Mr Machine Guns, in the case of Top Men, the only party I can speak for, we've been told by every major power who's ever run PFC that our case is acceptable. We operate in two time zones, US and EU time. The teams that practice and play on those districts are entirely different groups of people. And to this day, no PFC enforcement corp has mandated a one-per-alliance limit.

Whether or not this new group does or not largely depends on how the other members of PFC feel about it.

Personally, I'd be happy to see the PFC concept expand beyond Oddelulf, if needed, to provide enough space for any corps who wish to have a spot to get one. With PFC moving to a business model, this actually may now be a practical concept.

Common- Sense, I would not want to call myself the leader of the Council. I'm going to try and serve the Council's interests, by providing an organization framework, based almost entirely on their input. And once everything's put together, that will include the ability to replace me with someone else.

A member of Nyain San has almost no ability to comprehend what challenges do and do not face a smaller participant in PC. A month with a single district equals roughly 14 PC matches. It is ludicrous to believe that no corp should need more than 14 matches to be able to compete with Ancient Exiles or Nyain San. Especially when many of the PFC corps consist of players who do not all appear for every match, meaning any given player probably sees far less than 14 fights in that month. He should, I hope, be able to understand that he doesn't have the perspective necessary to make such a claim.

But the top corps never had a thing like PFC they just took there losses in PC and learned from them they didn't have an thing like PFC back in the day, so all I'm saying is i think this council is a bad idea i feel like its just a way for corps to stay on PFC longer than they should be allowed to stay, like i said 1 to 2 months max on it then you need to go out in MH and try and get a district outside of PFC, you can be allowed back to PFC but you go to the bottom of the list, Alliances only get one district but if the time zone are greatly different two is acceptable but alliances on PFC can't pass district off between thats just not fair to other corps , one more thing i should add is no eve support unless agreed upon

Mr Machine Guns, in the case of Top Men, the only party I can speak for, we've been told by every major power who's ever run PFC that our case is acceptable. We operate in two time zones, US and EU time. The teams that practice and play on those districts are entirely different groups of people. And to this day, no PFC enforcement corp has mandated a one-per-alliance limit.

Whether or not this new group does or not largely depends on how the other members of PFC feel about it.

Personally, I'd be happy to see the PFC concept expand beyond Oddelulf, if needed, to provide enough space for any corps who wish to have a spot to get one. With PFC moving to a business model, this actually may now be a practical concept.

Common- Sense, I would not want to call myself the leader of the Council. I'm going to try and serve the Council's interests, by providing an organization framework, based almost entirely on their input. And once everything's put together, that will include the ability to replace me with someone else.

A member of Nyain San has almost no ability to comprehend what challenges do and do not face a smaller participant in PC. A month with a single district equals roughly 14 PC matches. It is ludicrous to believe that no corp should need more than 14 matches to be able to compete with Ancient Exiles or Nyain San. Especially when many of the PFC corps consist of players who do not all appear for every match, meaning any given player probably sees far less than 14 fights in that month. He should, I hope, be able to understand that he doesn't have the perspective necessary to make such a claim.

But the top corps never had a thing like PFC they just took there losses in PC and learned from them they didn't have an thing like PFC back in the day, so all I'm saying is i think this council is a bad idea i feel like its just a way for corps to stay on PFC longer than they should be allowed to stay, like i said 1 to 2 months max on it then you need to go out in MH and try and get a district outside of PFC, you can be allowed back to PFC but you go to the bottom of the list, Alliances only get one district but if the time zone are greatly different two is acceptable but alliances on PFC can't pass district off between thats just not fair to other corps , one more thing i should add is no eve support unless agreed upon

And the top corps, in many cases, are compilations of all of the top players in the game. We have people ranging from players that one on one can easily match any other player out there, to newbies just starting out. That have to apparently be able to compete with players who have been playing this game as a team for over a year already, and were probably playing as a team in other games before it, in many cases. Also, while a lot of players in the top corps cap their SP every week, and can be found playing every single day, I know in the case of my alliance, many of our members have families and are only available for small periods of time or a few days a week. Your posts make it clear you really know nothing of what the corps participating in PFC face, and how we differ from the landholders of the majority of Molden Heath.

As stated above, you get, really at most, 14 matches on a PFC district a month. So let me ask you this, Mr. Machine Guns:

Do you believe, that 16 newbies can beat a Nyain San team with 14 matches of practice?

Sorry to inform you but you lost my vote due to your support of the corruption that is PFC.

Theres a PFC rule that you have to attack Nyain San after you leave? Why do you have to attack us there are other corps to attack

Also, note that while PFC in the past was a bit of a New Eden anomaly, being a "charity" of sorts, this new model is more akin to a renter system in EVE. In New Eden, generally, territory is held by one of two ways: Being strong enough to defend it yourself, or renting it from someone who is. By contract with N-F, PFC should become a beneficial arrangement for all parties involved.

Why is my question being ignored? I've asked three times now and no answer yet.

Who is in charge of this wallet?

Just say the name. It is ok, he won't bite you.

Okay. I guess that's kinda sad, but I don't really decide how to play DUST based on how many votes it will get me. I do what I feel is best for my alliance and the community at large. PFC gives a lot more players a chance to play than the rest of PC does, and that's why I support it.

Also, note that while PFC in the past was a bit of a New Eden anomaly, being a "charity" of sorts, this new model is more akin to a renter system in EVE. In New Eden, generally, territory is held by one of two ways: Being strong enough to defend it yourself, or renting it from someone who is. By contract with N-F, PFC should become a beneficial arrangement for all parties involved.

Why is my question being ignored? I've asked three times now and no answer yet.

Who is in charge of this wallet?

Just say the name. It is ok, he won't bite you.

Just out of curiosity how is the contract you have with NF beneficial for the other landowners in PC?

You do see the problem that might occur if a corp felt left out or was offended by some arrangement that has no benefit to them?

You seem to be putting a large amount of this success in the hands of one very capable corp, while insulting a corp like Nyan San?

Soraya, maybe your web site is a good idea, but I am more fan of a meeting room in dust.

Well, your alliance is no longer being expected to maintain it for free, for one.



Corps who would earnestly like to participate in what PFC is should probably get in touch with us. In my personal "I have no actual vote" opinion, everyone should be able to participate in PFC. PFC being a low-cost environment to get great fights without starting a war or drama, and practice up skills as a team. Personally, I have no inherent issue with corps outside PFC having districts on PFC, but the issue has always been the limitation that PFC is 24 districts, and a desire to prioritize those that "need" it more. If the new PFC model is financially viable, I see no reason PFC couldn't expand beyond the boundaries of Oddelulf itself so more parties could participate, and restrictions on who can and can't get a district could be more relaxed.



I don't feel I insulted Nyain San. On the contrary, my point that to participate outside of PFC, you really need to be capable of defending from a threat like Nyain San, I am actually placing their corp as the gold standard of being an extremely significant threat. It is the amount of threat they pose, in fact, that disconnects them so heavily from what it's like to be one of the many corps that has few good alternatives besides being on PFC. I don't think a month on PFC will give new corps and players enough practice to take on Nyain San. How is that an insult to Nyain San?

[quote=Soraya Xel]As my alliance may not be running it for free. I also notice that this new arrangement is not paying us either.

So all of the landowners in PC who have fought for their districts are going to be expected to leave you alone yet you only pay one corp for protection I believe this is where this arrangement starts to get sticky.

My first thought, is that as far as I'm aware, N-F does indeed hire ringers. Perhaps those who don't participate in PFC should consider being a ringer to help defend it. And in that, get paid.

Technically, there's nothing preventing other landowners from attacking PFC, I suppose. Except that N-F will be defending it. That being the reason N-F is getting paid.

But the top corps never had a thing like PFC they just took there losses in PC and learned from them they didn't have an thing like PFC back in the day, so all I'm saying is i think this council is a bad idea i feel like its just a way for corps to stay on PFC longer than they should be allowed to stay, like i said 1 to 2 months max on it then you need to go out in MH and try and get a district outside of PFC, you can be allowed back to PFC but you go to the bottom of the list, Alliances only get one district but if the time zone are greatly different two is acceptable but alliances on PFC can't pass district off between thats just not fair to other corps , one more thing i should add is no eve support unless agreed upon

First off, the council is more the capable of setting their own rules and it's about time that they were to set the rules for themselves again. Notice the again part, because PFC was originally founded by the Imperfects and SyNergy as the CRONOS war came to an end. Honestly, we saw no point in wiping CRONOS completely from the map and we all understood that fresh blood in our organizations and PC corps as a whole needed a way to work their way into the system and to become PC ready. Training and friendly PC matches on PFC provided that.

PFC originally consisted of corporations from all the major powers in the day and the threat of mutually assured destruction kept PFC in check. The rules were simple (no flipping and no using PFC as a staging ground) and were agreed to by the major powers which set the stage for what PFC has become today and serves as the foundation of the PFC council. This foundation of PFC members setting an agreeing to the rules is something I'm happy to see return.

I would also like to thank Soraya for his continued work in providing the needed tools to ensure that the council will operate smoothly. I'm sure the larger powers in Molden Heath and smaller entities that feel as though they have something to prove will continue to threaten PFC and the community spirit of Dust that it represents. Negative-Feedback will continue to stand strong with interim PFC council and the contract that we have with PFC.

Im just saying the problem with this council idea with the corps on PFC is that it will always be changing, a new council may set new rules that are different from old ones and just cause confusion

Any such changes should be gradual, as it is extremely unlikely a large percentage of PFC will be replaced at the exact same time. Your own government's equivalents may be different, but we reelect like... most of our government every two to four years. All our laws, however, don't change every two to four years.

Real life government stuff has nothing to do with this is a video game so what you are saying makes no sense...

BTW I'm from America once why are you bring real life government crap into a video game??

Too many rules are gonna make things complicating... I've listed almost all the issues that are there. Not very difficult and doesn't require so much of arguments. It is a very simple matter. All we need is people to agree on terms and go on about shooting things and playing the game///

The important point: Nobody gives a crud what a Nyain San member thinks should be done on PFC.

It doesn't affect you, and it's none of your business.

Im just saying the problem with this council idea with the corps on PFC is that it will always be changing, a new council may set new rules that are different from old ones and just cause confusion