I don't know about you or how you think, but I don't see this as punishment to FW people at all. We are being rewarded with something far greater than just mere ISK here. We will be given Loyalty Points which will go towards purchasing faction-specific gear. The faction-specific gear is something that can only be acquired (for now) from faction warfare for the side that you choose and they are exactly like the proto-level weapons but with lower CPU/PG requirements which is something a lot of proto folks love to have for their suits (especially us scouts). And unlike the pub matches or PC battles, our rewards and standings grow proportional to the time and effort we put into building our relations with the factions. That alone is something far more rewarding than mere pocket change.

So: Friendly Fire. It'll be great to introduce this to FW as it forces people to play better and stop merely relying on the lack of FF to spam grenades, OBs, etc and decimate only the enemy.

However there are 4 associated aspects to consider:
1) Griefing by intentional TKing
2) Griefing by partial damage to allies (e.g. via EMP grenades) leaving them vulnerable to enemy kills
3) Griefing by suiciding yourself (e.g. in front of an HMG or tank)
4) Collateral damage (i.e. accidental TKing)

The CCP proposed method on punishing TKing directly deals with 1) however allows an exploit/workaround via 2) and 3) and leads to harse punishment for inevitable accidental TKs via 4).


I have an idea for how to deal with FF incidents that I feel would be an improvement on the current offering.

a) all FF results in a milita standing decrease
b) the standing decrease is immediate and = to the rank of the char who died * 10
c) TK 'assists' are counted at a 50% rate (as per the WP reward for kill assists)
d) reaching 0 standing results in instant kick from match and 24hr ban

This results in a standing penalty equivalent to the importance [to the NPC militia] of the person who has been killed. You'll still have to deal with intentional TKing, but griefers will quickly burn through their standings, whilst also having a low impact when suiciding too.


Supplemental: Team Kick Vote

Separately there should be a Team Kick Vote functionality, in order to kick known griefers. 6 votes and you're kicked from the match. You can add also players to a permakick/dislike/block list in order to reduce being put into the same match as them. Likelihood decreases further as more players [in that team] have that individual 'blocked'.

I understand that people want ISK for fighting but I think that LP only is good. It creates an opening for player driven content. Corps should be paying their mercs for doing FW and the high cost to individuals is also a good thing. LP only payouts make players create contracts for payment and keeps the riff-raff out of FW because they will be going to win not to get paided for showing up.

Public matches should be for profit, FW for your government and PC for glory. No ISK payment creates content by forcing merc to use the community to get paid instead of NPC money printers.

I see what you did there. You place that little disclaimer of yours of "being to tired" to explain the problems so you won't have to answer to the challenge.

I admit that I sometimes do that with respec discussions, but if I'm pressed to accept any challenge to explain myself then I become a kind gentleman and rise to the challenge.

Now be prepared to accept this challenge and rise to it.

What is wrong with the proposed factional system posted by CCP Foxfour that needs to be adjusted before implementation and how would you propose to change it? Please include numbers if needed.

Not rewarding players with ISK for participating in faction warfare means that it will be impossible to have a faction warfare only corp. Unless they buy Aurum Gear only of course.

So get an eve corp to fund you

Very quckly wanted to go on record that I do NOT think the LP store reward changes should be released until a player trade option / market exists. I agree it risks a huge damaging impact on participation levels, and I will be in talks with CCP about this about what options exist here.

Very quckly wanted to go on record that I do NOT think the LP store reward changes should be released until a player trade option / market exists. I agree it risks a huge damaging impact on participation levels, and I will be in talks with CCP about this about what options exist here.

You can't transfer funds between games.

Very quckly wanted to go on record that I do NOT think the LP store reward changes should be released until a player trade option / market exists. I agree it risks a huge damaging impact on participation levels, and I will be in talks with CCP about this about what options exist here.

well then CCP should get on that then

I allready wrote my suggestion. Daily allowance isk transfer between FW eve/dust players based on standings. Or they can just open the floodgates since people like me have more money than I'll ever know what to do with anyways.

CCP already confirmed that they will allow such transfer in the future. Except there will be a heavy-ass tax on any ISK transfers coming from Eve to Dust.

I understand that people want ISK for fighting but I think that LP only is good. It creates an opening for player driven content. Corps should be paying their mercs for doing FW and the high cost to individuals is also a good thing. LP only payouts make players create contracts for payment and keeps the riff-raff out of FW because they will be going to win not to get paided for showing up.

Public matches should be for profit, FW for your government and PC for glory. No ISK payment creates content by forcing merc to use the community to get paid instead of NPC money printers.

I'm a mercenary. I won't fight if you don't pay me when the job is done. You need the LP market or trade for ISK when you implement the changes, not just LP with no isk. I don't want to be wasting ADV suits getting killed by blues who dont even know friendly fire is on, only to not get ISK at the end.

I wouldn't mind bringing in LP only items, but players with lots of ISK will be running full proto. It'll be interesting to watch how this plays out. I for one will be running full BPO suits to avoid loosing a tonne of ISK.

First in what should be an epic thread. Looking forward to the awesome FW changes in the pipeline

TO sum up the way I feel about these changes I will say that this will most likely turn FW into the biggest PC District owner's Noob stomping Proto Party this game has ever seen.

These changes will most likely lock new players out of FW altogether.

Just want to say......it is features like these that will distinguish dust from other fps for a long time. The only issue is actually putting all of these promised features in the game so players can actually play them.

Looking forward to these changes....the LP market sounds great and will add more depth to the game and allow for more customizations in dropsuits.

As much as I dont like friendly fire....it does seem balanced. I am disappointed that ccp actually wants griefing but it is what it is. I can see people getting pissed off and walking away from the game because some people dont care about the penalties at all. Peple will TK you if you choose to use high end proto gear and officer gear. I can also see tanks getting TKed etc.

Since when was it a good practice in game development to release something before it was ready? If something won't be sustainable until something else arrives, then it needs to be delayed so they both arrive at the same time. Game development 101. I know you guys are excited about expanding FW as am I, but you can't get ahead of yourselves.

As for supplements, I already made my point on pubs and PC is a terribly exclusive party with how few districts there are. Corp income on the other hand really shouldn't even be listed in my opinion, as right now corps have no way to get income aside from PC, which is already listed, and taxing players, which is through pubs and PC, both already listed. But that does bring up a good question, will corp tax apply to LP as well?

CCP Nullabor... I have a suggestion I think can help everyone out on this without compromising the goals your team are working towards and help guys like Aero.

Simply increase ISK payout in public contracts by 33% until the market hits then drop the ISK payout to its current baseline rate. Is this a viable option for the way the Dev team wants to build the game?