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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
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Posted - 2013.10.30 00:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Takahiros 'partner' will be here shortly to reply 10 times to each individual comment from anyone who isn't supporting the HAV campaign ... you wait n see lol ... |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 00:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank.
Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 00:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all.
I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys.
Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 00:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
KenKaniff69 wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! tis funny you say this considering every match there is an IA forge or Wyrkomi swarm launcher no matter the game mode or what the BS matchmaking system decides it wants to do.
That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally ! |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 00:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:So post patch proto swarms will do 1,320 plus a bonus 50% (armor bonus plus proficiency) gives you 1,980 just shy of the 2,000 needed to pop the tank now let's you actually have what's it called I forget the name oh yea skills and you get the weak point bonus you exceed the 2,000 threshold by far and now lets throw in some damage mods can you possibly refute that the proto swarm won't pop the tank. Are you people still whining about the effect a proto weapon has on militia and standard equipment ... go take a duvolle up against a militia or standard dropsuit n see what happens ! No I think it's perfectly acceptable for Proto to destroy militia and STD as long as we have access to Proto, It's just Arkena said it would be impossible to pop a militia tank with 2 proto swarms proficiency V so I was proving him wrong that's all. I can't be arsed reading back ... but I think Arkena was arguing against Ken who said a militia swarm could down a militia HAV in 2 volleys. Edit ... also the noobs I meet in pub matches don't have access to proto suits either ! ... Don't argue about proto swarms damaging current HAVs ... campaign for a speedy introduction of proto vehicles ! Edit 2 : Bed time anyhow ... have fun o7 I want a Proto nerf / removal because it's quicker then the introduction of pro vehicles, once pro vehicles come in you can have your once OP swarms back.
I'd be happy with that ... seems counter productive to balance all tiers of one thing against just the basic level of something else ... whatever it is you're putting on the scales ... once the rest is added you've got to RE-balance the other side ! |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 00:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
KenKaniff69 wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:
That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally !
Ever hear of drop uplinks?
Yeah cos people are gonna go for the option of leaving that threat alive that's been raping them for insta-deaths n just run to the other side of the map to drop an uplink cos people are tolerant like that ... NO they're gonna spend some points in swarms or grenades n get some vengeance. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
KenKaniff69 wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:KenKaniff69 wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:
That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally !
Ever hear of drop uplinks? Yeah cos people are gonna go for the option of leaving that threat alive that's been raping them for insta-deaths n just run to the other side of the map to drop an uplink cos people are tolerant like that ... NO they're gonna spend some points in swarms or grenades n get some vengeance. It is a 50 ton piece of reinforced polycrystaline steel you know...that suffers from poor hit detection, horrible radar, and lack of vehicle locks. If throw a drop uplink on a building and one guy spawns with proto AV, the show is over.
I didn't know ... haven't seen that weight stat or what the hulls made of ... I know there were polycrystalline plates back in the day.
Poor hit detection and horrible radar are not vehicle specific complaints.
There is no 'lack of vehicle locks' ... vehicle locks have never been confirmed by CCP so what you're seeing is the 'working as intended' open access vehicles. Besides, you're getting the ability to not fit turrets which will remove the seats with them (confirmed).
So putting an uplink in a strategic elevated position (only accessible by dropship) and using proto AV against basic vehicles is your answer to my reasoning why there is proto AV in every battle ... then you've lost the train of our discussion and I bid you good night o7 |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
552
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 01:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:(Quote) A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks (Quote)
fair enough ... didn't completely register that bit.
I'm off anyway, g.night o7 |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
553
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 12:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:
That would be because in every match there is at least one HAV that would just sit there spamming infinate ammo at spawn points ... infantry have had to adapt or die ... literally !
So infantry can spawn elsewhere with swarms and start sending them towards the tank. And don't you start talking about infantry having to adapt or die. Tankers have had to do that through 5 or 6 builds now, and we're apparently still going strong, due to the amount of complaining infantry is doing about us. Ever wonder why that is? Maybe it's because tankers are more intelligent; more aware of their surroundings, and strengths and weaknesses, when to engage and when to break contact, and how to fit their vehicle? Tanks are pathetically easy to destroy. I have 0 problem going after a tank with somebody to make sure we get the kill.
Out of context much !?
No infantry CAN'T spawn elsewhere with swarms ... because they are not skilled in swarms that would even scratch the strength of HAVs we used to have.
THAT is why infantry HAD to adapt ... and THAT is why there is now "proto skilled AV infantry in every match".
If you can't follow a conversation properly, don't reply to my posts ! |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
553
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 12:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Toby Flenderson wrote:KenKaniff69 wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:KenKaniff69 wrote:
I have had several encounters with resistance running along with reps only to have 4 lai dai's kill me from behind. I was a 5700 armor. AV weapons tend to act very inconsistent compare to prior builds. I have seen lai dai's one shot soma's on more occasions than I have seen them do 1k damage or less. Swarms are the same way. There are times where a packed AV grenade does 1800 damage to my tank, even though it claims to only do 1300. Once again, going of what i have noticed as the person who has gone through half a million isk in their mercenary experience and seen it all.
Well 4 Lai Dai at 1,720 would be 6,880 base and so 9,180 with the 1.35 armo efficiency. This means that your resistance/reps would have to stop about 3,480 damage in the time it took the 4 Lai Dai to hit you or you're toast. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're implying that the main issue is the weak spot multiplier being glitched to all parts of the tank. If this were the case then the 4 Lai Dai would do 12,539 damage. But you survived the first 3 Lai Dai which would do 9,401 with the glitch which bumps the amount of damage you'd have compensate for through resistance/reps up to 3,700 in the time it takes to throw 3 Lai Dai. Now 3,700 is the minimum damage needed to "avoid" if you assume that the tank survives at 1hp (in reality it could be surviving at higher hp). Are you modules/skills high enough to pull off that kind of survivability? It seems like a tall order but to support this glitch theory I think you'd need to be able to pull that off for the numbers to work. Again, I'm not calling you out or anything. Just trying to reconcile my skepticism using your experience as a tanker and my experience using AV. It's rare I actually find someone to have a real discussion with about this  ty for being rational. It seems that way more times than not as the entire tank is a weak spot. AV grenades seem to range so wide in their damage outputs and there has to be something beyond the weak spot, efficiency, and resistances. Perhaps there is a code glitch or something along those lines. CCP would be the only one who can answer that question and they seem to to take very little on player feedback in regards to vehicles and AV. Fair enough. I admit that I have thought that as well but just threw it up to ranges in tank armor. Then again, I'm not inside the tank to see the results so I will take your word for it. Thanks for helping me understand the other side of the argument. In general how do you feel about the vehicle changes? I've seen nerfs to AV and changes to vehicles and I know it's premature to say one will be superior over the other but it just looks like AV is reduced greatly. Are the vehicle changes a nerf as well in your opinion?
In relation to this weakspot problem ... Is it possible the splash damage of grenades is hitting the weakspot ? Maybe that's then being calculated as a secondary damage on top of the direct hit, so you're effectively getting 2 direct hits for the price of one.
I wonder if the devs could look into this ? As it's not really something that can be tested ingame. |
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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
553
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Posted - 2013.10.30 13:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Needless Sacermendor wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:(Quote) A wiyrkomi swarm launcher with damage mods and proficiency V cannot even two shot one of the unfitted militia tanks (Quote) fair enough ... didn't completely register that bit. I'm off anyway, g.night o7 Quoting without context. The math was disproving the whining of 'WTF IT 2 SHOTS ME'
My appologies ... as I'd said previously, I thought you were debating something else, but it was late and I was going to bed, so I just left it after he 'supposedly' quoted what you said.
Again appologies for taking his word. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
555
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 22:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Atiim wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:Wait correct me if im wrong but the best way to use the swarm launcher now is to do taliban style ambushes  ? It's always been that way. AV is only OP in the eyes of QQers like Void and Tankashiro because they are biased, and have never gone up against people with AV that don't hide in the redline. And now AV is on the chop block because CCP has to many buckets of thier tears aww, a av QQ'r that gets mad when he can't solo a good fit tank, how cute Wouldn't be problem if it took more than 1 man to operate a tank. But it doesn't, and it creates an obvious numerical advantage when you cannot do so.
Ahh we've reached that stage in every HAV/AV thread were they start whining about how much isk and sp it costs and how it should take multiple people to take them out, even though they earnt all that sp by spamming infinate ammo at unskilled infantry in a easy mode steel box invulnerable to all but a few weapons ... aww they have it so hard ! |
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