| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10116
   |
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Welcome to Hit Detection 514 we're aiming is so improved you could make up for the disadvantages of a weapon's dispersion.
Anyways back to our two examples above which are just representational and not accurate at all.
In game weapon thoery you have Short, Medium, and Long range weapons and everything in between, When looking at exhibit A you will see the TTK for short and long range weapons is relatively high. The reason why you scale the damage the way the two graphs are going to impose is to have a level of expected encounters. Now overall map design plays a massive role in this because if you have a wide map so to say people are going to use snipers and not even bother with shotguns as there is no cover to allow short ranged people to reach their targets before they get gunned down or alternatively throw everyone in a cargo box they're going to resort to short range weapons.
As you add obstacles to the map you create engagement opportunities. Places where a short, medium, or long range weapons are ideal but maybe not as ideal for others. As you add engagement opportunities you also start adding is disengagement opportunities by consequence. When combined this becomes the 'window of opportunity' where the player ability to engage its target is limited by the environment presented.
Overall Dust 514 does a fair job on this (except in the cases where one engagement range cannot reach the other such as top of the comm towers) so map design itself is not a universal issue in Dust 514 in comparison to a game such as call of duty's extremely constrained maps for justification of its sniper weapons having no scoping which might as well be a short range gun in that game.
So with the maps removed from the equation the next thing to look at is the guns themselves and back to our ttk vs range graph? So why does a short range and long range weapons have an extreme number for its ttk time? For long range weapons it has plenty to with the window of opportunity. The ability to shoot someone in a preferred location and usage is often fairly limited and not as frequent in comparison to someone storming a base full of guys in hallways. The sniper is only going to be shooting anyone stupid enough to run out. Making a sniper TTK to low results in a large amount of frustration however, shooting a guy with a difficult to aim weapon 10 times and he still does not drop is rather annoying and unrewarding.
As for why short range weapons get a high TTK is for the other reason, number of engagements. Getting into knifes edge is not as common as one thinks. Especially for a game that emphasis sensors, radar, and being able to pick out your targets at such long ranges. So for getting into effective range of the short ranged weapon is in itself should be a reward. Window of engagement for short range weapons also typically tends to be short as well as its pretty visceral and medium ranged weapons can perform rather well with less accuracy mechanics involved. Short range weapons however are typically not much more powerful than the medium ranged weapons on average BUT what normally happens with short range weapons is they have a tighter 'damage compression' or how much hurt they can put out in their allotted window of engagement. For example a shotgun is fairly deadly at close range but once empty takes a long time to reload and the AR is already gunning you down with its third magazine and you only have two reloads total. It also because of the lack of engagements is why so many side arm and sniper weapons are allotted far less ammo because they're not expected to upkeep combat.
Overall Dust 514s short range game is fairly decent time to kill and is well in the curve needed and fit the model fairly well (except nova knifers) Long range game is on the borderline due to the high values offered by some targets in combination with weapon skills creates a spectrum of the rifles are in the zone and rifles that are under the zone. These are however not our problem weapons we have today.
Our problem weapon is the medium range weapon. In a normalized game your medium range weapons would have some of the longest time to kills comparatively to the other weapons available to that game. However because of most map designs they are the most expected weapons to be engaging each other with thus high ammo counts to deal with the situations presented. In Dust 514's case the current ttk graph looks similar to exhibit's B where the medium range weapon is highest in regards of TTK. That people drop far faster to a plasma rifle than they do to laser rifles or a sniper rifle.
Why is this a particularly bad thing? Because it disenfranchises long range and short range (especially short range) play. Where medium range weapons are suitable for all engagement opportunities and most scenarios. Thus we start seeing a selection of guns that just 'role stomps' over the other guns making the other guns inferior to use based on their principles alone and creates an air of anti-diversity and in the long run destroys tall order playing and interactivity with the game.
Because of this we do not see some of our interesting fits anymore, such as a stormtrooper, a super tanked heavy with shotgun used to clear interiors. Fights are also mostly becoming much less fun for both shooter and the guy getting shot. The shooter loses out because of the lack of challenge in his targets, point click dead, no need to track. The victims lose out because they cannot be rewarded for good positioning or reflexes, good cover? not enough.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10116
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
reserved
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Vegetation Monster
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
77
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:reserved
why do you post chapter books, ain't nobody got time to read this sh*t.
B
Double O
T
Y
|
VAHZZ
The dyst0pian Corporation
154
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I stopped after "welcome to Hit Detection 514"...TOO....MUCH....WOOOOORDS!
The merc with a mouth - beware of random bouts of insanity!
i should make an Everything Nixon Corp
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
871
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
|
Vegetation Monster
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
77
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff
they broke sniper rifle hit detection...
B
Double O
T
Y
|
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1688
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
HOLY **** IWS is saying intelligent things, keep this up and you'll be off the CPM...
CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting...
Level 1 Forum Warrior
|
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2344
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Going to stop you right here
Everything you want to go on about with medium range trumping others is not the fault of average kill times, the problem lies in map design where even our enclosed installations more often than not are built with lots mid range hold spots for a fire fight but without enough sneaky alternate routes for a close range fighter to use to get in and most also have more than enough cover to make long range weapons like sniper rifles merely an annoyance since they have very limited firing lanes in that situation
Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
|
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
140
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Considering that a 'DREN' shotgun with no skills in it can down a 1200 HP heavy in 3 shots I find your entire argument invalid. I also find that people think that just because only one person shows up on the kill screen that that is the only person shooting at them. TTK is not too low in this game. I have had a few good fire fights in PC matches and in skirms when I was out alone trying to solo hack objectives. I find this whole campaign is nothing more than proto players wanting more advantage over lesser skilled suits and I will rally against it at all fronts. No damage reduction for weapons, no hit point buffs to suits, no exploitation of the power blocs trying seduce the masses into their misguided agenda. |
8213
The Neutral Zone
655
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:reserved why do you post chapter books, ain't nobody got time to read this sh*t.
Yeah reading is so lame! Excuse me while I put on my Varsity Letterman Jacket, hop in my trans Am and go cruising for chicks at the nearest High School party! Pay no mind that I'm almost 30.
For us grown-ups, reading isn't a task or chore...
As far the actual post. I think a major problem lies in what Short, Medium, and long range is on these maps and in game theory.
If a sniper is considered long, but its effective from 50m to infinity.
Lasers are 50m to about 150m max. so everything after 150m belongs to nothing save an SR
Than an AR is medium at 25-50m? But if you went by the scale, the AR would have to be 150m to be considered max Medium.
A SCR Pistol <25m?
I made a simple chart:
http://t.co/wUL3niLv8b
The one thing you notice is the gaps between short to middle(red to orange) range and long to super long (green to pink). There are 2 safe zone gaps |
|
|
VAHZZ
The dyst0pian Corporation
156
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
8213 wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:reserved why do you post chapter books, ain't nobody got time to read this sh*t. Yeah reading is so lame! Excuse me while I put on my Varsity Letterman Jacket, hop in my trans Am and go cruising for chicks at the nearest High School party! Pay no mind that I'm almost 30. For us grown-ups, reading isn't a task or chore... As far the actual post. I think a major problem lies in what Short, Medium, and long range is on these maps and in game theory. If a sniper is considered long, but its effective from 50m to infinity. Lasers are 50m to about 150m max. so everything after 150m belongs to nothing save an SR Than an AR is medium at 25-50m? But if you went by the scale, the AR would have to be 150m to be considered max Medium. A SCR Pistol <25m? I made a simple chart: http://t.co/wUL3niLv8bThe one thing you notice is the gaps between short to middle(red to orange) range and long to super long (green to pink). There are 2 safe zone gaps
I'm 21, i'm grown up, i reguarly read Edgar Allen Poe...but this is still too long for mua
The merc with a mouth - beware of random bouts of insanity!
i should make an Everything Nixon Corp
|
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
140
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
So the best solution in combination with some adjustments to weapon performance would be a direct damage nerf to overall output of the problem weapons. Remember when 1.0 rolled out we had issued out a 10% damage BUFF to ALL weapons to account for horrendous hit detection and now that hit detection is near where it should be the change needs to be rolled back on select weapons that are seemingly out of the 'curve'.
So following weapons that should be affected:
High Auto SMGs
High Auto Plasma Rifles
SCR (standard shots) and ASCR
Quit changing history. That is not the reason that a 10% damage buff was added to weapons. It was added because of the removal of it from skills. If you have to lie to get your way then your way is flawed. |
Vegetation Monster
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
78
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
8213 wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:reserved why do you post chapter books, ain't nobody got time to read this sh*t. Yeah reading is so lame! Excuse me while I put on my Varsity Letterman Jacket, hop in my trans Am and go cruising for chicks at the nearest High School party! Pay no mind that I'm almost 30. For us grown-ups, reading isn't a task or chore... As far the actual post. I think a major problem lies in what Short, Medium, and long range is on these maps and in game theory. If a sniper is considered long, but its effective from 50m to infinity. Lasers are 50m to about 150m max. so everything after 150m belongs to nothing save an SR Than an AR is medium at 25-50m? But if you went by the scale, the AR would have to be 150m to be considered max Medium. A SCR Pistol <25m? I made a simple chart: http://t.co/wUL3niLv8bThe one thing you notice is the gaps between short to middle(red to orange) range and long to super long (green to pink). There are 2 safe zone gaps
im 16... LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
the more you know... your like 40 aren't you?
B
Double O
T
Y
|
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1688
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Considering that a 'DREN' shotgun with no skills in it can down a 1200 HP heavy in 3 shots I find your entire argument invalid. I also find that people think that just because only one person shows up on the kill screen that that is the only person shooting at them. TTK is not too low in this game. I have had a few good fire fights in PC matches and in skirms when I was out alone trying to solo hack objectives. I find this whole campaign is nothing more than proto players wanting more advantage over lesser skilled suits and I will rally against it at all fronts. No damage reduction for weapons, no hit point buffs to suits, no exploitation of the power blocs trying seduce the masses into their misguided agenda.
Why shouldn't proto be better than militia?
CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting...
Level 1 Forum Warrior
|
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1083
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Buff the LRs range and decrees the overheat damage by tiers that's all we want.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
|
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
702
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection...
sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book)
bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons
and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed
one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping eachother and thats it |
Vegetation Monster
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
79
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book) bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping eachother and thats it
no atmosphere or gravity on planets and even in real a 400m kill with a sniper is ideal with very very little bullet drop and you have to think about it that the snipers we are using are thousands of years into the future.
B
Double O
T
Y
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10123
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book) bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping eachother and thats it
at least its not like call of duty's hop off a cliff 360 x4 and head shot a guy with every 360 then land the jump on a mattress.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
1976
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10123
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 23:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up?
And people wonder why I went omni.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
|
|
DTOracle
The Surrogates Of War
145
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. |
8213
The Neutral Zone
655
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:
I'm 21, i'm grown up, i reguarly read Edgar Allen Poe...but this is still too long for mua
Its not even 1000 words... perhaps you still need to grow up more or hope you never have a job that requires you know massive amounts of information on short notice... ?
Kudos for reading Poe though. Been a favorite of mine for 25 years :) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10127
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM.
I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game)
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
368
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book) bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping eachother and thats it at least its not like call of duty's hop off a cliff 360 x4 and head shot a guy with every 360 then land the jump on a mattress.
Hey now. Trick-shot of Duty is fo realz bro. Don't hate. Themz take mad skillz yo!  |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10127
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book) bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping eachother and thats it at least its not like call of duty's hop off a cliff 360 x4 and head shot a guy with every 360 then land the jump on a mattress. Hey now. Trick-shot of Duty is fo realz bro. Don't hate. Themz take mad skillz yo!
True I don't mind the trick shots, I hate the quick scopes because it abuses a mechanic that modded controllers have made a point in using. basically locking onto to people with it.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
1976
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
But seriously I don't see the point and taking out my gek anymore I just use the recruiter AR BPO I got works just as well at getting kills
throw on 2 complex armor reps and an advanced level shield buffer since I know if I'm shot I'm dead, but if I survive I need to get back to full hp before I can show my face |
Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
696
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
So the best solution in combination with some adjustments to weapon performance would be a direct damage nerf to overall output of the problem weapons. Remember when 1.0 rolled out we had issued out a 10% damage BUFF to ALL weapons to account for horrendous hit detection and now that hit detection is near where it should be the change needs to be rolled back on select weapons that are seemingly out of the 'curve'.
So following weapons that should be affected:
High Auto SMGs
High Auto Plasma Rifles
SCR (standard shots) and ASCR
Quit changing history. That is not the reason that a 10% damage buff was added to weapons. It was added because of the removal of it from skills. If you have to lie to get your way then your way is flawed.
You're both right, the 10% damage buff was added because people felt that TTK was to high back then - as a result of the weaponry skill being changed, as well as the non functioning AA and the poor hit detection.
Now that hit detection and AA are actually working, TTK has gone through the floor - removing the 10% buff seems like the low hanging fruit as far as increasing it again goes.
EDIT: Increasing the speed of some dropsuits (i.e. light frames) could also help, but that comes with other game design considerations - such as the time it takes to reach objectives. |
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
142
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up?
So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. |
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
1976
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for.
But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless. |
Vegetation Monster
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
83
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
8213 wrote:VAHZZ wrote:
I'm 21, i'm grown up, i reguarly read Edgar Allen Poe...but this is still too long for mua
Its not even 1000 words... perhaps you still need to grow up more or hope you never have a job that requires you know massive amounts of information on short notice... ? Kudos for reading Poe though. Been a favorite of mine for 25 years :)
you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want.
B
Double O
T
Y
|
|
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10129
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:8213 wrote:VAHZZ wrote:
I'm 21, i'm grown up, i reguarly read Edgar Allen Poe...but this is still too long for mua
Its not even 1000 words... perhaps you still need to grow up more or hope you never have a job that requires you know massive amounts of information on short notice... ? Kudos for reading Poe though. Been a favorite of mine for 25 years :) you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want.
Victim of society's rules and expectations. Enslaved by the system and sells himself on the idea that he is free when he is truly shackled.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
142
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
So the best solution in combination with some adjustments to weapon performance would be a direct damage nerf to overall output of the problem weapons. Remember when 1.0 rolled out we had issued out a 10% damage BUFF to ALL weapons to account for horrendous hit detection and now that hit detection is near where it should be the change needs to be rolled back on select weapons that are seemingly out of the 'curve'.
So following weapons that should be affected:
High Auto SMGs
High Auto Plasma Rifles
SCR (standard shots) and ASCR
Quit changing history. That is not the reason that a 10% damage buff was added to weapons. It was added because of the removal of it from skills. If you have to lie to get your way then your way is flawed. You're both right, the 10% damage buff was added because people felt that TTK was to high back then - as a result of the weaponry skill being changed, as well as the non functioning AA and the poor hit detection. Now that hit detection and AA are actually working, TTK has gone through the floor - removing the 10% buff seems like the low hanging fruit as far as increasing it again goes.
Except it wasn't a buff. It was the way that it already was. All they did was change the 10% from a skill to a straight modification of the weapons. All weapons were already at a 10% damage increase. And TTK wasn't too high back then, infact it was much much lower due to the OPness of the LR and ARs.
So how many other people have 30/50 hindsight? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10129
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:
So how many other people have 30/50 hindsight?
Most people have 0/0 back vision.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
142
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless.
Tell that to the people QQing about duv and imp wrecking face on the battlefield. I'm sure they will have a different take on it than you. |
DTOracle
The Surrogates Of War
145
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game)
Then Push It To the Limit dammit. I'm not asking for a better slot layout(which we won't get), more HP(also, not likely to get), or more CPU/PG like everyone else are demanding. I'll even settle for more base stamina & no delay on recharging. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10129
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless. Tell that to the people QQing about duv and imp wrecking face on the battlefield. I'm sure they will have a different take on it than you.
Actually the number of people complaining on how useless the duvolle has been verse the gek has been increasing substantially.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
142
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Actually the number of people complaining on how useless the duvolle has been verse the gek has been increasing substantially.
Probably because the system is like EVE, where you can skill into a weapon and then fit a lower tier so that you can use better tank mods. Who would of thunk it. CCP made EVE DUST just like EVE Online in some aspects. |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
441
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:
you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want.
^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days.
IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" 
I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7040
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
TL;DR version please.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
|
Himiko Kuronaga
The Generals
EoN.
2268
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
You just demanded that people read and actually comprehend something, IWS.
That is beyond the pay grade of the 13 year olds who are in present company.
Thank you for the effort, though. |
|
|
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
222
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:
you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want.
^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days. IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak.
Please don't castrate my HMG further TYVM 
How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
|
Himiko Kuronaga
The Generals
EoN.
2270
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:TL;DR version please.
No, you don't get one.
If you have the audacity to post, learn how to read.
God damned cretins. |
ReGnYuM
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1301
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? And people wonder why I went omni.
No No No you're not Omni
Aldin Kan is Omni <3
If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514.
KDR > EVERYTHING
|
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
441
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless. Tell that to the people QQing about duv and imp wrecking face on the battlefield. I'm sure they will have a different take on it than you.
People QQ'd about Imps and Tac AR, and Imps and Caldari logi, and Imps and HMG in chromosome, and tank spam and damn near everything in between. If anyone thinks this or any other multiplayer game will be balanced is a fool. There will always be some people who will upset the balance either by skill, cheating, or finding some "exploit" and using it. Figuring out how to beat the system and then using that knowledge to wring tears from other gamers is all such people live for. You can't balance a game around these people all you can do is refuse to play them.
You have all too much rage over this topic Rowdy, I'm assuming the shorter TTK suits you and your playstyle well and your KDR has risen in the past week. Good for you, mine has too, I've been kicking butt with my assault alt. character, however, the longer TTK made the game more unique in its crowded FPS niche and more fun to play in general (my own personal KDR be damned)
For the record a proto suit is not an instant I win button either, it gives you a couple more slots and the PG/CPU to fit those modules and a proto gun, that's it. The best players will continue to stomp whether TTK is high, low, or in between, not because of proto suits but because they mob with other good players, know the maps, have skills, and use the core locus grenade tactic. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7040
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:TL;DR version please. No, you don't get one. If you have the audacity to post, learn how to read. God damned cretins.
Yes, such audacity to want something concise.
Do you think of yourself as some astute intellectual because you can tolerate needlessly long forum posts so long that it needs to be split in 2?
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
|
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
441
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:
you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want.
^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days. IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak. Please don't castrate my HMG further TYVM
It will stay relatively the same as it is now. But I do firmly believe the weapon needs sharp shooter skill to make it a more viable weapon. If they add that and my SMG still messes up heavies 1 v 1 I'd be more than happy for you fat boys to get the damage buff back too |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe PC
RISE of LEGION
1911
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:8213 wrote:VAHZZ wrote:
I'm 21, i'm grown up, i reguarly read Edgar Allen Poe...but this is still too long for mua
Its not even 1000 words... perhaps you still need to grow up more or hope you never have a job that requires you know massive amounts of information on short notice... ? Kudos for reading Poe though. Been a favorite of mine for 25 years :) you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want.
I hope you aren't procreating
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
633
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:TL;DR version please.
TL;DR
Low TTK is hurting Dust because fitting diversity becomes irrelevant and lets medium range rifles do better than everything else in their own range.
Rebreaking HD is a terrible solution.
Giving dispersion to certain weapons is bad because it punishes players and doesn't discourage people from using them in CQC range.
Increasing eHP can get messy.
So we should remove 10% buff from 1.0 from SMGs, ARs, SCRs, and ASCRs to fix TTK. |
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
222
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 00:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:
you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want.
^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days. IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak. Please don't castrate my HMG further TYVM It will stay relatively the same as it is now. But I do firmly believe the weapon needs sharp shooter skill to make it a more viable weapon. If they add that and my SMG still messes up heavies 1 v 1 I'd be more than happy for you fat boys to get the damage buff back too
You sir get a +1 for being reasonable
How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
|
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7041
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 01:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:TL;DR version please. TL;DR Low TTK is hurting Dust because fitting diversity becomes irrelevant and lets medium range rifles do better than everything else in their own range. Rebreaking HD is a terrible solution. Giving dispersion to certain weapons is bad because it punishes players and doesn't discourage people from using them in CQC range. Increasing eHP can get messy. So we should remove 10% buff from 1.0 from SMGs, ARs, SCRs, and ASCRs to fix TTK.
Thank you, I've seen a thread on the subject in the feedback/request section (think it was Zeylon Rho's) making the same argument about TTK making fitting/customization irrelevant, and proposing the same solution in just a few paragraphs, though it was proposed for all weapons instead of just the select few IWS suggests.
Anyway, I support the idea.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
|
|
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe PC
RISE of LEGION
1911
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 01:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Great post IWS!
Some of you people need to seek out some meds.
If we want the diversity that has us all hooked to this game then it will be a constant battle for CCP to balance all of the options. We have a lot of sharp players that quickly analyze the best combos. Some people call it FOTM, but it's natural at this stage right now. I think it will get worse before it gets better with all the new racial suits and weapons coming soon. Don't forget above the removal and later reintroduction of high end vehicles. After that we could see a back and forth with vehicles and AV.
I think we should just accept that.
New content will help alleviate some of the angst in regards to balance. Changes to FW will be good, but will we have the wallets necessary to sustain ourselves until the player market arrives?
Stick around folks, I'm in the optimistic stage again.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
636
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 01:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Thank you, I've seen a thread on the subject in the feedback/request section (think it was Zeylon Rho's) making the same argument about TTK making fitting/customization irrelevant, and proposing the same solution in just a few paragraphs, though it was proposed for all weapons instead of just the select few IWS suggests.
Anyway, I support the idea.
I think it's a start. The AR will probably need some dispersion to prevent it from being so accurate at +80m. Also, they need to make it so all weapon kick isn't reset by simply letting go of the button for a fraction of a second.
After that, we'll see. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1150
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 01:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
I agree with the general idea here IWS, but its far too wordy. Not too long, I read it all easily, but the prose is too purple, try and go for a nice beige next time. Ypu speak alot of words, but forget to be clear as well as concise and as a result raise a ton of questions. You don't even explain your reasoning, just give your solution and sit on it :c
As for your 'solution', it is ham-handed at best. Lowering the damage output of the ARs, the SMGs, and the ScRs might fix it, but it might not. I'm also wondering how you will lower the output of the standard ScR's shots, but not it's charge. That seems like abit more work than CCP has ever given a weapon re-balance. Furthermore, what do you mean by 'High Auto'? Does this not include the Tactical and Burst AR, or the Breach AR and SMG? Give us precise names here. If that is the case, why should the ScR be nerfed, but not the TAR? And if you aren't careful with the Breach-to-Assault power balance then they might lose their intended purposes, with Assault having higher Damage per Second and Breach having higher Damage per Clip.
I'm sorry, but it just feels like too little and in too odd a set of places. I mean, most of us can agree that the AR is ahead of the curve, true, but the SMG? It's a short ranged weapon, correct? Is it too effective for a sidearm? And the ScR, a medium-long weapon? The AScR I understand, as it has to be weaker than the AR because it is the Tactical Rifle force-ably retrofitted into an AR,
The person who gets the color thing gets a space cookie.
ECM Equipment
|
IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University
Ivy League
373
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 01:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
Judging by the number of trolls your thread got hit with, I'd say you hit it on the money. Kill it with fire and move on.
Idioms aside.
Yes! I am glad to here that someone is taking this seriously. We have a problem retaining new players in the game and TTK is a big part of it. Most of us have the perspective to look back into beta and see how far we have come, but the guy who just downloaded DUST will log on -get blown to hell and quit.
TTK is no minor thing, It is a major factor in new player retention -or as I like to call it- FUN.
Please ignore those who are defending their KDR to make up for a small MEMBER-ship. |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
423
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 02:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Am I really the only one who liked the length of the posts? |
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
971
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 02:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
I started reading then remember IWS and CPM are an absolute joke and CCP need to stop all communication with them.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
|
4447
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
813
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 02:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP, I love what you've done with TTK it means i can kill more people with one mag, not 2 mags to kill one. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10144
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
4447 wrote:CCP, I love what you've done with TTK it means i can kill more people with one mag, not 2 mags to kill one.
I managed 4 on one mag today. Aim better.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
878
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:02:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection...
Wait it was the hit detection? I thought that I was getting trollolololed by an invisible wall
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
878
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I started reading then remember IWS and CPM are an absolute joke and CCP need to stop all communication with them.
Please explain how. Don't just insult people out of spite and/or jealousy.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
|
|
|
4447
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
813
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:4447 wrote:CCP, I love what you've done with TTK it means i can kill more people with one mag, not 2 mags to kill one. I managed 4 on one mag today. Aim better.
can you read?
I can kill more people with one mag.(this is now)
not two mags to kill one.(this is before)
|
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
142
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
Why do people think that they gave weapons a 10% buff? They never did that. Weapons were already that powerful. All they did was move it from a character skill to directly on the weapon. There was never a buff, if anything there have only been nerfs to weapon damage since open beta. Get your facts straight. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
365
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Great post IWS, I have no idea why people obsess over low TTK games. I mean yes having your TTK way to high makes it where people can just be stupid and run straight at a group of enemies, but crazy low TTK just turns it into a twitch shooter which are boring as hell. And for rowdy above me, they did give all weapons a 10% buff to dmg during the change from Chomosome to Uprising the skill they removed was sharpshooter which they retooled on some weapons to be a disperson skill. The old sharpshooter had AR's shooting at LR ranges, HMG's shooting at AR ranges, and LR's shooting at sniper ranges. |
Rowdy Railgunner
Xer Cloud Consortium
142
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:Great post IWS, I have no idea why people obsess over low TTK games. I mean yes having your TTK way to high makes it where people can just be stupid and run straight at a group of enemies, but crazy low TTK just turns it into a twitch shooter which are boring as hell. And for rowdy above me, they did give all weapons a 10% buff to dmg during the change from Chomosome to Uprising the skill they removed was sharpshooter which they retooled on some weapons to be a disperson skill. The old sharpshooter had AR's shooting at LR ranges, HMG's shooting at AR ranges, and LR's shooting at sniper ranges.
No, weaponry used to give a 2% per level damage boost to weapons. Now it just unlocks the different classes. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
I was looking for any reference to aim assist, but didn't find any. It doesn't help so much in short range, but does help with medium and long distance. I'd like to see AA removed. The iron sight has a big fat bar to aim with, which makes it hard to get distant kills, but the laser has a nice point to aim with for long distance. Make the sights reflect more about their intended gun range.
I agree that some guns need a nerf more than others, but I'd say that they all need a large damage reduction. Shaving off a couple points of damage from each bullet wont do much to extend the gun fighting time. It currently feels like we aren't even wearing armored high tech suits. |
DJINN Marauder
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
2831
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
Someone suggested adding multiple hit boxes to the player.
Efficiencies:
100% - Head
60% - Chest
50% - Lower Torso
30% - Limbs
This could outright fix ttk issues no?
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 2
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10147
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Someone suggested adding multiple hit boxes to the player.
Efficiencies:
100% - Head
60% - Chest
50% - Lower Torso
30% - Limbs
This could outright fix ttk issues no?
I would like similar done for vehicles (treads, side, cockpit, turret ect ect) and not only that expanded to classes further (IE heavy has a lower multiplier overall) but overall HP increasing or EHP would have a long turn around time and would need an extensive balance pass to make work and feel right after all is said and done.
Someone else brought it up another reason why you want a somewhat longer TTK is to encourage excellence in gun play. Short TTK is as most of you folks put caters to the scrubs. Those with excellent gun game are nearly unphased by longer TTKs. Similar to the forge gun splash nerf. I am fairly certain if you removed the splash entirely from the forge gun you will still get complaints about forge gun snipers because the best of the best of the FG snipers hit center mass for their kills.
AA I am a bit iffy on the controls for non keyboard and mouse and keyboard and mouse still has various degrees of disparity between the two. It's going to require far more refinement regardless though.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
1977
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:59:00 -
[68] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game)
Its still slower than open beta scouts
plus raising base speed would not increase sprint speed |
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics
Minmatar Republic
1977
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Someone suggested adding multiple hit boxes to the player.
Efficiencies:
100% - Head
60% - Chest
50% - Lower Torso
30% - Limbs
This could outright fix ttk issues no?
This would push the PS3 budget too far according to CCP |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
332
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game)
.....Your shitting me? How in the world is that almost breaking the game? If anything it's our only advantage. Plus, will there be a fix on stunlocking and phantom running for Scouts? |
|
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10147
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:20:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game) .....Your shitting me? How in the world is that almost breaking the game? If anything it's our only advantage. Plus, will there be a fix on stunlocking and phantom running for Scouts?
I think a better option is to give scouts less of a strafe and back pedal penalty or none at all for them allowing them to have a means of agility and role defining characteristic for its size. (while giving everyone else the pack pedal speed penalty)
Overall the problem with the speed limit is the game doesn't know what to do with infantry moving that fast. This is probably why earlier builds did have infantry to infantry collision damage and they where not supposed to. While its something I too would like to see done tis not a viable option in the short run because you will get faster heavies and faster mediums and the mediums are going to role stomp on the scouts even more so when the scout's own speed cannot be risen any further.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10147
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:22:00 -
[72] - Quote
This post was too good to pass up
Ghost Kaisar wrote:
Good to see that you aren't afraid to speak your mind.
On the other hand, raising TTK makes engagements less focused on gun game, and more on appropriate counters and tactics.
TL;DR for those who are lazy.
Damage values are percentage based, which yield larger values from higher bases. By decreasing TTK, you devalue that percentage (for example, right now the bonus is killing 0.1 seconds faster, but with a higher base, that bonus could be increased to about 0.5)
If you increase TTK, using weapons that are more effective vs. shields or armor would play a major factor in who wins firefights, not just who can apply DPS the fastest (hence the AR or ScR spam nowadays)
FOR EXAMPLE:
Gallente GK.0 vs Caldari CK.0 (assume stereotype tanking, with gallente stacking armor and caldari stacking shields)
lets just assume equal eHP, with 600 total.
100-500 for GK.0 and 500-100 for CK.0
Lets say that they both use AR's.
Standard DPS for AR is about 440
The Armor tank will rip through the shields in 1 second and the armor in 1/4 of a second. TTK is now roughly 1.25 seconds.
The Shield tank will rip through the shields in .2 seconds and the armor in 1.26 seconds. TTK is now 1.4
The difference is around 0.15 seconds. Thats a measly 66 damage with the AR. About 2 bullets difference. You miss 2 shots, and the armor tank loses his advantage.
Now lets say that we increase the TTK. Lets make them heavies with 2000eHP instead.
700-1300 vs. 1300-700 <-------- I know it's not realistic, thats not the point. I've really increased the eHP. Lets see the effect
So now we have to deal 2000 damage with a 440 DPS weapon. With an AR, the armor tanked heavy will kill the targets shields in 2.7 seconds and kill the armor in 1.7. TTK is now 4.4 seconds.
Now lets compare that to the other shoe. The Shield tanked one will kill the shields in 1.4 seconds and get through the armor in 3.3 seconds. Total TTK is now 4.7
That's only a .3 second difference, but that difference is around 132 eHP left to the survivor.
Now lets see what happens you enter the Advantageous encounter: You have an Armor tank with an ScR and an SMG as a backup. You face off against a Shield tank with only a ScR. Time for more maths.
700-1300 vs 1300-700
ScR does 20% extra damage to shields, but lets assume for DPS sake, that the DPS is equal to an AR. (This is to show the percentage difference, not the weapon difference).
Armor tank rips though the shields in 2.4 seconds. Switch to SMG. SMG deals 10% extra damage to armor (once again, DPS is still 440). Armor is gone in 1.4 seconds. TTK is now 3.8. That is almost a full second faster than the other tank. That is 440 eHP. You should win that engagement every time on equal ground.
With larger TTK's, the game will reward people who engage targets based on their weapons strengths. Right now, it's just a game of who shot who first with the AR or ScR.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
DJINN Marauder
Paladin Survey Force
Amarr Empire
2837
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:Someone suggested adding multiple hit boxes to the player.
Efficiencies:
100% - Head
60% - Chest
50% - Lower Torso
30% - Limbs
This could outright fix ttk issues no? This would push the PS3 budget too far according to CCP
It would? Damn... Even though it would make the game far better..
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 2
|
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
332
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game) .....Your shitting me? How in the world is that almost breaking the game? If anything it's our only advantage. Plus, will there be a fix on stunlocking and phantom running for Scouts? I think a better option is to give scouts less of a strafe and back pedal penalty or none at all for them allowing them to have a means of agility and role defining characteristic for its size. (while giving everyone else the pack pedal speed penalty) Overall the problem with the speed limit is the game doesn't know what to do with infantry moving that fast. This is probably why earlier builds did have infantry to infantry collision damage and they where not supposed to. While its something I too would like to see done tis not a viable option in the short run because you will get faster heavies and faster mediums and the mediums are going to role stomp on the scouts even more so when the scout's own speed cannot be risen any further.
I will agree with you about the back pedaling and strafing 1.4 was a godsend for Proto Minnie Scouts due to the Snake Strafe. But honestly though the Gallente Scout runs at 11.11, why are they faster? Minnie should run 11.11, while Gallente is 10.38. Going back on what you said about the Proto Minnie+ Knife running thing. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10148
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
Wikia states 5.7 run and 7.9 sprint for matar while gallente suffers at 5.5 and 7.6.
Unfourtuantely there is not an api fed stats available yet so bleh its likely wrong. Also its quite time in the house can't boot up to check.
I do know the Gallente scout is sorta screwed up with 1 high 4 lows and with 3 of them that's about 30% more sprint speed though
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
332
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Wikia states 5.7 run and 7.9 sprint for matar while gallente suffers at 5.5 and 7.6.
Unfourtuantely there is not an api fed stats available yet so bleh its likely wrong. Also its quite time in the house can't boot up to check.
I do know the Gallente scout is sorta screwed up with 1 high 4 lows and with 3 of them that's about 30% more sprint speed though
Yeah, it's pretty bad because the Gallente Scout OVERALL is just better performance wise in every Scout, thus far. It's faster, more EHP, Stealthier and a sleeker hit box. CCP, has to look at this I don't care about anything else more then my speed and Shotgun.
Gallente Scout w/ Complex Kin Cats= 11.11
Minnie Scout w/ Complex Kin Cats=10.38 |
Cosgar
ParagonX
7699
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 04:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
-Remove the emergency 10% damage buff on all weapons
-Reevaluate TTK and buff under performing weapons
-Remove the proficiency skill or make it affect DPS indirectly
-Reevaluate TTK
-Reduce the cap on strafing speed
-Reevaluate TTK
-Buff dropsuit base EHP
-Reevaluate TTK
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10152
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 09:48:00 -
[78] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:-Remove the emergency 10% damage buff on all weapons
-Reevaluate TTK and buff under performing weapons
-Remove the proficiency skill or make it affect DPS indirectly
-Reevaluate TTK
-Reduce the cap on strafing speed
-Reevaluate TTK
-Buff dropsuit base EHP
-Reevaluate TTK
Sounds like a good plan of action in decent order.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
902
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 10:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:4447 wrote:CCP, I love what you've done with TTK it means i can kill more people with one mag, not 2 mags to kill one. I managed 4 on one mag today. Aim better.
Not too shabby...
My best go trough a blob of 7 people with 20 rounds is my best kill count to date, and they were all fresh people, no nicks or damage on their suits, the 8 the and 9 the dont count cuzz i had to swap to my SMG due to overheating issues on the Imperial.
I dont seem to be having any issues with these low TTK's, but i see allot of proto stompers that have serious issues adapting to the new TTK's, though i must say when i watch Dust movies, the average proto stomper has a very bad reaction time.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
|
Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
977
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 13:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I started reading then remember IWS and CPM are an absolute joke and CCP need to stop all communication with them. Please explain how. Don't just insult people out of spite and/or jealousy.
After the thread named something like "CCP Allows glitchers to win tournament", IWS decided he'd drop some opinion which: Justified the use of glitches and called you **** if you were on the wrong end of the glitch. As he is a face of CPM combined the opinion I got is that IWS and CPM are jokes.
No possible way of being jealous of IWS
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
|
|
|
Snaps Tremor
DUST University
Ivy League
373
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 13:40:00 -
[81] - Quote
4447 wrote:CCP, I love what you've done with TTK it means i can kill more people with one mag, not 2 mags to kill one.
One mag of what! There are currently eight primary, four secondary and two heavy weapons in Dust, totalling fourteen unique weapons*!! How can we possibly guess which one of these weapons you're talking about with so little information!!!
* Not including variants!!!! |
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1503
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
I'll take door number 3 please, thank you.
Well, door number 4 also seems to both be a balance, and a TTK fix.
So... 4 please!
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
|
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1503
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:09:00 -
[83] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Atiim wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I started reading then remember IWS and CPM are an absolute joke and CCP need to stop all communication with them. Please explain how. Don't just insult people out of spite and/or jealousy. After the thread named something like "CCP Allows glitchers to win tournament", IWS decided he'd drop some opinion which: Justified the use of glitches and called you **** if you were on the wrong end of the glitch. As he is a face of CPM combined the opinion I got is that IWS and CPM are jokes. No possible way of being jealous of IWS
Really, IWS starts a thread to get feedback, and you ***** that he thinks that exploiting glitches was fine to win?
Does it matter? Should I care that IWS thinks that glitching is ok when we came to discuss the TTK issue?
Cause I really don't care.
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
|
Meeko Fent
Xer Cloud Consortium
1503
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:11:00 -
[84] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cosgar wrote:-Remove the emergency 10% damage buff on all weapons
-Reevaluate TTK and buff under performing weapons
-Remove the proficiency skill or make it affect DPS indirectly
-Reevaluate TTK
-Reduce the cap on strafing speed
-Reevaluate TTK
-Buff dropsuit base EHP
-Reevaluate TTK
Sounds like a good plan of action in decent order.
*Lurking in the shadows*
Do it...
For the State!
For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
|
Musta Tornius
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
648
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:Someone suggested adding multiple hit boxes to the player.
Efficiencies:
100% - Head
60% - Chest
50% - Lower Torso
30% - Limbs
This could outright fix ttk issues no? This would push the PS3 budget too far according to CCP It would? Damn... Even though it would make the game far better..
Wolfman told me on irc that they have several nodes on a player body which checks against hits when hit by explosions so I'm assuming it's being done already.
Dust514 Weapon Range & Information
|
ReGnYuM
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1302
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:26:00 -
[86] - Quote
Great Thread BTW IWS
As a side note:
Did you know that in BF4 and BF3 that all ARs or weapon classes have the same Damage and Range, yet an M416 will easily out gun an AEK in a distanced battle. I personally do not think ARs should be balance based on optimal range, but more on stability, recoil, and RoF.
BTW when are you gonna start playing PC I sure every team needs OMNI specialist to ring for them 
If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514.
KDR > EVERYTHING
|
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1209
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 14:44:00 -
[87] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear as my gek, this isn't right :/ why did I level up?
This is a beautiful thing and CCP deserves credit for it. It means that in the end how a player thinks and acts are far more important than their skillpoints or their ISK.
This does not say that we don't have serious balance issues or that we shouldn't be thinking about TTK. But it does imply that there's solid evidence that with full racial lineups, a second look at a few weapon roles, and a couple of balancing passes that we'll end up with a well-balanced game. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1778
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:00:00 -
[88] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
With that do know the CPM is unanimous on the TTK issue and are working closely with CCP on a favorable solution.
I like the detailed talk on this topic, but I'm wondering why nobody has brough up a ballpark for what a reasonable TTK SHOULD be. How can you be unanimous on it? Is the unanimity just on that TTK 'needs to be looked at'?
-What should be the penalty for choosing the wrong weapon in any engagement?
-How do you steer people away from the big alpha weapons? Remember another part of the reason that we got the 10% damage buff was because people were mainly using LAVs, mass drivers, and grenades for their 'alphas'. You bump TTK too much higher, and we will get the same problem. Everyone will just drive around in LAVs and only hop out to get objectives or kill AV.
- Another nuance I think needs to be included in the TTK issue is that TTK isn't the only thing that balances conflict in many other games. If TTK is your only balance metric, then all you can start to look at is DPS and eHP.
We can open up the question to the CPM, because I'm curious, but I personally think that disruption and support SHOULD play very important roles. IOW TTK should be pretty short when it's just gun vs. gun, but much more diverse and nuanced when support + gun vs. gun + gun or other scenarios.
What it is hard to compensate for in our operating concept of TTK is ALL of the things a player will do leading up to the moment that you open fire on a target (positioning, aim, target location, concentrated fire etc). If we are saying that TTK SHOULD be X all the time, what are we saying about all the other things players should be doing prior to shooting? A lot of times when I find myself killing folks really fast, it is when I'm intentionally flanking them and coming at them from the side while they are already strafing toward and away from me, reducing my transversal. Or when I find them standing still thinking they are safely aiming at someone. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1698
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:16:00 -
[89] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Great Thread BTW IWS As a side note: Did you know that in BF4 and BF3 that all ARs or weapon classes have the same Damage and Range, yet an M416 will easily out gun an AEK in a distanced battle. I personally do not think ARs should be balance based on optimal range, but more on stability, recoil, and RoF. BTW when are you gonna start playing PC I sure every team needs OMNI specialist to ring for them
This would be rather interesting even if, at minimum, Stability, recoil and RoF are used more as balancing sticks.
CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting...
Level 1 Forum Warrior
|
Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
1252
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 16:19:00 -
[90] - Quote
2 words: ****... yea...
I 100% agree with IWS's Ideas
"Please don't"
GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå
|
|
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10174
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 18:16:00 -
[91] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:Atiim wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I started reading then remember IWS and CPM are an absolute joke and CCP need to stop all communication with them. Please explain how. Don't just insult people out of spite and/or jealousy. After the thread named something like "CCP Allows glitchers to win tournament", IWS decided he'd drop some opinion which: Justified the use of glitches and called you **** if you were on the wrong end of the glitch. As he is a face of CPM combined the opinion I got is that IWS and CPM are jokes. No possible way of being jealous of IWS
How about you missing the point of my replies in that thread?
Has plenty to do with expectation settings.
I'll give you a cookie if you can tell me the most commonly used exploit/glitch during the squad cup.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10175
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 18:57:00 -
[92] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Great Thread BTW IWS As a side note: Did you know that in BF4 and BF3 that all ARs or weapon classes have the same Damage and Range, yet an M416 will easily out gun an AEK in a distanced battle. I personally do not think ARs should be balance based on optimal range, but more on stability, recoil, and RoF. BTW when are you gonna start playing PC I sure every team needs OMNI specialist to ring for them This would be rather interesting even if, at minimum, Stability, recoil and RoF are used more as balancing sticks.
This is a possible option as well. Been asking nicely for the scrambler to get a sharpshooter skill. Or like in the smg's case maybe its not the damage that needs nerfing but dispersion to make it slightly not as useful in much longer ranges.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Himiko Kuronaga
The Generals
EoN.
2291
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 22:48:00 -
[93] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:TL;DR version please. No, you don't get one. If you have the audacity to post, learn how to read. God damned cretins. Yes, such audacity to want something concise. Do you think of yourself as some astute intellectual because you can tolerate needlessly long forum posts so long that it needs to be split in 2? I need to read 15+ paragraphs to get someone's opinion on the TTK of a video game? EDIT: From the TL;DR posted by Krom below, it wasn't even a new idea either (though I support it).
If you are incapable of reading, you are incapable of delivering an educated opinion. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence is not intimidated by a couple posts with actual content in them.
Therefore it is best you remain silent where possible. This will allow the flow of good ideas and help stem the flow of ignorant ones. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1511
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 22:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
Okay, I gotta be honest, you would've made that shorter,as people (especially me, I shouldn't even be on my tablet right now; I'm chilling with a girl ) don't really have the time to read all of that. Anyways, I skimmed through it, and it seems as though you found a area in which you can talk about without sounding like a ******* idiot. I will elaborate in about a hour or so (unless everything goes right 'winks twice at screen, then does two nudging motions').
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10176
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 23:35:00 -
[95] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:TL;DR version please. No, you don't get one. If you have the audacity to post, learn how to read. God damned cretins. Yes, such audacity to want something concise. Do you think of yourself as some astute intellectual because you can tolerate needlessly long forum posts so long that it needs to be split in 2? I need to read 15+ paragraphs to get someone's opinion on the TTK of a video game? EDIT: From the TL;DR posted by Krom below, it wasn't even a new idea either (though I support it). If you are incapable of reading, you are incapable of delivering an educated opinion. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence is not intimidated by a couple posts with actual content in them. Therefore it is best you remain silent where possible. This will allow the flow of good ideas and help stem the flow of ignorant ones.
Now now now no need for hostilities on either side, I'll be honest it was a bit long winded but a bit necessary for the uninitiated or those not part of the conversation but clearly drew the wrong audience as those who knows the ins and outs had chimed in.
On the other hand the original post was about... 8 posts long and did some boiling of course as most of it was not necessary. You forget I am capable of very easily doing a 40 page post for an extensive idea, I have done it before in the past and repeat performance is a hop skip and jump away.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
CharCharOdell
1531
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 01:59:00 -
[96] - Quote
good post. +1
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
893
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 02:41:00 -
[97] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book) bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping each other and that's it
Try getting a headshot, finding an enemy sniper (that knows what their doing), removing the heavies with FGs of a roof, or shooting a scout that's sprinting. Then tell me that sniping has no skill
There are a lot of $#!t snipers out there, but to be a good one you need skill. And like PLCs, sniping is one of the few roles in this game that actually require skill and training.
When has a bullet ever gone through a wall? NEVER. Don't be upset because the sniper is actually smart enough to move into a spot where he can snipe you regardless of cover. It's funny when people hug a wall thinking that their safe; just to meet a prof IV and 3 complex damage modded Kaalokiota to their head....
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
|
medomai grey
WarRavens
League of Infamy
330
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 02:58:00 -
[98] - Quote
I agree with Iron_Wolf_Saber but I'm not too sure that the semi-automatic SCR needs a damage reduction.
The TTK for charged shots has the illusion of an instant kill. It takes 2 seconds to charge the shot and is normally followed up by a few shots to finish off the target. Charged shots should be powerful.
Spaming shots is risky because its very easy to over heat your rifle using this method. So if you fail to down your target and you over heat, your pretty much dead.
Also keep in mind that the scrambler rifle is one of the few weapons that did not receive the blanket 10% damage buff.
Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
|
Rowdy Railgunner
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 03:36:00 -
[99] - Quote
How many times do I have to say this before people realize it. THERE WAS NEVER A 10% BUFF, IT WAS ALREADY ON WEAPONS THROUGH SKILLS. ALL CCP DID WAS REMOVE IT FROM THE SKILL AND PUT IT DIRECTLY ON THE WEAPONS. NET CHANGE IN DAMAGE ZERO.
Actually, there was a nerf at the time on a few weapons as they were too damaging. You people need to get your facts straight. You are all basing your opinions on false premise. Bunch of ignoramuses around here. |
shady merc
RisingSuns
Public Disorder.
26
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 03:57:00 -
[100] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:How many times do I have to say this before people realize it. THERE WAS NEVER A 10% BUFF, IT WAS ALREADY ON WEAPONS THROUGH SKILLS. ALL CCP DID WAS REMOVE IT FROM THE SKILL AND PUT IT DIRECTLY ON THE WEAPONS. NET CHANGE IN DAMAGE ZERO.
Actually, there was a nerf at the time on a few weapons as they were too damaging. You people need to get your facts straight. You are all basing your opinions on false premise. Bunch of ignoramuses around here.
Actually when they released uprising the weapon skill did not give 10% that you are correct on . Then 4 days latter they gave a blanket buff to weapons of 10%. So yes the same 10% moved from a skill to the weapon, but it was mostly added back to combat then current TTK issues.
dicussion for 10% damage hotfix
In the next hot-fix weapons will all get a 10% damage increase to compensate for the removal of the Weaponry skill bonus.
GÇó HMG damage buffed to 18 HP (including aforementioned 10% increase) and given a 5% dispersion buff.
GÇó In the near future, we will address range issues by removing the hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range.
In Chromosome, the Weaponry skill gave an across the board 2% damage bonus to handheld weapons per level. Given the low SP cost of the skill (and the fact that itGÇÖs a pre-req for every weapon in the game) the majority of players would just skill straight to level 5 making the skill pretty pointless. So, in Uprising we removed the skill bonus. The side effect of this, of course, is that time-to-kill has increased.
This, combined with some of the control issues weGÇÖve been seeing, has led to combat feeling worse than it did in Chromosome. We will address this with a hot-fix that gives an across the board 10% increase to all handheld weapon damage to put DPS back to where it was. Additionally, weGÇÖve increased HMG damage and reduced the dispersion penalty when moving by 5% to address issues with the weapon. |
|
|
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
712
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 12:22:00 -
[101] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book) bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping eachother and thats it no atmosphere or gravity on planets and even in real a 400m kill with a sniper is ideal with very very little bullet drop and you have to think about it that the snipers we are using are thousands of years into the future.
doesnt matter the fact of the matter is sniping is the easiest in dust over all games ..and unlike mos games when u die in dust it matters..this game is destined to be a snipe fest if ccp doesnt apply skill to the task |
Arc-08
Knights Of Ender
Public Disorder.
125
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 12:54:00 -
[102] - Quote
why did you not mention nerfing aim assist?
Advanced Recon Commando's (A.R.C's) --- Yeah, you don't want to mess with us.
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
592
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 14:06:00 -
[103] - Quote
Arc-08 wrote:why did you not mention nerfing aim assist?
Because that's a terrible idea |
Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
449
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 15:46:00 -
[104] - Quote
IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote:Judging by the number of trolls your thread got hit with, I'd say you hit it on the money. Kill it with fire and move on. Idioms aside. Yes! I am glad to here that someone is taking this seriously. We have a problem retaining new players in the game and TTK is a big part of it. Most of us have the perspective to look back into beta and see how far we have come, but the guy who just downloaded DUST will log on -get blown to hell and quit. TTK is no minor thing, It is a major factor in new player retention -or as I like to call it- FUN. Please ignore those who are defending their KDR to make up for a small MEMBER-ship.
So you think a new player wants to take more time trying to take down an enemy who may have better damage mods and more shield/armor than them?
Is that the way to go?
I remember beta too, and trying to kill proto suits wasnt nice when you had the drop on people and it made no difference.
On the issue - instead of throwing out damage on weapons, how about the obvious, fixing them and turning down the aim assist. The AR's need proper kick so it isnt a water hose and needs real dispersion so you are forced to fire in controlled bursts unless you are close enough to just unload. The AScR definitely needs to overheat somewhere in that first clip.
We should also get rid of sharpshooter on all weapons that have it. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
449
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 15:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Arc-08 wrote:why did you not mention nerfing aim assist? Because that's a terrible idea
Why?
If it is because of kbm users - then yeah understand that but truth is, CCP should probably drop their support. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
592
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 15:51:00 -
[106] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Arc-08 wrote:why did you not mention nerfing aim assist? Because that's a terrible idea Why? If it is because of kbm users - then yeah understand that but truth is, CCP should probably drop their support.
Because before aim assist was fixed in 1.4 (or was it 1.5?) most people complained that dust had bad aiming. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
449
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 16:00:00 -
[107] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Arc-08 wrote:why did you not mention nerfing aim assist? Because that's a terrible idea Why? If it is because of kbm users - then yeah understand that but truth is, CCP should probably drop their support. Because before aim assist was fixed in 1.4 (or was it 1.5?) most people complained that dust had bad aiming.
Who was complaining though?
The kbm users or the ds3 ones?
I (ds3) never had an issue aiming and now its just general direction and pull the trigger. ADS is when you are more likely to miss 
If possible I would try to tone it down a bit on the auto weapons. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2174
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 16:50:00 -
[108] - Quote
+1 ... aiming is so improved you could make up for the disadvantages of a weapon's dispersion ...
+1 ... in game weapon theory you have Short, Medium, and Long range weapons ...
+1 ... shooting a guy with a difficult to aim weapon 10 times and he still does not drop is rather annoying ...
+1 ... as for why short range weapons get a high TTK is for the other reason, number of engagements ...
+1 ... getting into knifes edge is not as common as one thinks. Especially for a game that emphasizes sensors...
+1 ... getting into effective range of the short ranged weapon is in itself should be a reward ...
+1 ... short range weapons however are typically not much more powerful than the medium ranged weapons ...
+1 ... our problem weapon is the medium range weapon ...
+1 ... in a normalized game your medium range weapons would have some of the longest time to kills ...
+1 ... in Dust 514 ... medium range weapon is highest in regards of TTK ...
+1 ... that people drop far faster to a plasma rifle than they do to laser rifles or a sniper rifle ..
+1 ... it disenfranchises long range and short range (especially short range) play ...
+1 ... medium range weapons are suitable for all engagement opportunities and most scenarios ...
+1 ... a selection of guns that just 'role stomps' over the other guns making the other guns inferior ...
+1 ... creates an air of anti-diversity and in the long run destroys tall order playing and interactivity with the game ...
+1 ... we do not see some of our interesting fits anymore ...
+1 ... fights are also mostly becoming much less fun for both shooter and the guy getting shot ...
+1 ... shooter loses out because of the lack of challenge in his targets, point click dead, no need to track ...
+1 ... the victims lose out because they cannot be rewarded for good positioning or reflexes ...
+1 ... having extremely short time to kill heavily devalues a player's fitting skills ...
+1 ... return the game to being engaging for all ranged playstyles ...
+1 ... reward smart behaviors or good skills with victories while retaining punishment for being stupid ...
+1 ... if HD is allowing shots to hit through walls ... it does not need another nerf it actually needs a buff ...
+1 ... nerfing the detection is a step backwards in making the game un-fun for those who do pride on their precision ...
+1 ... increase dispersion for the problem weapons ...
+1 ... make the rifles not as sniper sharp giving some long range players some breathing room ...
+1 ... some weapons may lose their identify if (fire-rate) altered too much ...
+1 ... (prevent) 'bullet weavers' ...
+1 ... (increasing) suit HPs ... will continue to disenfranchise and hurt the short range and long range game styles ...
+1 ... the best solution in combination of adjustments to weapon performance ...
+1 ... direct damage nerf to overall output of the problem weapons ...
+1 ... (damage) needs to be rolled back on select weapons that are seemingly out of the 'curve' (SMGs, ARs, ScRs) ...
+1 ... increase the medium range TTK by a large fold to about another second or so ...
+1 ... with that do know the CPM is unanimous ... working closely with CCP on a favorable solution ...
+1 ... making shields and armor on targets matter ...
+1 ... enabling weapon selection against targets ...
+1 ... Increase battlefield diversity ...
+1 ... empowering intelligence choices and game-play excellence ...
+1 ... accommodating the need for Prototype weapons again, current TTK nullifies the need for them ...
Sum: +39
Best ... post ... ever.
Kudos to IWS and CPM for addressing the issue of weapon diversity and combat balance.
Best of luck in your continued efforts in working toward prompt and favorable solution. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1779
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 18:14:00 -
[109] - Quote
My paper games on weapon damage application
Guys...I think MOST of you are being WAY TOO generic about your criticism of TTK. I'm not saying it is ideal atm, just that this conversation is hot air until we get specific.
--I don't think proper consideration has been given to the EXTREME subjectivity of TTK.
--(Damage application) If a guy is charging his forge gun for 2 seconds and misses his first shot and hits on the second, it feels instant for the target, but isn't for the shooter.
--(Skill) If a shooter has an AScR and lands 4 rounds to the body and 1 to the head and you die instantly, it feels fast, but his shot is just good.
--(Damage application) If a short ranged weapon user had to move to close the distance on you because he knew it would be crap outside 35m, then at what point do you count as 'kill time'? Do you start counting when he started to move to close the gap?
--(Damage coordination) If you die to a mass driver round after somebody else's flux grenade, at what point does the TTK timer start? IMO, it's as soon as the guy who threw the grenade started to cook it.
A few points I think need to be made here:
1) TTK is fundamentally subjective for the person dieing.
2) The "TTK experience" is different for the shooter and target.
3) TTK SHOULD NOT be the same for the skilled and the unskilled player alike.
4) TTK cannot be balanced based on DPS and eHP alone.
5) TTK must consider the time it takes to apply DPS, not just the time you are doing damage.
6) TTK will feel short for high alpha weapons. The longer the TTK, the more players will gravitate for the alpha weapons (FG/core locus grenades, shotgun, charged weapons) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10211
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 18:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
Arc-08 wrote:why did you not mention nerfing aim assist?
Different monster that needs its own type of quelling one of which is consistency between clients.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
|
|
xp3ll3d dust
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
99
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 19:23:00 -
[111] - Quote
I'm against nerfing aim assist.
You don't want people to go back raging about controller issues, it is at a nice balance right nowl
Just a reduction in weapon damage across the board. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10216
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:25:00 -
[112] - Quote
xp3ll3d dust wrote:I'm against nerfing aim assist.
You don't want people to go back raging about controller issues, it is at a nice balance right nowl
Just a reduction in weapon damage across the board.
I don't think the proper wording or need for aim assist is meeting but fine tuning. We need it good enough that it would be barely notable.GÖÆ
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
commando biffle
Shadow Company HQ
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.13 22:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
trllololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol |
Ghost Kaisar
R 0 N 1 N
828
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 00:26:00 -
[114] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with
Good to see we agree about something for once
"All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10221
|
Posted - 2013.11.14 06:32:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with Good to see we agree about something for once
I am a pretty level headed guy at most times just I can't make everyone happy all the time, there are as you might note in this thread people who disagree with the short ttk being an issue.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Ghost Kaisar
R 0 N 1 N
845
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 01:29:00 -
[116] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with Good to see we agree about something for once I am a pretty level headed guy at most times just I can't make everyone happy all the time, there are as you might note in this thread people who disagree with the short ttk being an issue.
I think it's a huge issue. With TTK being so low, using weapons that are effective vs. Shields/Armor have such little effect, that the bonus is negligible. I did the math on using scramblers vs projectile weapons a while ago, and using an advantageous weapon with equal DPS only gained a 0.1 second decrease in TTK, which was about 66 pts of damage. Thats missing 2 shots on a target, and you lose the advantage. People will go with weapons that have a better applicable DPS over a weapon that is advantageous against the enemies main tank. This is why there is so much brick tanking going on. The type of armor doesn't matter anymore. It's the eHP that matters.
My 0.2 ISK.
"All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1736
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:57:00 -
[117] - Quote
Just wanted to throw in my two isk worth because Im concerned that the smg is being lumped in with the op rifles discussion.
You know, i actually think the smg is fine. Reason being that you have to get in very close range with it to get high dps. The fact that you have to get within half the optimum range of rifles to even reach your effective range means that you've already done a fantastic job of getting in close and deserve that high damage potential. It needs no more a nerf than any other cqc weapon like the shotgun or novas. It's definitely nowhere near as much a problem as the rifles with their long range and high dps.
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
7787
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 08:05:00 -
[118] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with Good to see we agree about something for once I am a pretty level headed guy at most times just I can't make everyone happy all the time, there are as you might note in this thread people who disagree with the short ttk being an issue.
Let's cut to the chase. Is CCP looking at TTK, or should I just take another extended break until things get sorted out?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
503
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 08:11:00 -
[119] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with Good to see we agree about something for once I am a pretty level headed guy at most times just I can't make everyone happy all the time, there are as you might note in this thread people who disagree with the short ttk being an issue. Let's cut to the chase. Is CCP looking at TTK, or should I just take another extended break until things get sorted out?
I want an answer to this too. When can we get a indication if CCP will do something about this or not? Its a really bad time to completely change a basic game mechanic and ruining the game.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10260
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 08:13:00 -
[120] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with Good to see we agree about something for once I am a pretty level headed guy at most times just I can't make everyone happy all the time, there are as you might note in this thread people who disagree with the short ttk being an issue. Let's cut to the chase. Is CCP looking at TTK, or should I just take another extended break until things get sorted out?
Yes its being TTK is being actively monitored and there are some plans ready to fire to address it, it may need fine tuning based on the results.
Just started a thread to create context, debate, and content for considerations.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
|
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
503
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 08:16:00 -
[121] - Quote
Nice, Im awaiting the changes eagerly. Might actually play a few games when they are released.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10260
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 08:20:00 -
[122] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Nice, Im awaiting the changes eagerly. Might actually play a few games when they are released.
Let me make a slight integration, plans will only fire if deemed necessary by the development team.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
7787
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 08:22:00 -
[123] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cosgar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with Good to see we agree about something for once I am a pretty level headed guy at most times just I can't make everyone happy all the time, there are as you might note in this thread people who disagree with the short ttk being an issue. Let's cut to the chase. Is CCP looking at TTK, or should I just take another extended break until things get sorted out? Yes its being TTK is being actively monitored and there are some plans ready to fire to address it, it may need fine tuning based on the results. Just started a thread to create context, debate, and content for considerations.
If it's being actively monitored like the academy, I might as well take a break then.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10261
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 10:05:00 -
[124] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:If it's being actively monitored like the academy, I might as well take a break then.
That's a different team which I heard has been tasked with something more important lately. Also they're busy enough not to break lunch with us often so 
Team Kong has nearly daily contact with the CPM however and we can nearly poke about it every day.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2279
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 04:28:00 -
[125] - Quote
Following up out of curiosity ...
Was the feedback well-received?
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10368
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 05:15:00 -
[126] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Following up out of curiosity ...
Was the feedback well-received?
No updates over the weekend, sorry.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1790
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 20:41:00 -
[127] - Quote
Boy, I'm really glad we came to an agreement on how low is too low. I can see us all being happy here in a few months when CCP figures it all out. I was worried that all that jello we were nailing to the wall was going to be for nothing.
...Oh wait... |
Vell0cet
Company of Marcher Lords
Amarr Empire
598
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 05:13:00 -
[128] - Quote
Great post IWS. My 2 ISK is TTK was too long in 1.3, slightly too short in 1.4/1.5 and broken in 1.6. I agree with the 10% damage nerf to the weapons you mentioned (and likely the RR & CR) as well as adding a slight bit of kick/dispersion to the AR (less than the AScR though) so it's not behaving like a LR with pinpoint accuracy at crazy ranges (with none of the drawbacks). The AR kick mechanism should be designed so a turbo controller can't bypass it.
I would really like to hear from CCP about TTK. Give us an ETA for when you'll address this game-breaking issue. Especially with the new rifles coming out (and no mention of TTK in the dev blog), the silence is becoming very worrying.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10595
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 05:52:00 -
[129] - Quote
I can't give an eta thats for the developmment team Ill keep poking until they decide to do it.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2428
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 06:02:00 -
[130] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I can't give an eta thats for the developmment team Ill keep poking until they decide to do it.
That sounds alot like "don't get your hopes up for 1.7" ...
More of the same to come, though in two new and exciting different flavors.
Is it just me, or are Rifles somehow and inexplicably sacred?
Thanks again for your and CPM's ceaseless efforts. o7 |
|
|
HUNK tm
What The French
21
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 06:44:00 -
[131] - Quote
In Call Of Dusty 1.6 whatever your role, you will all be killed at the same speed.
There is no more heavys like there is no more logistics since Uprising's new rules killed them.
(thx op logi armors!)
When a militia SMG can down a 1500 hp stuff in 3 sec there is a problem.
And wtf? The new hit detection don't change nothing for the HMG doing of it so ******.
Since 1.6 I finally feel I should stop Dust one day.
I never thinked about it before that.
excuse my english)
Why the HMG seems so inaccurate ?
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2428
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 06:53:00 -
[132] - Quote
HUNK tm wrote:In Call Of Dusty 1.6 whatever your role, you will all be killed at the same speed.
There is no more heavys like there is no more logistics since Uprising's new rules killed them.
(thx op logi armors!)
When a militia SMG can down a 1500 hp stuff in 3 sec there is a problem.
And wtf? The new hit detection don't change nothing for the HMG doing of it so ******.
Since 1.6 I finally feel I should stop Dust one day.
I never thinked about it before that.
excuse my english)
Your English is quite bad, but your point quite clear.
Some things work too well, and other things don't work well at all.
As a Shotgun Scout, you can count me among the latter.
I share in your discontent.
The more I play Dust, the less I want to.
Buff Heavies. Buff Scouts. Buff their favorite toys.
Nerf EZ Mode, and nerf it hard enough to bring it into balance. |
Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
103
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 07:05:00 -
[133] - Quote
List of things to do:
Aim Assist only in pubs
The other stuff you said.
"Do not underestimate the power you have."
|
HUNK tm
What The French
25
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 10:36:00 -
[134] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:HUNK tm wrote:In Call Of Dusty 1.6 whatever your role, you will all be killed at the same speed.
There is no more heavys like there is no more logistics since Uprising's new rules killed them.
(thx op logi armors!)
When a militia SMG can down a 1500 hp stuff in 3 sec there is a problem.
And wtf? The new hit detection don't change nothing for the HMG doing of it so ******.
Since 1.6 I finally feel I should stop Dust one day.
I never thinked about it before that.
excuse my english) Your English is quite bad, but your point quite clear. Some things work too well, and other things don't work well at all. As a Shotgun Scout, you can count me among the latter. As you are an HMG Heavy, I share in your discontent. You think 3 seconds is worthy of outrage? Run Scout for a day and see what 0.3 seconds feels like. Doesn't matter how fast your run, its always the same. They don't even have to aim. Buff Heavies. Buff Scouts. Buff their favorite toys. Nerf EZ Mode, and nerf it hard enough to bring it into balance.
You're too kind. Let's talk french then ? :)
C'est quasiment g+¬n+¬ral, beaucoup ont le sentiment que la 1.6 n'a rien apport+¬ de bon et je partage leur avis.
Je pense que CCP devrait y rem+¬dier et r+¬+¬quilibrer les d+¬g+óts.
This is the same feeling for many. Many are tired of the news of 1.6 and I'm agree with them.
I think CCP should rebalance the damages.
Why the HMG seems so inaccurate ?
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2428
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 14:41:00 -
[135] - Quote
HUNK tm wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:HUNK tm wrote:In Call Of Dusty 1.6 whatever your role, you will all be killed at the same speed.
There is no more heavys like there is no more logistics since Uprising's new rules killed them.
(thx op logi armors!)
When a militia SMG can down a 1500 hp stuff in 3 sec there is a problem.
And wtf? The new hit detection don't change nothing for the HMG doing of it so ******.
Since 1.6 I finally feel I should stop Dust one day.
I never thinked about it before that.
excuse my english) Your English is quite bad, but your point quite clear. Some things work too well, and other things don't work well at all. As a Shotgun Scout, you can count me among the latter. As you are an HMG Heavy, I share in your discontent. You think 3 seconds is worthy of outrage? Run Scout for a day and see what 0.3 seconds feels like. Doesn't matter how fast your run, its always the same. They don't even have to aim. Buff Heavies. Buff Scouts. Buff their favorite toys. Nerf EZ Mode, and nerf it hard enough to bring it into balance. You're too kind. Let's talk french then ? :) C'est quasiment g+¬n+¬ral, beaucoup ont le sentiment que la 1.6 n'a rien apport+¬ de bon et je partage leur avis. Je pense que CCP devrait y rem+¬dier et r+¬+¬quilibrer les d+¬g+óts. This is the same feeling for many. Many are tired of the news of 1.6 and I'm agree with them. I think CCP should rebalance the damages.
Agreed.
CCP did an excellent job addressing Knives and Shotguns.
Though, the net effect of 1.6 was to major buff AR / ScR.
Will anything good come from 1.7?
Perhaps a hard-counter or two to AR-514?
So far, what I see is more ARs.
Which appear to be balanced against the old ARs. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
444
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 15:50:00 -
[136] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:HUNK tm wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:HUNK tm wrote:In Call Of Dusty 1.6 whatever your role, you will all be killed at the same speed.
There is no more heavys like there is no more logistics since Uprising's new rules killed them.
(thx op logi armors!)
When a militia SMG can down a 1500 hp stuff in 3 sec there is a problem.
And wtf? The new hit detection don't change nothing for the HMG doing of it so ******.
Since 1.6 I finally feel I should stop Dust one day.
I never thinked about it before that.
excuse my english) Your English is quite bad, but your point quite clear. Some things work too well, and other things don't work well at all. As a Shotgun Scout, you can count me among the latter. As you are an HMG Heavy, I share in your discontent. You think 3 seconds is worthy of outrage? Run Scout for a day and see what 0.3 seconds feels like. Doesn't matter how fast your run, its always the same. They don't even have to aim. Buff Heavies. Buff Scouts. Buff their favorite toys. Nerf EZ Mode, and nerf it hard enough to bring it into balance. You're too kind. Let's talk french then ? :) C'est quasiment g+¬n+¬ral, beaucoup ont le sentiment que la 1.6 n'a rien apport+¬ de bon et je partage leur avis. Je pense que CCP devrait y rem+¬dier et r+¬+¬quilibrer les d+¬g+óts. This is the same feeling for many. Many are tired of the news of 1.6 and I'm agree with them. I think CCP should rebalance the damages. Agreed. CCP did an excellent job addressing Knives and Shotguns. Though, the net effect of 1.6 has been to massively buff AR / ScR. Will anything good -- as in harder-counters / nerfs / etc -- come from 1.7? So far, what I see is more ARs. Which appear to be balanced against the old ARs.
Which is probably why there isn't much comment about TTK. They've already created those weapons and published the stats. So, doing anything significant to address TTK is probably wasted effort in their minds right now, which, considering the sheer number of things that need some polish (thankfully the list is getting shorter and each item less game-breaking) is probably a wise decision on their part.
They already tried the model of deploying a bunch of hot-fixes that not infrequently caused as many problems as they solved; it was inefficient and didn't work. Ever since they moved to a more thorough and well thought out ground-up development model there has been a net increase in the pace of improvement, IMO. Yes, they should have done that in beta, but that's a whole other discussion.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2437
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 17:02:00 -
[137] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:
Which is probably why there isn't much comment about TTK...
My thoughts exactly.
Which is why this thread -- and underlying efforts by CPM -- is so important.
Each iteration of Uprising to date has served to reinforce the status quo.
Improvements seem to revolve around MedFrames and Rifles.
Sure, there are other suits and weapons ...
Be patient, we'll get around to those eventually ...
In the mean time, check out this new Rifle ...
This thread is a call for CCP to prioritize balance.
I'm quite impressed here with IWS and his counterparts. |
Text Grant
Death Firm.
244
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 22:48:00 -
[138] - Quote
Just reduce every weapon by 10% and maybe medium range weapons by 12 or 13%. The point of this game is long TTK to make it different from EVERY OTHER SHOOTER. |
Rowdy Railgunner
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
223
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 22:55:00 -
[139] - Quote
Text Grant wrote:Just reduce every weapon by 10% and maybe medium range weapons by 12 or 13%. The point of this game is long TTK to make it different from EVERY OTHER SHOOTER.
All a long TTK will do is make less and less people play it. If you want to play chess, go play chess. If you want to play a FPS then STFU. If you die too fast here is an idea, equip some tank mods. You know, those things that raise your HP. |
Text Grant
Death Firm.
244
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 23:03:00 -
[140] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Text Grant wrote:Just reduce every weapon by 10% and maybe medium range weapons by 12 or 13%. The point of this game is long TTK to make it different from EVERY OTHER SHOOTER. All a long TTK will do is make less and less people play it. If you want to play chess, go play chess. If you want to play a FPS then STFU. If you die too fast here is an idea, equip some tank mods. You know, those things that raise your HP.
Go back to COD |
|
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
8272
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 23:24:00 -
[141] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
Which is probably why there isn't much comment about TTK...
My thoughts exactly. Which is why this thread -- and underlying efforts by CPM -- is so important. Each iteration of Uprising to date has served to reinforce the status quo. Improvements seem to revolve around MedFrames and Rifles. Sure, there are other suits and weapons ...
Be patient, we'll get around to those eventually ...
In the mean time, check out this new Rifle ...This thread is a call for CCP to prioritize balance. I'm quite impressed here with IWS and his counterparts.
But the biggest issue is broken mechanics that need to take priority. Remember the video proof that the AR has 0 kick/dispersion after 30 rounds? They don't know if it's mechanically intended or not.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1562
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 23:27:00 -
[142] - Quote
Rowdy Railgunner wrote:Text Grant wrote:Just reduce every weapon by 10% and maybe medium range weapons by 12 or 13%. The point of this game is long TTK to make it different from EVERY OTHER SHOOTER. All a long TTK will do is make less and less people play it. If you want to play chess, go play chess. If you want to play a FPS then STFU. If you die too fast here is an idea, equip some tank mods. You know, those things that raise your HP.
COD Is this way
You're better off here. And you'll get locked up with the rest of your "people" where you truly belong.
My Very First Thread About Tanks
-HAND
|
abarkrishna
warravens
111
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 14:48:00 -
[143] - Quote
I for one would love to see an increase in TTK. playing this game for a year grinding every week to still die in one second is crap.
Secondly TTK has resulted in everyone stacking as much HP as possible. Because of this everyone ends up running the same builds. Suits with lower HP like scouts particularly suffer because of this. I came to this game with the promise that it would be different, that their would be significant differences between peoples suits.
Now it is just like COD. Everyone running the same guns with the same modules crying about suits that fit slightly more HP (like the logi)
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
|
Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
501
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 14:59:00 -
[144] - Quote
While I wouldnt mind seeing a slight raise in this mythical TTK, I dont want it to be how it was in beta where Proto suits just ate rounds on end.
People who want this game to be a "tracking shooter" or whatever I think want what the masses dont want and will differ with CCP on the market they are trying to capture imho.
If it ends up similar to Gears then I would be happy. Some weapons kill extremely quick, some take time. Thats why I would support toning down the full auto weapons a bit. Its the reason they have so many rounds.
Buff shotguns, flaylocks, plasma cannons and the only full auto the hmg. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1401
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:10:00 -
[145] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Cosgar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: His only post I have ever agreed with Good to see we agree about something for once I am a pretty level headed guy at most times just I can't make everyone happy all the time, there are as you might note in this thread people who disagree with the short ttk being an issue. Let's cut to the chase. Is CCP looking at TTK, or should I just take another extended break until things get sorted out? I want an answer to this too. When can we get a indication if CCP will do something about this or not? Its a really bad time to completely change a basic game mechanic and ruining the game.
Heh, I'm already taking a break. I'll come back when 1.7 is released to try out the new toys, but I expect TTK won't have changed yet so I won't be around long. I had more fun in early closed beta than I'm having lately. I get about 2 matches in and I'm ready to go play something else, so I just stopped playing in the first place. |
Kazeno Rannaa
BIG BAD W0LVES
350
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:13:00 -
[146] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:I stopped after "welcome to Hit Detection 514"...TOO....MUCH....WOOOOORDS!
No, you are just lazy. Your clone should be liquidated fro biomass.
"Mind is the Only reality, of which all other natures are better or worse reflections.GÇ¥ RWE
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
430
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:30:00 -
[147] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:I agree with the general idea here IWS, but its far too wordy. Not too long, I read it all easily, but the prose is too purple, try and go for a nice beige next time. Ypu speak alot of words, but forget to be clear as well as concise and as a result raise a ton of questions. You don't even explain your reasoning, just give your solution and sit on it :c
As for your 'solution', it is ham-handed at best. Lowering the damage output of the ARs, the SMGs, and the ScRs might fix it, but it might not. I'm also wondering how you will lower the output of the standard ScR's shots, but not it's charge. That seems like abit more work than CCP has ever given a weapon re-balance. Furthermore, what do you mean by 'High Auto'? Does this not include the Tactical and Burst AR, or the Breach AR and SMG? Give us precise names here. If that is the case, why should the ScR be nerfed, but not the TAR? And if you aren't careful with the Breach-to-Assault power balance then they might lose their intended purposes, with Assault having higher Damage per Second and Breach having higher Damage per Clip.
I'm sorry, but it just feels like too little and in too odd a set of places. I mean, most of us can agree that the AR is ahead of the curve, true, but the SMG? It's a short ranged weapon, correct? Is it too effective for a sidearm? And the ScR, a medium-long weapon? The AScR I understand, as it has to be weaker than the AR because it is the Tactical Rifle force-ably retrofitted into an AR,
The person who gets the color thing gets a space cookie.
^^ spot on. +1
I am 85% on board with you, IWS. Not sure why you only singled out those weapons if ALL received the previous 10% damage buff. Why the SMG if this is about medium range? Medium range is the far side of optimal for that weapon class.
I do think recoil / dispersion need to be addressed in some weapons such as the AR. I invite you to compare performance of the ASCR and AR in this matter...you'll fined that the weapon that essentially uses a controlled mini explosion to shoot a "doped plasma" round has waaaay less recoil and dispersion than a pulse laser. I don't have a physics degree but that sounds a bit shady.
Again...I really like where you and the CPM are on this and you make some good points but it does need to be examined. |
IraqiFriendshipExplosive
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:39:00 -
[148] - Quote
Seriously - why would a newbie play a new shooting game (Called DUST514) when they are at such a disadvantage vs vets in proto suits in proto squads?
Its bad game design, this is not eve and there is no other modes or options to chose from (Like PVP or proper matchmaking)
I understand there has to be differences and the "Eve universe is harsh" *yawn...* but its just too much of a margin I think, personally. This is coming from someone who played since beta.
That is just one of manyyyy problems....It is also the main problem anyone I have tried to get into this game has told me. Also starting gear is just way off the mark. At least give new guy proper fits instead of the junk you give them. |
Thorn Badblood
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:44:00 -
[149] - Quote
I miss the times when a good fire fight with an enemy would be something I talked about for the rest of the day.
D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization
|
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
5686
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 21:37:00 -
[150] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game)
IWS, I like to let you know that I believed in this statement of yours.
...
...well... back when hit detection was actually crap back in Uprising 1.3. But we are now on the eve of Uprising 1.7 and so far the hit detection has been vastly improved ever since Uprising 1.5. It's not too much to ask anymore to buff the sprint speed of the scout suits.
As DTOracle pointed out below:
Quote:
I don't need to dodge bullets, but if it only takes 1-4 to take me down. I should be hard as hell to hit.
He's not exaggerating at all on what it takes to take a scout down. I often run Minmatar Scout and only dedicate the only two low slots I have to kin cats and so far it's just not enough, at least not anymore.
We're not asking to dodge anything like Super Sayians in DragonBall Z Ultimate Tenkaichi. We're just asking for a chance to at least escape when we have to. So far, escape is no longer an option. If I'm spotted, I'm dead no matter what action I take.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
|
|
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
841
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 21:48:00 -
[151] - Quote
Any updates on this?
When can we expect it to be solved? 1.8?
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
2727
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 22:00:00 -
[152] - Quote
1.7 - New Fine Rifles. One will outperform the others.
1.8 - All other Fine Rifles buffed to match. For balance.
1.9 - Yay! Scout Buff. Big IRC discussion. Everyone agreed Shared Squad Sight was best possible buff.
2.0 - Yay! Heavy Buff. HMG dispersion fixed. Fine Rifles buffed in advance. For balance.
|
Scout Registry
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.08 22:21:00 -
[153] - Quote
oops |
crazy space 1
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
2140
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 01:54:00 -
[154] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Rowdy Railgunner wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless.
You know I thought about it and you missed the point. I know it's been a while but hear me out.
If skill points make the miltia gun as good as proto, and the TTK is so low, then the skill system supports making some protoweapons obsoltue once you max the skills for that gun.
TTK and the whole weapon tier balance system need to be relooked at. |
Solitar Greywatch
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
117
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 02:00:00 -
[155] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:I stopped after "welcome to Hit Detection 514"...TOO....MUCH....WOOOOORDS!
The words! IT BURNS! |
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
130
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 02:22:00 -
[156] - Quote
Hmmm.. I remember when TTK was so high, I could shot a tanked proto user. He would stop, text his friend, then turn around and kill me. The lowered TTK last few patches been amazing for the little guys who have patients.
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Original ROF needs to return!
|
Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
85
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 03:04:00 -
[157] - Quote
The TTK was good IMHO until 1.7. Well I mean after we started seeing matches that lacked tank spamming once more. The balance of the Rifles needs a look over.
Assault Rifle, aka Plasma Rifle
Based off of Blasters in Eve they are supposed to have the highest DPS of turrets in the game, but counter that with abysmally short ranges. They typically due somewhat more damage to shields than Armor.
Rail Rifle
Rail gun turrets in Eve have a much greater range than the blaster cousins, but because of slower RoF their listed DPS pales to blasters. They typically due more damage to armor.
Now unless the stats I'm looking at are wrong, the Assault Rifle in Dust has a terrific RoF but a comparatively low damage per shot, which makes sense. But when compared with the Rail Rifle's range, damage per shot, and the fact that it can blow through most shields and then punch right through the armor, the rate of fire doesn't seem to prevent these rifles from having a greater DPS at any range than their Plasma Blaster cousins.
10% nerf across the board? A good start sure, consider me a hard won +1.
But looking at these numbers, again unless my math and stats are way off base (though I doubt it) another look needs to be done to balance the range vs. DPS on these and all weapons.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
|
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 03:20:00 -
[158] - Quote
I stopped reading when you didn't address the rail rifle as the number one reason this game is no longer fun. Engagements that used to involve multiple weapons and ranges are being shot out long range with the rail rifle. Map design hasn't changed much since chromosome so its like the viziam. An extremely powerful accurate weapon that everyone uses. Diversity is sorely lacking.
Rail 514. Tank or rifle you choose.
I am the real Darken
|
Rusty Shallows
841
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 03:41:00 -
[159] - Quote
VAHZZ wrote:I stopped after "welcome to Hit Detection 514"...TOO....MUCH....WOOOOORDS!
I was deeply insulted the graphs didn't have pages of data points. Then after reading the theoretical representations I got over it.
The post would greatly benefit an organizational overhaul. Titled sections marked with underline, bold, or both. A single paragraph premise and conclusions. I spent more time trying to figure out what IWS was trying to say instead of the merits of his argument.
MCC Lounge Lizard
Forums > Game
Fix the game CCP
|
Slightly-Mental
Planetary Research and Investments
Ash's to Ash's
65
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 03:51:00 -
[160] - Quote
Fix the ishukone and kaalakiota sniper rifles, for whats its worth you may as well use ADV
charge rifle is about right but as said above ishukone and kaalakiota are too under powered to it. *same to the state proto in loyalty store.
tweek hit detection on sniper rifles.
Fix to graphic glitches of the scope of sniper rifles that causes models to pop in and out of view. Also you get models hanging making you re-zoom.
This is what most real dedicated snipers are asking for.
sniper's are already broke. A 10% nerf across the board would damage them beyond being effective on the battle field.
*proto V proto
They wasn't this bad in v1.5, and they we're broken then. And some how the graphic glitches of the scope as gotten worse. |
|
|
GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
250
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 04:26:00 -
[161] - Quote
Agreed.
Open Beta Fed 16th 2013. Scout fix + Heavy suits + Heavy guns = soonGäó
|
Beck Weathers
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 04:40:00 -
[162] - Quote
Its sad that I enjoyed and found the game more chalanging back when hit detection was bonkers, Speed tanking felt amazing, hurtaling over handrails and off of platforms to head shot people before landing on their corpse. Having gun fights where skilling up rechargers and regulaters meant you could slip into cover and jump out again a new man, rather than die before you can back pedal 1 foot into the cover you just came from. |
Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
555
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 04:55:00 -
[163] - Quote
... this was written before combat rifles and rail rifles... Now its even more true but that doesn't surprise me.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
|
Scott Knight
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 05:08:00 -
[164] - Quote
Vegetation Monster wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Vegetation Monster wrote:Atiim wrote:See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... sniping in dust is the most **** tarded thing..and not even a little bit realistic i agree with what i saw in your post wolf saber as i scanned it (for reals that **** might as well be a prologue to ur book) bullet dispersion needs to be raised on certain weapons and the whole bullets going around walls and through them is complete bullshit and needs to be fixed one thing that did bother me sniping in dust is not hard it is easy and ******** not even a little bit realistic bullet travel in dust is laughable to be honest dust is going to end up just like halo 2 a bunch of assholes running around sniping eachother and thats it no atmosphere or gravity on planets and even in real a 400m kill with a sniper is ideal with very very little bullet drop and you have to think about it that the snipers we are using are thousands of years into the future.
All planets have gravity. It's why all planets are circles. All planets have an atmosphere just made up of different things. So all bullets should fall to the ground. How fast they do so and whether future bullets are smart or whatever is a different story. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
94
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 06:11:00 -
[165] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game)
could you explain these mechanics to me, and how they are game breaking? also, a gallente scout currently can travel faster than a min scout at 11.11 m/s max.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
|
Lorhak Gannarsein
1247
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 06:35:00 -
[166] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DTOracle wrote:I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game) could you explain these mechanics to me, and how they are game breaking? also, a gallente scout currently can travel faster than a min scout at 11.11 m/s max.
I don't know for certain, but I understand they would actually start skipping frames or something like that. Apparently the engine can't handle something so small going so quickly. (Relative to LAVs and HAVs, that is - I've seen a few people complaining that that can't be the case because vehicles go so fast)
PRO tanker and proud.
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12347
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 06:54:00 -
[167] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:I stopped reading when you didn't address the rail rifle as the number one reason this game is no longer fun. Engagements that used to involve multiple weapons and ranges are being shot out long range with the rail rifle. Map design hasn't changed much since chromosome so its like the viziam. An extremely powerful accurate weapon that everyone uses. Diversity is sorely lacking.
Rail 514. Tank or rifle you choose.
I sorta wrote this before rail rifles where an inkling in most people's eyes.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
371
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 07:58:00 -
[168] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Overall Dust 514 does a fair job on this (except in the cases where one engagement range cannot reach the other such as top of the comm towers) so map design itself is not a universal issue in Dust 514 in comparison to a game such as call of duty's extremely constrained maps for justification of its sniper weapons having no scoping which might as well be a short range gun in that game.
OK, I want to make sure I am not misquoting you or misunderstanding you. You think Dust maps aren't part of the problem?
If this is your stance I completely and utterly disagree. Dust's gun design (after the range fix back in 1.3 or whenever) is only a small part of the problem and is nowhere near as dramatic as most people think. They have problems stemming from having no ballistics modelling in the game so they can't implement complex projectile mechanics but appalling map design is far more contributory than any gun design issues. |
Shiruba Ryou
142
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 08:09:00 -
[169] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Either way there is enough crap coming down 1.8 that I cannot be bothered to update this post.
Your getting this like because of that sentence right here. Clearly the words of a man with **** to do.
Respect.
"Not to worry. The cards say you loved it."
- Ryoutoshi
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |