I'm not an EVE-ite but I have been made aware that Caldari are supposed shield masters.

Shields are rubbish when being shot at so regen is all fine and dandy - so long as you arent being shot
- Its why I would prefer the shortest delay so long as our regen is in line with other suits (2nd fastest is fine). We duck out the way and as soon as we are out of sight the regen starts. We dont have massive shields anyway and have enough CPU to use an energizer.

The key is enough Speed to get away so shield can kick in whilst repper constantly does its job - then back into the fray, preferably from the flank.

This isn't just about the weapons but about making the suit better itself.... if the suit sucks then people from other races will just use minmatar weapons to the same efficacy. even if they lose their bonus beause they can tank it better (ehp wise they can endure the weapon fire longer thn we can)...

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1776633#post1776633

The original subject can be read below. Feel free to comment on that. I am changing the direction of this discusion because many comments revealed to me what I suspected all along. That minmatat dropsuits really are weak in just about every area compared to other suits.

The obvious weakness is the low EHP. But we would hope that this lack of durability would be compensated with another more potent factor. But they are not. Common arguments for why the low EHP is justified:
(note: this compares dropsuits of the same type accross the races...ie medium frame with medium frame)

higher speed:
This is mitigated by 5 things.

• Aim assist
• active scanners ("everyone knows where you are" --sir campslot)
• anyone can reach the same speed with 1 kin cat and still have more EHP
• hit scans are instantaneous
• all strafe speeds are approximately the same (minmatar have only 6% more strafe speed than Caldari and galente. but nearly 25% less ehp)

As we can see a marginally higher speed (in the case of galente and caldari minmatar are only faster by 1m/s. Granted their stamina is higher but this doens't justfy such an unforgivably low EHP.

Stronger weapons and higher damage

this is migitaged by 2 FACTs which everyone here is well aware of:
[list]

Anyone can use any light weapon of the other races to the same ability the other races can. This can be done without reprocusion. (except for amarr. The Scr rifle is the only light weapon that only Amarr can use to its fullest ability)

This means anyone can use a minmatar weapon as good as a minmatar. Everyone sees Caldari assaults running around with SMGs and CRs. So, a stronger suit with more EHP using a stronger weapon = better result.

Anyone can use damage mods and as commenters below noted, after the 2 complex damage mod TTK is pretty much the same.

So the glass cannon theory of minmatar combat is shattered by these facts.

Solution with balance in view:
Minmatar should get faster shield Recharge and innate Armor reps because, look. Galente and minmatar are the armor rep guys and should have faster shield recovery in one way or another. This is how it is in EVE.

Amarr should ALWAYS have the highest EHP. That is their trademark in EVE. Relentless and unstoppable.
Caldari are supposed to have extremely high shields.


So, EHP wise the flow should be:
Ammar> Caldari> Galente > minmatar

but Armor and shield rep/recharge the flow should be:
Minmatar> Galente> Caldari> Amarr



Minmatar EHP should be 6-15% lower than galente. But their shield recharge should be faster than galente and caldari by 15-25%. They should also have a passive armor regen that suppliments this or 1-3hp/s. By doing this the EHP difference will be better balanced.

The lower the number choosen in one field the lower in should be in the others. for example:
if EHP difference between Minmatar EHP and galente/caldari is 6%, then minmatar shield recharge should be only 15% faster and they should have only 1hp/s armor rep.

if EHP difference between minmatar EHP and galente/caldari is 15%, then minmatar shield recharge should be 25% faster and they should have 3hp/sec armor rep.

EDIT (original article entitled: why are the minmatar losing their innate armor rep rate in 1.8?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1730164#post1730164
The base armor repping for minmatar really added to their play style especially since they have lower ehp than the other races. The fact that they are only marginally faster than galente and caldari doesn't help. So taking this away really just makes them bad tbh.

Caldari more shields
gallente more armor
amar more stamina
minmatar less ehp and 1 more meter per second run speed? really?


just remember minmatar tech is at its best inside the ranges of amar and caldari, and only slightly outside the ranges gallente weaponry.

so basically minmatar aren't worth running unless you get full proto, in wich case you might as well just use gallente or caldari. 3 out of the 5 minmatar weapons are pretty much uncompetetive, so im begining to think CCP has it out for minmatar.

+100

why go minmatar...

Wow. I don't think I have ever seen a post so full of inaccuracies.

Lets start from the beginning.

Base Strafe has been the same on all suits since ~1.4

We have 1 more slot than you, and the ever amazing 5/2 layout (CPU heavy on a suit with less CPU and PG than the Amarr Assault)

"You can fit everything at everytime" Once again, the MK.0 Assault has LESS CPU and PG than the Amarr AK.0. Invalid.

OP weapons:

SMG: Yeah that thing is amazing, but have you ever used the ScP? It's deadly in it's own way.

CR: Once again, great gun. But the ScR is JUST as deadly. Charge shot headshots will insta-kill more than half the suits in the game. It also boasts the highest DPS in the game with a fast enough trigger finger and damage mods.

HMG: It's a freaking HMG. Get over it. It's SUPPOSED to ruin your day.

Mass Driver: Almost useless right now. Almost

Locus: You can use that crap too.

Remote: You're complaining about remotes? Holy hell you're butthurt.

Repair Tool: And now you're complaining about rep tools? DEAR GOD.


About learning how to play:
Stacking armor plates on a speed suit means you're stupid. Because Speed lets you dodge bullets. AA much? Speed tanking is almost useless right now except for overall mobility.

"Play with Dampener, Play with Biotic, Play with Hack modules". WE ONLY HAVE TWO LOW SLOTS.

"Stop Complaining" What was this entire post about? Hypocritical no?

"Racial Bonus is 2x as great" Debateable. Sidearm bonus is great, and so is hack speed, but you gotta remember, the Amarr Assault bonus turns the ScR into a MONSTER. With a reduction to heat build up on top of quickened heat dissipation, the Amarr Assault can spam shots with it all day.

"Amarr Bonus always sucks" See above.

"Open your [CENSORED] eyes"

Open YOUR EYES. I could eat a bowl of spaghetti O's and defecate a better argument than this.

look. Galente and minmatar are the armor rep guys and should have faster sheild recovery in one way or another. This is how it is in EVE.

Amarr should ALWAYS have the highest EHP. That is their trademark in EVE. Relentless and unstoppable.
Caldari are supposed to have extremely high shields.


So, EHP wise the flow should be:
Ammar> Caldari> Galente > minmatar

but Armor and shield rep/recharge the flow should be:
Minmatar> Galente> Caldari> Amarr

got it?

^This^

(Which confuses me as to how an ARMOUR repair tool is Minmatar technology.)

Back when people ran either a shield or armor tank yah it was great shield suit. With extenders and energizers.

More shield and armor parity will make the suit more balanced...

22 HP for basic Extender 33 for ADV? even 66 HP for the complex at the fitting cost is a lot.. for tanking an extra bullet or two? Doesn't seem worth it for most, pair that with like no useful equipment for highslots other then damage mods or shields.. Its left the suit fairly impotent.

It seams to me that the most common complaint I've heard throughout this thread is that it is unfair that all the races are equally effective with the other races weapons and equipment.

So wouldn't the obvious solution be to have a small penalty when adding another races equipment to your suit?

Or perhaps a slight bonus when adding equipment that matches the race of your suit? (so no one complains about the nerf)

They could even implement a smaller nerf for allied suits, so for example Gallente wouldn't be penalized for using Minmatar gear nearly as much as the Caldari and Ammar would. (which would coincide with lore seeing as its quite plausible that the Gal would have helped train the Min to use their equipment in order to aid in the war [for example])

I know this isn't quite viable for everything yet considering that even when 1.8 comes out and we have all our racial suits we will still be lacking certain racial items (like heavy weapons). So it could wait for another year for them to finish the game but it could also be something they begin to implement now for item groups that are complete like the Rifles, SMGs, Pistols etc. And even the equipment as well.

I think this would solve a large portion of the "OP problem" in that most items that have been considered OP in the past were mostly only considered so because such a huge portion of the players were running around kicking @ss with them. The flaylock for example wouldn't have been nerfed if only Minmatar assault suits could use them that effectively.

Also it would help specialize different races roles in the game depending on the equipment bonuses of the race.

I mean I know its not going to happen because its a huge step away from the direction they are taking for 1.8 but I just think its the most logical way to give racial and suit bonuses in the game. It doesn't make sense to give a bonus to "Light Hybrid Blaster Weapons" for example since the Opposing race could have a weapon that falls into that category as well.

well minmatar are the greasy mechanics of the game. Their assault suits are literally stripted down engineer suits. minmatar are simply good at shield restoration and armor repair. Which is good for their allies the galente who are great at using vehicles and depleting shields..

Uhh I stopped reading a few pages ago but I'd like to share my min assault fit with you guys. I've been running min assault since it came out and I've learned a few things.

Rule 1. You must have a complex profile dampener on. Without it your whole speed /gank tactic is trash. At least in the current active scanner world.

Rule 2. Damage modifiers are a bit over rated. They are expensive (CPU wise) and a luxury a min assault can't afford without being seriously eHP gimped (unless you put CPU enhancer in other low)

Rule 3. Don't put CPU enhancer in other low! Lol you need it for some armor enhancing module; repper, plate, or my current favorite the reactive plates (they are a bit UP but give you that extra little bit of rep and armor for that remaining low slot).

Rule 4. Shield tank as much as possible. Kinda obvious at this point.

OK I'll stop with the rules..

Remotes and SMG are your best friends. You want all your weapons to deal extra to armor so that you can slay quickly and GTFO. If you see a heavy shield tank don't engage head on (or bring a flux) . Oh and melee things are cheap to fit and are quite useful if you can sneak up on people.

The min assault is underpowered but I seem to be getting along ok. Any buff would be welcome and restore some balance in the assault suits though.

YOU IDIOT 1m/s CAN TOTALY CHANGE THE GAME, YOU CAN HOLD A KN TO KILL MEDIUM WITH MEDIUM

Kincats also cost massive PG loads, something I've not in spades.

Specifically on min heavies, because their resistances suck, they need something to make up for their low health what I was thinking is a possible bonus to HMG rof, cause honestly that min heavy is just not going to be able to compete with other heavies.

Ok. Based on Your new OP

1) Gallante are about to become the Armour Rep guys (apprantlich)
2) Assuming Medium Suits get an overhaul we should get 4H 4L (based on assumptions made from other suit stats)
3) Minmatar Skill bonus should to reps, while Amarr bonus should be to brick tanking
4) Minmatar Assault should have highest overall fitting potential to match slot layout.

If shields get their fitting requirements reduced as well and become better overall, that would be a huge buff for minmitar as well

minmatar suit should have the folowing stats in this order.


minmatar scout = shield recharge delay 1.5 sec, shield recharge 45hp/s. inate armor rep 3hps

minmatar medium frame (assault and logi) = shield recharge delay 2 seconds, sheild recharge 35hp/s. innate armor rep. 2hp/s

minmatar heavy frame = shield recharge delay 2.5 seconds, shield recharge 45 hp/s. innate armor rep 2hp/s