DUST Search - PFC Council

Bri Bub wrote:

Soraya Xel wrote:

Salviatino Maiano wrote:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1142409#post1142409

So, are these the rules we're following?

The Council, once we get enough people signed up over there, will vote in a set of rules. No longer will TeamPlayers or Ancient Exiles determine our rules of play.

Fair enough but bear in mind that the previous (actually current, until a new set is made publicly available) rules are those that all corps that joined PFC under them, i.e. everyone currently in PFC, we're bound to... PFC leadership changes and it is their prerogative to adjust the rule set to best address the needs of the community but... Importantly, the entire set of rules must be made public and must be posted to these forums, not another site where everyone that can access dust514.com cannot get to... Then current occupants should be allowed sufficient time to fall in line or make other plans...

Additionally... The way this topic is progressing suggests PFC district ISK farming will be allowed not only to cover the NF insurance policy but to actively launch attacks outside of PFC while the respective corporation has no plans to move off PFC in the short term... This will lead to abuse, so I will be interested to see what comes of the first internal enforcement action, i.e. when NF has to move against one of its policyholders...

TL/DR
Post revised PFC rules to dust514.com forums sooner than later.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2539	Posted - 2014.02.04 04:38:00 - [1] - Quote Im looking forward to being part of the council. I see pfc as the only place you could consider 'high sec' in dust and the only place people can really get the practice they need. Damn fine job kain and negative feedback and thank you all very much. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 18:58:00 - [2] - Quote This is where sht starts to freak me out seriously. We are talking about a game here and a currency that is worth nothing unless you play the game, nothing. And still worth next to nothing. Can we chill with this freaky sht, thanks. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:00:00 - [3] - Quote Common- Sense wrote: Absolutely brilliant strategy by Negative Feedback. My hats are off to you gentleman. You have put in place a system that generates political goodwill towards your alliance, economic gain in the form of willingly paid weekly GÇ£protectionGÇ¥ money and likely also additional funds for initial placement, future allies and resources, while also creating little to no real risk for yourselves. If corps should decide they donGÇÖt need protection IGÇÖm sure itGÇÖs easy enough to find a third party to remind them of its benefits. Even better you have given those paying the GÇ£protectionGÇ¥ money the illusion that they have real control and a say in matters by using this council set-up while also recruiting useful idiots to do a majority of the legwork and propaganda such as Soraya Xel who does it believing that showing leadership in this is a way to get himself elected to CPM1 instead of the reality which is playing that fool and selling all of you in to slavery. Well played NF, Well played. - O7 Not wrong but freaky. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:01:00 - [4] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: Will the monetary budget be made for public viewing? Since it is a collaboration, there should be no numbers to hide, right? Who is in charge of the wallet? I am guessing Kane is. Answers? Talking about isk like this, freaky. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:02:00 - [5] - Quote Cringing over. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:11:00 - [6] - Quote Common- Sense wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: This is where sht starts to freak me out seriously. We are talking about a game here and a currency that is worth nothing unless you play the game, nothing. And still worth next to nothing. Can we chill with this freaky sht, thanks. Just for the record this is not an attack or even a complaint even if it seems like one. What they have done is absolutely brilliant and there is nothing wrong with it. If those whom have positions on the planet and council are happy with the arraignment than itGÇÖs a win-win for all sides I was just commenting because I was so impressed by the strategy and maneuvering that brought us to this point. I know but anyone who has actually dealt with real business knows theres a catch, its expected. Its really nothing special and to be expected. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:15:00 - [7] - Quote And yes everyone is happy. What's your main common sense? Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:22:00 - [8] - Quote Common- Sense wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: This is where sht starts to freak me out seriously. We are talking about a game here and a currency that is worth nothing unless you play the game, nothing. And still worth next to nothing. Can we chill with this freaky sht, thanks. Just for the record this is not an attack or even a complaint even if it seems like one. What they have done is absolutely brilliant and there is nothing wrong with it. If those whom have positions on the planet and council are happy with the arraignment than itGÇÖs a win-win for all sides. I was just commenting because I was so impressed by the strategy and maneuvering that brought us to this point. Getting people to pay protection money and be happy about doing it at the same time is not easy! Never mind. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2548	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:31:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Regarding money, we know how much everyone pays in, and we should know whenever an enforcement action has to take place. Therefore, we should know about how much money is going in and out of the operation, and hence, we should know how good of a deal we are or are not getting. These are all topics that the Council should discuss in the appropriate area. Yeah sure sounds good. I had an idea that once a month a top notch team can attack each district to see if people still really need to be on pfc or are just farming isk. This would be at the 'discretion' of said top notch team and would have to be assembled by someone who isn't going to fk about. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2563	Posted - 2014.02.05 08:04:00 - [10] - Quote Swamps plan is to fight pfc battles with the passive isk gained while simultaneously grinding pubs for when we are ready to start shouting "avass ye scurvy swine". This way we won't be spending, it'd kind of be pointless to spend saved future pc isk on training when we could launch attacks for 'free' every 2-3 days. I'd suggest any other corps in or coming to pfc that don't have loads of isk to do the same. It'd also be a good idea for each corp on pfc to arrange attacks and defences to avoid a total clusterfk. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic

TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2563	Posted - 2014.02.05 08:18:00 - [11] - Quote I'd also suggest that a district with full clones is the only time a district can be attacked, this avoids numerous bs, fking about and doesn't screw with peoples generating isk passively to launch their own attacks. Its going literally have to be some carebear crap to ensure everyone is getting the practice they need out of it and nothing hampers a corps efforts toward eventual pc, which is the goal. A lot of everything is going to rely on people being completely honest if its going to work. I think once a month, each district should get an 'organised' attack from a pc level team to determine whether a corp is ready but there needs to be an understanding that times vary, theres many factors and some corps will take longer than others, like for instance here at swamp, we don't just take anyone, if they don't fit in then I suggest corps for them and boot them so recruitment is slow for us, we all run our sht differently. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2563	Posted - 2014.02.05 08:21:00 - [12] - Quote We'll still all get the training we need, theres no point making it brutal like pc because that's coming anyway. We need the focus on training and good quality safe training at that, this way people really will get ready sooner rather than degrading the quality. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2563	Posted - 2014.02.05 08:29:00 - [13] - Quote If this all works out right, pfc will become the norm for newer corps. If they have a place to actually train properly then more people will bother with the game, kain and crew get to keep their cut and we all will be helping to make the game better. I heard some talk about corp battles coming back and that it'd make pfc pointless. Theres no districts or mechanics to corp battles. In fact I go so far as to say corp battles would be for quick hardcore matches and training for before you come to pfc so you'd know what to expect. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2565	Posted - 2014.02.05 08:55:00 - [14] - Quote Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: We'll still all get the training we need, theres no point making it brutal like pc because that's coming anyway. We need the focus on training and good quality safe training at that, this way people really will get ready sooner rather than degrading the quality. "We learn and get better from our tough games" - DJIIN Soul (one of the very best FCs) Don't pamper the matches too much, they should be hard and pushing everyone to the edge of their limits. That is how you get better. It's like working out, running twenty feet does nothing, sprinting thirty miles will only kill you, jogging ten miles will improve you (you get the idea). Pubstomping and constantly getting 5 capped won't help, those tough games where it's a close one does. I'm not saying pamper the matches, I'm saying and quite clearly that we need to make sure that matches aren't messing with any corps actual progress or just straight up messes with them, what good will randomly attacking a corp actually achieve? If they are not ready then what training is getting farmed going to teach them? Nothing. All the brutality has yet to come and with all due respect, we have all paid for this. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2565	Posted - 2014.02.05 08:57:00 - [15] - Quote If that's not clear then you've not read my other posts. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2565	Posted - 2014.02.05 08:59:00 - [16] - Quote Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: We'll still all get the training we need, theres no point making it brutal like pc because that's coming anyway. We need the focus on training and good quality safe training at that, this way people really will get ready sooner rather than degrading the quality. "We learn and get better from our tough games" - DJIIN Soul (one of the very best FCs) Don't pamper the matches too much, they should be hard and pushing everyone to the edge of their limits. That is how you get better. It's like working out, running twenty feet does nothing, sprinting thirty miles will only kill you, jogging ten miles will improve you (you get the idea). Pubstomping and constantly getting 5 capped won't help, those tough games where it's a close one does. And iv never had the pleasure of getting carried in pc, iv always fought with the underdogs so your preaching to the choir mate. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2565	Posted - 2014.02.05 09:06:00 - [17] - Quote What is your part in pfc shiyou so I know who I'm speaking to. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2566	Posted - 2014.02.05 12:41:00 - [18] - Quote Bri Bub wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Salviatino Maiano wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1142409#post1142409 So, are these the rules we're following? The Council, once we get enough people signed up over there, will vote in a set of rules. No longer will TeamPlayers or Ancient Exiles determine our rules of play. Fair enough but bear in mind that the previous (actually current, until a new set is made publicly available) rules are those that all corps that joined PFC under them, i.e. everyone currently in PFC, we're bound to... PFC leadership changes and it is their prerogative to adjust the rule set to best address the needs of the community but... Importantly, the entire set of rules must be made public and must be posted to these forums, not another site where everyone that can access dust514.com cannot get to... Then current occupants should be allowed sufficient time to fall in line or make other plans... Additionally... The way this topic is progressing suggests PFC district ISK farming will be allowed not only to cover the NF insurance policy but to actively launch attacks outside of PFC while the respective corporation has no plans to move off PFC in the short term... This will lead to abuse, so I will be interested to see what comes of the first internal enforcement action, i.e. when NF has to move against one of its policyholders... TL/DR Post revised PFC rules to dust514.com forums sooner than later. Keep your assumptions away from this thread please or at least keep them to yourself. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2566	Posted - 2014.02.05 12:52:00 - [19] - Quote I'm sorry but assumptions start a hype in dust, that then gets taken as fact far too much. Idiocy to be perfectly honest. Keep opinions and assumptions of 'what if' out of this thread please and stay on the subject. It rare I take anything seriously on the forums I know lol. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2566	Posted - 2014.02.05 13:07:00 - [20] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: Well its kind of obvious that once the council has agreed rules they will be published, until then speculation about what the rules are and claiming ISK farming is allowed is merely speculation and I highly doubt farming is going to be allowed it defeats the purpose of PFC completely. Yeah well I don't see any mention of farming being allowed in this thread. If by that you mean the fact swamp will use the passive isk gain to launch attacks then you are wrong, it'll be used to launch attacks so we don't use what pc savings we have and can continue to grind pubs to add to it. You see the logic in that? Why waste saved pc isk to train, getting into pc is the whole point. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic

TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2566	Posted - 2014.02.05 13:22:00 - [21] - Quote Anyway its probably best to wait to discuss the rules in a better place and iv now drunk a few lol. Kronenbourg Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2566	Posted - 2014.02.05 13:36:00 - [22] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Medic 1879 wrote: Well its kind of obvious that once the council has agreed rules they will be published, until then speculation about what the rules are and claiming ISK farming is allowed is merely speculation and I highly doubt farming is going to be allowed it defeats the purpose of PFC completely. Yeah well I don't see any mention of farming being allowed in this thread. If by that you mean the fact swamp will use the passive isk gain to launch attacks then you are wrong, it'll be used to launch attacks so we don't use what pc savings we have and can continue to grind pubs to add to it. You see the logic in that? Why waste saved pc isk to train, getting into pc is the whole point. I was infact referring to someone else claiming that by the look of it so far ISK farming was allowed and pointing out that it is all speculation until the council meets. Haha, yeah the beer is settling in then, I apologise mate. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2566	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:45:00 - [23] - Quote Mr Machine Guns wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Mr Machine Guns wrote: Having a Council make rules makes no sense to me because the council consist of corps who won't always have a district on PFC so every time more corps join new rules would have to be established because district ownership on PFC should be changing ever month or two, the newer corps may not like the old rules so they could change and just make everything confusing so I think a outside corp should set the rules Edit: Zero-Day alliance should not have 3 district on PFC And as the Council changes, they may choose to vote to change out rules as warranted. You realize that having legislators make laws doesn't make any less sense because legislators eventually get replaced by other legislators, right? you aren't understanding my point with the council adding and losing corps in a month or two, thats how long i think you should stay on PFC before you have to give up your spot. As the council changes the rules for PFC may be changed as well, I just feel the rules if they constantly change would just get to confusing to follow, thats why i feel like a outside corp should set the rules for PFC because not one corp is on PFC forever. I'm fine with that provided its all discussed with the pfc corps ceos and directors seen as each corp has not only spent a considerable amount of isk buying a district but that each corp varies in its situation and operates differently. Swamps slow recruitment is an example, we don't just take anybod in. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2567	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:56:00 - [24] - Quote Well actually we do take anybody in but if they don't fit in then they get corp suggestions and booted. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2567	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:59:00 - [25] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: I dont see how rules can change that much if they are designed with intelligence and leave any personnal agenda out. Unless we were total idiots when designing them and the community fails to see something wrong and its reported months afterward, you can rest at peace, they should stay set for a rather long time. Now you have to split permanent rules with common affairs. the council still must take some actions to enforce rules. This will not make the rules invalid per see If extraordinary circumstances happens. There will always be a legacy of people instilling the current rules to newcomers, call them temporary conservatives on the council because they will have seen the benefits of the current rules in current affairs. So a newcommer will always face opposition in changing the rules from the existing land owners. Think like in real life, when does an outsider given the authority to change everything in a group from day one ? Almost never, he is forced into viewing things like the group first then he gets his chance to consteuctively change point of view as trust is gained from that outsider. So fear not, we can do this constructively and have faith in its legacy. Your not wrong but that depends on experience, if someone is a newcomer but has greater experience than the current lot then they will take the newcomers ideas and input into great consideration. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2567	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:29:00 - [26] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: What is your part in pfc shiyou so I know who I'm speaking to. I really hope your plan can work, I think PFC is important to give new corps the "Taste" of PC. But i would remind you that you exist at the larger corps discretion, yes having NF police it is great( be glad they are willing to take on that headache ) So diplomacy is still important for PFC members challenging or insulting larger corps could be detrimental to PFC and I would caution against it when many corps already wish to burn it to the ground. Its painful how you have stated out the obvious but yes I know, thanks. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2581	Posted - 2014.02.06 07:56:00 - [27] - Quote The district we bought was under attack and we couldn't take it, will check now again. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2609	Posted - 2014.02.08 18:11:00 - [28] - Quote I'm not bothering with this thread, it has descended into idiocy. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2610	Posted - 2014.02.08 20:24:00 - [29] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: I'm not bothering with this thread, it has descended into idiocy. You'll be back trolling is the lifeblood of the WR. I iz bak. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2621	Posted - 2014.02.10 00:29:00 - [30] - Quote One issue is ringers. I believe that so long as its alliance members then this is fine and provided its not abused to pull in better players from a corps alliance purely to win a match ie you don't go replacing members from your corp simply because you can get a better ringer from your alliance. When they are used from your alliance because you need to fill gaps then this is fine. When a corps members are replaced with ringers because they are better then this is a problem. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic

TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2621	Posted - 2014.02.10 00:52:00 - [31] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: TechMechMeds, it'd actually be really hard to enforce that without having someone watching their team formup for every match. ;) I know in our alliance's case, it isn't a desire to replace anyone in a corp, but that simply the entire alliance is welcome to participate, and people are selected from the overall group. We try to make sure everyone gets in at some point. A lot of times, we actually intentionally pick "newbies first" explicitly, even though our entire team can always use more practice. That's true but alliance ringers are important, especially for corps still growing and your alliance operates precisely how ours will as well then in relation to this. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2621	Posted - 2014.02.10 00:53:00 - [32] - Quote It'd become apparent very quickly if a corp did that as well. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2621	Posted - 2014.02.10 01:04:00 - [33] - Quote We should build the pfc rules on what is good for its purpose and how those will help corps get the training they need and then weed out the abusers, they will show themselves very quickly. Theres no point trying to base rules on countrring abusers in a pre emptive strike because they will find a way anyway but will be recognised very quickly. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2621	Posted - 2014.02.10 01:05:00 - [34] - Quote I'm off now. o7. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2678	Posted - 2014.02.11 17:16:00 - [35] - Quote I made a thread thanking valor, I guess I should have put it here as its now buried pretty much lol. Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2679	Posted - 2014.02.11 17:25:00 - [36] - Quote Rigel Knietzch wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: I made a thread thanking valor, I guess I should have put it here as its now buried pretty much lol. We are not very active in the forums but it has been noted, send me a mail for when you guys want to skirmish with our new recruits. Sounds good Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic
TechMechMeds Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives 2742	Posted - 2014.02.20 18:20:00 - [37] - Quote I am swamps rep, kain iv not bbeen able to get on to pay rent. Got a ps4 and bf4 is 86% installed, it takes ages, fking aaaaages. o7 Level 2 forum warrior. Swamp iz on dat welevant flex fam I sold my family to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic