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Ripcord19981
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
Legacy Rising
405
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
finally,something not locked
I can only please one person per day. Today is not ur day, tomorrow doesn't look too bright either.
Turkey sammich>taco
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Meee One
The dyst0pian Corporation
Zero-Day
285
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
AToS SaGa III wrote:
It's not bullying or thugging, the system doesn't really work if a district in PFC can decide to ignore it. Which, you're deciding to do. So what does the system to govern PFC and keep it safe suppose to do if a district isn't playing by the rules everyone else in PFC agreed to?
It's unfortunate - but that's how dem apples rolls.
However, if you talk it out with the PFC council - you don't need to 'join' it to be a part of PFC. You just need to agree to the new rules of PFC - which is obvious, as each new corp whose taken PFC has changed the rules at some point.
But this means you're without a voice.
Let me try and understand your logic....
This large and potentially powerful council...will use fear through attacks to force its will upon those who don't wish to participate.
Big strong council using force on smaller groups....
Hmm...i thought that was the definition of bully/thugish tactics....
AND they'll ignore pleas to be left alone?
Wow! Class A Mob you got there.
Sexy jutsu
Time to jaaam!
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AToS SaGa III
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:48:00 -
[33] - Quote
Meee One wrote:AToS SaGa III wrote:
It's not bullying or thugging, the system doesn't really work if a district in PFC can decide to ignore it. Which, you're deciding to do. So what does the system to govern PFC and keep it safe suppose to do if a district isn't playing by the rules everyone else in PFC agreed to?
It's unfortunate - but that's how dem apples rolls.
However, if you talk it out with the PFC council - you don't need to 'join' it to be a part of PFC. You just need to agree to the new rules of PFC - which is obvious, as each new corp whose taken PFC has changed the rules at some point.
But this means you're without a voice.
Let me try and understand your logic.... This large and potentially powerful council...will use fear through attacks to force its will upon those who don't wish to participate. Big strong council using force on smaller groups.... Hmm...i thought that was the definition of bully/thugish tactics.... AND they'll ignore pleas to be left alone? Wow! Class A Mob you got there.
And you can say any form of government is slavery - do as the law says because you were born there or spend your life in prison - or leave. Spinning what's said is a wonderful that way - perspective dictates everything. If you want to see the PFC changes as being mobbed out - then by all means, do. The rest of the logical community will see the benefits of a working organization for PFCs benefit and continue to run and maintain things, and making sure there are no corps abusing PFC.
I'm sorry you'd rather be negative about a positive move rather then see what you can do to help work with it or change it for the better. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1303
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Actually, the idea, is that it's a council of concerned and participating players who are working towards a mutual goal, creating a PFC that can be both active and fun, as well as isolated and protected from the general PC madness. The people in the PFC Council will establish the PFC rules, rather than EoN or RA or someone else defining what is and isn't the PFC rules.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
6570
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Meee One wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Who the **** cares New Eden is not a democracy. The most organised, populous, and rich players dictate to those weaker how things will be....unless you want to fight them about it.
I wouldn't care if they wouldn't lie. A hostile takeover is fine if declared as such. But if they try to blow off the significance of threatening nonjoiners then it's a problem. All i want is honesty,brutal,cold honesty. I don't wany honeyed words that try to make mob tactics seem like a good thing. And all i'm reading is honeyed words.
Pfff lying in the core of gameplay in New Eden.
They can call it whatever they want if they win.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2539
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Im looking forward to being part of the council.
I see pfc as the only place you could consider 'high sec' in dust and the only place people can really get the practice they need.
Damn fine job kain and negative feedback and thank you all very much.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1308
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Another two points of note:
- The corps listed in the original post are already on board with this. And a few more have since mailed in. This project was done with community collaboration.
- I personally do not handle any ISK, and also will not receive any. People know I'm a long-time supporter of PFC, and I am solely supporting this initiative in that I feel it's the best thing for PFC's continued existence and quality of play. Our alliance participates heavily on PFC, and if I didn't feel that this was worthwhile, I wouldn't be willing to get involved.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1687
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Posted - 2014.02.04 10:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Meee One wrote:AToS SaGa III wrote:
It's not bullying or thugging, the system doesn't really work if a district in PFC can decide to ignore it. Which, you're deciding to do. So what does the system to govern PFC and keep it safe suppose to do if a district isn't playing by the rules everyone else in PFC agreed to?
It's unfortunate - but that's how dem apples rolls.
However, if you talk it out with the PFC council - you don't need to 'join' it to be a part of PFC. You just need to agree to the new rules of PFC - which is obvious, as each new corp whose taken PFC has changed the rules at some point.
But this means you're without a voice.
Let me try and understand your logic.... This large and potentially powerful council...will use fear through attacks to force its will upon those who don't wish to participate. Big strong council using force on smaller groups.... Hmm...i thought that was the definition of bully/thugish tactics.... AND they'll ignore pleas to be left alone? Wow! Class A Mob you got there.
PFC is optional and at the moment largely ungoverned, various corps have came out and said they will police it and basically became the dictators of PFC they changed what ever rules they liked and decided the fate of corps on PFC internally or conversely done little. This move means the corps on PFC are incharge they decide the rules and have an enforcer so to speak to make sure the rules are kept up. Personally I think having PFC regulated by a council of corps who partake in PFC to be far preferable than what ever corp decides it wants to be incharge this week taking over and doing as they like with PFC corps having no say whatsoever.
Corps not following the rules should be removed I am sure you can agree on that, but the problem is with the constant flux of who is incharge of PFC the rules become hard to keep track of. Would you not prefer a chance to sit down with the rest of the participants of PFC to hammer out a set of rules and have a say in the governing of PFC.
About plea's to be left alone the whole purpose of PFC is for training surely being in contact with all the other members of PFC to help set up fights would be a great benefit.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2407
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Posted - 2014.02.04 11:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
PFC should be about training and entry into pc, so you guys shouldn't be there forever. Some of you have been there long enough. If a new corp wants entry into PFC, what will you guys do?
Also....edguy from Quebec owes me $1M ISK, so I expect payment from his corp or his personal wallet. Otherwise, you will bleed ISK and continue to bleed ISK to NF for full teams. Principle is everything.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1688
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
PFC should be about training and entry into pc, so you guys shouldn't be there forever. Some of you have been there long enough. If a new corp wants entry into PFC, what will you guys do?
Also....edguy from Quebec United owes me $1M ISK, so I expect payment from his corp or his personal wallet. Otherwise, you will bleed ISK and continue to bleed ISK to NF for full teams. Principle is everything.
The whole point of the council is it is a council there are more than just one person in charge so if some corp had a district for an excessively long time and refused to vacate what is to stop the rest of the council voting them out and giving the spot to a new corp. I know you aren't a huge fan of PFC but a little positivity wont kill you, why not give the council a chance this is early days yet.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 13:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Medic 1879 wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
PFC should be about training and entry into pc, so you guys shouldn't be there forever. Some of you have been there long enough. If a new corp wants entry into PFC, what will you guys do?
Also....edguy from Quebec United owes me $1M ISK, so I expect payment from his corp or his personal wallet. Otherwise, you will bleed ISK and continue to bleed ISK to NF for full teams. Principle is everything. The whole point of the council is it is a council there are more than just one person in charge so if some corp had a district for an excessively long time and refused to vacate what is to stop the rest of the council voting them out and giving the spot to a new corp. I know you aren't a huge fan of PFC but a little positivity wont kill you, why not give the council a chance this is early days yet.
Just making a point because and a reminder that there will be noone bringing in new corps so which one of you will be giving your districts up when it's time? It should go by seniority...so corps like Gravity, Death Firm, etc shouldn't have to give up their districts before Hellstorm, Forsaken, etc
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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CYRAX SERVIUS
Death Firm.
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
713
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Posted - 2014.02.04 13:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
Speaking for Death Firm,
We have had our district for less than one week and have been engaging in combat and loving it. No worries Ydubbs about extended stays, as soon as Corps are capable and able to capture and maintain combat operations outside PFC, the obvious move would be to give up district to deserving newcomers.
As far as the protection services offered are concerned, we all run our Corps like a business right? Basically that's what the Corporation aspect is, a business. The services offered are nothing more than a good business practice by someone who has the balls to put forces on the line to protect our wishes, I thank them.
Let's say three districts on PFC were simultaneously attacked by a major outside force, the cost for a top notch ringer team is approx 60-90mil isk, depending on who is willing to take your contract. And who's to say they will as they may not trust you for payment? By agreeing with the terms offered, you have GUARANTEED protection from the best the game has in combat forces, once again, good business, saving you money in the long run.
The ISK amount asked per week is peanuts, just play eve for awhile, you'll understand.
No one is saying they are going to take your district if you don't buy the insurance policy, you just won't have the level of protection potentially needed to keep your district from being flipped while your next door neighbor does, and keeps their district.
10mil a week to begin a PC campaign is cheap people, cheap...
CEO
Whiskey squad leader
Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1035
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Posted - 2014.02.04 13:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
AToS SaGa III wrote:Shadow of War88 wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Shadow of War88 wrote:do you believe the actions youve taken here will improve your chances of getting elected? *shrug* No idea. My actions are intent on ensuring corps who wish to participate in PFC have an actual say in how it's run, as opposed to whatever the corp of the week is lording over it like a pet. I made this very clear to Kane Spero when he asked for feedback on the state of PFC, and he seems intent to deliver on that. A lot of parties were consulted on this project. I am here solely as a huge fan of what PFC is and can offer, and a part of setting this up is enabling PFC corps to replace me if it is there wish as expediently as some semblance of order can be had. so you wish for PFC to be independently run by its own elected body? & who will enforce PFC laws given by the PFC council? Negative-Feedback. 
LOL You are back i See LOL |
Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1690
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Posted - 2014.02.04 13:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Medic 1879 wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
PFC should be about training and entry into pc, so you guys shouldn't be there forever. Some of you have been there long enough. If a new corp wants entry into PFC, what will you guys do?
Also....edguy from Quebec United owes me $1M ISK, so I expect payment from his corp or his personal wallet. Otherwise, you will bleed ISK and continue to bleed ISK to NF for full teams. Principle is everything. The whole point of the council is it is a council there are more than just one person in charge so if some corp had a district for an excessively long time and refused to vacate what is to stop the rest of the council voting them out and giving the spot to a new corp. I know you aren't a huge fan of PFC but a little positivity wont kill you, why not give the council a chance this is early days yet. Just making a point because and a reminder that there will be noone bringing in new corps so which one of you will be giving your districts up when it's time? It should go by seniority...so corps like Gravity, Death Firm, etc shouldn't have to give up their districts before Hellstorm, Forsaken, etc
Well kind of stating the obvious there really, the longest district holders should be the first to go. Personally when the council is up and running if it is decided that we have been there too long I would say its time to move on from PFC. The only thing I would be pushing for is trying to replace corps with corps from the same timezone (where possible) otherwise we could end up with all the districts around the same timer. So say if the council got set up and decided we had our district long enough I would only suggest they replace us with an EU TZ corp if they could.
However if we went the other way and they said you have had that district too long and I and my CEO did not agree we would be outnumbered on the vote and removed anyway. That is the point of the council if one corp decides not to bother with the rules the others take action.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1323
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Posted - 2014.02.04 13:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
Part of the general concept includes maintaining an actual waitlist. The weekly cost means corps that do not need it will quickly decide to move out. Those who are actively using it, I personally don't think should be forced off due to having been there a while. (I'd honestly be comfortable if every corp in the game had a PFC district to play by PFC rules from, though that would require more than just Oddelulf being in PFC.)
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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CUBS UNbanned Alt
231
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dubbs your idea has been a hot topic in backrooms of bars and even some alleys.
It is most definitely an issue to be addressed, sooner rather than later, but 1 thing at a time. Squatters and those not using PFC 'as intended' need to be settled before we move on to your topic, which I think makes perfect sense and will need to be addressed before long.
but having the residents holding the 'keys' is something that was widely discussed at every juncture of PFC, and is finally reaching the surface and being implemented.
There have been basically 3 sets of 'rules' to this date, put forth by whomever was 'policing'
Those days are gone; Yes New Eden is not keen on democracy, but in regard to Planet Fight Club, it has become a reality, at least on 1 planet in this brutal universe!
Don't drink the koolaid... Rampage made it from scratch and didn't wash his hands
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Fire2MyBlunt
The Phoenix Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
the council idea is good. love it.    |
King 'BabySlayer' Kobra
Fetal Abortions
1
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Looking forward to cracking the skulls of PFC kids that don't follow the rules. |
Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
The CORVOS
48
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
PFC should be about training and entry into pc, so you guys shouldn't be there forever. Some of you have been there long enough. If a new corp wants entry into PFC, what will you guys do?
Also....edguy from Quebec United owes me $1M ISK, so I expect payment from his corp or his personal wallet. Otherwise, you will bleed ISK and continue to bleed ISK to NF for full teams. Principle is everything.
I will rout the payment on edguy's behalf. |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1323
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Posted - 2014.02.04 15:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
The current goal, which I will put here, and on the Reserved post in the thread as well, is to get one to two representatives from each corp registered at http://forums.dust-gents.com and verified using the instructions in red text on that page. Then we have a somewhat private discussion area for PFC participants to hash out the rules in a closed board. Corps should do this today, if possible. I'd like to get discussions started immediately, but with only a couple corps in there so far, it'd be pretty poorly representative.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
2196
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in. Part of the general concept includes maintaining an actual waitlist. The weekly cost means corps that do not need it will quickly decide to move out. Those who are actively using it, I personally don't think should be forced off due to having been there a while. (I'd honestly be comfortable if every corp in the game had a PFC district to play by PFC rules from, though that would require more than just Oddelulf being in PFC.)
so people lose moeny unless they fight? great!
Listen
I'll change the song every week
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Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1329
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:so people lose moeny unless they fight? great!
Basically how PC as a whole should've been designed, yes.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Fire2MyBlunt
The Phoenix Federation
23
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
there is still a lot to discuss about rules and the overly priced insurance . thing though is my corporation can probably careless about the isk a week because we just don't give a flying bird about it. but personally I talk about it because these corporations that plan to stay on pfc for months will feel the effect of it. But I see both sides. 07 |
ragewardog
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
106
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
pfc is great but to hard to control I think its just about time pfc died |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1329
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
ragewardog wrote:pfc is great but to hard to control I think its just about time pfc died
Of course you do. You don't gain any benefit from it. Why wouldn't you want it to die? Which is why ERA will ensure people like you can't touch it.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Common- Sense
1
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
Absolutely brilliant strategy by Negative Feedback.
My hats are off to you gentleman. You have put in place a system that generates political goodwill towards your alliance, economic gain in the form of willingly paid weekly GÇ£protectionGÇ¥ money and likely also additional funds for initial placement, future allies and resources, while also creating little to no real risk for yourselves. If corps should decide they donGÇÖt need protection IGÇÖm sure itGÇÖs easy enough to find a third party to remind them of its benefits.
Even better you have given those paying the GÇ£protectionGÇ¥ money the illusion that they have real control and a say in matters by using this council set-up while also recruiting useful idiots to do a majority of the legwork and propaganda such as Soraya Xel who does it believing that showing leadership in this is a way to get himself elected to CPM1 instead of the reality which is playing that fool and selling all of you in to slavery.
Well played NF, Well played. - O7 |
bigolenuts
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
204
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Will the monetary budget be made for public viewing? Since it is a collaboration, there should be no numbers to hide, right? Who is in charge of the wallet? I am guessing Kane is. Answers? |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2548
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 18:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
This is where sht starts to freak me out seriously.
We are talking about a game here and a currency that is worth nothing unless you play the game, nothing. And still worth next to nothing.
Can we chill with this freaky sht, thanks.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2548
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 19:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Common- Sense wrote:Absolutely brilliant strategy by Negative Feedback. My hats are off to you gentleman. You have put in place a system that generates political goodwill towards your alliance, economic gain in the form of willingly paid weekly GÇ£protectionGÇ¥ money and likely also additional funds for initial placement, future allies and resources, while also creating little to no real risk for yourselves. If corps should decide they donGÇÖt need protection IGÇÖm sure itGÇÖs easy enough to find a third party to remind them of its benefits. Even better you have given those paying the GÇ£protectionGÇ¥ money the illusion that they have real control and a say in matters by using this council set-up while also recruiting useful idiots to do a majority of the legwork and propaganda such as Soraya Xel who does it believing that showing leadership in this is a way to get himself elected to CPM1 instead of the reality which is playing that fool and selling all of you in to slavery. Well played NF, Well played. - O7
Not wrong but freaky.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Tempo
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2548
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 19:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
bigolenuts wrote:Will the monetary budget be made for public viewing? Since it is a collaboration, there should be no numbers to hide, right? Who is in charge of the wallet? I am guessing Kane is. Answers?
Talking about isk like this, freaky.
Level 2 forum warrior.
Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam
I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
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