DUST Search - Announcement:Factional Contract Changes Introduction

Avinash Decker wrote:

CCP Nullarbor wrote:

Woo lots of feedback so far, thanks guys. We'll need a bit of time to discuss all the comments with the team. A couple of early tidbits though, basically stuff we have already discussed internally.

Friendly Fire
I can see us also doing a max TK per battle as well as the standings penalties. That was actually in the original design but we didn't include it in the notes here. I think of all the numbers and mechanics, the friendly fire penalties will be the area that undergoes the most change based on player feedback and just how well it plays out once we go live. We are acutely aware of how important it is to get the FF penalties in pubs correct.

EVE Orbitals
On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel.

No ISK
Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable.

With that all said, we are talking about this stuff early in the development and we're very happy to have out minds changed so let's keep the discussion going.

o7

What about players that don't try to team kill , but activity damage their teammates shields and their health close to zero? Or deliberately get in the way so your teammates kill you?

How about once at the end of every one or two weeks you get isk based on your performance? Like I won 30 battles and received 5-10k wps at the end of the week (or more) I maybe receive about 1 million isk .


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133679	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:26:00 - [1] - Quote Hello and welcome to what I am sure is going to be an interesting collection of threads. Over the last few months we have been hinting at some changes we would like to make to factional contracts. What we are going to do now is share with you some of our designs we have drawn up for Factional Contracts and get your feedback on it all. But before we dive into what the changes and additions are, I want to go over some basic information first: While we are not ready to give a release date for this we will say work has begun. Not all of this stuff will hit at the same time. While we hope to get it all out as soon as possible it will be introduced over multiple releases. The information here is not final and we are open to discussing and changing things; hence why we are posting this here. The Goals Factional contracts are an area of the game that everyone can participate in that offers something different to what can be found in public contracts. Our goal with factional contracts is to offer something that is unique in DUST and that you guys, the players, will look at and say "I could play public contracts, or I could play factional contracts." The idea is not to create something that you progress from public contracts into and never go back to public contracts. Additionally, we wanted to increase the visibility of DUST's impact in EVE factional warfare from within DUST. We want to show players what effect each battle they fight has on the warzone and what overall effect they are making. The current link between DUST and EVE for factional contracts is already very strong; we just need to shine a light in both DUST and EVE on how. Recently, you could actually see this effect in practice. EVE pilots in the Gallente militia were making a big push to take Old Man Star, but the recent push from Caldari on the ground made that very difficult for them and the Gallente militia struggled to take the system. So as noted earlier, we want to make factional contracts unique within DUST and we want to emphasize the link that already exists. Faction contracts are a great choice for this as it also allows us to create a different variation on play in a public contract that isn't as restrictive as some other modes such as planetary conquest. General Overview So now that you know why we are looking at factional contracts and our general goals, you next question would likely be "What are we looking to change?" Friendly fire will be enabled. You will gain standings to corporations for winning matches. You will lose standings for team killing players. The higher your standings the higher your reward. Losing too many standings will remove you from factional contracts. Replace ISK payouts with loyalty point payouts. Add a loyalty point store with unique items that cost both ISK and LP. Orbital strikes from EVE only, no warbarge strike. Add salvage based on what players used in the match. New tab for the end of match screen focusing on factional contracts. Thats some crazy stuff right? I have broken the topics up and gone into more detail in several posts so that the feedback can be more organized and better responded to. So I would ask that if you are going to respond you try and respond in the appropriate thread. This thread is for general feedback as well as some of the smaller changes. Threads and their topics: This thread - General discussion and little things Standings - Discussion on how standings for Factional Contracts will work, what they effect, and how boosters affect them. Loyalty Points and Loyalty Store - How do you get loyalty points, what will be for sale in the loyalty store, how boosters affect loyalty points. Match Changes - Changes coming to the matches themselves With that out of the way, lets get this ball rolling. Faction Corporation Changes Right now districts in Factional Warfare are owned by the following four corporations: Federal Defense Union 24th Imperial Crusade State Protectorate Tribal Liberation Force This is fine and all but those are the militia corporations that EVE players join and fly around with. They generally speaking have nothing really to do with ground fighting. For slightly lore reasons, some gameplay reasons behind the scenes, and some future reasons we are changing this around a bit. When you join factional contracts you will now be hired by one of these four corporations: Imperial Guard: The personal guard of the ruler of the Amarr Empire are drawn from the finest troops the Imperial military can offer. While its core duties revolve around safeguarding the occupant of the Imperial Throne, the Imperial Guard is a large and very well-equipped body. The Guard can project impressive force across New Eden with fanatical devotion to its orders. State Peacekeepers: The Caldari State required little in the way of ground troops until the reconquest of Caldari Prime and the war over Black Rise. Previously, the megacorporations saw to the security and peace of their own ground territories. The emergency conditions of the occupation of Caldari Prime called for the formation of the State Peacekeepers, a force that is now established as an arm of the Caldari military. Federal Marines: The Federal Marines have a long, proud history of serving the Gallente Federation in space and on planetary bodies. They are among the elite troops of the Federal military and typically at the forefront when the Gallente Federation goes to the extreme of intervening militarily in planetary conflicts across New Eden. Republic Command: Republic Command is something of an oddity in a new order where the Minmatar tribes wield considerable power. In large part the Minmatar military has become fragmented among the tribes but a rump central command remains. The Republic Command has managed to retain control over those units that reported directly to its military council, and the elite nature of many of these forces has allowed the generals of the Command to retain significant influence. The four above corporations will soon be the o... Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 2905	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:32:00 - [2] - Quote First in what should be an epic thread. Looking forward to the awesome FW changes in the pipeline CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics @CCP_Logibro


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2810	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:48:00 - [3] - Quote So while we are already under way implementing the core of these changes, a lot of the specifics are still up for debate so we want to hear concise and reasoned feedback on everything. Please take the time to chew on this for a bit, ask questions if it's not clear then let us know where we might run into problems and why. Looking forward to hearing all the comments. Cheers.


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 2911	Posted - 2013.10.18 18:19:00 - [4] - Quote Panoscape wrote: Once someone totally looses their standings and gets booted out of FW, is there a way for that person to get back in? Could it be like a cool down period of say, a month? Then they get a few loyalty points so they can turn over a new leaf. But, if they don't then the small size of the gifted loyalty points will be used up and he'll be kicked out for another month. See the Standings info thread. There's a 24h cooldown before they can start participating in faction contracts again. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics @CCP_Logibro


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133700	Posted - 2013.10.18 18:29:00 - [5] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: So while we are already under way implementing the core of these changes, a lot of the specifics are still up for debate so we want to hear concise and reasoned feedback on everything. Please take the time to chew on this for a bit, ask questions if it's not clear then let us know where we might run into problems and why. Looking forward to hearing all the comments. Cheers. If all someone is doing is playing FW and not getting any ISK, all they're going to do is hemorrhage ISK, but they'll have loyalty points. What exactly could you get with LP? Would I be able to replace a full tank with LP? Not at this time, once the secondary market is in and you can sell your LP items for ISK then yes. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133700	Posted - 2013.10.18 18:30:00 - [6] - Quote BursegSardaukar wrote: These changes do sound awesome. I did post a request in the matchmaking thread, and have a larger question that doesn't seem to be addressed: Will there be a way for Dust mercs to attack a specific district, creating the match contract themselves? For example, if a side knows that Old Man Star is being fought over heavily, will there be a way to constantly attack all the open districts? DUST players targeting specific systems is something we are looking into, but will not make it for this iteration. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133700	Posted - 2013.10.18 18:30:00 - [7] - Quote Panoscape wrote: Once someone totally looses their standings and gets booted out of FW, is there a way for that person to get back in? Could it be like a cool down period of say, a month? Then they get a few standing points so they can turn over a new leaf. But, if they don't then the small size of the gifted standing points will be used up and he'll be kicked out for another month. For now it's a timer, probably around the 24 hour mark. So once kicked from FW they will have to wait 24 hours before being able to get back in. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2813	Posted - 2013.10.19 07:27:00 - [8] - Quote Woo lots of feedback so far, thanks guys. We'll need a bit of time to discuss all the comments with the team. A couple of early tidbits though, basically stuff we have already discussed internally. Friendly Fire I can see us also doing a max TK per battle as well as the standings penalties. That was actually in the original design but we didn't include it in the notes here. I think of all the numbers and mechanics, the friendly fire penalties will be the area that undergoes the most change based on player feedback and just how well it plays out once we go live. We are acutely aware of how important it is to get the FF penalties in pubs correct. EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel. No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable. With that all said, we are talking about this stuff early in the development and we're very happy to have out minds changed so let's keep the discussion going. o7


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2816	Posted - 2013.10.19 12:44:00 - [9] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: Accidental Leak? Quote: EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel. Local in DUST has been delayed for a while now.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2816	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:18:00 - [10] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: but they'll show up in Eve local, which will give a big hint that things are going down somewhere. Which might be okay, I guess, but i was expecting beacons, not local spikes :) That's fine, we want to be showing activity in DUST when it happens. We are more concerned about DUST accounts being used to dig up intel for EVE.



CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2817	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:04:00 - [11] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable. Please look at this whole post. Who are you to tell us what game modes we should play to be considered having a "healthy lifestyle" in Dust? Isn't this supposed to be a sandbox? Your "good reasons" to remove the ISK penalty is punishing people who only do FW with an ISK sink? I am part of a corp that has been focused on FW since it was introduced in EVE. This is all we do. Now you're telling me in order to participate in FW I'm going to have to play pub matches for these randomly selected corps like Blood Raiders and Sansha's Nation? And while I'm fighting for these corps, my faction that I truly care about could be losing a district in FW that I otherwise would of been able to defend? I'm sorry Nullarbor, you're going to have to come up with a lot better reasoning than that. And look, I see your argument of "we still want people playing public matches" and that's great! But you can't FORCE us to play public matches. Why not instead have public matches pay more ISK while FW matches pay less ISK and LP. So basically Public Matches: Lots of ISK payout, no LP payout Faction Warfare: Small, but still there, ISK payout. LP payout. That would give people a reason to play public matches over FW without FORCING people to. FORCE being the key word. And again, as many have said, I'm fine with the removal of ISK from factional contracts if you gave us another way to make ISK that doesn't take time away that I could be spending defending my faction, like a player market where I can sell LP and salvage. But until then, FORCING us to play public matches is absolutely unacceptable. As I said we expect specialists will exist in the game, but that won't be sustainable until the player market comes online. Until then we're not compromising on our big picture plan, so you'll need to supplement it with pubs / PC / corp income etc


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2817	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:07:00 - [12] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Also in terms of team kills, I know there is no way to tell between an intentional TK and an accidental TK, but it really shouldn't matter. If you are TKing at all you are a liability to your team and should be punished (unless of course you are "TKing" someone who has already TKed to defend yourself"). Yeah it will suck for the person who gets too many accidental TKs and gets suspended from his faction for a long length of time, but that will teach him to be more careful. We will have a forgive option to cover accidental where the victim agrees it was an accident. I kinda like the suggestion about no TK penalty for squad mates as well. Will discuss that with the team.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2820	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:33:00 - [13] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: As I said we expect specialists will exist in the game, but that won't be sustainable until the player market comes online. Until then we're not compromising on our big picture plan, so you'll need to supplement it with pubs / PC / corp income etc Since when was it a good practice in game development to release something before it was ready? If something won't be sustainable until something else arrives, then it needs to be delayed so they both arrive at the same time. Game development 101. I know you guys are excited about expanding FW as am I, but you can't get ahead of yourselves. As for supplements, I already made my point on pubs and PC is a terribly exclusive party with how few districts there are. Corp income on the other hand really shouldn't even be listed in my opinion, as right now corps have no way to get income aside from PC, which is already listed, and taxing players, which is through pubs and PC, both already listed. But that does bring up a good question, will corp tax apply to LP as well? It won't be too far behind, and experience tells me you guys will complain but manage just fine until the player market is rolled out. We could delay FW until everything is ready by that seems like a worse idea. No taxation on LP, corps do not have an LP wallet.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2823	Posted - 2013.10.19 16:15:00 - [14] - Quote Avinash Decker wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Woo lots of feedback so far, thanks guys. We'll need a bit of time to discuss all the comments with the team. A couple of early tidbits though, basically stuff we have already discussed internally. Friendly Fire I can see us also doing a max TK per battle as well as the standings penalties. That was actually in the original design but we didn't include it in the notes here. I think of all the numbers and mechanics, the friendly fire penalties will be the area that undergoes the most change based on player feedback and just how well it plays out once we go live. We are acutely aware of how important it is to get the FF penalties in pubs correct. EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel. No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable. With that all said, we are talking about this stuff early in the development and we're very happy to have out minds changed so let's keep the discussion going. o7 What about players that don't try to team kill , but activity damage their teammates shields and their health close to zero? Or deliberately get in the way so your teammates kill you? How about once at the end of every one or two weeks you get isk based on your performance? Like I won 30 battles and received 5-10k wps at the end of the week (or more) I maybe receive about 1 million isk . This is a good point and something we have discussed already. Whether we should be tracking kills, damage done or maybe ISK destroyed. Kills are simple for now in that they can also be forgiven and are easy to track and explain to players. Flux grenading your whole just before a big skirmish is pretty lame though, so we'll keep chewing on that problem.