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Why a low average TTK bad.

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10129	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:15:00 - [31] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: 8213 wrote: VAHZZ wrote: I'm 21, i'm grown up, i reguarly read Edgar Allen Poe...but this is still too long for mua Its not even 1000 words... perhaps you still need to grow up more or hope you never have a job that requires you know massive amounts of information on short notice... ? Kudos for reading Poe though. Been a favorite of mine for 25 years :) you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want. Victim of society's rules and expectations. Enslaved by the system and sells himself on the idea that he is free when he is truly shackled. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Rowdy Railgunner Xer Cloud Consortium 142	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:16:00 - [32] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So the best solution in combination with some adjustments to weapon performance would be a direct damage nerf to overall output of the problem weapons. Remember when 1.0 rolled out we had issued out a 10% damage BUFF to ALL weapons to account for horrendous hit detection and now that hit detection is near where it should be the change needs to be rolled back on select weapons that are seemingly out of the 'curve'. So following weapons that should be affected: High Auto SMGs High Auto Plasma Rifles SCR (standard shots) and ASCR Quit changing history. That is not the reason that a 10% damage buff was added to weapons. It was added because of the removal of it from skills. If you have to lie to get your way then your way is flawed. You're both right, the 10% damage buff was added because people felt that TTK was to high back then - as a result of the weaponry skill being changed, as well as the non functioning AA and the poor hit detection. Now that hit detection and AA are actually working, TTK has gone through the floor - removing the 10% buff seems like the low hanging fruit as far as increasing it again goes. Except it wasn't a buff. It was the way that it already was. All they did was change the 10% from a skill to a straight modification of the weapons. All weapons were already at a 10% damage increase. And TTK wasn't too high back then, infact it was much much lower due to the OPness of the LR and ARs. So how many other people have 30/50 hindsight?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10129	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:17:00 - [33] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: So how many other people have 30/50 hindsight? Most people have 0/0 back vision. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Rowdy Railgunner Xer Cloud Consortium 142	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:20:00 - [34] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless. Tell that to the people QQing about duv and imp wrecking face on the battlefield. I'm sure they will have a different take on it than you.
DTOracle The Surrogates Of War 145	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:21:00 - [35] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DTOracle wrote: I would like to add that the base Dropsuit speed be brought back up, especially for scouts. Since the hit detection is fixed, I want my 11+m/s back. Scouts are simply too slow ATM. I wished that was a solution but we're at our speed limits almost. (proto minni scout + max proto kin kats = almost breaking game) Then Push It To the Limit dammit. I'm not asking for a better slot layout(which we won't get), more HP(also, not likely to get), or more CPU/PG like everyone else are demanding. I'll even settle for more base stamina & no delay on recharging.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10129	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:21:00 - [36] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless. Tell that to the people QQing about duv and imp wrecking face on the battlefield. I'm sure they will have a different take on it than you. Actually the number of people complaining on how useless the duvolle has been verse the gek has been increasing substantially. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Rowdy Railgunner Xer Cloud Consortium 142	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:26:00 - [37] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Actually the number of people complaining on how useless the duvolle has been verse the gek has been increasing substantially. Probably because the system is like EVE, where you can skill into a weapon and then fit a lower tier so that you can use better tank mods. Who would of thunk it. CCP made EVE DUST just like EVE Online in some aspects.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 441	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:41:00 - [38] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want. ^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days. IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7040	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:43:00 - [39] - Quote TL;DR version please. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2268	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:45:00 - [40] - Quote You just demanded that people read and actually comprehend something, IWS. That is beyond the pay grade of the 13 year olds who are in present company. Thank you for the effort, though.

Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 222	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:47:00 - [41] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want. ^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days. IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak. Please don't castrate my HMG further TYVM How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2270	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:48:00 - [42] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: TL;DR version please. No, you don't get one. If you have the audacity to post, learn how to read. God damned cretins.
ReGnYuM Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1301	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:51:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? And people wonder why I went omni. No No No you're not Omni Aldin Kan is Omni <3 If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514. KDR > EVERYTHING
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 441	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:53:00 - [44] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: I've got 12 million skill points and I can get just as many kills using militia gear , this isn't right :/ why did I level up? So that your militia gear is better. That is what the skill system is in place for. But it works just as well as my gek. So why not just remove weapons tiers and make it so my advantage is my skills only not the gun? Right now proto weapons are pointless. Tell that to the people QQing about duv and imp wrecking face on the battlefield. I'm sure they will have a different take on it than you. People QQ'd about Imps and Tac AR, and Imps and Caldari logi, and Imps and HMG in chromosome, and tank spam and damn near everything in between. If anyone thinks this or any other multiplayer game will be balanced is a fool. There will always be some people who will upset the balance either by skill, cheating, or finding some "exploit" and using it. Figuring out how to beat the system and then using that knowledge to wring tears from other gamers is all such people live for. You can't balance a game around these people all you can do is refuse to play them. You have all too much rage over this topic Rowdy, I'm assuming the shorter TTK suits you and your playstyle well and your KDR has risen in the past week. Good for you, mine has too, I've been kicking butt with my assault alt. character, however, the longer TTK made the game more unique in its crowded FPS niche and more fun to play in general (my own personal KDR be damned) For the record a proto suit is not an instant I win button either, it gives you a couple more slots and the PG/CPU to fit those modules and a proto gun, that's it. The best players will continue to stomp whether TTK is high, low, or in between, not because of proto suits but because they mob with other good players, know the maps, have skills, and use the core locus grenade tactic.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7040	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:54:00 - [45] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: TL;DR version please. No, you don't get one. If you have the audacity to post, learn how to read. God damned cretins. Yes, such audacity to want something concise. Do you think of yourself as some astute intellectual because you can tolerate needlessly long forum posts so long that it needs to be split in 2? Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 441	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:55:00 - [46] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want. ^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days. IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak. Please don't castrate my HMG further TYVM It will stay relatively the same as it is now. But I do firmly believe the weapon needs sharp shooter skill to make it a more viable weapon. If they add that and my SMG still messes up heavies 1 v 1 I'd be more than happy for you fat boys to get the damage buff back too
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1911	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:57:00 - [47] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: 8213 wrote: VAHZZ wrote: I'm 21, i'm grown up, i reguarly read Edgar Allen Poe...but this is still too long for mua Its not even 1000 words... perhaps you still need to grow up more or hope you never have a job that requires you know massive amounts of information on short notice... ? Kudos for reading Poe though. Been a favorite of mine for 25 years :) you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want. I hope you aren't procreating Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 633	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:58:00 - [48] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: TL;DR version please. TL;DR Low TTK is hurting Dust because fitting diversity becomes irrelevant and lets medium range rifles do better than everything else in their own range. Rebreaking HD is a terrible solution. Giving dispersion to certain weapons is bad because it punishes players and doesn't discourage people from using them in CQC range. Increasing eHP can get messy. So we should remove 10% buff from 1.0 from SMGs, ARs, SCRs, and ASCRs to fix TTK.
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 222	Posted - 2013.11.12 00:59:00 - [49] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Vegetation Monster wrote: you're old, you got nothing more to do in life than read and play games, im young and ima do what ever the hell i want, i like dust 514 so i play it, i like football so i play it, i dislike reading so i dont waste my time on it but i love to argue and im too lazy to capitalize the "i" in my writing because i can do what ever the fk i want. ^And this is why the good old USA is only first in blowing sh!t up these days. IWS your post was thoughtful and well argued and used many words to say what I did a couple days ago: "Lets roll back the 10% damage buff and see how she plays" I think we would be best served by taking it across the board and seeing the effect and then adding back to weapons that are then too weak. Please don't castrate my HMG further TYVM It will stay relatively the same as it is now. But I do firmly believe the weapon needs sharp shooter skill to make it a more viable weapon. If they add that and my SMG still messes up heavies 1 v 1 I'd be more than happy for you fat boys to get the damage buff back too You sir get a +1 for being reasonable How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7041	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:08:00 - [50] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: TL;DR version please. TL;DR Low TTK is hurting Dust because fitting diversity becomes irrelevant and lets medium range rifles do better than everything else in their own range. Rebreaking HD is a terrible solution. Giving dispersion to certain weapons is bad because it punishes players and doesn't discourage people from using them in CQC range. Increasing eHP can get messy. So we should remove 10% buff from 1.0 from SMGs, ARs, SCRs, and ASCRs to fix TTK. Thank you, I've seen a thread on the subject in the feedback/request section (think it was Zeylon Rho's) making the same argument about TTK making fitting/customization irrelevant, and proposing the same solution in just a few paragraphs, though it was proposed for all weapons instead of just the select few IWS suggests. Anyway, I support the idea. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1911	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:12:00 - [51] - Quote Great post IWS! Some of you people need to seek out some meds. If we want the diversity that has us all hooked to this game then it will be a constant battle for CCP to balance all of the options. We have a lot of sharp players that quickly analyze the best combos. Some people call it FOTM, but it's natural at this stage right now. I think it will get worse before it gets better with all the new racial suits and weapons coming soon. Don't forget above the removal and later reintroduction of high end vehicles. After that we could see a back and forth with vehicles and AV. I think we should just accept that. New content will help alleviate some of the angst in regards to balance. Changes to FW will be good, but will we have the wallets necessary to sustain ourselves until the player market arrives? Stick around folks, I'm in the optimistic stage again. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 636	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:15:00 - [52] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Thank you, I've seen a thread on the subject in the feedback/request section (think it was Zeylon Rho's) making the same argument about TTK making fitting/customization irrelevant, and proposing the same solution in just a few paragraphs, though it was proposed for all weapons instead of just the select few IWS suggests. Anyway, I support the idea. I think it's a start. The AR will probably need some dispersion to prevent it from being so accurate at +80m. Also, they need to make it so all weapon kick isn't reset by simply letting go of the button for a fraction of a second. After that, we'll see.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1150	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:41:00 - [53] - Quote I agree with the general idea here IWS, but its far too wordy. Not too long, I read it all easily, but the prose is too purple, try and go for a nice beige next time. Ypu speak alot of words, but forget to be clear as well as concise and as a result raise a ton of questions. You don't even explain your reasoning, just give your solution and sit on it :c As for your 'solution', it is ham-handed at best. Lowering the damage output of the ARs, the SMGs, and the ScRs might fix it, but it might not. I'm also wondering how you will lower the output of the standard ScR's shots, but not it's charge. That seems like abit more work than CCP has ever given a weapon re-balance. Furthermore, what do you mean by 'High Auto'? Does this not include the Tactical and Burst AR, or the Breach AR and SMG? Give us precise names here. If that is the case, why should the ScR be nerfed, but not the TAR? And if you aren't careful with the Breach-to-Assault power balance then they might lose their intended purposes, with Assault having higher Damage per Second and Breach having higher Damage per Clip. I'm sorry, but it just feels like too little and in too odd a set of places. I mean, most of us can agree that the AR is ahead of the curve, true, but the SMG? It's a short ranged weapon, correct? Is it too effective for a sidearm? And the ScR, a medium-long weapon? The AScR I understand, as it has to be weaker than the AR because it is the Tactical Rifle force-ably retrofitted into an AR, The person who gets the color thing gets a space cookie. ECM Equipment
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 373	Posted - 2013.11.12 01:55:00 - [54] - Quote Judging by the number of trolls your thread got hit with, I'd say you hit it on the money. Kill it with fire and move on. Idioms aside. Yes! I am glad to here that someone is taking this seriously. We have a problem retaining new players in the game and TTK is a big part of it. Most of us have the perspective to look back into beta and see how far we have come, but the guy who just downloaded DUST will log on -get blown to hell and quit. TTK is no minor thing, It is a major factor in new player retention -or as I like to call it- FUN. Please ignore those who are defending their KDR to make up for a small MEMBER-ship.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 423	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:05:00 - [55] - Quote Am I really the only one who liked the length of the posts?
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 971	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:12:00 - [56] - Quote I started reading then remember IWS and CPM are an absolute joke and CCP need to stop all communication with them. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
4447 Pure Innocence. EoN. 813	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:16:00 - [57] - Quote CCP, I love what you've done with TTK it means i can kill more people with one mag, not 2 mags to kill one.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10144	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:00:00 - [58] - Quote 4447 wrote: CCP, I love what you've done with TTK it means i can kill more people with one mag, not 2 mags to kill one. I managed 4 on one mag today. Aim better. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 878	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:02:00 - [59] - Quote Vegetation Monster wrote: Atiim wrote: See this is what happens when CCP does too good of a job fixing stuff they broke sniper rifle hit detection... Wait it was the hit detection? I thought that I was getting trollolololed by an invisible wall There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 878	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:03:00 - [60] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: I started reading then remember IWS and CPM are an absolute joke and CCP need to stop all communication with them. Please explain how. Don't just insult people out of spite and/or jealousy. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes



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