad about it really have no right to blame their enemy for their own incompetence. What HAV doesn't die to Rail Tanks? That's like saying 1.6 Swarm Launchers weren't a win button because they could be killed by a Logi with a Duvolle AR. If you are killed by Remote Explosives, you are mentally challenged: Atiim wrote:- Arming Time of REs: 1s
- Grenade Cook Time: 3.31s
- Time it would take to do this: 6.31s
- Average Human Reaction Time: .215s
Basically, the tankers you were fighting were 29.34x slower than the average human. Did you make this thread to make fun of mentally challenged players? Because If so, I'd be forced to report you. So basically that leaves 1-2 actual counters, which are both subsets of itself. Do I need to remind everyone that a counter being a subset to itself does not count as an actual counter?
If I face 2-3 AV infantry that synchronize their shots I am dead in a trip-rep maddy. If I face a missile tank head on I am dead, If a rail tank catches me in the open I am dead. A cloaked scout that sneaks up behind me and gets some charges on my tank I am dead. There are counters to a trip-rep maddy. Hell just get another blaster tank to shoot at me and have a forge gunner hit me at the same time, and I am dead. Triple rep maddy is balanced just fine, it's just that some people don't have the counters and they are mad because of it.
I also have a twice damage modded particle cannon that 2 hits other tanks, is that unbalanced as well? |
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
288
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 00:13:00 -
[127] - Quote
M1A1 Blaster Master wrote:Atiim wrote:M1A1 Blaster Master wrote:My triple rep maddy has an Ion cannon and it will lose to organized AV, rail tanks that sneak me, scouts with remote charges on my engine plate and missile tanks. The triple rep maddy is not an iWin button. It's akin to a shotgun scout, get in blow **** up and get out. If it sticks around too long it will die. People that are mad about it really have no right to blame their enemy for their own incompetence. What HAV doesn't die to Rail Tanks? That's like saying 1.6 Swarm Launchers weren't a win button because they could be killed by a Logi with a Duvolle AR. If you are killed by Remote Explosives, you are mentally challenged: Atiim wrote:- Arming Time of REs: 1s
- Grenade Cook Time: 3.31s
- Time it would take to do this: 6.31s
- Average Human Reaction Time: .215s
Basically, the tankers you were fighting were 29.34x slower than the average human. Did you make this thread to make fun of mentally challenged players? Because If so, I'd be forced to report you. So basically that leaves 1-2 actual counters, which are both subsets of itself. Do I need to remind everyone that a counter being a subset to itself does not count as an actual counter? If I face 2-3 AV infantry that synchronize their shots I am dead in a trip-rep maddy. If I face a missile tank head on I am dead, If a rail tank catches me in the open I am dead. A cloaked scout that sneaks up behind me and gets some charges on my tank I am dead. There are counters to a trip-rep maddy. Hell just get another blaster tank to shoot at me and have a forge gunner hit me at the same time, and I am dead. Triple rep maddy is balanced just fine, it's just that some people don't have the counters and they are mad because of it. I also have a twice damage modded particle cannon that 2 hits other tanks, is that unbalanced as well?
Railguns are OP so yes they are unbalanced So are the damage mods. Anyway, you miss the point. Needing 3 people to kill one person is inbalanced. Especially when it is a standard tank with proto or advance modules against proto av. |
Lynn Beck
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
1665
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 00:59:00 -
[128] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Tanks should become a serious threat, we have that.
Tanks need their counter, we don't have that.
AV is a futile attempt at dispatching a vehicle, and the only way to guarantee their death(because isk destruction is the name of the game, always has) is for them to hit a wall or for you to literally deal 5400 alpha damage, which requires the tanker to be completely inept.
AV should be a threat to tanks, much like how a tank is a threat to infantry.
A single AVer should be able to solo a solo tank- it should take on average(assuming both builds are MAXED) 9 volleys from a swarm. A prototype maxed AVer should be able to solo a mlt tanker in 1 clip, and a "mid-spec" character in average of 6,
This leaves the tanker at a disadvantage, while still makin them strong. Please, somebody tell me how 9 volleys is a bad number for equal skill/SP in vehicles is a bad idea? Currently it's 12. Thats a complete and utter joke. I don't give a **** about the low end of balance, the high end is the only part that matters. We don't play competitively with crappy characters and crappy gear. They shouldn't even fit into the balance equation. Even vehicles in Battlefield can take more punishment than the time it takes to empty a swarm launcher. Those things are basically steel coffins and you want to make these things even weaker?
So you would prefer if any person who wishes to bring in a Sica to academy be entitled to NEVER dying?
That's how it is now.
We need balance to exist on all tiers.
Needing either Pro AV or a completely inept tanker AND 3-4 mlt swarms SIMPLY to remove that un-piloted sica sitting idle, is ********.
Give me 1 reason we SHOULDN'T balance mlt-mlt AV/V balance.
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
|
TrueXer0z
DUST University
Ivy League
532
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 01:17:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
This is a VERY specific situation. There shouldn't be only one answer to a trip rep maddy. Every form of AV should have a significant chance at bringing one down.
Director, Dust University
@TrueXer0z
Kevall Longstride - CPM1
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
763
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 02:40:00 -
[130] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled.
That's irrelevant as most sidearms are comparable in DPS to many light weapons.
TDBS
My * points to her interface{} if you know what I mean
|
|
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Void Echo
Total Extinction
2572
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 02:46:00 -
[131] - Quote
if you make tanks as weak as they were pre 1.7 either 1/2 scenarios would be reality.
1- Tanks would exist anymore because they would be too weak to use, thus nobody would use them.
2- only a handful of people (me and about 19 others were this group before 1.7) would be tankers, the tanking class would become the elitist group we were before 1.7 and no new tankers would enter the field because they wont survive. thus when those select players leave tanks disappear.
If AV/V balance isn't right still, then the only logical way would to be buff AV, do nothing to vehicles. The reason why STD tanks are so strong against AV is because they are the highest level of tanks we have, do you really expect people to use STD as the highest level of class since no proto exists when its utterly useless for survival against its opposite class until proto versions exist?
Closed Beta Vet.
Playstation 4 or nothing CCP.
Only the strongest can do good and the weakest do evil. - Void Echo
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8258
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 02:52:00 -
[132] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:
That's irrelevant as most sidearms are comparable in DPS to many light weapons.
Really?
- Ishukone Assault SMG vs Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle - Who Wins?
- Kaalakiota Masgec SMG vs Kaalakiota Rail Rifle - Who Wins?
- Vizam Scrambler Pistol vs. Vizam Scrambler Rifle - Who Wins?
- Core Breach Flaylock Pistol vs. Core Breach Mass Driver - Who Wins?
- Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle vs. Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle - Who Wins?
Assuming equal player skill, I know where my money is.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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Sergeant Sazu
SINISTER DEATH SQUAD
42
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 02:59:00 -
[133] - Quote
Interesting discussion.
I do remember one encounter with an Ion Cannon and the best reapir rate possible. I got comfy on my K-2 Nanohives sitting on high ground, firing my CBR7 Swarms with x2 Enhanced Damage Mods. It was impossible to kill it, though at the end of the clip I would get it's armor to about half. So I shot at it the entire game until a Sica came along and helped with damage, so I squeezed in a shot to get the kill. He sent me a message saying I was the only one actually being a problem to him.
There's a little story for now, tomorrow I will provide my opinion on the matter.
-Grabs dual Assault Rifle Gallente Commando-
You know what time it is.
[SDS CEO]
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Dirt Nap Squad.
4005
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:20:00 -
[134] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Tanks should become a serious threat, we have that.
Tanks need their counter, we don't have that.
AV is a futile attempt at dispatching a vehicle, and the only way to guarantee their death(because isk destruction is the name of the game, always has) is for them to hit a wall or for you to literally deal 5400 alpha damage, which requires the tanker to be completely inept.
AV should be a threat to tanks, much like how a tank is a threat to infantry.
A single AVer should be able to solo a solo tank- it should take on average(assuming both builds are MAXED) 9 volleys from a swarm. A prototype maxed AVer should be able to solo a mlt tanker in 1 clip, and a "mid-spec" character in average of 6,
This leaves the tanker at a disadvantage, while still makin them strong. Please, somebody tell me how 9 volleys is a bad number for equal skill/SP in vehicles is a bad idea? Currently it's 12. Thats a complete and utter joke. I don't give a **** about the low end of balance, the high end is the only part that matters. We don't play competitively with crappy characters and crappy gear. They shouldn't even fit into the balance equation. Even vehicles in Battlefield can take more punishment than the time it takes to empty a swarm launcher. Those things are basically steel coffins and you want to make these things even weaker? So you would prefer if any person who wishes to bring in a Sica to academy be entitled to NEVER dying? That's how it is now. We need balance to exist on all tiers. Needing either Pro AV or a completely inept tanker AND 3-4 mlt swarms SIMPLY to remove that un-piloted sica sitting idle, is ********. Give me 1 reason we SHOULDN'T balance mlt-mlt AV/V balance.
If someone can't kill a Sica they need to quit the game and never come back.
|
M1A1 Blaster Master
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Dirt Nap Squad.
14
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:29:00 -
[135] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
Railguns are OP so yes they are unbalanced So are the damage mods. Anyway, you miss the point. Needing 3 people to kill one person is inbalanced. Especially when it is a standard tank with proto or advance modules against proto av.
But you only need one if they are in a tank, and 2 different types of tank can kill a triple rep maddy. We will even say that railguns are OP, which they are, and exclude them. That still leaves missile tanks, who **** all over triple rep maddys. It also leaves RE packing scouts. So that right there is 2 people that can solo a triple rep maddy. Don't hate the game, hate the player.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2815
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 10:46:00 -
[136] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:not sure im following with these "sweet spots"
and how av sweet spot is the same as a blaster tanks
blaster may be better suited to dealing with infantry units in certain scenarios.
but as av usually has more than just infantry with rocket launchers. its more of a break off of a similar class.
tanks typically weak to av.
average infantry generally weak to tanks
its possible for the tank to kill the infantry unit but its still possible for the infantry unit to kill the tank. when equipped with the right gear and scenario.
av personnel might as well be considered infantry too. but just an area of infantry that worked on their weakness. same can be said with certain tank fits.
What is difficult to understand about a sweet spot?
A sweet spot is a combination of ramge and terrain layouts that benefit 1 person more than another.
For example a HMG's sweet spot is at around 15-20m in a narrow corridor, where the enemy can't escape the spread of the HMG, the Sweet spot of a Sniper Rifle is at about 200m overlooking a large empty plain with little cover.
So let's look at AV, it has 2 potential 'Sweet Spots'
1) 50-70m inside a facility with lots of cover.
Allows the infantry to hide when they have been made, however the cover can also be used by a repdrugar since just a few seconds not under fire to fully rep.
2) 100-150m across open ground
Allows the infantry to get a longer sustained DPS as the longer travel time of a swarm launcher gives a higher chance of emptying the entire mag before the tanker reacts, however there is no cover so the AV is typically dead as soon as he has been made.
Like Logibro rather condescendingly mentioned a repdrugar is all about drawing out engagements and the best way to get them is to use BURST dmg, to apply so much damage in such a short period of time thatmthe reps physically don't have time to react.
Now, it is 'doable' by AV provided the Tanker driving the repdrugar is
1) Stationery
2) Blind/in 1st Person (ADS)
3) Death
4) Thick as Pig ****
And even then it requires 2RE, 2 Packed AV gremades, 3 SL volleys to destroy him with just 20dmg to spare, if so much as single swarm launcher rocket hits the ground first, you loose the encounter.
If the tanker is in 3rd person he can see as you attempt to stick RE to his sweet spot.
If the tanker listens he can HEAR you attaching the RE
If he has jist a single brain cell he doesn't stick around in the same place, away from his allies long enough for you sneak close enough to attach the RE's.
Once one side has tanker superiority, the match becomes a game of cat and mouse. The tanks chase roundmmlt blueberries from point to point because they can't do anything about it. Meanwhile me with my AV, I can't physically do enough damage in a short amount of time, to even scare them off, because they know as soon as I reload, they go back to square 1.
Either consider the tweaks I gave to logibro, making swarm volleys require skill but allow them to be overlapped by a good player, and give burst variations to forge and plasma cannons. Or give us BREACH RE that does HUGE damage 3000-4500 when stuck directly to a vehicles hull.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1009
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Posted - 2014.05.10 11:37:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
What if the other team does not have access to a Large Missile Launcher tank?
There is no militia version. |
Mortedeamor
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1517
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Posted - 2014.05.10 11:51:00 -
[138] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
In otherwords get gud
A laser rifle user for life
Long live the empress burn the heritics
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LtGen Shanks
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2014.05.10 12:25:00 -
[139] - Quote
Since this thread is getting a decent amount of attention, would anyone like to donate some isk to me. |
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8271
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Posted - 2014.05.10 14:36:00 -
[140] - Quote
LtGen Shanks wrote:Since this thread is getting a decent amount of attention, would anyone like to donate some isk to me.
I'll be on in about an hour.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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M1A1 Blaster Master
Capital Acquisitions LLC
16
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Posted - 2014.05.10 14:52:00 -
[141] - Quote
Atiim wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Since this thread is getting a decent amount of attention, would anyone like to donate some isk to me. I'll be on in about an hour.
Give me some ISK as well, I could use it. |
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Dirt Nap Squad.
8276
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Posted - 2014.05.10 15:00:00 -
[142] - Quote
M1A1 Blaster Master wrote:
Give me some ISK as well, I could use it.
No.
CCP Rouge (Crowd Control Productions - 'Neo' EVE: Legion) DUST 514
-HAND
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DEATH DEALER 1975
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
28
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Posted - 2014.05.10 15:35:00 -
[143] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? I think the point is, it's rendering everything useless but missile tanks against them. So forge guns and swarm launchers are worthless now and those who spent those hard earned skill points are a little upset. Shouldn't there be a stacking penalty? You guys made it so there is no point in armor plating, it's all about the hardeners and reps, unless you're a shield tank. I can't fit a missile turret on my madrugar anyway, so there's a personal thanks for that from me. But from what I hear, there won't be any care or attention to Dust anymore, so we're all crying in the rain really.
Don't forget three remotes on a triple rep HAV and he's done for.
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M1A1 Blaster Master
Capital Acquisitions LLC
16
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Posted - 2014.05.10 15:40:00 -
[144] - Quote
Atiim wrote:M1A1 Blaster Master wrote:
Give me some ISK as well, I could use it.
No.
You're not very nice. |
zzZaXxx
The Phoenix Federation
412
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Posted - 2014.05.10 18:11:00 -
[145] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you? I think the point is, it's rendering everything useless but missile tanks against them. So forge guns and swarm launchers are worthless now and those who spent those hard earned skill points are a little upset. Shouldn't there be a stacking penalty? You guys made it so there is no point in armor plating, it's all about the hardeners and reps, unless you're a shield tank. I can't fit a missile turret on my madrugar anyway, so there's a personal thanks for that from me. But from what I hear, there won't be any care or attention to Dust anymore, so we're all crying in the rain really.
Triple reps counter FG and SL but 2-3 will take one down. And it leaves them vulnerable to rail and missile in a head on engagement. |
Sergeant Sazu
SINISTER DEATH SQUAD
42
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Posted - 2014.05.11 00:26:00 -
[146] - Quote
I love making giant paragraphs voicing my opinion, but I'll try and make it short-ish this time.
If a tank sits in one spot, it should not be eternally invincible to a single AVer. It simply isn't okay. I dislike how people have come to accept this and try to defend it. No. If I put SP into something and eliminate my self-defense to infantry, it should have atleast some effect. Yes there are counters to the triple-rep, but that is not justification, as there are too few, and most of them include getting my own tank. I am totally fine with a tank being very hard to kill, but if it's completely immune to my attempts, that's not okay. I'm not asking for easy mode, I'm asking for a possibility of succeeding if I'm firing damage modded CBR7s non-stop.
The whole point of armor focused things in this game is to have single engagement superiority but have a low recovery rate compared to shields. I could grab my Assault Gk.0 and stack 4 Complex Armor Repaireres and have 27.5hp/s, but it doesn't nearly out repair even a Militia Assault Rifle. Why should tanks be different with the weapons intended for killing it?
If you ask me, repairers should be nerfed and all Gallente vehicles have their armor increased significantly. This would create 1 on 1 superiority but recover slowly, just like armor tanked dropsuits. If I had to think up numbers, I would say:
-Repairer efficacy 50% percent of what it is now (50 STD,60 ADV,70 PRO)
-Increase base armor by 50% (Madrugar 6000, Methana 3675, I forgot the dropship numbers)
But yeah. With these exact numbers, the best repair rate would be 250 I think. This is with 2 Complex and 1 Enhanced heavy repairers. I don't know if these numbers would work out, but my point is that it needs to be at least possible to kill it with a good Swarm Launcher if the tank sticks around.
Hardeners aside, no tank should be eteranlly immune to a single weapon firing continuously and not missing. I have seen some math saying that a damage modded Isukone Assault Forge Gun can kill the triple-rep in 4 consecutive shots. Whether or not that's true, very few have the necessary skills for such a thing.
Point is, I want my SP to mean something, instead of firing swarm after swarm only to get Ion Cannoned in the face. Or shot by infantry. Defend it if you want, but this is imbalanced.
-Grabs dual Assault Rifle Gallente Commando-
You know what time it is.
[SDS CEO]
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