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KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 783	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:18:00 - [1] - Quote Here is the math behind the upcoming changes to swarms and vehicles. When forges are released I will do the same calculations for them. Before you comment, make sure you actually understand what you are talking about when it comes to resist and the new rep/regen mechanics. The shortened range will be nice and the reduced damage should have been implemented a long time ago given the fact that we only have modules up to meta level 3 and no hulls further than standard. Swarms are still going to r@pe as the proto version will deal 1782 to armor and 1056 to shields. With the new mechanics for armor reps and shield regen/boosters, armor will take 9.83 seconds to regen and shield will take 9.28 seconds. Note that the calculations for shield imply an unharmed 3 second regen delay. Armor reps are passive so they continue to rep, while shield regen is finicky, but strong. Basically, for every 1000 damage taken to armor or shield, tanks will take 5.15 seconds (armor) or 6.28 seconds + 3 seconds of regen delay (shields). Using this we can get a rough idea of the time it would take each to fully recover from a full volley of proto swarms. The time for armor recovery is 29.49 seconds, while the shield takes 21.85 seconds. AV grenades are nothing but a lie on CCP's part. The stories are true of the proto lai dai packed AV dealing somewhere between 3000-4000 damage per grenade. My typical tank with close to 12k ehp went pop after roughly 4 the other day. Based on CCP's lies they say they will be reduced to 1470-1015. Their figures are off by a factor of 1.5 at the very least. The old proto AV grenade dealt 2592 damage. According to what I just found they will yield 1788 damage. This equates to 2414 damage to armor and 1430 to shield. Armor would need 13.32 seconds to recover, while shield would need 21.86 seconds to recover. Again, assuming the regen delay is not interrupted. Damage mods on AV weapons are the next big concern. assuming the typical proto swarm has 3 complex damage mods plus a proficiency level or 2 puts us up to 1767 standard damage. Multiply by efficiency and we get 2385 damage vs armor and 1414 damage vs shield. The recover times would then be 13.16 seconds for armor or 11.42 seconds for shield. What about resist? When one resist is factored in along with efficiency we get 1431 damage for one swarm volley vs armor and 848.4 damage for one proto swarm volley vs shield. The recovery times are reduced to 7.9 sec for armor and 8.05 sec for shield. Full volley recovery times are 23.7 sec for armor and 18.14 sec for shield. With two resists factored in we get 933 damage for one swarm volley vs armor and 270.3 damage for one proto swarm volley vs shield. The recovery times are reduced to 5.15 sec for armor and 4.61 sec for shield. Full volley recovery times are 15.45 sec for armor and 7.83 sec for shield. They need to abolish the BS efficacy system they implemented in 1.3 where forges AND explosive weapons got a huge kick towards armor. Currently forges deal 110/90 to armor/shield and explosives deal 80/135 to shield/armor. Put it back to where it was in Chromosome where forges dealt 110/90 to shield/armor and explosives dealt 90/110 to shield/armor. So what does this all mean? Efficacy rating need to be reverted to Chromosome levels. Shield resists are strong, but short lived. Armor resists are weaker, but last longer. Shield regen is very finicky and can be interrupted by any AV weapon meaning it is not very good for CQC interaction. Armor reps are decent, but they are not sufficient enough for long term combat. If you have noticed the cooldown times on all modules, you can accurately predict that there will be a lot of time sitting in the redline or behind cover waiting for modules to cycle. Note: all calculations here are from in game experience and are backed by data. current efficiency for explosives is 135% for armor and 80% for shield. Current efficiency for non explosive weapons (forge) is 110% for armor and 90% for shield. 1st module efficiency is 100%, second is 87%, third is 57%. All data derived from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113407&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117279&find=unread
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 783	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:19:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 783	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:20:00 - [3] - Quote Reserved
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 455	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:22:00 - [4] - Quote Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Void Echo Blades of Dust 1983	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:23:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them far too easy Youtube Closed Beta Vet Top 10 Tankers // Master Rail Gunner
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 783	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:24:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Once again read the post Mr. I have no idea about resist. The numbers don't add up and real word evidence suggests else wise. Go away troll. Your ideas are not valid on anything related with vehicles. You have no idea about anything I just posted.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 783	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:25:00 - [7] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them far too easy Can we see that video.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1559	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:26:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Low quality bait
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 455	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:28:00 - [9] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Once again read the post Mr. I have no idea about resist. The numbers don't add up and real word evidence suggests else wise. Go away troll. Your ideas are not valid on anything related with vehicles. You have no idea about anything I just posted. Once again, I already knew about hardners, I just didn't use them (or nitrous And if your using that logic, the why not HTFU about AV as you sure as heck don't use them or have any idea of what your talking about when it comes to AV And if you look at the marketplace stats, they do around 1720 damage. Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 455	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:29:00 - [10] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them far too easy Can we see that video. Yes please Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 455	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:34:00 - [11] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them far too easy Yeah, if you can get close enough to the tank (assuming you are not a scout) And why so many empty lines man? Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 783	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:36:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Once again read the post Mr. I have no idea about resist. The numbers don't add up and real word evidence suggests else wise. Go away troll. Your ideas are not valid on anything related with vehicles. You have no idea about anything I just posted. Once again, I already knew about hardners, I just didn't use them (or nitrous And if your using that logic, the why not HTFU about AV as you sure as heck don't use them or have any idea of what your talking about when it comes to AV And if you look at the marketplace stats, they do around 1720 damage. Right from my post 1720 dmg 1.35 armor efficiency1.3 weak spot glitch=3018.6 dmg. The weak spot seams to be all over the tank, which then makes all of CCP's AV grenade numbers off by a factor between 1.5 or 2. Prove my math wrong please.
Void Echo Blades of Dust 1983	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:36:00 - [13] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them far too easy Can we see that video. being uploaded now... il link it when its done Youtube Closed Beta Vet Top 10 Tankers // Master Rail Gunner
Void Echo Blades of Dust 1983	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:38:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Once again read the post Mr. I have no idea about resist. The numbers don't add up and real word evidence suggests else wise. Go away troll. Your ideas are not valid on anything related with vehicles. You have no idea about anything I just posted. Once again, I already knew about hardners, I just didn't use them (or nitrous And if your using that logic, the why not HTFU about AV as you sure as heck don't use them or have any idea of what your talking about when it comes to AV And if you look at the marketplace stats, they do around 1720 damage. and if you use them in combat 6K HP on a tank is not that much when fighting AV especially a scrub like you Youtube Closed Beta Vet Top 10 Tankers // Master Rail Gunner
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 552	Posted - 2013.10.29 18:47:00 - [15] - Quote is that 4k dmg rating for lai dai's a rear end critical hit? must be straight to the hull baby
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 866	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:08:00 - [16] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them far too easy Can we see that video. Yea, how was it? Please don't
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 786	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:29:00 - [17] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: is that 4k dmg rating for lai dai's a rear end critical hit? must be straight to the hull baby Based on a straight armor calculation the lai dai does 3018.5 dmg. I have witnessed them do even more but that is what the calculations show. CCP doesn't even know their own math.
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 501	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:34:00 - [18] - Quote Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 456	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:37:00 - [19] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 786	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:37:00 - [20] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times.

chase rowland The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 53	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:40:00 - [21] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Here is the math behind the upcoming changes to swarms and vehicles. When forges are released I will do the same calculations for them. Before you comment, make sure you actually understand what you are talking about when it comes to resist and the new rep/regen mechanics. The shortened range will be nice and the reduced damage should have been implemented a long time ago given the fact that we only have modules up to meta level 3 and no hulls further than standard. Swarms are still going to r@pe as the proto version will deal 1782 to armor and 1056 to shields. With the new mechanics for armor reps and shield regen/boosters, armor will take 9.83 seconds to regen and shield will take 9.28 seconds. Note that the calculations for shield imply an unharmed 3 second regen delay. Armor reps are passive so they continue to rep, while shield regen is finicky, but strong. Basically, for every 1000 damage taken to armor or shield, tanks will take 5.15 seconds (armor) or 6.28 seconds + 3 seconds of regen delay (shields). Using this we can get a rough idea of the time it would take each to fully recover from a full volley of proto swarms. The time for armor recovery is 29.49 seconds, while the shield takes 21.85 seconds. AV grenades are nothing but a lie on CCP's part. The stories are true of the proto lai dai packed AV dealing somewhere between 3000-4000 damage per grenade. My typical tank with close to 12k ehp went pop after roughly 4 the other day. Based on CCP's lies they say they will be reduced to 1470-1015. Their figures are off by a factor of 1.5 at the very least. The old proto AV grenade dealt 2592 damage. According to what I just found they will yield 1788 damage. This equates to 2414 damage to armor and 1430 to shield. Armor would need 13.32 seconds to recover, while shield would need 21.86 seconds to recover. Again, assuming the regen delay is not interrupted. Damage mods on AV weapons are the next big concern. assuming the typical proto swarm has 3 complex damage mods plus a proficiency level or 2 puts us up to 1767 standard damage. Multiply by efficiency and we get 2385 damage vs armor and 1414 damage vs shield. The recover times would then be 13.16 seconds for armor or 11.42 seconds for shield. What about resist? When one resist is factored in along with efficiency we get 1431 damage for one swarm volley vs armor and 848.4 damage for one proto swarm volley vs shield. The recovery times are reduced to 7.9 sec for armor and 8.05 sec for shield. Full volley recovery times are 23.7 sec for armor and 18.14 sec for shield. With two resists factored in we get 933 damage for one swarm volley vs armor and 270.3 damage for one proto swarm volley vs shield. The recovery times are reduced to 5.15 sec for armor and 4.61 sec for shield. Full volley recovery times are 15.45 sec for armor and 7.83 sec for shield. They need to abolish the BS efficacy system they implemented in 1.3 where forges AND explosive weapons got a huge kick towards armor. Currently forges deal 110/90 to armor/shield and explosives deal 80/135 to shield/armor. Put it back to where it was in Chromosome where forges dealt 110/90 to shield/armor and explosives dealt 90/110 to shield/armor. So what does this all mean? Efficacy rating need to be reverted to Chromosome levels. Shield resists are strong, but short lived. Armor resists are weaker, but last longer. Shield regen is very finicky and can be interrupted by any AV weapon meaning it is not very good for CQC interaction. Armor reps are decent, but they are not sufficient enough for long term combat. If you have noticed the cooldown times on all modules, you can accurately predict that there will be a lot of time sitting in the redline or behind cover waiting for modules to cycle. Note: all calculations here are from in game experience and are backed by data. current efficiency for explosives is 135% for armor and 80% for shield. Current efficiency for non explosive weapons (forge) is 110% for armor and 90% for shield. 1st module efficiency is 100%, second is 87%, third is 57%. All data derived from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113407&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117279&find=unread i just did the math and your right.... good job
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3742	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:42:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears It was arrogance like yours, and all those who think swarming requires skill, all of those who could freely spam their AV grenades and think they were bad asses for doing jack all, it was all of you who made this AV nerf possible. Thank you for having vastly over inflated opinions of yourselves. ALL HAIL THE REIGN OF THE VEHICLES! "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Eltra Ardell Goonfeet Top Men. 183	Posted - 2013.10.29 19:48:00 - [23] - Quote If you're going to try and do an infodump, you should present your math and assumptions clearly and step by step, along with sources in the case of hidden or obscure game mechanics/glitches/:ccp: idiocy. You should present your information in a non-condescending manner and let the numbers speak for yourself. You shouldn't insist on anecdotal evidence being important, you should use proper spelling and grammar, and most importantly: You shouldn't be posting it exclusively on General Discussions.
Gloomy Cobra Hostile Acquisition Inc 54	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:00:00 - [24] - Quote i never really understood why ccp made the forge guns really strong agianst armor...Its based on electric energy, which should do more damage on shileds than armor yet that not true..... Oh well. Btw really good post, i enjoyed reading it :) The so called negative feedback is often love in disguise. Take full advantage!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7331	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:01:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears If changes happened thanks to tears this game would be ATIIM 514 by now. YouTube / Twitch Feed me ISK
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4427	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:05:00 - [26] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: AV grenades are nothing but a lie on CCP's part. The stories are true of the proto lai dai packed AV dealing somewhere between 3000-4000 damage per grenade. My typical tank with close to 12k ehp went pop after roughly 4 the other day. Based on CCP's lies they say they will be reduced to 1470-1015. Their figures are off by a factor of 1.5 at the very least. The old proto AV grenade dealt 2592 damage. According to what I just found they will yield 1788 damage. This equates to 2414 damage to armor and 1430 to shield. You are wrong. Either you are calculating resistances incorrectly or you are simply mistaken. Empirical evidence to the contrary. Demonstrating a packed AV grenade vs vehicle armour. Base packed AV grenade damage - 1312.50 HP. 6488 armour HP -> 4977 armour HP. Total damage 1511. This is in line with the explosive damage modifier being 120% - Here the modifier is approximately the same. I will happily test again if you feel this was unfair. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 795	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:23:00 - [27] - Quote Eltra Ardell wrote: If you're going to try and do an infodump, you should present your math and assumptions clearly and step by step, along with sources in the case of hidden or obscure game mechanics/glitches/:ccp: idiocy. You should present your information in a non-condescending manner and let the numbers speak for themselves. You shouldn't insist on anecdotal evidence being important, you should use proper spelling and grammar, and most importantly: You shouldn't be posting it exclusively on General Discussions. Thanks for the tips but charts are not my thing and it doesn't require charts to prove how stupid CCP is when it comes to, well, anything
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 795	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:26:00 - [28] - Quote Gloomy Cobra wrote: i never really understood why ccp made the forge guns really strong agianst armor...Its based on electric energy, which should do more damage on shileds than armor yet that not true..... Oh well. Btw really good post, i enjoyed reading it :) Exactly my point. In chrome, forge was for shield and swarms were for armor. Now both have an efficiency rating towards armor. WTF CCP please revert the efficiencies.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2142	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:27:00 - [29] - Quote Just one thing, my swarms do 120% damage vs armor not 135%. Finally.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 795	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:28:00 - [30] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: AV grenades are nothing but a lie on CCP's part. The stories are true of the proto lai dai packed AV dealing somewhere between 3000-4000 damage per grenade. My typical tank with close to 12k ehp went pop after roughly 4 the other day. Based on CCP's lies they say they will be reduced to 1470-1015. Their figures are off by a factor of 1.5 at the very least. The old proto AV grenade dealt 2592 damage. According to what I just found they will yield 1788 damage. This equates to 2414 damage to armor and 1430 to shield. You are wrong. Either you are calculating resistances incorrectly or you are simply mistaken. Empirical evidence to the contrary. Demonstrating a packed AV grenade vs vehicle armour. Base packed AV grenade damage - 1312.50 HP. 6488 armour HP -> 4977 armour HP. Total damage 1511. This is in line with the explosive damage modifier being 120% - Here the modifier is approximately the same. I will happily test again if you feel this was unfair. Something is broken then because I have regularly watch squadmates take out soma's with one AV grenade. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a glitch in the coding or something. My calculations match in game results. Your example is an isolated situation that is very close to what a packed AV grenade does on paper.

KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 797	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:31:00 - [31] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Just one thing, my swarms do 120% damage vs armor not 135%. Just tested it too. That number is wrong based on the numbers I have witnessed. The efficiency must be 135% w/o damage mods. Don't beleive it just because CCP says it. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc...
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:33:00 - [32] - Quote Swarms are going to **** with a 175 meter lock-on and damage nerf? Outside of dropships and LAVs who will lol at them now, swarms will require you to either be in CQC with cover to use effectively, or out in the open without cover(lol). At either case, you might as well be using something else. Like REs or Assault Forge Guns, which everyone with a brain will be using. Swarms are useless now. I'd sooner use a Freedom MD prof 5 with 3 damage mods over it. At least I can kill Infantry with it.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2142	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:34:00 - [33] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Just one thing, my swarms do 120% damage vs armor not 135%. Just tested it too. That number is wrong based on the numbers I have witnessed. The efficiency must be 135% w/o damage mods. Don't beleive it just because CCP says it. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... No I know it's right because I just went and saw the efficiency vs armor in game and my main weapon is the swarms (Been using them since I started playing dust). If you want I can do further tests to prove you wrong. Finally.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 797	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:37:00 - [34] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Just one thing, my swarms do 120% damage vs armor not 135%. Just tested it too. That number is wrong based on the numbers I have witnessed. The efficiency must be 135% w/o damage mods. Don't beleive it just because CCP says it. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... No I know it's right because I just went and saw the efficiency vs armor (120% vs armor and 80% vs shields) in game and my main weapon is the swarms (Been using them since I started playing dust). If you want I can do further tests to prove you wrong. What part of don't believe everything they display/write/say they have altered so many things that there is bound to be a coding glitch or something out there. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... these are all blantant lies or construed data.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4427	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:38:00 - [35] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: AV grenades are nothing but a lie on CCP's part. The stories are true of the proto lai dai packed AV dealing somewhere between 3000-4000 damage per grenade. My typical tank with close to 12k ehp went pop after roughly 4 the other day. Based on CCP's lies they say they will be reduced to 1470-1015. Their figures are off by a factor of 1.5 at the very least. The old proto AV grenade dealt 2592 damage. According to what I just found they will yield 1788 damage. This equates to 2414 damage to armor and 1430 to shield. You are wrong. Either you are calculating resistances incorrectly or you are simply mistaken. Empirical evidence to the contrary. Demonstrating a packed AV grenade vs vehicle armour. Base packed AV grenade damage - 1312.50 HP. 6488 armour HP -> 4977 armour HP. Total damage 1511. This is in line with the explosive damage modifier being 120% - Here the modifier is approximately the same. I will happily test again if you feel this was unfair. Something is broken then because I have regularly watch squadmates take out soma's with one AV grenade. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a glitch in the coding or something. My calculations match in game results. Your example is an isolated situation that is very close to what a packed AV grenade does on paper. Please suggest a situation in which an AV grenade will do more than the damage it should do. Also, I would greatly appreciate something more than anecdotal evidence. I will quite happily test this for you. If you can provide a specific situation in which an AV grenade will do more damage than it should I will gladly test it and record. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 797	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:38:00 - [36] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Swarms are going to **** with a 175 meter lock-on and damage nerf? Outside of dropships and LAVs who will lol at them now, swarms will require you to either be in CQC with cover to use effectively, or out in the open without cover(lol). At either case, you might as well be using something else. Like REs or Assault Forge Guns, which everyone with a brain will be using. Swarms are useless now. I'd sooner use a Freedom MD prof 5 with 3 damage mods over it. At least I can kill Infantry with it. How can you say no to dealing 2385 damage to an armor tank. You get all three shots off and terrain damage finishes it off as it runs away.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2142	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:39:00 - [37] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Just one thing, my swarms do 120% damage vs armor not 135%. Just tested it too. That number is wrong based on the numbers I have witnessed. The efficiency must be 135% w/o damage mods. Don't beleive it just because CCP says it. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... No I know it's right because I just went and saw the efficiency vs armor (120% vs armor and 80% vs shields) in game and my main weapon is the swarms (Been using them since I started playing dust). If you want I can do further tests to prove you wrong. What part of don't believe everything they display/write/say they have altered so many things that there is bound to be a coding glitch or something out there. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... these are all blantant lies or construed data. I think CCP is more of a credible source then you ever will. Show me proof or else I will never believe you. Actually fk it I'll do another test to prove you wrong with proof this time. Also I can believe rails being the top seller thanks to redline tanks. Finally.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 797	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:42:00 - [38] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: AV grenades are nothing but a lie on CCP's part. The stories are true of the proto lai dai packed AV dealing somewhere between 3000-4000 damage per grenade. My typical tank with close to 12k ehp went pop after roughly 4 the other day. Based on CCP's lies they say they will be reduced to 1470-1015. Their figures are off by a factor of 1.5 at the very least. The old proto AV grenade dealt 2592 damage. According to what I just found they will yield 1788 damage. This equates to 2414 damage to armor and 1430 to shield. You are wrong. Either you are calculating resistances incorrectly or you are simply mistaken. Empirical evidence to the contrary. Demonstrating a packed AV grenade vs vehicle armour. Base packed AV grenade damage - 1312.50 HP. 6488 armour HP -> 4977 armour HP. Total damage 1511. This is in line with the explosive damage modifier being 120% - Here the modifier is approximately the same. I will happily test again if you feel this was unfair. Something is broken then because I have regularly watch squadmates take out soma's with one AV grenade. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a glitch in the coding or something. My calculations match in game results. Your example is an isolated situation that is very close to what a packed AV grenade does on paper. Please suggest a situation in which an AV grenade will do more than the damage it should do. Also, I would greatly appreciate something more than anecdotal evidence. I will quite happily test this for you. If you can provide a specific situation in which an AV grenade will do more damage than it should I will gladly test it and record. That's the thing I am I talking about. AV grenades are well known for going off the charts with their damage. It is like they ignore their limitations and automatically see the whole tank as the weak spot. IDK, neither does CCP as they have never explained this to anyone. Throw a lai dai between the rear armor plates of any tank.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 797	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:44:00 - [39] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Just one thing, my swarms do 120% damage vs armor not 135%. Just tested it too. That number is wrong based on the numbers I have witnessed. The efficiency must be 135% w/o damage mods. Don't beleive it just because CCP says it. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... No I know it's right because I just went and saw the efficiency vs armor (120% vs armor and 80% vs shields) in game and my main weapon is the swarms (Been using them since I started playing dust). If you want I can do further tests to prove you wrong. What part of don't believe everything they display/write/say they have altered so many things that there is bound to be a coding glitch or something out there. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... these are all blantant lies or construed data. I think CCP is more of a credible source then you ever will. Show me proof or else I will never believe you. Actually fk it I'll do another test to prove you wrong with proof this time. Also I can believe rails being the top seller thanks to redline tanks. small rails? are you serious? try and kill someone with one of these CCP darling creations
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:44:00 - [40] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Swarms are going to **** with a 175 meter lock-on and damage nerf? Outside of dropships and LAVs who will lol at them now, swarms will require you to either be in CQC with cover to use effectively, or out in the open without cover(lol). At either case, you might as well be using something else. Like REs or Assault Forge Guns, which everyone with a brain will be using. Swarms are useless now. I'd sooner use a Freedom MD prof 5 with 3 damage mods over it. At least I can kill Infantry with it. How can you say no to dealing 2385 damage to an armor tank. You get all three shots off and terrain damage finishes it off as it runs away. No because that optimal will rarely happen at all. In the open, you'll die long before you get the 3 shots in, in CQC with cover you won't shoot those shots nearly as fast, so tank has a good chance of just rolling out. Plus a good tanker almost always have Infantry support near, you don't want to be in CQC with Swarms at all. If it's a shield tanker, congrats, your swarms are laughed at.

KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 798	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:49:00 - [41] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Swarms are going to **** with a 175 meter lock-on and damage nerf? Outside of dropships and LAVs who will lol at them now, swarms will require you to either be in CQC with cover to use effectively, or out in the open without cover(lol). At either case, you might as well be using something else. Like REs or Assault Forge Guns, which everyone with a brain will be using. Swarms are useless now. I'd sooner use a Freedom MD prof 5 with 3 damage mods over it. At least I can kill Infantry with it. How can you say no to dealing 2385 damage to an armor tank. You get all three shots off and terrain damage finishes it off as it runs away. No because that optimal will rarely happen at all. In the open, you'll die long before you get the 3 shots in, in CQC with cover you won't shoot those shots nearly as fast, so tank has a good chance of just rolling out. Plus a good tanker almost always have Infantry support near, you don't want to be in CQC with Swarms at all. If it's a shield tanker, congrats, your swarms are laughed at. Why don't you ask someone like your corpmate mary sedillo how devastating swarms can be when modules are on cooldown, if you don't believe me.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4427	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:56:00 - [42] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Please suggest a situation in which an AV grenade will do more than the damage it should do. Also, I would greatly appreciate something more than anecdotal evidence. I will quite happily test this for you. If you can provide a specific situation in which an AV grenade will do more damage than it should I will gladly test it and record. That's the thing I am I talking about. AV grenades are well known for going off the charts with their damage. It is like they ignore their limitations and automatically see the whole tank as the weak spot. IDK, neither does CCP as they have never explained this to anyone. Throw a lai dai between the rear armor plates of any tank. So, throw a Lai Dai at the weakspot of a tank? Alright. It will be done. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2142	Posted - 2013.10.29 20:57:00 - [43] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: That number is wrong based on the numbers I have witnessed. The efficiency must be 135% w/o damage mods. Don't beleive it just because CCP says it. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... No I know it's right because I just went and saw the efficiency vs armor (120% vs armor and 80% vs shields) in game and my main weapon is the swarms (Been using them since I started playing dust). If you want I can do further tests to prove you wrong. What part of don't believe everything they display/write/say they have altered so many things that there is bound to be a coding glitch or something out there. Ex. AV grenades, player counts, small rails being top sellers, etc... these are all blantant lies or construed data. I think CCP is more of a credible source then you ever will. Show me proof or else I will never believe you. Actually fk it I'll do another test to prove you wrong with proof this time. Also I can believe rails being the top seller thanks to redline tanks. small rails? are you serious? try and kill someone with one of these CCP darling creations Small rails no although that maybe because that most AUR tanks come with two small rails. Finally.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 21:54:00 - [44] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 330*4=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 798	Posted - 2013.10.29 21:58:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 3304=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks 13201.35*2=3564. Two volleys and the tank goes down.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:09:00 - [46] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears It was arrogance like yours, and all those who think swarming requires skill, all of those who could freely spam their AV grenades and think they were bad asses for doing jack all, it was all of you who made this AV nerf possible. Thank you for having vastly over inflated opinions of yourselves. ALL HAIL THE REIGN OF THE VEHICLES! Ok fine go 30m away from a tank, and try soloing it while infantry is firing at you at the same time, and before you say "Oh you shouldn't be taking fire from infantry" BS note that I don't AV from the redline (swarms don't have the intelligence). And yeah considering that that almost always happens, swarms do require skill, at least you can kill people with a FG, or PLC but I can't lock on to a scout with a SL and watch him run like crazy to cover. And only tankers and LAV who are stupid enough to drive into crowds of infantry have to deal with AV grenades. You say this as if tanking requires skill like a chess game, when I've managed to do perfectly fine with my cheap so-so 400k tank. All you have to do is shoot and then go into cover when you overheat and/or your modules die. Thank you for having vastly over-inflated opinions of yourselves, next time you wanna moan about something, do what I did and skill into it. You are literally no better than logi hatters who assume that it is easy mode while never specing into them Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:11:00 - [47] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 3304=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks 13201.352=3564. Two volleys and the tank goes down. Shields, and yeah with bad lock times, that damage will be repped quickly if the tanker knows what they are doing, and that (1.35) assumes that everyone runs an armored tank. If you get soloed by MLT AV, then there is no balancing that. After all, many have said "Never balance around idiots". Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 165	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:12:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 330*4=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks I took out a 1.5 mil tank with them the other day, I spawned in the wrong fit in an ambush near a tank used a corner and strafing to my advantage and hit him three times and blew him up 0 proficiency 0 damage mods though I did hit the weak spot (which I'm not mentioning because you AV scrubs don't know what it is clearly and I shall not give you any secrets). Yes he was not at full armor. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:14:00 - [49] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 330*4=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks I took out a 1.5 mil tank with them the other day, I spawned in the wrong fit in an ambush near a tank used a corner and strafing to my advantage and hit him three times and blew him up 0 proficiency 0 damage mods. Yes he was not at full armor. If he wasn't at full armor, then you have no valid argument. Edit: if the tanker (or anyone) gave you time to reload, then he deserved death. Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 165	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:16:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 330*4=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks I took out a 1.5 mil tank with them the other day, I spawned in the wrong fit in an ambush near a tank used a corner and strafing to my advantage and hit him three times and blew him up 0 proficiency 0 damage mods. Yes he was not at full armor. If he wasn't at full armor, then you have no valid argument. Edit: if the tanker (or anyone) gave you time to reload, then he deserved death. He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:18:00 - [51] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Swarms are going to **** with a 175 meter lock-on and damage nerf? Outside of dropships and LAVs who will lol at them now, swarms will require you to either be in CQC with cover to use effectively, or out in the open without cover(lol). At either case, you might as well be using something else. Like REs or Assault Forge Guns, which everyone with a brain will be using. Swarms are useless now. I'd sooner use a Freedom MD prof 5 with 3 damage mods over it. At least I can kill Infantry with it. How can you say no to dealing 2385 damage to an armor tank. You get all three shots off and terrain damage finishes it off as it runs away. No because that optimal will rarely happen at all. In the open, you'll die long before you get the 3 shots in, in CQC with cover you won't shoot those shots nearly as fast, so tank has a good chance of just rolling out. Plus a good tanker almost always have Infantry support near, you don't want to be in CQC with Swarms at all. If it's a shield tanker, congrats, your swarms are laughed at. Why don't you ask someone like your corpmate mary sedillo how devastating swarms can be when modules are on cooldown, if you don't believe me. Well if your modules are down, then AV should take you out with ease And yeah that is optimal, so your math is shotty. And yeah if swarms are such a problem, then why not add shields Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:20:00 - [52] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 165	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:23:00 - [53] - Quote Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Swarms are going to **** with a 175 meter lock-on and damage nerf? Outside of dropships and LAVs who will lol at them now, swarms will require you to either be in CQC with cover to use effectively, or out in the open without cover(lol). At either case, you might as well be using something else. Like REs or Assault Forge Guns, which everyone with a brain will be using. Swarms are useless now. I'd sooner use a Freedom MD prof 5 with 3 damage mods over it. At least I can kill Infantry with it. How can you say no to dealing 2385 damage to an armor tank. You get all three shots off and terrain damage finishes it off as it runs away. No because that optimal will rarely happen at all. In the open, you'll die long before you get the 3 shots in, in CQC with cover you won't shoot those shots nearly as fast, so tank has a good chance of just rolling out. Plus a good tanker almost always have Infantry support near, you don't want to be in CQC with Swarms at all. If it's a shield tanker, congrats, your swarms are laughed at. Why don't you ask someone like your corpmate mary sedillo how devastating swarms can be when modules are on cooldown, if you don't believe me. Well if your modules are down, then AV should take you out with ease And yeah that is optimal, so your math is shotty. And yeah if swarms are such a problem, then why not add shields Lolz shields on a Maddy this kid knows nothing about tanking. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 165	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:25:00 - [54] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about He was running when I first hit him and he had a lot of road in front of him so he came at me to kill me because he was screwed if he did not Read the post again I edited it. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 461	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:25:00 - [55] - Quote Notice how I put the pirate sign after the sentence, that way anyone with an IQ >30 will know that I'm joking Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4428	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:27:00 - [56] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 3304=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks 13201.352=3564. Two volleys and the tank goes down. Except even a Soma has more HP than that. After the rebalance, it has 4000 armour HP unfitted, in addition to the 1200 shields which will soak up lots of explosive damage. 13200.80 = 1056 - so the shields can soak up an entire volley on their own, with 144 shield HP remaining. 144/0.80 = 180, and so it will soak up 180 damage out of the next volley which starts to go into armour, leaving 1140 raw damage remaining. Now, I am quite certain that the excessively high explosive damage doesn't exist and the actual modifier is 20% more damage, but I will do these numbers assuming the +35% modifier. 11401.35 = 1539 armour damage, leaving 2461 armour HP remaining on the Soma. The next volley does full damage as there are no shields to soak up the damage. 13201.35 = 1782 armour damage, leaving 679 armour HP remaining on the Soma. The next volley will obviously kill it. Thus, it takes four vollies of a current militia swarm launcher to kill a completely unfitted Soma. However, the swarm launcher damage has been reduced significantly, from 330 to 220 per rocket. Again assuming that the explosive modifier is higher than it actually is, let's calculate how long it will take for an MLT swarm launcher to kill a Soma sitting still. 2204 = 880 8800.80 = 704, 1200-704 = 496 shield HP remaining. 496/0.80 = 620, taking 620 raw damage out of the next volley, leaving 260 raw damage acting on the armour. 2601.35 = 351 armour damage, leaving 3649 armour HP remaining. The next volley has no shields to soak up any damage. 8801.35% = 1188 armour damage, leaving 2461 armour HP remaining. Naturally, the next vollies will still do the same damage. The next volley will do another 1188 damage, leaving 1273 armour HP remaining. The volley after that will do another 1188 damage, leaving just 85 armour HP remaining. The volley after that is the final volley and will kill the tank. That's a total of 5 vollies from a militia swarm launcher to take out a militia tank, assuming the excessively high explosive modifier which I do not believe actually exists. Notably, you also have to reload twice during that process, increasing the time to kill the tank significantly. That's not two vollies to kill a tank. It's likely to be even more than 5 given that the explosive damage modifier isn't 135% and also that the shields of the tank will recharge slightly whilst the swarm launcher is reloading. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 462	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:31:00 - [57] - Quote Aww man, you beat me to the math! Oh well, at least you proved my point Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3528	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:32:00 - [58] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That's not two vollies to kill a tank. It's likely to be even more than 5 given that the explosive damage modifier isn't 135% and also that the shields of the tank will recharge slightly whilst the swarm launcher is reloading. Arkena, you know better than to post up numbers in the forums. Logic and deductive reasoning is like witchcraft in these parts. ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 165	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:33:00 - [59] - Quote Atiim wrote: Notice how I put the pirate sign after the sentence, that way anyone with an IQ >30 will know that I'm joking You've proven yourself to be so stupid I couldn't tell whether or not you were joking. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4430	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:34:00 - [60] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That's not two vollies to kill a tank. It's likely to be even more than 5 given that the explosive damage modifier isn't 135% and also that the shields of the tank will recharge slightly whilst the swarm launcher is reloading. Arkena, you know better than to post up numbers in the forums. Logic and deductive reasoning is like witchcraft in these parts. 1 million isk says nobody in this thread will capitulate gracefully. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution

Gelan Corbaine Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 213	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:51:00 - [61] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: That's not two vollies to kill a tank. It's likely to be even more than 5 given that the explosive damage modifier isn't 135% and also that the shields of the tank will recharge slightly whilst the swarm launcher is reloading. Arkena, you know better than to post up numbers in the forums. Logic and deductive reasoning is like witchcraft in these parts. 1 million isk says nobody in this thread will capitulate gracefully. One shouldn't take sucker bets...
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 462	Posted - 2013.10.29 22:58:00 - [62] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Notice how I put the pirate sign after the sentence, that way anyone with an IQ >30 will know that I'm joking You've proven yourself to be so stupid I couldn't tell whether or not you were joking. No, you've proven that you have an IQ <30 Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 876	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:02:00 - [63] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Notice how I put the pirate sign after the sentence, that way anyone with an IQ >30 will know that I'm joking You've proven yourself to be so stupid I couldn't tell whether or not you were joking. No, you've proven that you have an IQ <30 ahem this is part of your contract (repeat after me): "everything i've ever said on the subject of game balance, specifically balancing vehicles and AV is wrong, its so wrong that i feel sick that i even thought of them, and the fact that i spoke them makes me want to leap in front of a moving lav. i hereby retract all of my comments and enter an agreement with the dust community that it will not troll you overly and whack you with the logic bat too often on the basis that i will now refrain from posting in any vehicle or AV thread, this agreement is binding and can and will be edited in the future if the community deems it necessary." thanks ghbgh <---- quite sure I made a mistake there Please don't
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4437	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:11:00 - [64] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Notice how I put the pirate sign after the sentence, that way anyone with an IQ >30 will know that I'm joking You've proven yourself to be so stupid I couldn't tell whether or not you were joking. No, you've proven that you have an IQ <30 ahem this is part of your contract (repeat after me): "everything i've ever said on the subject of game balance, specifically balancing vehicles and AV is wrong, its so wrong that i feel sick that i even thought of them, and the fact that i spoke them makes me want to leap in front of a moving lav. i hereby retract all of my comments and enter an agreement with the dust community that it will not troll you overly and whack you with the logic bat too often on the basis that i will now refrain from posting in any vehicle or AV thread, this agreement is binding and can and will be edited in the future if the community deems it necessary." thanks ghbgh <---- quite sure I made a mistake there gbghg, I think. Nobody gets his name right. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 165	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:13:00 - [65] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Notice how I put the pirate sign after the sentence, that way anyone with an IQ >30 will know that I'm joking You've proven yourself to be so stupid I couldn't tell whether or not you were joking. No, you've proven that you have an IQ <30 ahem this is part of your contract (repeat after me): "everything i've ever said on the subject of game balance, specifically balancing vehicles and AV is wrong, its so wrong that i feel sick that i even thought of them, and the fact that i spoke them makes me want to leap in front of a moving lav. i hereby retract all of my comments and enter an agreement with the dust community that it will not troll you overly and whack you with the logic bat too often on the basis that i will now refrain from posting in any vehicle or AV thread, this agreement is binding and can and will be edited in the future if the community deems it necessary." thanks ghbgh <---- quite sure I made a mistake there Reinforcements have arrived. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4439	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:23:00 - [66] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Reinforcements have arrived. None of them have dared take on my post yet. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 799	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:29:00 - [67] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about The fact that the tank had 4k armor and still died shows how AV is clearly overplaying it's role. The efficiency rating I am using confirm this. Under normal efficiency ratings you would not be able to do this.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4439	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:49:00 - [68] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about The fact that the tank had 4k armor and still died shows how AV is clearly overplaying it's role. The efficiency rating I am using confirm this. Under normal efficiency ratings you would not be able to do this. What is your stance on the survivability of HAVs after the changes? Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 799	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:49:00 - [69] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? Just get a tank out in the open or when its modules are down. Miltia AV owns everything currently when modules are down and will in the future when modules have extended cooldown times. Ok now your just pulling crap outta @$$ 3304=1320HP And MLT swarms have terrible DPS because of the lock time nerf, and the fact that they only have two in a clip means that if you are good, they will do a maximum of 2640HP of damage, but that wouldn't scratch a maddy's armor and Gunnlogi? Forget it. MLT owns nothing, not even MLT tanks 13201.352=3564. Two volleys and the tank goes down. Except even a Soma has more HP than that. After the rebalance, it has 4000 armour HP unfitted, in addition to the 1200 shields which will soak up lots of explosive damage. 13200.80 = 1056 - so the shields can soak up an entire volley on their own, with 144 shield HP remaining. 144/0.80 = 180, and so it will soak up 180 damage out of the next volley which starts to go into armour, leaving 1140 raw damage remaining. Now, I am quite certain that the excessively high explosive damage doesn't exist and the actual modifier is 20% more damage, but I will do these numbers assuming the +35% modifier. 11401.35 = 1539 armour damage, leaving 2461 armour HP remaining on the Soma. The next volley does full damage as there are no shields to soak up the damage. 13201.35 = 1782 armour damage, leaving 679 armour HP remaining on the Soma. The next volley will obviously kill it. Thus, it takes four vollies of a current militia swarm launcher to kill a completely unfitted Soma. However, the swarm launcher damage has been reduced significantly, from 330 to 220 per rocket. Again assuming that the explosive modifier is higher than it actually is, let's calculate how long it will take for an MLT swarm launcher to kill a Soma sitting still. 2204 = 880 8800.80 = 704, 1200-704 = 496 shield HP remaining. 496/0.80 = 620, taking 620 raw damage out of the next volley, leaving 260 raw damage acting on the armour. 2601.35 = 351 armour damage, leaving 3649 armour HP remaining. The next volley has no shields to soak up any damage. 8801.35% = 1188 armour damage, leaving 2461 armour HP remaining. Naturally, the next vollies will still do the same damage. The next volley will do another 1188 damage, leaving 1273 armour HP remaining. The volley after that will do another 1188 damage, leaving just 85 armour HP remaining. The volley after that is the final volley and will kill the tank. That's a total of 5 vollies from a militia swarm launcher to take out a militia tank, assuming the excessively high explosive modifier which I do not believe actually exists. Notably, you also have to reload twice during that process, increasing the time to kill the tank significantly. That's not two vollies to kill a tank. It's likely to be even more than 5 given that the explosive damage modifier isn't 135% and also that the shields of the tank will recharge slightly whilst the swarm launcher is reloading. In 1.8 GJ CCP First off, terrain damage removes any and all shields from armor tanks. Simply driving at full speed over any ground that isn't paved will put you into your armor with ease. If you ran tanks you would realize this. This leaves pure armor with no buffer-and no ret@rd atiim i can't add shield because 1. I am an armor tank 2. the PG nerf leaves me no room to add any shields 3. shield regen is roughly 10 on an armor tank meaning it would take forever to regen to full. Tanks will be slower and in addition have no cover due to the style of the new sockets that CCP is moving towards. Why did you compare the miltia version? Why not the proto version which drops 2385 damage to armor. Proto swarms are seen in every single game and often in numbers. When modules go into cooldown you will have taken enough terrain damage to lose all you shields and what AV you can kill off might leave you with around 5/6 armor. This then means that the madrugar has around 3400 armor left. Two volleys and it's done. Simple as that. Even with reps, they are so slow that two volleys down it. I wish AV engaged me with full health in game, but thanks to the terrain i never have shields and I am always into my armor. As to why I didn't respond sooner, I was to busy playing this game with my corpmates. Do you even play akena? I have never seen you and a lot of what I said would make sense to you if you did. People who come on here and argue and don't even play (IWS, Nova Knife, etc) really should be on here.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 799	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:51:00 - [70] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about The fact that the tank had 4k armor and still died shows how AV is clearly overplaying it's role. The efficiency rating I am using confirm this. Under normal efficiency ratings you would not be able to do this. What is your stance on the survivability of HAVs after the changes? Shield tanks will be worthless if there are two or more people firing at them at once. Armor tanks are going to be like survivable for about one minute before having to retreat behind the redline. Ammo will be a huge concern given the designs of the new sockets they are moving towards, as is the ability of the tank to use cover to avoid AV fire.

Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 166	Posted - 2013.10.29 23:58:00 - [71] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about So Militia swarms do 1320 damage plus the 63% bonus I get from the weak spot and the armor bonus if I'm informed correctly minus the 49% resist I believe he had gives me a 12% bonus so about 1,478 damage multiplied by 3 is 4,434 damage so tell me why I couldn't have called the tank if it had 4k armor. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 801	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:02:00 - [72] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about So Militia swarms do 1320 damage plus the 63% bonus I get from the weak spot and the armor bonus if I'm informed correctly minus the 49% resist I believe he had gives me a 12% bonus so about 1,478 damage multiplied by 3 is 4,434 damage so tell me why I couldn't have called the tank if it had 4k armor. WHOA THERE BENNY BOY!!! That math went right over Atiim's head. Let him contact Arkena Wyrkomi and have her do the math for him and attempt to prove how a class that has been nerfed by 33% ONCE cant kill a role that has been nerfed now 4 or 5 times.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1065	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:13:00 - [73] - Quote Its ground hog day and once again the peasants are arguing above their pay grade.
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 167	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:15:00 - [74] - Quote I find it funny how people complain how they can't take out tanks yet you know their doing it wrong but they don't understand some guy who I doubt had any proficiency in FG whined about tanks being OP because he couldn't take a tank out who had obviously all his mods maxed while he was using a std suit so he was losing out on 5% damage, was using an advanced forge so he was losing out on base damage, and was clearly not hitting or aiming for the weak spot with his 2 proto swarm friends. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4439	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:15:00 - [75] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: In 1.8 GJ CCP First off, terrain damage removes any and all shields from armor tanks. Simply driving at full speed over any ground that isn't paved will put you into your armor with ease. If you ran tanks you would realize this. This leaves pure armor with no buffer-and no ret@rd atiim i can't add shield because 1. I am an armor tank 2. the PG nerf leaves me no room to add any shields 3. shield regen is roughly 10 on an armor tank meaning it would take forever to regen to full. Tanks will be slower and in addition have no cover due to the style of the new sockets that CCP is moving towards. Why did you compare the miltia version? Why not the proto version which drops 2385 damage to armor. Proto swarms are seen in every single game and often in numbers. When modules go into cooldown you will have taken enough terrain damage to lose all you shields and what AV you can kill off might leave you with around 5/6 armor. This then means that the madrugar has around 3400 armor left. Two volleys and it's done. Simple as that. Even with reps, they are so slow that two volleys down it. I wish AV engaged me with full health in game, but thanks to the terrain i never have shields and I am always into my armor. As to why I didn't respond sooner, I was to busy playing this game with my corpmates. Do you even play akena? I have never seen you and a lot of what I said would make sense to you if you did. People who come on here and argue and don't even play (IWS, Nova Knife, etc) really should be on here. I compared the militia swarms because I was questioning your assertion that two vollies from a militia swarm would kill a militia tank. If you manage to wreck 1200 shields, you are a bad driver. I do not tank as a main occupation, but I have never managed to deplete all of my shields by driving around. You're not looking at the tanks after the changes, are you? That would be where you are going wrong. A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks, even with the shields fully depleted from your apparently awful driving. 2385 damage is a mythical statistic unless you're looking at the current state of things, in which case you really should read up on the changes before trying to argue about balancing them. As I go through your post, I see more and more numbers from the current balance. Why bother arguing with them? They're being changed. The numbers are being provided. Look at them. The fact that you haven't seen me play doesn't mean I don't play, and it doesn't make the statistics I showed you any less valid. Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 167	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:18:00 - [76] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about So Militia swarms do 1320 damage plus the 63% bonus I get from the weak spot and the armor bonus if I'm informed correctly minus the 49% resist I believe he had gives me a 12% bonus so about 1,478 damage multiplied by 3 is 4,434 damage so tell me why I couldn't have called the tank if it had 4k armor. WHOA THERE BENNY BOY!!! That math went right over Atiim's head. Let him contact Arkena Wyrkomi and have her do the math for him and attempt to prove how a class that has been nerfed by 33% ONCE cant kill a role that has been nerfed now 4 or 5 times. LOL I put called instead of killed. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 167	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:24:00 - [77] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about So Militia swarms do 1320 damage plus the 63% bonus I get from the weak spot and the armor bonus if I'm informed correctly minus the 49% resist I believe he had gives me a 12% bonus so about 1,478 damage multiplied by 3 is 4,434 damage so tell me why I couldn't have called the tank if it had 4k armor. WHOA THERE BENNY BOY!!! That math went right over Atiim's head. Let him contact Arkena Wyrkomi and have her do the math for him and attempt to prove how a class that has been nerfed by 33% ONCE cant kill a role that has been nerfed now 4 or 5 times. What swarms don't understand is while we wait for a fix in tanks AV gets buffed so it's a double effect not only do we get nerfs they get buffs. Imagine if we got a 10% hp buff and swarm changes were deployed now that's the equivalent except much lighter for AV. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 802	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:28:00 - [78] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: In 1.8 GJ CCP First off, terrain damage removes any and all shields from armor tanks. Simply driving at full speed over any ground that isn't paved will put you into your armor with ease. If you ran tanks you would realize this. This leaves pure armor with no buffer-and no ret@rd atiim i can't add shield because 1. I am an armor tank 2. the PG nerf leaves me no room to add any shields 3. shield regen is roughly 10 on an armor tank meaning it would take forever to regen to full. Tanks will be slower and in addition have no cover due to the style of the new sockets that CCP is moving towards. Why did you compare the miltia version? Why not the proto version which drops 2385 damage to armor. Proto swarms are seen in every single game and often in numbers. When modules go into cooldown you will have taken enough terrain damage to lose all you shields and what AV you can kill off might leave you with around 5/6 armor. This then means that the madrugar has around 3400 armor left. Two volleys and it's done. Simple as that. Even with reps, they are so slow that two volleys down it. I wish AV engaged me with full health in game, but thanks to the terrain i never have shields and I am always into my armor. As to why I didn't respond sooner, I was to busy playing this game with my corpmates. Do you even play akena? I have never seen you and a lot of what I said would make sense to you if you did. People who come on here and argue and don't even play (IWS, Nova Knife, etc) really should be on here. I compared the militia swarms because I was questioning your assertion that two vollies from a militia swarm would kill a militia tank. If you manage to wreck 1200 shields, you are a bad driver. I do not tank as a main occupation, but I have never managed to deplete all of my shields by driving around. You're not looking at the tanks after the changes, are you? That would be where you are going wrong. A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks, even with the shields fully depleted from your apparently awful driving. 2385 damage is a mythical statistic unless you're looking at the current state of things, in which case you really should read up on the changes before trying to argue about balancing them. As I go through your post, I see more and more numbers from the current balance. Why bother arguing with them? They're being changed. The numbers are being provided. Look at them. The fact that you haven't seen me play doesn't mean I don't play, and it doesn't make the statistics I showed you any less valid. Driving around though hills as you avoid paved roads and wide open areas will cause you to love 1200 shield or more. I am not going to slow down just because the terrain is removing my shields. After all I am an armor tank. Once again, go drive a tank and you will witness this beautiful feature. 2385 is the amount of damage proto swarms deal to armor tanks post 1.7 or whenever they implement the rework, 2.0 I predict. If you want me to talk about balance now, then try 2 K damage with 47% resist and over 3500 damage without resist. You clearly don't understand how OP this stuff is. Doc DDD has dropped tanks in two hits before from full health. If you play or know anything about vehicles, then you know about Doc's swarms. Tanks in 1.8+ will struggle to recover from the same problems they face now. AV got nerfed by 1/3. Tanks got it much worse than that once again. Vehicles are not becoming more fun, only more painful. I play quite a bit. Dust only has a few thousand players left. I should see you if you claim to know so much and play.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 802	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:30:00 - [79] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about So Militia swarms do 1320 damage plus the 63% bonus I get from the weak spot and the armor bonus if I'm informed correctly minus the 49% resist I believe he had gives me a 12% bonus so about 1,478 damage multiplied by 3 is 4,434 damage so tell me why I couldn't have called the tank if it had 4k armor. WHOA THERE BENNY BOY!!! That math went right over Atiim's head. Let him contact Arkena Wyrkomi and have her do the math for him and attempt to prove how a class that has been nerfed by 33% ONCE cant kill a role that has been nerfed now 4 or 5 times. What swarms don't understand is while we wait for a fix in tanks AV gets buffed so it's a double effect not only do we get nerfs they get buffs. Imagine if we got a 10% hp buff and swarm changes were deployed now that's the equivalent except much lighter for AV. To bad hp is going down in 1.8 along with ehp AND the ability to maintain that ehp due to the large module cool down times.
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 167	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:31:00 - [80] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: In 1.8 GJ CCP First off, terrain damage removes any and all shields from armor tanks. Simply driving at full speed over any ground that isn't paved will put you into your armor with ease. If you ran tanks you would realize this. This leaves pure armor with no buffer-and no ret@rd atiim i can't add shield because 1. I am an armor tank 2. the PG nerf leaves me no room to add any shields 3. shield regen is roughly 10 on an armor tank meaning it would take forever to regen to full. Tanks will be slower and in addition have no cover due to the style of the new sockets that CCP is moving towards. Why did you compare the miltia version? Why not the proto version which drops 2385 damage to armor. Proto swarms are seen in every single game and often in numbers. When modules go into cooldown you will have taken enough terrain damage to lose all you shields and what AV you can kill off might leave you with around 5/6 armor. This then means that the madrugar has around 3400 armor left. Two volleys and it's done. Simple as that. Even with reps, they are so slow that two volleys down it. I wish AV engaged me with full health in game, but thanks to the terrain i never have shields and I am always into my armor. As to why I didn't respond sooner, I was to busy playing this game with my corpmates. Do you even play akena? I have never seen you and a lot of what I said would make sense to you if you did. People who come on here and argue and don't even play (IWS, Nova Knife, etc) really should be on here. I compared the militia swarms because I was questioning your assertion that two vollies from a militia swarm would kill a militia tank. If you manage to wreck 1200 shields, you are a bad driver. I do not tank as a main occupation, but I have never managed to deplete all of my shields by driving around. You're not looking at the tanks after the changes, are you? That would be where you are going wrong. A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks, even with the shields fully depleted from your apparently awful driving. 2385 damage is a mythical statistic unless you're looking at the current state of things, in which case you really should read up on the changes before trying to argue about balancing them. As I go through your post, I see more and more numbers from the current balance. Why bother arguing with them? They're being changed. The numbers are being provided. Look at them. The fact that you haven't seen me play doesn't mean I don't play, and it doesn't make the statistics I showed you any less valid. So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have

Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:36:00 - [81] - Quote Takahiros 'partner' will be here shortly to reply 10 times to each individual comment from anyone who isn't supporting the HAV campaign ... you wait n see lol ...
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:38:00 - [82] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: In 1.8 GJ CCP First off, terrain damage removes any and all shields from armor tanks. Simply driving at full speed over any ground that isn't paved will put you into your armor with ease. If you ran tanks you would realize this. This leaves pure armor with no buffer-and no ret@rd atiim i can't add shield because 1. I am an armor tank 2. the PG nerf leaves me no room to add any shields 3. shield regen is roughly 10 on an armor tank meaning it would take forever to regen to full. Tanks will be slower and in addition have no cover due to the style of the new sockets that CCP is moving towards. Why did you compare the miltia version? Why not the proto version which drops 2385 damage to armor. Proto swarms are seen in every single game and often in numbers. When modules go into cooldown you will have taken enough terrain damage to lose all you shields and what AV you can kill off might leave you with around 5/6 armor. This then means that the madrugar has around 3400 armor left. Two volleys and it's done. Simple as that. Even with reps, they are so slow that two volleys down it. I wish AV engaged me with full health in game, but thanks to the terrain i never have shields and I am always into my armor. As to why I didn't respond sooner, I was to busy playing this game with my corpmates. Do you even play akena? I have never seen you and a lot of what I said would make sense to you if you did. People who come on here and argue and don't even play (IWS, Nova Knife, etc) really should be on here. I compared the militia swarms because I was questioning your assertion that two vollies from a militia swarm would kill a militia tank. If you manage to wreck 1200 shields, you are a bad driver. I do not tank as a main occupation, but I have never managed to deplete all of my shields by driving around. You're not looking at the tanks after the changes, are you? That would be where you are going wrong. A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks, even with the shields fully depleted from your apparently awful driving. 2385 damage is a mythical statistic unless you're looking at the current state of things, in which case you really should read up on the changes before trying to argue about balancing them. As I go through your post, I see more and more numbers from the current balance. Why bother arguing with them? They're being changed. The numbers are being provided. Look at them. The fact that you haven't seen me play doesn't mean I don't play, and it doesn't make the statistics I showed you any less valid. so you drive in a predictable pattern in the open? Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:39:00 - [83] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Takahiros 'partner' will be here shortly to reply 10 times to each individual comment from anyone who isn't supporting the HAV campaign ... you wait n see lol ... moar reinforcements to crush ignorant AV. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:41:00 - [84] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens !
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:45:00 - [85] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 802	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:46:00 - [86] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! Since you lazy AV players, who have no idea about even 1 out of the 100 things you have to know to run a tank, argue to death how their shouldn't be any hulls over std or modules over std I am concerned about this as a balance issue. As far as i'm concerned, advanced and proto AV should not exist until there are the proper tanks AND modules to use it against.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:47:00 - [87] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles !
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 803	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:50:00 - [88] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! tis funny you say this considering every match there is an IA forge or Wyrkomi swarm launcher no matter the game mode or what the BS matchmaking system decides it wants to do.
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:52:00 - [89] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! Edit 2 : Bed time anyhow ... have fun o7 I want a Proto nerf / removal because it's quicker then the introduction of pro vehicles, once pro vehicles come in you can have your once OP swarms back. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:54:00 - [90] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! tis funny you say this considering every match there is an IA forge or Wyrkomi swarm launcher no matter the game mode or what the BS matchmaking system decides it wants to do. That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally !

KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 803	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:55:00 - [91] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! Edit 2 : Bed time anyhow ... have fun o7 I want a Proto nerf / removal because it's quicker then the introduction of pro vehicles, once pro vehicles come in you can have your once OP swarms back. But that might make them use the T-word
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 803	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:56:00 - [92] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally ! Ever hear of drop uplinks?
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:56:00 - [93] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! Edit 2 : Bed time anyhow ... have fun o7 I want a Proto nerf / removal because it's quicker then the introduction of pro vehicles, once pro vehicles come in you can have your once OP swarms back. I'd be happy with that ... seems counter productive to balance all tiers of one thing against just the basic level of something else ... whatever it is you're putting on the scales ... once the rest is added you've got to RE-balance the other side !
Toby Flenderson research lab 100	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:58:00 - [94] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Once again read the post Mr. I have no idea about resist. The numbers don't add up and real word evidence suggests else wise. Go away troll. Your ideas are not valid on anything related with vehicles. You have no idea about anything I just posted. Once again, I already knew about hardners, I just didn't use them (or nitrous And if your using that logic, the why not HTFU about AV as you sure as heck don't use them or have any idea of what your talking about when it comes to AV And if you look at the marketplace stats, they do around 1720 damage. Right from my post 1720 dmg 1.35 armor efficiency1.3 weak spot glitch=3018.6 dmg. The weak spot seams to be all over the tank, which then makes all of CCP's AV grenade numbers off by a factor between 1.5 or 2. Prove my math wrong please. I don't think this is right either from experience but I'm willing to listen to reason if you have some explanation for the very common scenario I'll share with you. I try to take out tanks with PLC and Lai Dai grenades in the following obvious way... 1. PLC the shields away 2. Toss the Lai Dais 3. Try to hit it with the PLC if it survives I probably have about a 50% success rate after step 3. If your 3,000 damage figure is correct than they would have to have over 9,000 armor. This is rarely the case as I have squad mates tell me how much armor it has at full before I chase after it so that I can act accordingly. Typically I hear numbers between 5,000-7,000 armor. Shields are more than destroyed by my proto to PLC so I can only assume that all 9,000 damage goes into the tanks armor. I understand that tanks have resistance and reps but for how fast this all happens I don't see how they can survive roughly 11,000 damage in about 4 seconds when caught off guard followed by another PLC shot half of the time. If I am just missing some huge mechanic to tanking or messing up on math please let me know. But if you're claiming CCP has lied about the damage done by AV nades then I'd be interested in hearing your explanation for these encounters and how the grenades still can't destroy weakened tanks.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 00:59:00 - [95] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally ! Ever hear of drop uplinks? Yeah cos people are gonna go for the option of leaving that threat alive that's been raping them for insta-deaths n just run to the other side of the map to drop an uplink cos people are tolerant like that ... NO they're gonna spend some points in swarms or grenades n get some vengeance.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 803	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:06:00 - [96] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally ! Ever hear of drop uplinks? Yeah cos people are gonna go for the option of leaving that threat alive that's been raping them for insta-deaths n just run to the other side of the map to drop an uplink cos people are tolerant like that ... NO they're gonna spend some points in swarms or grenades n get some vengeance. It is a 50 ton piece of reinforced polycrystaline steel you know...that suffers from poor hit detection, horrible radar, and lack of vehicle locks. If throw a drop uplink on a building and one guy spawns with proto AV, the show is over.
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:08:00 - [97] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! Edit 2 : Bed time anyhow ... have fun o7 [Quote] A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks [Quote] Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 803	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:12:00 - [98] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Once again read the post Mr. I have no idea about resist. The numbers don't add up and real word evidence suggests else wise. Go away troll. Your ideas are not valid on anything related with vehicles. You have no idea about anything I just posted. Once again, I already knew about hardners, I just didn't use them (or nitrous And if your using that logic, the why not HTFU about AV as you sure as heck don't use them or have any idea of what your talking about when it comes to AV And if you look at the marketplace stats, they do around 1720 damage. Right from my post 1720 dmg 1.35 armor efficiency1.3 weak spot glitch=3018.6 dmg. The weak spot seams to be all over the tank, which then makes all of CCP's AV grenade numbers off by a factor between 1.5 or 2. Prove my math wrong please. I don't think this is right either from experience but I'm willing to listen to reason if you have some explanation for the very common scenario I'll share with you. I try to take out tanks with PLC and Lai Dai grenades in the following obvious way... 1. PLC the shields away 2. Toss the Lai Dais 3. Try to hit it with the PLC if it survives I probably have about a 50% success rate after step 3. If your 3,000 damage figure is correct than they would have to have over 9,000 armor. This is rarely the case as I have squad mates tell me how much armor it has at full before I chase after it so that I can act accordingly. Typically I hear numbers between 5,000-7,000 armor. Shields are more than destroyed by my proto to PLC so I can only assume that all 9,000 damage goes into the tanks armor. I understand that tanks have resistance and reps but for how fast this all happens I don't see how they can survive roughly 11,000 damage in about 4 seconds when caught off guard followed by another PLC shot half of the time. If I am just missing some huge mechanic to tanking or messing up on math please let me know. But if you're claiming CCP has lied about the damage done by AV nades then I'd be interested in hearing your explanation for these encounters and how the grenades still can't destroy weakened tanks. I have had several encounters with resistance running along with reps only to have 4 lai dai's kill me from behind. I was a 5700 armor. AV weapons tend to act very inconsistent compare to prior builds. I have seen lai dai's one shot soma's on more occasions than I have seen them do 1k damage or less. Swarms are the same way. There are times where a packed AV grenade does 1800 damage to my tank, even though it claims to only do 1300. Once again, going of what i have noticed as the person who has gone through half a million isk in their mercenary experience and seen it all.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:28:00 - [99] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally ! Ever hear of drop uplinks? Yeah cos people are gonna go for the option of leaving that threat alive that's been raping them for insta-deaths n just run to the other side of the map to drop an uplink cos people are tolerant like that ... NO they're gonna spend some points in swarms or grenades n get some vengeance. It is a 50 ton piece of reinforced polycrystaline steel you know...that suffers from poor hit detection, horrible radar, and lack of vehicle locks. If throw a drop uplink on a building and one guy spawns with proto AV, the show is over. I didn't know ... haven't seen that weight stat or what the hulls made of ... I know there were polycrystalline plates back in the day. Poor hit detection and horrible radar are not vehicle specific complaints. There is no 'lack of vehicle locks' ... vehicle locks have never been confirmed by CCP so what you're seeing is the 'working as intended' open access vehicles. Besides, you're getting the ability to not fit turrets which will remove the seats with them (confirmed). So putting an uplink in a strategic elevated position (only accessible by dropship) and using proto AV against basic vehicles is your answer to my reasoning why there is proto AV in every battle ... then you've lost the train of our discussion and I bid you good night o7
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 552	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:31:00 - [100] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: (Quote) A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks (Quote) fair enough ... didn't completely register that bit. I'm off anyway, g.night o7

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 464	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:44:00 - [101] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Notice how I put the pirate sign after the sentence, that way anyone with an IQ >30 will know that I'm joking You've proven yourself to be so stupid I couldn't tell whether or not you were joking. No, you've proven that you have an IQ <30 ahem this is part of your contract (repeat after me): "everything i've ever said on the subject of game balance, specifically balancing vehicles and AV is wrong, its so wrong that i feel sick that i even thought of them, and the fact that i spoke them makes me want to leap in front of a moving lav. i hereby retract all of my comments and enter an agreement with the dust community that it will not troll you overly and whack you with the logic bat too often on the basis that i will now refrain from posting in any vehicle or AV thread, this agreement is binding and can and will be edited in the future if the community deems it necessary." thanks gbghg <---- If I made a mistake it's arkena's fault Ahem You never promised my logistics BPO Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 464	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:47:00 - [102] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Takahiros 'partner' will be here shortly to reply 10 times to each individual comment from anyone who isn't supporting the HAV campaign ... you wait n see lol ... You mean Tankahiro And yep if you don't agree with tankers, despite using reasoning, logic, and *solid* calculations, then apparently your a biased lukeboy COD scrub. The nerve of some tankers, makes me wanna change my signature... In fact, brb Soon my brothers shall see the light, free from the shackles of the Amarr Captors All shall taste my Freedom SoonGäó
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 465	Posted - 2013.10.30 01:53:00 - [103] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about The fact that the tank had 4k armor and still died shows how AV is clearly overplaying it's role. The efficiency rating I am using confirm this. Under normal efficiency ratings you would not be able to do this. No, it shows that he's got a wad of BS up his @$$ He's clearly lying, and If I said "oh yeah proto av is so overpowered, that I even saw it take out a CRU in 3 hits, all you biased tanking dumbfucks would have said, "yeah Atiim that's right, in fact I also saw it happen myself" or some dumb *** like that. And I currently forgot her name, but someone came and basically saved me the time and proved all your "calculations" incorrect. You've yet to challenge said logic, so I fully believe that even you tankers don't believe the BS that your shoveling in CCP's yard. You guys are pathetic. Just stop. If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 803	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:15:00 - [104] - Quote Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about The fact that the tank had 4k armor and still died shows how AV is clearly overplaying it's role. The efficiency rating I am using confirm this. Under normal efficiency ratings you would not be able to do this. No, it shows that he's got a wad of BS up his @$$ He's clearly lying, and If I said "oh yeah proto av is so overpowered, that I even saw it take out a CRU in 3 hits, all you biased tanking dumbfucks would have said, "yeah Atiim that's right, in fact I also saw it happen myself" or some dumb *** like that. And I currently forgot her name, but someone came and basically saved me the time and proved all your "calculations" incorrect. You've yet to challenge said logic, so I fully believe that even you tankers don't believe the BS that your shoveling in CCP's yard. You guys are pathetic. Just stop. Thread is yours troll. Play nice.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 465	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:23:00 - [105] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about The fact that the tank had 4k armor and still died shows how AV is clearly overplaying it's role. The efficiency rating I am using confirm this. Under normal efficiency ratings you would not be able to do this. No, it shows that he's got a wad of BS up his @$$ He's clearly lying, and If I said "oh yeah proto av is so overpowered, that I even saw it take out a CRU in 3 hits, all you biased tanking dumbfucks would have said, "yeah Atiim that's right, in fact I also saw it happen myself" or some dumb *** like that. And I currently forgot her name, but someone came and basically saved me the time and proved all your "calculations" incorrect. You've yet to challenge said logic, so I fully believe that even you tankers don't believe the BS that your shoveling in CCP's yard. You guys are pathetic. Just stop. Thread is yours troll. Play nice. So basically instead of admitting that your wrong, you decide to take the easy way out and say "Thread is your's troll"? Yep you clearly don't believe the BS your saying If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 521	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:23:00 - [106] - Quote Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about The fact that the tank had 4k armor and still died shows how AV is clearly overplaying it's role. The efficiency rating I am using confirm this. Under normal efficiency ratings you would not be able to do this. No, it shows that he's got a wad of BS up his @$$ He's clearly lying, and If I said "oh yeah proto av is so overpowered, that I even saw it take out a CRU in 3 hits, all you biased tanking dumbfucks would have said, "yeah Atiim that's right, in fact I also saw it happen myself" or some dumb *** like that. And I currently forgot her name, but someone came and basically saved me the time and proved all your "calculations" incorrect. You've yet to challenge said logic, so I fully believe that even you tankers don't believe the BS that your shoveling in CCP's yard. You guys are pathetic. Just stop. don't revert to argumentum ad hominem, it makes you argument look weak. humans kitten up, it's in our nature. the reload time on swarms is shorter than the cool down on reps. you're a tanker and an AV specialist so I'm wasting my time telling you this. if the tank is already at 2-4k hp something hit it and it's entirely possible that the tank fought through it's rep cycle and came out worse for wear, you're a tanker it's nothing uncommon is it? so there is now a 30 second cool down where that tank is completely vulnerable; is it not possible that the exact HP value was unimportant at the time and thus unremembered but somewhere between 2-4k? if the HP was unimportant (it was) than could it be within the Damage of a single MLT swarm clip? if the tanker in question's reps were off line and he was at 1/3 hp could it not be possible that he prioritized escape over removing the threat and simply didn't shoot back? perhaps he knew that whatever took out 2/3 of his HP previous was repositioning to finish the job and a single MLT swarm was not the primary concern. all of this is circumstantial of course but I think it is safe to say that there are to many variables in play to tell positively if it's lie or truth. I'd write something witty to insult you and tarnish you name, perhaps making an allude to <30 IQ, but you've done a well enough job of destroying your reputation. I suppose I should thank you for saving me the trouble. "Change the scheme! Alter the mood! Electrify the boys and girls if you would be so kind" Ko6, scout, tanker.
Toby Flenderson research lab 100	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:34:00 - [107] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: I have had several encounters with resistance running along with reps only to have 4 lai dai's kill me from behind. I was a 5700 armor. AV weapons tend to act very inconsistent compare to prior builds. I have seen lai dai's one shot soma's on more occasions than I have seen them do 1k damage or less. Swarms are the same way. There are times where a packed AV grenade does 1800 damage to my tank, even though it claims to only do 1300. Once again, going of what i have noticed as the person who has gone through half a million isk in their mercenary experience and seen it all. Well 4 Lai Dai at 1,720 would be 6,880 base and so 9,180 with the 1.35 armo efficiency. This means that your resistance/reps would have to stop about 3,480 damage in the time it took the 4 Lai Dai to hit you or you're toast. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're implying that the main issue is the weak spot multiplier being glitched to all parts of the tank. If this were the case then the 4 Lai Dai would do 12,539 damage. But you survived the first 3 Lai Dai which would do 9,401 with the glitch which bumps the amount of damage you'd have compensate for through resistance/reps up to 3,700 in the time it takes to throw 3 Lai Dai. Now 3,700 is the minimum damage needed to "avoid" if you assume that the tank survives at 1hp (in reality it could be surviving at higher hp). Are you modules/skills high enough to pull off that kind of survivability? It seems like a tall order but to support this glitch theory I think you'd need to be able to pull that off for the numbers to work. Again, I'm not calling you out or anything. Just trying to reconcile my skepticism using your experience as a tanker and my experience using AV. It's rare I actually find someone to have a real discussion with about this
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 465	Posted - 2013.10.30 02:48:00 - [108] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: don't revert to argumentum ad hominem, it makes you argument look weak. humans kitten up, it's in our nature. the reload time on swarms is shorter than the cool down on reps. you're a tanker and an AV specialist so I'm wasting my time telling you this. if the tank is already at 2-4k hp something hit it and it's entirely possible that the tank fought through it's rep cycle and came out worse for wear, you're a tanker it's nothing uncommon is it? so there is now a 30 second cool down where that tank is completely vulnerable; is it not possible that the exact HP value was unimportant at the time and thus unremembered but somewhere between 2-4k? if the HP was unimportant (it was) than could it be within the Damage of a single MLT swarm clip? if the tanker in question's reps were off line and he was at 1/3 hp could it not be possible that he prioritized escape over removing the threat and simply didn't shoot back? perhaps he knew that whatever took out 2/3 of his HP previous was repositioning to finish the job and a single MLT swarm was not the primary concern. all of this is circumstantial of course but I think it is safe to say that there are to many variables in play to tell positively if it's lie or truth. I'd write something witty to insult you and tarnish you name, perhaps making an allude to <30 IQ, but you've done a well enough job of destroying your reputation. I suppose I should thank you for saving me the trouble. You can stop with the sarcasm, as I am a tanker and it has been proven with facts. Even the OP can confirm that My argument looks weak? Compared to what the POS arguments given by other tankers? So far i've heard that AV shouldn't matter and we should make tanks the best counter to tanks, despite AV being ANTI-VEHICLE, AV should be nerfed simply because it owns their sorry @$$ whenever they drive out in the open. I've also heard that it should always take three people with AV to destroy a tank, regardless pf how many tanks and or enemy infantry are present Ad hominem? Wow i'm surprised that the idiots of this forum even know what this mean. Anyways it is true. Not one thing I've said thus far is a lie. I like to support my arguments with facts and evidence, as opposed to doing what most tankers have done and make crap up and hoping that enough people will jump in and say "Oh yeah lol this is true I saw it myself". I use the most aggressive tactics possible to win my arguments, but I base them all on truth fact and reasoning. If you don't use aggressive tactics, you will never win an argument, no matter how idiotic the opponent's arguments and/or rebuttals are. And if you want a refresher on how to win an argument, then you should refer to Paul Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 805	Posted - 2013.10.30 03:27:00 - [109] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: I have had several encounters with resistance running along with reps only to have 4 lai dai's kill me from behind. I was a 5700 armor. AV weapons tend to act very inconsistent compare to prior builds. I have seen lai dai's one shot soma's on more occasions than I have seen them do 1k damage or less. Swarms are the same way. There are times where a packed AV grenade does 1800 damage to my tank, even though it claims to only do 1300. Once again, going of what i have noticed as the person who has gone through half a million isk in their mercenary experience and seen it all. Well 4 Lai Dai at 1,720 would be 6,880 base and so 9,180 with the 1.35 armo efficiency. This means that your resistance/reps would have to stop about 3,480 damage in the time it took the 4 Lai Dai to hit you or you're toast. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're implying that the main issue is the weak spot multiplier being glitched to all parts of the tank. If this were the case then the 4 Lai Dai would do 12,539 damage. But you survived the first 3 Lai Dai which would do 9,401 with the glitch which bumps the amount of damage you'd have compensate for through resistance/reps up to 3,700 in the time it takes to throw 3 Lai Dai. Now 3,700 is the minimum damage needed to "avoid" if you assume that the tank survives at 1hp (in reality it could be surviving at higher hp). Are you modules/skills high enough to pull off that kind of survivability? It seems like a tall order but to support this glitch theory I think you'd need to be able to pull that off for the numbers to work. Again, I'm not calling you out or anything. Just trying to reconcile my skepticism using your experience as a tanker and my experience using AV. It's rare I actually find someone to have a real discussion with about this ty for being rational. It seems that way more times than not as the entire tank is a weak spot. AV grenades seem to range so wide in their damage outputs and there has to be something beyond the weak spot, efficiency, and resistances. Perhaps there is a code glitch or something along those lines. CCP would be the only one who can answer that question and they seem to to take very little on player feedback in regards to vehicles and AV.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1149	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:22:00 - [110] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Base damage is 1764, with damage bonus against armor we're looking at around 2000 damage. Yes, they're pathetically easy to use, and far too effective for their ease of use.

Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 340	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:22:00 - [111] - Quote Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears Ha! As if you're one to talk about being biased.
Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 341	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:29:00 - [112] - Quote Atiim wrote: knight of 6 wrote: don't revert to argumentum ad hominem, it makes you argument look weak. humans kitten up, it's in our nature. the reload time on swarms is shorter than the cool down on reps. you're a tanker and an AV specialist so I'm wasting my time telling you this. if the tank is already at 2-4k hp something hit it and it's entirely possible that the tank fought through it's rep cycle and came out worse for wear, you're a tanker it's nothing uncommon is it? so there is now a 30 second cool down where that tank is completely vulnerable; is it not possible that the exact HP value was unimportant at the time and thus unremembered but somewhere between 2-4k? if the HP was unimportant (it was) than could it be within the Damage of a single MLT swarm clip? if the tanker in question's reps were off line and he was at 1/3 hp could it not be possible that he prioritized escape over removing the threat and simply didn't shoot back? perhaps he knew that whatever took out 2/3 of his HP previous was repositioning to finish the job and a single MLT swarm was not the primary concern. all of this is circumstantial of course but I think it is safe to say that there are to many variables in play to tell positively if it's lie or truth. I'd write something witty to insult you and tarnish you name, perhaps making an allude to <30 IQ, but you've done a well enough job of destroying your reputation. I suppose I should thank you for saving me the trouble. You can stop with the sarcasm, as I am a tanker and it has been proven with facts. Even the OP can confirm that My argument looks weak? Compared to what the POS arguments given by other tankers? So far i've heard that AV shouldn't matter and we should make tanks the best counter to tanks, despite AV being ANTI-VEHICLE, AV should be nerfed simply because it owns their sorry @$$ whenever they drive out in the open. I've also heard that it should always take three people with AV to destroy a tank, regardless pf how many tanks and or enemy infantry are present Ad hominem? Wow i'm surprised that the idiots of this forum even know what this mean. Anyways it is true. Not one thing I've said thus far is a lie. I like to support my arguments with facts and evidence, as opposed to doing what most tankers have done and make crap up and hoping that enough people will jump in and say "Oh yeah lol this is true I saw it myself". I use the most aggressive tactics possible to win my arguments, but I base them all on truth fact and reasoning. If you don't use aggressive tactics, you will never win an argument, no matter how idiotic the opponent's arguments and/or rebuttals are. And if you want a refresher on how to win an argument, then you should refer to Paul Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement Yes, yes your arguments are weak based on the fact that all you tend to insult others and sprout bullshit out of your mouth instead of giving facts, numbers, videos, and other types of evidence like many others have. When you stop being pathetic and actually listen, consider, and compare these pieces of evidence and base a conclusion off of that, then people might start to actually take you seriously again. Don't base your argument on hearsay and prejudice, it typically ends up embarrassing you.
Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 341	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:34:00 - [113] - Quote Atiim wrote: [quote=KenKaniff69]\ No, it shows that he's got a wad of BS up his @$$ He's clearly lying, and If I said "oh yeah proto av is so overpowered, that I even saw it take out a CRU in 3 hits, all you biased tanking dumbfucks would have said, "yeah Atiim that's right, in fact I also saw it happen myself" or some dumb *** like that. And I currently forgot her name, but someone came and basically saved me the time and proved all your "calculations" incorrect. You've yet to challenge said logic, so I fully believe that even you tankers don't believe the BS that your shoveling in CCP's yard. You guys are pathetic. Just stop. Of course you forgot her name, right? Quote: "yeah Atiim that's right, in fact I also saw it happen myself" or some dumb ** like that. This is you. That is how you act. That is how you will continue to act. You must love being thrown in the same category as those idiots to not try and be different, logical. Quote: You've yet to challenge said logic, Quote it and then we'll discuss it.... and find out if was made by one of your alts If it even exist. To quote yourself: Quote:** You guys are pathetic. Just stop. Stop embarrassing yourself further than you already have.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1149	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:35:00 - [114] - Quote Shattered Mirage wrote: Yes, yes your arguments are weak based on the fact that all you tend to insult others and sprout bullshit out of your mouth instead of giving facts, numbers, videos, and other types of evidence like many others have. When you stop being pathetic and actually listen, consider, and compare these pieces of evidence and base a conclusion off of that, then people might start to actually take you seriously again. Don't base your argument on hearsay and prejudice, it typically ends up embarrassing you. Like I keep telling him, if he really was a tanker, he wouldn't be on a crusade against tanks.
Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 341	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:37:00 - [115] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Shattered Mirage wrote: Yes, yes your arguments are weak based on the fact that all you tend to insult others and sprout bullshit out of your mouth instead of giving facts, numbers, videos, and other types of evidence like many others have. When you stop being pathetic and actually listen, consider, and compare these pieces of evidence and base a conclusion off of that, then people might start to actually take you seriously again. Don't base your argument on hearsay and prejudice, it typically ends up embarrassing you. Like I keep telling him, if he really was a tanker, he wouldn't be on a crusade against tanks. Eh, I think he is just lonely and wants the attention Notice all the trolling he does lately?
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 568	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:37:00 - [116] - Quote ok, more of these showing up and still more bad math. Videos of current gameplay, are not good arguements of how things will work in 1.7 because things are changing. While I have not done the leg work on shield regen and how long it would take to come back from attack I did build this www.dust514stats.com/compare.cfm which will tell you how long it would take to kill a vehicle with x weapon or if it is even possible. it's still a work in progress, mostly because the coding for it is rather hard, and also because the numbers are in flux. Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 341	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:43:00 - [117] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: ok, more of these showing up and still more bad math. Videos of current gameplay, are not good arguements of how things will work in 1.7 because things are changing. While I have not done the leg work on shield regen and how long it would take to come back from attack I did build this www.dust514stats.com/compare.cfm which will tell you how long it would take to kill a vehicle with x weapon or if it is even possible. it's still a work in progress, mostly because the coding for it is rather hard, and also because the numbers are in flux. You see Atiim? This is how it should be done. He/She provides evidence for their standpoint (Thanks for the stats btw). He/She at the very least provides numbers to mess around with to come to a solid conclusion if possible. This can be useful for constructive discussions on the subject at a later date, potentially even helping out the Devs.
Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 341	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:50:00 - [118] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears It was arrogance like yours, and all those who think swarming requires skill, all of those who could freely spam their AV grenades and think they were bad asses for doing jack all, it was all of you who made this AV nerf possible. Thank you for having vastly over inflated opinions of yourselves. ALL HAIL THE REIGN OF THE VEHICLES! Ok fine go 30m away from a tank, and try soloing it while infantry is firing at you at the same time, and before you say "Oh you shouldn't be taking fire from infantry" BS note that I don't AV from the redline (swarms don't have the intelligence). And yeah considering that that almost always happens, swarms do require skill, at least you can kill people with a FG, or PLC but I can't lock on to a scout with a SL and watch him run like crazy to cover. And only tankers and LAV who are stupid enough to drive into crowds of infantry have to deal with AV grenades. You say this as if tanking requires skill like a chess game, when I've managed to do perfectly fine with my cheap so-so 400k tank. All you have to do is shoot and then go into cover when you overheat and/or your modules die. Thank you for having vastly over-inflated opinions of yourselves, next time you wanna moan about something, do what I did and skill into it. You are literally no better than logi hatters who assume that it is easy mode while never specing into them Quote: Thank you for having vastly over-inflated opinions of yourself next time you wanna moan about something, actually use it against experienced players instead of players fresh out of the academy; actually prove that you use it and are not just bullshitting.You are literally no better than logi hatters who assume that it is easy mode while never specing into them Read it carefully, read it again.... now, read it one more last time. Have you got it now? I'm not completely sure since you don't seem like the type of person smart enough to understand what they just wrote and how it applies to themselves. Also, you're lumping yourself, again, right into the group of people you apparently hate so much... well, apparently you must quite like being like 'em if you continue to act this way.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 568	Posted - 2013.10.30 04:50:00 - [119] - Quote to note, I am not knocking KenKaniff69 or his math as, like I said I have not done the level work on that math. I will give it a look and see if I agree with it or not. Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4456	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:59:00 - [120] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. Can you read? Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution

Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4456	Posted - 2013.10.30 07:01:00 - [121] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: (Quote) A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks (Quote) fair enough ... didn't completely register that bit. I'm off anyway, g.night o7 Quoting without context. The math was disproving the whining of 'WTF IT 2 SHOTS ME' Level 4 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 280	Posted - 2013.10.30 07:12:00 - [122] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Takahiros 'partner' will be here shortly to reply 10 times to each individual comment from anyone who isn't supporting the HAV campaign ... you wait n see lol ... You were right and the best thing: his fbuddy isn't even a tanker, lol.
Void Echo Blades of Dust 1989	Posted - 2013.10.30 07:20:00 - [123] - Quote Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears don't bring me into this scrub... im done arguing and debating the non-existing balance.. especially with biased pricks like you. the biggest thing going against you is that you are a tank driver yet your advocating tanks being nerfed even more so that even complete retards like you can solo your own tank by yourself with militia AV. your a giant contradiction and will never have any respect from anyone other than lukeboy and the others who have stated before that they want this to be call of duty without vehicles. Youtube Closed Beta Vet Top 10 Tankers // Master Rail Gunner
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 280	Posted - 2013.10.30 07:23:00 - [124] - Quote I really don't get the math in the OP post. How does he know, whether I have 0, 1 or 2 armor repairers in my tank?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1149	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:03:00 - [125] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Takahiros 'partner' will be here shortly to reply 10 times to each individual comment from anyone who isn't supporting the HAV campaign ... you wait n see lol ... You were right and the best thing: his fbuddy isn't even a tanker, lol. So you think. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1149	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:13:00 - [126] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally ! So infantry can spawn elsewhere with swarms and start sending them towards the tank. And don't you start talking about infantry having to adapt or die. Tankers have had to do that through 5 or 6 builds now, and we're apparently still going strong, due to the amount of complaining infantry is doing about us. Ever wonder why that is? Maybe it's because tankers are more intelligent; more aware of their surroundings, and strengths and weaknesses, when to engage and when to break contact, and how to fit their vehicle? Tanks are pathetically easy to destroy. I have 0 problem going after a tank with somebody to make sure we get the kill. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1149	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:14:00 - [127] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Atiim wrote: Lai Dai deals somewhere around 1700 damage At least try using them Once again read the post Mr. I have no idea about resist. The numbers don't add up and real word evidence suggests else wise. Go away troll. Your ideas are not valid on anything related with vehicles. You have no idea about anything I just posted. Once again, I already knew about hardners, I just didn't use them (or nitrous And if your using that logic, the why not HTFU about AV as you sure as heck don't use them or have any idea of what your talking about when it comes to AV And if you look at the marketplace stats, they do around 1720 damage. Right from my post 1720 dmg 1.35 armor efficiency1.3 weak spot glitch=3018.6 dmg. The weak spot seams to be all over the tank, which then makes all of CCP's AV grenade numbers off by a factor between 1.5 or 2. Prove my math wrong please. I don't think this is right either from experience but I'm willing to listen to reason if you have some explanation for the very common scenario I'll share with you. I try to take out tanks with PLC and Lai Dai grenades in the following obvious way... 1. PLC the shields away 2. Toss the Lai Dais 3. Try to hit it with the PLC if it survives I probably have about a 50% success rate after step 3. If your 3,000 damage figure is correct than they would have to have over 9,000 armor. This is rarely the case as I have squad mates tell me how much armor it has at full before I chase after it so that I can act accordingly. Typically I hear numbers between 5,000-7,000 armor. Shields are more than destroyed by my proto to PLC so I can only assume that all 9,000 damage goes into the tanks armor. I understand that tanks have resistance and reps but for how fast this all happens I don't see how they can survive roughly 11,000 damage in about 4 seconds when caught off guard followed by another PLC shot half of the time. If I am just missing some huge mechanic to tanking or messing up on math please let me know. But if you're claiming CCP has lied about the damage done by AV nades then I'd be interested in hearing your explanation for these encounters and how the grenades still can't destroy weakened tanks. Because heavy armor reppers are amazing. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1149	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:17:00 - [128] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears don't bring me into this scrub... im done arguing and debating the non-existing balance.. especially with biased pricks like you. the biggest thing going against you is that you are a tank driver yet your advocating tanks being nerfed even more so that even complete retards like you can solo your own tank by yourself with militia AV. your a giant contradiction and will never have any respect from anyone other than lukeboy and the others who have stated before that they want this to be call of duty without vehicles. He doesn't know the first, second or third things about tanking, because he's lying. I'd love to know how his tank is fit out. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 60	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:30:00 - [129] - Quote it confuses me how my 2.5 mill isk vayu can absoultey stroll over any tank i come across. and these guns are huge. but a tiny litte rocket launcher can ptu a larger hole in me and kill me quicker thana tank sized weapon? hopefully this changes so i can see more tank fights. and drop a vayu more often.
Toby Flenderson research lab 100	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:43:00 - [130] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: I have had several encounters with resistance running along with reps only to have 4 lai dai's kill me from behind. I was a 5700 armor. AV weapons tend to act very inconsistent compare to prior builds. I have seen lai dai's one shot soma's on more occasions than I have seen them do 1k damage or less. Swarms are the same way. There are times where a packed AV grenade does 1800 damage to my tank, even though it claims to only do 1300. Once again, going of what i have noticed as the person who has gone through half a million isk in their mercenary experience and seen it all. Well 4 Lai Dai at 1,720 would be 6,880 base and so 9,180 with the 1.35 armo efficiency. This means that your resistance/reps would have to stop about 3,480 damage in the time it took the 4 Lai Dai to hit you or you're toast. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're implying that the main issue is the weak spot multiplier being glitched to all parts of the tank. If this were the case then the 4 Lai Dai would do 12,539 damage. But you survived the first 3 Lai Dai which would do 9,401 with the glitch which bumps the amount of damage you'd have compensate for through resistance/reps up to 3,700 in the time it takes to throw 3 Lai Dai. Now 3,700 is the minimum damage needed to "avoid" if you assume that the tank survives at 1hp (in reality it could be surviving at higher hp). Are you modules/skills high enough to pull off that kind of survivability? It seems like a tall order but to support this glitch theory I think you'd need to be able to pull that off for the numbers to work. Again, I'm not calling you out or anything. Just trying to reconcile my skepticism using your experience as a tanker and my experience using AV. It's rare I actually find someone to have a real discussion with about this ty for being rational. It seems that way more times than not as the entire tank is a weak spot. AV grenades seem to range so wide in their damage outputs and there has to be something beyond the weak spot, efficiency, and resistances. Perhaps there is a code glitch or something along those lines. CCP would be the only one who can answer that question and they seem to to take very little on player feedback in regards to vehicles and AV. Fair enough. I admit that I have thought that as well but just threw it up to ranges in tank armor. Then again, I'm not inside the tank to see the results so I will take your word for it. Thanks for helping me understand the other side of the argument. In general how do you feel about the vehicle changes? I've seen nerfs to AV and changes to vehicles and I know it's premature to say one will be superior over the other but it just looks like AV is reduced greatly. Are the vehicle changes a nerf as well in your opinion?

pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1230	Posted - 2013.10.30 11:49:00 - [131] - Quote Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears at this point id like to point out that AV is probably the most op weaponry in this game. Come here son id like to tell you a wee story ion a manner you can understand. once apon a time in a land known as dust514 in an era known as chrom, there were very few people who specked in to, these folks found it incredibly hard to solo havs with their mlt av so they all went crying to the mighty king CCP "ooohhh woe betide us ccp your tanks are to strong". CCP looked down apon their dominion and saw the carnage that was on their doorstep with tanks running amok everywhere ......but the great king of dust land didn't think to himself why are these tanks so god dam powerful is it because their is no adv or pro av on field or is it because tanks are op, this is what the great king pondered over. So the King said to the crying cod boys of the land of dust fear ye not cod boys, I will make things right again. so the mighty king swung his hash Nerf hammer and battered the tanks into oblivion. The dust 514 cod boys rejoiced at this act of mercyless and unwarranted nerfing. A few months past in the land of dust when a strange migration of murder taxis appeared in the once prosperous land. Now with the arrival of the swarms of murder taxis the peoples of dust started specking into adv and proto av, but this was still not enough for the cod boys as they still couldent solo a well fitted limby chabby or hav, so they cried a little more to their king so the king said hear ye all my subjects thou shall have an extra 10% damage added to the attack power of all your mighty wepons that you might weild by hand. the peoples of dust rejoiced. By this time the king could see hoards of swarm and av nading mercs running round every battlefield popping almost every vehicle in sight, the odd chabby, limby or hav would escape their onslaught .......but this was not enough for the cod boys and they cried some more. so the great king listening to his advisers again buffed the most unskilled of all wepons the dreaded swarm launcher. Spreading more fear and hate amongst the peoples of dust 514 The horrors that ensued were so bad that the king looked at all the changes that had occurred and thought to himself why did I listen to evil wizard known as Blam the destroyer of hope amongst the vehicular population. Why oh why the great king thought .......... The king after looking at the consequences of listening to cod boys executed his adviser Blam and brought in a new adviser and sought new council . The King after much deliberation and discussion thought to himself we really messed this one up we changed things that were fine and if the peoples had just skilled into AV in the first place we would not be here. So drastic action was and is needed , the king and his council are reworking the laws of dust in the aims of finding balance amongst his subjects, the end. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Toby Flenderson research lab 100	Posted - 2013.10.30 12:09:00 - [132] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. Can you read? I have one problem with Ben's argument and that is that he's implying that hitting the weak spot of a tank is based on skill. Say that a tank is 50+m away from you and you but facing you (or at the very least its weak spot is not exposed). I think it's fair to say that this is a very common scenario and not some constructed exception to the rule. Now you have two options regarding how to engage the tank... 1. Lock on and fire form a distance. 2. Run straight at the tank and then walk around to the back before locking on and firing. 3. Run in some strategic pattern that repositions you behind the tank at a distance before engaging. Option 1 is clearly the best choice as it leaves you some distance between you and the tank and is safer. It gives you a much greater chance to successfully fire off the 3 volleys. I argue that a skilled SL user would utilize this tactic and have a much higher success rate than either 2 or 3. Option 2 is a death trap. Good luck charging straight at a tank and then having enough survival time to get 3 volleys off while you stand right behind it. I would put more money on infantry killing you if you made it within 5m of the tank before you even get one volley off. This tactic however gives your swarms a higher chance of hitting the weak spot in the back. Note that at even 50 meters it will take you 5-10 seconds to sprint this distance depending on the suit you have. Option 3 is safer than option 2 with the same sort of advantage. You get a better chance to hit the weak spot as the missiles are able to straighten out before hitting the tank. You're also safer but it takes a much longer time to circle around a tank. Imagine if it were a circular path. That's more than 50(pi) > 150m thus 15-30 seconds plus time for your stamina to recharge. This also assumes the tank does not change it's position in 15-30 seconds. Compare the time and luck involved with options 2 and 3. These are very poor approaches to engaging a tank yet they are the only way you can control the angle at which the missiles hit the tank. To claim that skill is involved in any way is just ridiculous when the only two ways to demonstrate this "skill" require 2-3 times as much time to perform a full 3-volley swarm attack. Obviously if the tank is further than 50 meters then this is just too stupid to even talk about. TL;DR: There is no reasonable way to "aim for the weak spot" and implying that people who do not try do not have skill is dumb.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 553	Posted - 2013.10.30 12:50:00 - [133] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally ! So infantry can spawn elsewhere with swarms and start sending them towards the tank. And don't you start talking about infantry having to adapt or die. Tankers have had to do that through 5 or 6 builds now, and we're apparently still going strong, due to the amount of complaining infantry is doing about us. Ever wonder why that is? Maybe it's because tankers are more intelligent; more aware of their surroundings, and strengths and weaknesses, when to engage and when to break contact, and how to fit their vehicle? Tanks are pathetically easy to destroy. I have 0 problem going after a tank with somebody to make sure we get the kill. Out of context much !? No infantry CAN'T spawn elsewhere with swarms ... because they are not skilled in swarms that would even scratch the strength of HAVs we used to have. THAT is why infantry HAD to adapt ... and THAT is why there is now "proto skilled AV infantry in every match". If you can't follow a conversation properly, don't reply to my posts !
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 553	Posted - 2013.10.30 12:57:00 - [134] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: I have had several encounters with resistance running along with reps only to have 4 lai dai's kill me from behind. I was a 5700 armor. AV weapons tend to act very inconsistent compare to prior builds. I have seen lai dai's one shot soma's on more occasions than I have seen them do 1k damage or less. Swarms are the same way. There are times where a packed AV grenade does 1800 damage to my tank, even though it claims to only do 1300. Once again, going of what i have noticed as the person who has gone through half a million isk in their mercenary experience and seen it all. Well 4 Lai Dai at 1,720 would be 6,880 base and so 9,180 with the 1.35 armo efficiency. This means that your resistance/reps would have to stop about 3,480 damage in the time it took the 4 Lai Dai to hit you or you're toast. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're implying that the main issue is the weak spot multiplier being glitched to all parts of the tank. If this were the case then the 4 Lai Dai would do 12,539 damage. But you survived the first 3 Lai Dai which would do 9,401 with the glitch which bumps the amount of damage you'd have compensate for through resistance/reps up to 3,700 in the time it takes to throw 3 Lai Dai. Now 3,700 is the minimum damage needed to "avoid" if you assume that the tank survives at 1hp (in reality it could be surviving at higher hp). Are you modules/skills high enough to pull off that kind of survivability? It seems like a tall order but to support this glitch theory I think you'd need to be able to pull that off for the numbers to work. Again, I'm not calling you out or anything. Just trying to reconcile my skepticism using your experience as a tanker and my experience using AV. It's rare I actually find someone to have a real discussion with about this ty for being rational. It seems that way more times than not as the entire tank is a weak spot. AV grenades seem to range so wide in their damage outputs and there has to be something beyond the weak spot, efficiency, and resistances. Perhaps there is a code glitch or something along those lines. CCP would be the only one who can answer that question and they seem to to take very little on player feedback in regards to vehicles and AV. Fair enough. I admit that I have thought that as well but just threw it up to ranges in tank armor. Then again, I'm not inside the tank to see the results so I will take your word for it. Thanks for helping me understand the other side of the argument. In general how do you feel about the vehicle changes? I've seen nerfs to AV and changes to vehicles and I know it's premature to say one will be superior over the other but it just looks like AV is reduced greatly. Are the vehicle changes a nerf as well in your opinion? In relation to this weakspot problem ... Is it possible the splash damage of grenades is hitting the weakspot ? Maybe that's then being calculated as a secondary damage on top of the direct hit, so you're effectively getting 2 direct hits for the price of one. I wonder if the devs could look into this ? As it's not really something that can be tested ingame.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 553	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:01:00 - [135] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: (Quote) A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks (Quote) fair enough ... didn't completely register that bit. I'm off anyway, g.night o7 Quoting without context. The math was disproving the whining of 'WTF IT 2 SHOTS ME' My appologies ... as I'd said previously, I thought you were debating something else, but it was late and I was going to bed, so I just left it after he 'supposedly' quoted what you said. Again appologies for taking his word.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 465	Posted - 2013.10.30 13:08:00 - [136] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about So Militia swarms do 1320 damage plus the 63% bonus I get from the weak spot and the armor bonus if I'm informed correctly minus the 49% resist I believe he had gives me a 12% bonus so about 1,478 damage multiplied by 3 is 4,434 damage so tell me why I couldn't have called the tank if it had 4k armor. Swarm launcher's path and targeting is not controlled by the user, so hitting a weak spot is very rare. 1,478 multiplied by two, not three (even more proof that you don't use AV) . And with slow lock times, coupled by the fact that the tank would not have been standing still while doing this means that The most he could have possibly done is 2,956 HP Here is a tip, use a swarm launcher before talking about them, it usually helps If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1582	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:04:00 - [137] - Quote Swarms need range if they are to be low damage.. CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting... Level 1 Forum Warrior
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1565	Posted - 2013.10.30 14:09:00 - [138] - Quote So i pretty much skipped the past 6 pages because it goes somehting like this Vehicle pilots use logic and AV are crying because they cannot solo vehicles anymore with an I WIN button Big problem is these AV scrubs are basing everything off of scrubby pub matches, PC is where it should be balanced, I play PC everyday, go up against proto AV everything too in my basic tank with basic mods and its defences are simply not enough, not against proto AV because i dont have a proto tank and mods I can play pubs and maybe stomp and go 40-0 because no AV is about which isnt my problem its the enemys problem But with pubs you can play solo and come up against 2 6man squads, not your fault its lack of match making Balancing for pubs is just a bad idea since pubs is unbalanced with just 1 6man squad against randoms anyways, PC is coordinated teamwork from both sides to get an objective and win the match The vehicles and AV rebalancing may actually give vehicles a role in PC and a chance to be a game changer maybe but at least it maybe be able to hold its own and actually tank something But if it ruins pubs i couldnt care less because matchmaking is broke and i cant help it, but when team deploy comes in i will be in FW earning LP This is only the 1st set of actual nerfs that AV has recieved in over 6months of consistant buffs and i expect alot will quit AV because teamwork is an alien concept to them but will still cry when a tank is on the field wrecking **** unopposed because the infantry let them
Toby Flenderson research lab 100	Posted - 2013.10.30 19:34:00 - [139] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So i pretty much skipped the past 6 pages because it goes somehting like this Vehicle pilots use logic and AV are crying because they cannot solo vehicles anymore with an I WIN button Big problem is these AV scrubs are basing everything off of scrubby pub matches, PC is where it should be balanced, I play PC everyday, go up against proto AV everything too in my basic tank with basic mods and its defences are simply not enough, not against proto AV because i dont have a proto tank and mods I can play pubs and maybe stomp and go 40-0 because no AV is about which isnt my problem its the enemys problem But with pubs you can play solo and come up against 2 6man squads, not your fault its lack of match making Balancing for pubs is just a bad idea since pubs is unbalanced with just 1 6man squad against randoms anyways, PC is coordinated teamwork from both sides to get an objective and win the match The vehicles and AV rebalancing may actually give vehicles a role in PC and a chance to be a game changer maybe but at least it maybe be able to hold its own and actually tank something But if it ruins pubs i couldnt care less because matchmaking is broke and i cant help it, but when team deploy comes in i will be in FW earning LP This is only the 1st set of actual nerfs that AV has recieved in over 6months of consistant buffs and i expect alot will quit AV because teamwork is an alien concept to them but will still cry when a tank is on the field wrecking **** unopposed because the infantry let them One could just as easily have summarized it the other way. For example, "Vehicle users cry because they can be killed and AV users are the reasonable ones leveling out the playing field". As far as matchmaking being broken I also disagree. I've been in more close games since 1.5 than I have been in the last few months. Especially with squad finder. It's so easy to form squads now and if someone isn't joining them and then complaining that it's unfair to be put against them then I don't know what to say to them. I also disagree with using PC to balance things. If more people play in pub matches then basing everything off of PC wouldn't represent the conditions found in most games for most people. Also if teamwork is so important why not complain that more people don't support tanks? I've seen logi jeeps keep tanks alive and multiple gunners can help take out the infantry trying to spam AV nades. You're coming off as just another elitist "I'm right and you're wrong because I just am" type of voice right now. Maybe try and consider that more than just EoN plays this game.
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:18:00 - [140] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: He had in between 1/3 and 2/3 armor so he still had a good 2k-4k resisted armor that I just burned through. If he had 2k armor, then he was practically dead to begin with If he had 4k, then you would not have killed him with MLT swarms, and yeah why did he sit there and give you time to reload again? Please answer this question in your post, as i want to make sure you know what your talking about So Militia swarms do 1320 damage plus the 63% bonus I get from the weak spot and the armor bonus if I'm informed correctly minus the 49% resist I believe he had gives me a 12% bonus so about 1,478 damage multiplied by 3 is 4,434 damage so tell me why I couldn't have called the tank if it had 4k armor. Swarm launcher's path and targeting is not controlled by the user, so hitting a weak spot is very rare. 1,478 multiplied by two, not three (even more proof that you don't use AV) . And with slow lock times, coupled by the fact that the tank would not have been standing still while doing this means that The most he could have possibly done is 2,956 HP Here is a tip, use a swarm launcher before talking about them, it usually helps I hit him three times that's why I multiplied by three you idiot you know that too because you asked me how I reloaded in time. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have

Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:25:00 - [141] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: (Quote) A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks (Quote) fair enough ... didn't completely register that bit. I'm off anyway, g.night o7 Quoting without context. The math was disproving the whining of 'WTF IT 2 SHOTS ME' My appologies ... as I'd said previously, I thought you were debating something else, but it was late and I was going to bed, so I just left it after he 'supposedly' quoted what you said. Again appologies for taking his word. With text I compared the militia swarms because I was questioning your assertion that two vollies from a militia swarm would kill a militia tank. If you manage to wreck 1200 shields, you are a bad driver. I do not tank as a main occupation, but I have never managed to deplete all of my shields by driving around. You're not looking at the tanks after the changes, are you? That would be where you are going wrong. A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks, even with the shields fully depleted from your apparently awful driving. 2385 damage is a mythical statistic unless you're looking at the current state of things, in which case you really should read up on the changes before trying to argue about balancing them. As I go through your post, I see more and more numbers from the current balance. Why bother arguing with them? They're being changed. The numbers are being provided. Look at them. The fact that you haven't seen me play doesn't mean I don't play, and it doesn't make the statistics I showed you any less valid.[/quote] I added 2 exclamation points around were I pulled the info I'll have to check the math but I do agree that it's probably impossible to 2 shot a MLT tank with MLT swarms will get back to you on that, I was just pointing out the BS that you added about not being able to do it with Prof V 5 dmg mods and a proto swarm. Page 4 comment 75 for unaltered version. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:28:00 - [142] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: (Quote) A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks (Quote) fair enough ... didn't completely register that bit. I'm off anyway, g.night o7 Quoting without context. The math was disproving the whining of 'WTF IT 2 SHOTS ME' He read it therefore I assumed he knew the context plus it was not in accurate. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
jerrmy12 kahoalii Ultramarine Corp 78	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:46:00 - [143] - Quote Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears aww, a av QQ'r that gets mad when he can't solo a good fit tank, how cute
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 465	Posted - 2013.10.30 21:49:00 - [144] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears aww, a av QQ'r that gets mad when he can't solo a good fit tank, how cute Wouldn't be problem if it took more than 1 man to operate a tank. But it doesn't, and it creates an obvious numerical advantage when you cannot do so.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 555	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:11:00 - [145] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears aww, a av QQ'r that gets mad when he can't solo a good fit tank, how cute Wouldn't be problem if it took more than 1 man to operate a tank. But it doesn't, and it creates an obvious numerical advantage when you cannot do so. Ahh we've reached that stage in every HAV/AV thread were they start whining about how much isk and sp it costs and how it should take multiple people to take them out, even though they earnt all that sp by spamming infinate ammo at unskilled infantry in a easy mode steel box invulnerable to all but a few weapons ... aww they have it so hard !
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 467	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:21:00 - [146] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears don't bring me into this scrub... im done arguing and debating the non-existing balance.. especially with biased pricks like you. the biggest thing going against you is that you are a tank driver yet your advocating tanks being nerfed even more so that even complete retards like you can solo your own tank by yourself with militia AV. your a giant contradiction and will never have any respect from anyone other than lukeboy and the others who have stated before that they want this to be call of duty without vehicles. WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, as despite your thoughts, makes me quite possibly one of the only people who's opinion matters, as unlike 90% of the community, I have seen everything from all points of views, as I am quite literally everything in this game, from Heavies and Scouts, to Assault and Logistics, to even Tanker and AV. The fact that you are a tanker without PRO AV and call me a biased prick at the same time is laughably pathetic, as anyone with half a brain on these forums would be laughing at you by now. You are actually a walking definition of hypocrisy, considering that you tell people "HTFU you aren't a tanker, so your opinions don't matter", yet you are the first one to jump when people tell you "HTFU you aren't AV, so your opinions don't matter. No MLT AV with no skills invested have ever soloed a well fitted tank, and I have never once said nor implied the following: Tanks should be nerfed AV should be buffed I should solo with MLT AV "HTFU your opinions don't matter" (except to counter the arguments of those who have said similar) The fact that you imply that I have said any of this is dumbfounding, as that would mean you don't even completely read and comprehend what I am saying, heck I even had a post of you admitting to this yourself. I have done literally nothing but try to explain things from the view of AV, yet some people still said "HTFU lukeoboy you aren't a real tanker because you side with AV". Well now that this argument was thrown out the window by your own video (which we've yet to see), you have absolutely nothing to counter my truth. The respect the community has won't matter, as if something is wrong it's wrong, no matter how many people support the contrary. And if you ask people who know me in-game, they will tell you just how un-biased I truly am. And as far as my tank and your tank goes Mine>Yours. I won't explain why in this post, because I want you to have some time to think about this before you talk about my "**** Fit" TL;DR: I am quite literally one of the most non-biased person this forum has and will ever see If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 467	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:22:00 - [147] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears aww, a av QQ'r that gets mad when he can't solo a good fit tank, how cute Refer to my last post ^^^ If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2005	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:38:00 - [148] - Quote Atiim wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears don't bring me into this scrub... im done arguing and debating the non-existing balance.. especially with biased pricks like you. the biggest thing going against you is that you are a tank driver yet your advocating tanks being nerfed even more so that even complete retards like you can solo your own tank by yourself with militia AV. your a giant contradiction and will never have any respect from anyone other than lukeboy and the others who have stated before that they want this to be call of duty without vehicles. WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, as despite your thoughts, makes me quite possibly one of the only people who's opinion matters, as unlike 90% of the community, I have seen everything from all points of views, as I am quite literally everything in this game, from Heavies and Scouts, to Assault and Logistics, to even Tanker and AV. The fact that you are a tanker without PRO AV and call me a biased prick at the same time is laughably pathetic, as anyone with half a brain on these forums would be laughing at you by now. You are actually a walking definition of hypocrisy, considering that you tell people "HTFU you aren't a tanker, so your opinions don't matter", yet you are the first one to jump when people tell you "HTFU you aren't AV, so your opinions don't matter. No MLT AV with no skills invested have ever soloed a well fitted tank, and I have never once said nor implied the following: Tanks should be nerfed AV should be buffed I should solo with MLT AV "HTFU your opinions don't matter" (except to counter the arguments of those who have said similar) The fact that you imply that I have said any of this is dumbfounding, as that would mean you don't even completely read and comprehend what I am saying, heck I even had a post of you admitting to this yourself. I have done literally nothing but try to explain things from the view of AV, yet some people still said "HTFU lukeoboy you aren't a real tanker because you side with AV". Well now that this argument was thrown out the window by your own video (which we've yet to see), you have absolutely nothing to counter my truth. The respect the community has won't matter, as if something is wrong it's wrong, no matter how many people support the contrary. And if you ask people who know me in-game, they will tell you just how un-biased I truly am. And as far as my tank and your tank goes Mine>Yours. I won't explain why in this post, because I want you to have some time to think about this before you talk about my "** Fit" TL;DR: I am quite literally one of the most non-biased person this forum has and will ever see like I said, im not getting dragged into this.... the fact that you side with av in the non-existing balance makes you the biggest contradiction in the game, and yes we have proof that you want tanks to be non existing.... your posts say it all... when we want a buff, you come here saying no we should be nerfed because you can solo us. and about your tank... there is no possibly way you know more about tanks in your mere 4 months than someone like me who has used tanks for over a year. every point you make makes you look weaker and more stupid. tanks are the biggest joke in the game next to dropships, if my SP and ISK investment doesn't make me higher level than you along with my experience, then why the hell is there personal investment in this game? might as well play call of duty and be a mindless gun slinging grunt like you. Gallente Pure Blood** Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3806	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:39:00 - [149] - Quote Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Shattered Mirage D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 343	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:41:00 - [150] - Quote Funny how he ignores everything I said.... It all must be true then, no?

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 467	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:17:00 - [151] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears don't bring me into this scrub... im done arguing and debating the non-existing balance.. especially with biased pricks like you. the biggest thing going against you is that you are a tank driver yet your advocating tanks being nerfed even more so that even complete retards like you can solo your own tank by yourself with militia AV. your a giant contradiction and will never have any respect from anyone other than lukeboy and the others who have stated before that they want this to be call of duty without vehicles. WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, as despite your thoughts, makes me quite possibly one of the only people who's opinion matters, as unlike 90% of the community, I have seen everything from all points of views, as I am quite literally everything in this game, from Heavies and Scouts, to Assault and Logistics, to even Tanker and AV. The fact that you are a tanker without PRO AV and call me a biased prick at the same time is laughably pathetic, as anyone with half a brain on these forums would be laughing at you by now. You are actually a walking definition of hypocrisy, considering that you tell people "HTFU you aren't a tanker, so your opinions don't matter", yet you are the first one to jump when people tell you "HTFU you aren't AV, so your opinions don't matter. No MLT AV with no skills invested have ever soloed a well fitted tank, and I have never once said nor implied the following: Tanks should be nerfed AV should be buffed I should solo with MLT AV "HTFU your opinions don't matter" (except to counter the arguments of those who have said similar) The fact that you imply that I have said any of this is dumbfounding, as that would mean you don't even completely read and comprehend what I am saying, heck I even had a post of you admitting to this yourself. I have done literally nothing but try to explain things from the view of AV, yet some people still said "HTFU lukeoboy you aren't a real tanker because you side with AV". Well now that this argument was thrown out the window by your own video (which we've yet to see), you have absolutely nothing to counter my truth. The respect the community has won't matter, as if something is wrong it's wrong, no matter how many people support the contrary. And if you ask people who know me in-game, they will tell you just how un-biased I truly am. And as far as my tank and your tank goes Mine>Yours. I won't explain why in this post, because I want you to have some time to think about this before you talk about my "**** Fit" TL;DR: I am quite literally one of the most non-biased person this forum has and will ever see like I said, im not getting dragged into this.... the fact that you side with av in the non-existing balance makes you the biggest contradiction in the game, and yes we have proof that you want tanks to be non existing.... your posts say it all... when we want a buff, you come here saying no we should be nerfed because you can solo us. and about your tank... there is no possibly way you know more about tanks in your mere 4 months than someone like me who has used tanks for over a year. every point you make makes you look weaker and more stupid. tanks are the biggest joke in the game next to dropships, if my SP and ISK investment doesn't make me higher level than you along with my experience, then why the hell is there personal investment in this game? might as well play call of duty and be a mindless gun slinging grunt like you. XD This account is an alt, made back in June when I decided not to be amarr anymore And yeah you've yet confront anything I've said and now instead of admitting defeat you resort to ad hominiem. Pathetic My post was 100% correct, and you cannot supply a single post where I've stated that I want tanks to be nerfed. You on the other hand have still yet to use PRO AV, so yeah by your own logic your opinoin doesn't matter My Tank>Your Tanks Both of our tanks are great, except mine is 400k, and your's is what 2Mil? If I lose a tank, I can run 1-2 matches in ambush to re-make that ISK, you need to spend an entire day in ambush to make up for yours. You use the most expensive possible, and I use the cheapest gear possible. At the end of the day both get the job done, but I suffer a far less hit and can have way much more fun Fun>Anything in this game So by that standard, My tank>Your tank. If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 468	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:38:00 - [152] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? Good for your :D You aren't biased If you can't solo me w/MLT AV, or if you get shot by infantry, it's your fault -Tanker's Logic (New ones everyday!)
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:48:00 - [153] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? Maybe it's because he only uses horrible fits and he knows when he gets soloed the person probably has 3 times the SP in AV then he does in tanks. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 168	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:50:00 - [154] - Quote like I said, im not getting dragged into this.... the fact that you side with av in the non-existing balance makes you the biggest contradiction in the game, and yes we have proof that you want tanks to be non existing.... your posts say it all... when we want a buff, you come here saying no we should be nerfed because you can solo us. and about your tank... there is no possibly way you know more about tanks in your mere 4 months than someone like me who has used tanks for over a year. every point you make makes you look weaker and more stupid. tanks are the biggest joke in the game next to dropships, if my SP and ISK investment doesn't make me higher level than you along with my experience, then why the hell is there personal investment in this game? might as well play call of duty and be a mindless gun slinging grunt like you.[/quote] XD This account is an alt, made back in June when I decided not to be amarr anymore And yeah you've yet confront anything I've said and now instead of admitting defeat you resort to ad hominiem. Pathetic My post was 100% correct, and you cannot supply a single post where I've stated that I want tanks to be nerfed. You on the other hand have still yet to use PRO AV, so yeah by your own logic your opinoin doesn't matter My Tank>Your Tanks Both of our tanks get the job done, except mine is 400k, and your's is what 2Mil? If I lose a tank, I can run 1-2 matches in ambush to re-make that ISK, you need to spend an entire day in ambush to make up for yours. You use the most expensive possible, and I use the cheapest gear possible. At the end of the day both get the job done, but I suffer a far less hit and can have way much more fun Fun>Anything in this game So by that standard, My tank>Your tank. Oops: forgot something; post a pick of your AV skill sheet, because anyone with an MLT swarm can make it look like a wiki swarm if I ask you to pull it out. But If I pull out a maddy, it will say it's a maddy Untill I have a picture, I'll refuse to believe that you have PRO swarms.[/quote] How is getting insta popped getting the job done. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 468	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:53:00 - [155] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? Maybe it's because he only uses horrible fits and he knows when he gets soloed the person probably has 3 times the SP in AV then he does in tanks. 3 mil in vehicles, 1.5 mill in AV I was a tanker long before I was PRO AV Get your facts straight I am everything AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more This is the setup of those who are unbiased
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1568	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:17:00 - [156] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So i pretty much skipped the past 6 pages because it goes somehting like this Vehicle pilots use logic and AV are crying because they cannot solo vehicles anymore with an I WIN button Big problem is these AV scrubs are basing everything off of scrubby pub matches, PC is where it should be balanced, I play PC everyday, go up against proto AV everything too in my basic tank with basic mods and its defences are simply not enough, not against proto AV because i dont have a proto tank and mods I can play pubs and maybe stomp and go 40-0 because no AV is about which isnt my problem its the enemys problem But with pubs you can play solo and come up against 2 6man squads, not your fault its lack of match making Balancing for pubs is just a bad idea since pubs is unbalanced with just 1 6man squad against randoms anyways, PC is coordinated teamwork from both sides to get an objective and win the match The vehicles and AV rebalancing may actually give vehicles a role in PC and a chance to be a game changer maybe but at least it maybe be able to hold its own and actually tank something But if it ruins pubs i couldnt care less because matchmaking is broke and i cant help it, but when team deploy comes in i will be in FW earning LP This is only the 1st set of actual nerfs that AV has recieved in over 6months of consistant buffs and i expect alot will quit AV because teamwork is an alien concept to them but will still cry when a tank is on the field wrecking ** unopposed because the infantry let them One could just as easily have summarized it the other way. For example, "Vehicle users cry because they can be killed and AV users are the reasonable ones leveling out the playing field". As far as matchmaking being broken I also disagree. I've been in more close games since 1.5 than I have been in the last few months. Especially with squad finder. It's so easy to form squads now and if someone isn't joining them and then complaining that it's unfair to be put against them then I don't know what to say to them. I also disagree with using PC to balance things. If more people play in pub matches then basing everything off of PC wouldn't represent the conditions found in most games for most people. Also if teamwork is so important why not complain that more people don't support tanks? I've seen logi jeeps keep tanks alive and multiple gunners can help take out the infantry trying to spam AV nades. You're coming off as just another elitist "I'm right and you're wrong because I just am" type of voice right now. Maybe try and consider that more than just EoN plays this game. But if your tried to summarized it that way you would look like an idiot since AV has had the upper hand for the past 6+months against all vehicles Matchmaking is broken for me, always against groups while i have randoms, if im in a group half the time i end up against randoms PC is the end game currently for anyone competitive, pubs is scrubtastic at best and just an ISK making machine, if you played PC with a vehicle you would really see how useless you are most of the time espc with the tactics of putting FG on top of towers but overall PC is proto vs proto unless you run vehicles then its basic for you Because in PC games i generally am supported, in pubs randoms dont do ** so i rely on my squad if anything but even then hard to protect a tank when the pilot cannot see past 50m anyways and all AV can whack em from 400m out no problem But i am right tho, i mean i use all vehicles and i can use all AV aswell and if vehicle pilots can use teamwork with AV why cant AV use teamwork? Do vehicle pilots have to show AV how its done?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1568	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:18:00 - [157] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? Maybe it's because he only uses horrible fits and he knows when he gets soloed the person probably has 3 times the SP in AV then he does in tanks. 3 mil in vehicles, 1.5 mill in AV I was a tanker long before I was PRO AV Get your facts straight You aint anything but a bad player
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 476	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:19:00 - [158] - Quote Vehicles have PRO weapons and PRO modules. All they need is ADV and PRO hulls I am everything AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more This is the setup of those who are unbiased
chase rowland The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 57	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:30:00 - [159] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? Maybe it's because he only uses horrible fits and he knows when he gets soloed the person probably has 3 times the SP in AV then he does in tanks. i know void. hes a vet and he has more sp then most. mostly into tanking. im not going to argue with you guys here, but i know voids fittings. hes no joke. im going to have to side with him in all of these arguments as he has the most experience. nuff said
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 476	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:33:00 - [160] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? Maybe it's because he only uses horrible fits and he knows when he gets soloed the person probably has 3 times the SP in AV then he does in tanks. 3 mil in vehicles, 1.5 mill in AV I was a tanker long before I was PRO AV Get your facts straight You aint anything but a bad player Yep, never played with or against you, so I feel really insulted At least I don't have to QQ every time my tank goes boom. And you think your a good player? Doing what? Tanking? Untill AV or an enemy tank rolls out, tanks are quite literally the easiest class in the entire game, and the giant SP sink is filled by doing what exactly? Going pew pew in a steel box with infinite ammo that's what. Scouts have to use stealth tactics and situational awareness Logi's have to keep the team alive Assualt has to coordinate and push objectives Heavies have to lead the pack during pushes LLAVs rep people and make quick transportation methods Tanks? They just spam infinite rounds at infantry until somebody decides to bring one of the only 4 (technically 6) weapons in the game that can kill them to well.. Kill them. Now I'm not gonna sit here and say tanks are useless because in the right hands they can be more than a steel box with infinite ammo, but 90% of tanks that are popped by AV were poped because when they got hit the first time, they decided to stand there and keep firing in said steel box I'm not saying tanks are complete easymode. But they surely aren't hard. That role belongs to scouts. I am everything AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more This is the setup of those who are unbiased

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 486	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:36:00 - [161] - Quote chase rowland wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: WHEN FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ALMIGHTY HAVE I EVER SAID THAT I WANT TANKS TO BE NERFED? Anyways, actually the fact that I am a tank driver who sides with AV is the best thing I have going for me currently, And I'm former AV that sides with Tanks.....what's your point? Maybe it's because he only uses horrible fits and he knows when he gets soloed the person probably has 3 times the SP in AV then he does in tanks. i know void. hes a vet and he has more sp then most. mostly into tanking. im not going to argue with you guys here, but i know voids fittings. hes no joke. im going to have to side with him in all of these arguments as he has the most experience. nuff said If he has to QQ about something being able to kill him, then yeah he's a bigger joke than lomandos running dual Nova Knives I am everything AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more This is the setup of those who are unbiased
Toby Flenderson research lab 100	Posted - 2013.10.31 18:07:00 - [162] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: One could just as easily have summarized it the other way. For example, "Vehicle users cry because they can be killed and AV users are the reasonable ones leveling out the playing field". As far as matchmaking being broken I also disagree. I've been in more close games since 1.5 than I have been in the last few months. Especially with squad finder. It's so easy to form squads now and if someone isn't joining them and then complaining that it's unfair to be put against them then I don't know what to say to them. I also disagree with using PC to balance things. If more people play in pub matches then basing everything off of PC wouldn't represent the conditions found in most games for most people. Also if teamwork is so important why not complain that more people don't support tanks? I've seen logi jeeps keep tanks alive and multiple gunners can help take out the infantry trying to spam AV nades. You're coming off as just another elitist "I'm right and you're wrong because I just am" type of voice right now. Maybe try and consider that more than just EoN plays this game. But if your tried to summarized it that way you would look like an idiot since AV has had the upper hand for the past 6+months against all vehicles Matchmaking is broken for me, always against groups while i have randoms, if im in a group half the time i end up against randoms PC is the end game currently for anyone competitive, pubs is scrubtastic at best and just an ISK making machine, if you played PC with a vehicle you would really see how useless you are most of the time espc with the tactics of putting FG on top of towers but overall PC is proto vs proto unless you run vehicles then its basic for you Because in PC games i generally am supported, in pubs randoms dont do ** so i rely on my squad if anything but even then hard to protect a tank when the pilot cannot see past 50m anyways and all AV can whack em from 400m out no problem But i am right tho, i mean i use all vehicles and i can use all AV aswell and if vehicle pilots can use teamwork with AV why cant AV use teamwork? Do vehicle pilots have to show AV how its done? You missed my point entirely. I'm implying that all that first statement said was "I'm on the vehicle side of the argument". You can't honestly say that in threads like these there is a completely one sided logical argument against AV users and the AV users do nothing but QQ about not being able to kill tanks. From what I've seen in these threads is that people generally just like to say what they think and then ignore counter arguments. Both sides. Your response to this is the same thing just reworded; "...and if you say the opposite then you're an idiot". We get it... you like tanks, but don't try to act like anyone that doesn't agree with you has no logical basis to do so. Matchmaking isn't broken for me or my fellow corp mates so I don't know what to say. That sucks for your luck? If leveling up skills isn't what makes this game addicting, I don't know what is. I'm mostly interested in leveling up my suit and improving my abilities rather than seeing who's Dust ** is bigger in PC matches against players that have months/year time under their belt and in their suit. I think that this is also true for most people in the game. PC is great for competitive players but it still caters to a smaller percent of the player base. It doesn't make sense to change things for fewer people if the majority does not agree. My theory for why vehicles aren't as effective in PC is because in PC people care about winning more. Tanks are huge threats in pub matches but not every blueberry cares enough about a victory to put millions into AV just to ensure that a tank doesn't steal it from them unopposed. In PC, people care a lot more about the victory rather than the SP they get regardless of the outcome so something like a tank must be dealt with immediately to remove the enemy advantage from the field. It should be hard to protect a tank if people are dedicated to destroying it. Heavies need a logi to back them up and keep them healed while they take hits. Assaults can't go forever without the occasional nanohive. Tanks need support too and I think the best type is a logi jeep or a sniper. People don't consider snipers to be support roles most of the time but when I sniped I just looked for SL and FG users while our tank handled the rest of the infantry. It should take more than one person in a tank to accomplish the destruction that a tank can currently cause, whether it be another gunner or infantry (snipers, assault, logi) to protect the tank. There are ways to help a tank, you just have to have dedicated players. Complaining about blueberries not helping you is not exactly exclusive to the tanker role. AV does require teamwork unless the single person is completely specced/dedicated/skilled in the role. This also applies to tanks. I think it's a little silly to suggest that the problem here is that the enemies don't need to be a team rather than say friendlies just need to support their team. The burden of your success should be on you and your team. Try getting a logi jeep or other tanks to back you up. Or snipers. Just try it.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1477	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:08:00 - [163] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Gloomy Cobra wrote: i never really understood why ccp made the forge guns really strong agianst armor...Its based on electric energy, which should do more damage on shileds than armor yet that not true..... Oh well. Btw really good post, i enjoyed reading it :) Exactly my point. In chrome, forge was for shield and swarms were for armor. Now both have an efficiency rating towards armor. WTF CCP please revert the efficiencies. Heavy Laser and Heavy Plasma Cannon will both be good against shields. Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 490	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:12:00 - [164] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Gloomy Cobra wrote: i never really understood why ccp made the forge guns really strong against armor...Its based on electric energy, which should do more damage on shields than armor yet that not true..... Oh well. Btw really good post, i enjoyed reading it :) Exactly my point. In chrome, forge was for shield and swarms were for armor. Now both have an efficiency rating towards armor. WTF CCP please revert the efficiencies. Heavy Laser and Heavy Plasma Cannon will both be good against shields. Good point, that's probably why CCP decided to change the Forge Gun's effectiveness to armor, because they began working on the Heavy PLC and Heavy LR I just wish CCP had told people why they changed the FGs efficiency, that way we wouldn't have so many people moaning and groaning about it. Or they just wanted to give Gunnlogi pilots a break. I am everything AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more This is the setup of those who are unbiased
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1169	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:31:00 - [165] - Quote Atiim wrote: Vehicles have PRO weapons and PRO modules. All they need is ADV and PRO hulls LOL We don't have PRO modules. See, I told you you're not a tanker. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2022	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:33:00 - [166] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Vehicles have PRO weapons and PRO modules. All they need is ADV and PRO hulls LOL We don't have PRO modules. See, I told you you're not a tanker. we don't have proto modules or hulls, we have proto turrets... modules are categorized as follows: Basic, enhanced, complex. there are no advanced or proto modules, only proto turrets. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1169	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:34:00 - [167] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Vehicles have PRO weapons and PRO modules. All they need is ADV and PRO hulls LOL We don't have PRO modules. See, I told you you're not a tanker. we don't have proto modules or hulls, we have proto turrets... modules are categorized as follows: Basic, enhanced, complex. there are no advanced or proto modules, only proto turrets. They'll be basic, enhanced and complex when the vehicle pass comes. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 490	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:34:00 - [168] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Vehicles have PRO weapons and PRO modules. All they need is ADV and PRO hulls LOL We don't have PRO modules. See, I told you you're not a tanker. You sure? Active scanners, CPU/PG enhancers, Damage control units, etc I didn't say you had all PRO modules And Void Echo has a video of me in my tank. Point moot. I am everything AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 490	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:36:00 - [169] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Vehicles have PRO weapons and PRO modules. All they need is ADV and PRO hulls LOL We don't have PRO modules. See, I told you you're not a tanker. we don't have proto modules or hulls, we have proto turrets... modules are categorized as follows: Basic, enhanced, complex. there are no advanced or proto modules, only proto turrets. refer to ^^^ I am everything AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more -HAND
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2022	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:37:00 - [170] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Vehicles have PRO weapons and PRO modules. All they need is ADV and PRO hulls LOL We don't have PRO modules. See, I told you you're not a tanker. You sure? Active scanners, CPU/PG enhancers, Damage control units, etc I didn't say you had all PRO modules And Void Echo has a video of me in my tank. Point moot. just owning a tank doesn't make you a tanker, your far from being one. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."



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