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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3977
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 12:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:LtGen Shanks wrote:Thanks to the individuals who have been spamming free triple rep maddys in domination.
They're great! Huh? Triple Rep (2x Complex, 1x Enhanced) Madrugars are vulnerable to Large Missile Launcher fitted tanks due to the massive burst damage from missiles with a damage mod; lower buffer due to a lack of either a plate or hardener to absorb damage; and the damage bonus missiles get against armour. The Triple rep Madrugar works by drawing out fights where it's superiour sustained tank can help it keep going under constant moderate damage. But with the Large Missile Turret, there isn't enough time to get repairs going to keep the tank sustained, and thus it blows up. However, if you miss with enough missiles, the Madrugar can easily regain it's armour and then you might have some problems due to your long reload time, especially if you had to expose yourself to get the shot on the Madrugar in the first place. Does that explain it for you?
Thank you for breaking it down.
They will still whine about it though. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3978
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled.
No, you're not.
You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork.
Stick to the fields. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote: Oh, I see, you're one of the people who use those rep tanks c:
That explains your completely bias disposition
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. You resorting to trolling must mean that you cannot refute logically, and that I have won. GG was EZ.
I'm not giving you trolling, I'm giving you the truth.
You are meant to be an insignificant insect next to the tank. To become relevant you must outnumber the tank, or call in your own. AV is used at a premium on the outside, infantry are not meant to control that part of the map. That is part of the game design. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone. Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks. So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks.
No, we shouldn't be able to kill a triple rep madrugar alone. The tanker is set up specifically counter lone AV. He loses to all aggressive fits of tanking, as well as multiple AV'rs. He, in essence, becomes worthless at fighting other tanks. He's only successful at all when the enemy team is entirely incompetent.
What you are suggesting is that this particular fit is removed because its a counter-fit to your unwillingness to be responsible and call in a tank to deal with him. To that I say, do your job and quit whining.
If you want to win, you don't get to decide your job. You do what needs doing, or you shut the hell up and deal with the consequences. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Missile tanks will kill it. Rail tanks will kill it. More than a single forge gun or swarm launcher will, in fact, kill it.
I know you feel entitled to be able to kill everything with whatever your current fitting is, by yourself, with no help. You are however, not.
Considering how AVers give up a primary to do so, while also having to spend similar amounts of SP as other roles (including the Tanker role); yes we are indeed entitled. No, you're not. You're a peasant attempting to fight a knight in full armor with a pitchfork. Stick to the fields. You have no right whatsoever to intrude on a tank fight as a pathetic infantryman and expect equal treatment. "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank. Knight would most likely be mounted which would give advantage to the said peasant with the pitchfork (though in medieval combat that would most likely be a pike or a spear). Knight would also be vulnerable to longbows and crossbows and somewhat hindered due to the weight of the armour (20-25kg iirc) while in Dust HAV's shrug most of the AV away like it was nothing.
No, they shrug off a SOLO AV like they are nothing. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3979
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 13:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Actually I'm primarily in a heavy suit. I just happen to know my role, unlike most of the scrubs who play Dust.
I'm kinda amused at your lack of rebuttal to what I said about using a forge gun. If you use a heavy then I'm going to assume you use a forge gun. Then you and know for a fact you can't kill a repping tank with just your forge gun, like you should be able to, alone. Someone has a true proto rep tank, a forge gun is pointless as throwing paper airplanes at it. It should not be that way, forge guns are an anti-armor weapon, that use to be primarily for taking down tanks. So they have infact boned the role of the forge gun with allowing supper rep tanks. No, we shouldn't be able to kill a triple rep madrugar alone. The tanker is set up specifically counter lone AV. He loses to all aggressive fits of tanking, as well as multiple AV'rs. He, in essence, becomes worthless at fighting other tanks. He's only successful at all when the enemy team is entirely incompetent. What you are suggesting is that this particular fit is removed because its a counter-fit to your unwillingness to be responsible and call in a tank to deal with him. To that I say, do your job and quit whining. If you want to win, you don't get to decide your job. You do what needs doing, or you shut the hell up and deal with the consequences. People that use rep tanks use blasters. No other Blaster fit can stand up to it. I have actually been standing beside another person swarming and AV grenading them too, so not just relying on me by myself attacking them. When you do get them about gone, they hit that little booster and zoom off at a 100 miles an hour like a pansy. One question I would like you to answer though, why is it every single kid from Dirt nap has the attitude of a 16 year old drama queen on her period?
We don't.
I'm simply giving you the real answer and your sensitive 12 year old girl feelings aren't accustomed to receiving the truth.
And you shouldn't be using blasters to kill tanks, for any reason, ever. The fact you even think that's an issue shows that people who can't kill tanks, such as yourself, don't have the first clue as to how to start.
A player having no idea what the hell is going on is not a balance concern. It's a personal problem. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3986
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 15:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:I also want to add that we're not happy with the current balance between infantry AV and tanks, so that's one of the things we have on our list to look at for DUST 514. Please don't swing the nerf bat carelessly. I feel that my missile Gunnlogi is in a good place right now against infantry AV.
You mean missing every shot? |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3989
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote: "AV" is an emergency role that happens when a lack of tankers are present, or when your tanks have been suppressed into the red line. It is not meant to be as good as another tank.
Do you have a quote from a developer saying that? If not, then that statement is about as credible as me stating that tankers are emergency roles that aren't supposed to be as good as another AVer. Oh wait, a DEV just stated that this current V/AV is imbalanced; effectively turning what you said into the ramblings of a drunkard.
It's an assumption based on the fact that any other design is ridiculous and renders vehicles pointless. If it is not superior, it is equal or inferior. If it is equal and has superior cost and summoning issues over that of a dropsuit, it is worthless.
If a single AV can take out tanks, then in PC I wouldn't see any need to field tankers ever. They would provide no tactical benefit. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3989
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 18:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote: ^logic is OP.
Indeed it is. Why do you think they're adjusting V/AV balance?
Because logic has to be counter-balanced by stupidity? |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3989
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 19:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Because logic has to be counter-balanced by stupidity?
Nah, because not a single person on these forums, or in-game has been able to provide a logical reason as to why the current V/AV situation is imbalanced. You included.
It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be.
Where exactly have I been unclear in this?
Are you becoming confused, perchance? |
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3997
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 20:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote: It's not imbalanced. Tanks > infantry. That's how it should be.
Where exactly have I been unclear in this?
Are you becoming confused, perchance?
You can state what you desire, and be clear as glass. However, that won't change the fact that your statement/assertion is false. Repeating it over and over again will not change said fact either. Also, CCP has already stated otherwise; so why do you still attempt to sell your argument as if it was designed to be that way?
If CCP currently believes tanks are too good, then CCP is wrong. In the current iteration of this game, tanks control half the map and the infantry control the other half. It is a good balance and if it was not designed that way, it was a happy accident that resulted in a fairly good basis for competitive play.
PC will see basically no tank usage whatsoever if they are nerfed further and everyone in the planetary conquest community will be happy to embarrass CCP's balance team by showing them the hard numbers on how pathetic they will be if infantry can stand toe-to-toe with them. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3997
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't even know why I bother, Patrick.
Trying to teach competitive balance to casuals is basically impossible. No matter what you say or do, they will always believe they have a valid seat at the discussion table and that their uneducated word is worth more in volume than those with experience.
You know, I hear in Mormonism that their belief for God and Satan's falling out had to do with a difference in the plan for Earth. Something along the lines of God wanting to grant free will to man, and Satan wanting to control their actions so that they all head down the correct path.
If any of that was true, I might just convert to Satanism soon. Some of these clowns are too damn stupid to have any manner of free will. |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
3999
|
Posted - 2014.05.09 21:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Tanks should become a serious threat, we have that.
Tanks need their counter, we don't have that.
AV is a futile attempt at dispatching a vehicle, and the only way to guarantee their death(because isk destruction is the name of the game, always has) is for them to hit a wall or for you to literally deal 5400 alpha damage, which requires the tanker to be completely inept.
AV should be a threat to tanks, much like how a tank is a threat to infantry.
A single AVer should be able to solo a solo tank- it should take on average(assuming both builds are MAXED) 9 volleys from a swarm. A prototype maxed AVer should be able to solo a mlt tanker in 1 clip, and a "mid-spec" character in average of 6,
This leaves the tanker at a disadvantage, while still makin them strong. Please, somebody tell me how 9 volleys is a bad number for equal skill/SP in vehicles is a bad idea? Currently it's 12.
Thats a complete and utter joke. I don't give a **** about the low end of balance, the high end is the only part that matters. We don't play competitively with crappy characters and crappy gear. They shouldn't even fit into the balance equation.
Even vehicles in Battlefield can take more punishment than the time it takes to empty a swarm launcher. Those things are basically steel coffins and you want to make these things even weaker? |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
4005
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 09:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Tanks should become a serious threat, we have that.
Tanks need their counter, we don't have that.
AV is a futile attempt at dispatching a vehicle, and the only way to guarantee their death(because isk destruction is the name of the game, always has) is for them to hit a wall or for you to literally deal 5400 alpha damage, which requires the tanker to be completely inept.
AV should be a threat to tanks, much like how a tank is a threat to infantry.
A single AVer should be able to solo a solo tank- it should take on average(assuming both builds are MAXED) 9 volleys from a swarm. A prototype maxed AVer should be able to solo a mlt tanker in 1 clip, and a "mid-spec" character in average of 6,
This leaves the tanker at a disadvantage, while still makin them strong. Please, somebody tell me how 9 volleys is a bad number for equal skill/SP in vehicles is a bad idea? Currently it's 12. Thats a complete and utter joke. I don't give a **** about the low end of balance, the high end is the only part that matters. We don't play competitively with crappy characters and crappy gear. They shouldn't even fit into the balance equation. Even vehicles in Battlefield can take more punishment than the time it takes to empty a swarm launcher. Those things are basically steel coffins and you want to make these things even weaker? So you would prefer if any person who wishes to bring in a Sica to academy be entitled to NEVER dying? That's how it is now. We need balance to exist on all tiers. Needing either Pro AV or a completely inept tanker AND 3-4 mlt swarms SIMPLY to remove that un-piloted sica sitting idle, is ********. Give me 1 reason we SHOULDN'T balance mlt-mlt AV/V balance.
If someone can't kill a Sica they need to quit the game and never come back.
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