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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1687
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Posted - 2014.02.04 10:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Meee One wrote:AToS SaGa III wrote:
It's not bullying or thugging, the system doesn't really work if a district in PFC can decide to ignore it. Which, you're deciding to do. So what does the system to govern PFC and keep it safe suppose to do if a district isn't playing by the rules everyone else in PFC agreed to?
It's unfortunate - but that's how dem apples rolls.
However, if you talk it out with the PFC council - you don't need to 'join' it to be a part of PFC. You just need to agree to the new rules of PFC - which is obvious, as each new corp whose taken PFC has changed the rules at some point.
But this means you're without a voice.
Let me try and understand your logic.... This large and potentially powerful council...will use fear through attacks to force its will upon those who don't wish to participate. Big strong council using force on smaller groups.... Hmm...i thought that was the definition of bully/thugish tactics.... AND they'll ignore pleas to be left alone? Wow! Class A Mob you got there.
PFC is optional and at the moment largely ungoverned, various corps have came out and said they will police it and basically became the dictators of PFC they changed what ever rules they liked and decided the fate of corps on PFC internally or conversely done little. This move means the corps on PFC are incharge they decide the rules and have an enforcer so to speak to make sure the rules are kept up. Personally I think having PFC regulated by a council of corps who partake in PFC to be far preferable than what ever corp decides it wants to be incharge this week taking over and doing as they like with PFC corps having no say whatsoever.
Corps not following the rules should be removed I am sure you can agree on that, but the problem is with the constant flux of who is incharge of PFC the rules become hard to keep track of. Would you not prefer a chance to sit down with the rest of the participants of PFC to hammer out a set of rules and have a say in the governing of PFC.
About plea's to be left alone the whole purpose of PFC is for training surely being in contact with all the other members of PFC to help set up fights would be a great benefit.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1688
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
PFC should be about training and entry into pc, so you guys shouldn't be there forever. Some of you have been there long enough. If a new corp wants entry into PFC, what will you guys do?
Also....edguy from Quebec United owes me $1M ISK, so I expect payment from his corp or his personal wallet. Otherwise, you will bleed ISK and continue to bleed ISK to NF for full teams. Principle is everything.
The whole point of the council is it is a council there are more than just one person in charge so if some corp had a district for an excessively long time and refused to vacate what is to stop the rest of the council voting them out and giving the spot to a new corp. I know you aren't a huge fan of PFC but a little positivity wont kill you, why not give the council a chance this is early days yet.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1690
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Posted - 2014.02.04 13:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Medic 1879 wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:So, you guys will be policing yourselfs on PFC with the aid of NF. That's cool......but if you guys are all about the community and new corps, I recommend that you guys don't stay on PFC forever. Because there won't be an "outsider" corp looking over your shoulders, I don't forsee any of the "council members" giving up their district to allow new corps to get in.
PFC should be about training and entry into pc, so you guys shouldn't be there forever. Some of you have been there long enough. If a new corp wants entry into PFC, what will you guys do?
Also....edguy from Quebec United owes me $1M ISK, so I expect payment from his corp or his personal wallet. Otherwise, you will bleed ISK and continue to bleed ISK to NF for full teams. Principle is everything. The whole point of the council is it is a council there are more than just one person in charge so if some corp had a district for an excessively long time and refused to vacate what is to stop the rest of the council voting them out and giving the spot to a new corp. I know you aren't a huge fan of PFC but a little positivity wont kill you, why not give the council a chance this is early days yet. Just making a point because and a reminder that there will be noone bringing in new corps so which one of you will be giving your districts up when it's time? It should go by seniority...so corps like Gravity, Death Firm, etc shouldn't have to give up their districts before Hellstorm, Forsaken, etc
Well kind of stating the obvious there really, the longest district holders should be the first to go. Personally when the council is up and running if it is decided that we have been there too long I would say its time to move on from PFC. The only thing I would be pushing for is trying to replace corps with corps from the same timezone (where possible) otherwise we could end up with all the districts around the same timer. So say if the council got set up and decided we had our district long enough I would only suggest they replace us with an EU TZ corp if they could.
However if we went the other way and they said you have had that district too long and I and my CEO did not agree we would be outnumbered on the vote and removed anyway. That is the point of the council if one corp decides not to bother with the rules the others take action.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1707
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Posted - 2014.02.05 13:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well its kind of obvious that once the council has agreed rules they will be published, until then speculation about what the rules are and claiming ISK farming is allowed is merely speculation and I highly doubt farming is going to be allowed it defeats the purpose of PFC completely.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1708
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Posted - 2014.02.05 13:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Medic 1879 wrote:Well its kind of obvious that once the council has agreed rules they will be published, until then speculation about what the rules are and claiming ISK farming is allowed is merely speculation and I highly doubt farming is going to be allowed it defeats the purpose of PFC completely. Yeah well I don't see any mention of farming being allowed in this thread. If by that you mean the fact swamp will use the passive isk gain to launch attacks then you are wrong, it'll be used to launch attacks so we don't use what pc savings we have and can continue to grind pubs to add to it. You see the logic in that? Why waste saved pc isk to train, getting into pc is the whole point.
I was infact referring to someone else claiming that by the look of it so far ISK farming was allowed and pointing out that it is all speculation until the council meets.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1709
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Mr Machine Guns wrote:Having a Council make rules makes no sense to me because the council consist of corps who won't always have a district on PFC so every time more corps join new rules would have to be established because district ownership on PFC should be changing ever month or two, the newer corps may not like the old rules so they could change and just make everything confusing so I think a outside corp should set the rules
Edit: Zero-Day alliance should not have 3 district on PFC And as the Council changes, they may choose to vote to change out rules as warranted. You realize that having legislators make laws doesn't make any less sense because legislators eventually get replaced by other legislators, right? you aren't understanding my point with the council adding and losing corps in a month or two, thats how long i think you should stay on PFC before you have to give up your spot. As the council changes the rules for PFC may be changed as well, I just feel the rules if they constantly change would just get to confusing to follow, thats why i feel like a outside corp should set the rules for PFC because not one corp is on PFC forever.
That is what has happened previously one corp deciding the rule. unfortunately as shown the ones in charge change so the same thing occurs every few months or so the rules change because of the corp in charge changing. With a council however if a set of rules are made then in say a month 3 corps have left and 3 new have joined that does not automatically mean the rules will change the new corps will take over the votes of the old and new rules may appear or they may not. It is not going to be a case of everytime some representatives change the entire rule set changes unless something drastic happens like a change in the mechanics of PC that affect PFC for example.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1710
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Posted - 2014.02.05 18:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mr Machine Guns wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Mr Machine Guns, in the case of Top Men, the only party I can speak for, we've been told by every major power who's ever run PFC that our case is acceptable. We operate in two time zones, US and EU time. The teams that practice and play on those districts are entirely different groups of people. And to this day, no PFC enforcement corp has mandated a one-per-alliance limit.
Whether or not this new group does or not largely depends on how the other members of PFC feel about it.
Personally, I'd be happy to see the PFC concept expand beyond Oddelulf, if needed, to provide enough space for any corps who wish to have a spot to get one. With PFC moving to a business model, this actually may now be a practical concept.
Common- Sense, I would not want to call myself the leader of the Council. I'm going to try and serve the Council's interests, by providing an organization framework, based almost entirely on their input. And once everything's put together, that will include the ability to replace me with someone else.
A member of Nyain San has almost no ability to comprehend what challenges do and do not face a smaller participant in PC. A month with a single district equals roughly 14 PC matches. It is ludicrous to believe that no corp should need more than 14 matches to be able to compete with Ancient Exiles or Nyain San. Especially when many of the PFC corps consist of players who do not all appear for every match, meaning any given player probably sees far less than 14 fights in that month. He should, I hope, be able to understand that he doesn't have the perspective necessary to make such a claim. But the top corps never had a thing like PFC they just took there losses in PC and learned from them they didn't have an thing like PFC back in the day, so all I'm saying is i think this council is a bad idea i feel like its just a way for corps to stay on PFC longer than they should be allowed to stay, like i said 1 to 2 months max on it then you need to go out in MH and try and get a district outside of PFC, you can be allowed back to PFC but you go to the bottom of the list, Alliances only get one district but if the time zone are greatly different two is acceptable but alliances on PFC can't pass district off between thats just not fair to other corps , one more thing i should add is no eve support unless agreed upon
Thats the thing though, nothing is finalized yet once the council is meeting and rules have been agreed maybe the rules will say 1 district per alliance 1 month before you are out that kind of thing we do not know yet. However ideas for potential rules are greatly welcomed I know I am reading through this thread carefully so see if anything crops up that I have not thought of and to see if any one has any great ideas. All we ask is a little patience Soraya has set up a forum for the representatives to talk which is a fantastic idea but at the moment not all corps are sold on the idea and there are the inevitable TZ/language barriers that need to be over come first. I will be pushing for as much transparency as I can and rules that benefit newer corps over more established ones as I think that is what is needed to make PFC great.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1710
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Posted - 2014.02.05 21:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
bigolenuts wrote:Why is my question being ignored? I've asked three times now and no answer yet.
Who is in charge of this wallet?
Just say the name. It is ok, he won't bite you.
I think no one has answered that yet because until the council meets and decides how payment is handled its still unsure, it could be that each corp pays ERA themselves or they all pay into a fund which then goes to them or they could decide and use a third party escrow service. I am sure once it is all finalized you will get more details.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1710
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Posted - 2014.02.06 08:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ghostt Shadoww wrote:You not affraid. Thats awesome wasnt trying to scare you.
And negative cant do anything no one can. Its called lock the district.
So there is no way for you to get it back im going to keep them all locked till the war which obviously i wont be abe to lock it ever again inckuding everyone else.
So sorry your wrong. Negative feedback cant do anything to a district that os locked forever ...have you looked at thevstar map latley...everyone is locked except pfc. You think anyone is going to go online with a war comng....
Listen im not scaring no one. Im taking the districts before AE does and im locking them till war time (new update) and nobone can do anything about so es get real shut up
And yes im gking to take the districts and ask cubs to join me cuz im aking them for war reasons. He smart and a vet he knows how this all works...see you soon
Sorry if I have got the wrong end of the stick but are you claiming in preparation for a war when PC 2.0/ district locking fix arrives you plan on taking all districts on PFC and locking them?
Is this an ALT?
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1710
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Posted - 2014.02.06 09:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ghostt Shadoww wrote:Your a little late bud. On the next update is when you will never ever be able to lock districts again. Not 2.0 but now in march...read my war room post about attacking AE it will make more sense for you
I have read it and well, lol is all I say to that. Also you state that district locking is fixed in March yet do not provide a source the last comment I saw from CCP on the matter is that they are aware of it and are working on it not that it was fixed in March if you have seen other wise please share, the end of district locking cant come soon enough. However you try and stir up hate towards AE in one thread then threaten to take over PFC and lock it in another thread shutting down PFC will make enemies for you not friends all the corps on there certainly won't join your "coalition" and you will also make and enemy of NF as well which will not be good for your war effort.
I can understand trying to get a war going it would provide a bit of excitement but trying to do it by locking the one unlocked area of MH is just stupid it will just make you look bigger villains than those you wish to destroy.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1711
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Posted - 2014.02.06 10:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ghostt Shadoww wrote:Everything is locked everywhere and is going to stay that way. Incase you havent noticed all the big corps have been looking at pfc as another source of income. So before they take it i need to. I dont expect you to understand you are a gamer not ex military.This is sstrategy and smart since a war is coming. And its pfc why would I want a corp in pfc to join the coalition. Look bud like i told you in the other thread if i dont they will. Open your eyes 1.8 is the biggest update in dust. And its going to change a lot of things around especially for the pc world. I think its time for pfc to go away for awhile. You want to train then go que sync a factional. And stop getting rich off of pfc..all us big dogs know its a cash crop. Go somewhere else with that mess. Pfc needs to be open to pc again practice in factioal pfc is over
Ah right so no proof of your claim that district locking fixing is coming in 1.8, assurances that the big corps are going to take over PFC so you will do it first, claiming to be smarter than the average gamer just because you were in the military I know quite allot of people currently in or ex and some are smart some are as dumb as a bag of hammers just because you were in it does not mean you will win every game that requires military thinking. The unit 514 are big dogs? never heard of you to be honest so good luck against AE unless this is an alt in which case man up. On not wanting PFC corps, you are wanting to attack AE with overwhelming numbers to do this you need large numbers, to achieve these large numbers you act arrogant and alienate a large portion of the community good tactics there buddy.
Also consider this if these big corps are planning on taking over PFC as you claim they would have done so already I highly doubt any teams on PFC could have stopped them if they wanted to take it. Basically you want to take PFC so you can farm ISK while you still can and are trying to justify it by saying its for a war effort.
You may also wish to consider this, the element of surprise your "war effort" has already lost this with your claims on taking PFC and broadcasting your intention to attack your enemies weeks in advance give them plenty of time to get prepared for you this is not smart strategy intimidation will work on a weaker foe trying it on an enemy power fuller than you just gives then time to get ready and/or mock you.
Just admit you want to farm ISK while you still can and we will at least salute your honesty not mock you fabled war.
Lead Diplomat for Forsaken Immortals.
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