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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Weyjarke
Severasse Marines Severasse Militarized Mining Union
0
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Posted - 2013.10.19 04:46:00 -
[121] - Quote
OH MY GOD. FRiendly fire turned on! Will be super lame when you get run over in your proto suit fitting by some derp in a jeep on your team buuuuut, at least that will fix when premades clusterfuck you with grenade launchers in a building point cap. Super excited to hear about the new comes. I just wish we could fight rogue drones already! |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
518
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Posted - 2013.10.19 05:32:00 -
[122] - Quote
These changes sound fun and I am definitely looking forward to their implementation, but I do have a small concern though(this may have already been posted, forgive me if it has).
Since Faction Contracts will only give Loyalty Points instead of ISK, FW runners are going to have a hard time actually making a profit. And having to grind dozens of public contracts just to pay back the possibly expensive suits you lost is not the ideal way to get people into FW in my opinion. Do you have any plans to add a secondary market before/alongside/soon after the FW update is released? A lot of non-FW people would love to have a secondary market too. |
Levithunder
Butt Hurt Try Hards
113
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Posted - 2013.10.19 06:01:00 -
[123] - Quote
Everything sounds great love the idea of : -friendly fire on -No isk payout only LP -no team kill spamming But I do have A problem with the faction level rating system were it only counts if you win I think if my team is losing and I'm sacrificing my dropsuits for my glorious faction(amarr empire FTW) I should get loyalty points:)
**also I think if some how in the future corporations could have LP in the corperation wallet that would be pretty cool could award LP to outstanding corp mates or something** |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
2813
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Posted - 2013.10.19 07:27:00 -
[124] - Quote
Woo lots of feedback so far, thanks guys. We'll need a bit of time to discuss all the comments with the team. A couple of early tidbits though, basically stuff we have already discussed internally.
Friendly Fire I can see us also doing a max TK per battle as well as the standings penalties. That was actually in the original design but we didn't include it in the notes here. I think of all the numbers and mechanics, the friendly fire penalties will be the area that undergoes the most change based on player feedback and just how well it plays out once we go live. We are acutely aware of how important it is to get the FF penalties in pubs correct.
EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel.
No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable.
With that all said, we are talking about this stuff early in the development and we're very happy to have out minds changed so let's keep the discussion going.
o7
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crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1860
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Posted - 2013.10.19 07:28:00 -
[125] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Well, if this is implemented in the way outlined here, it'll be one step forward and about ten steps back.
I'm so tired of seeing so many blatant issues with every single new feature added that I don't even feel like it's worth my time explaining why this stuff is so bad anymore. This might just be the last straw for me. I can only watch this dev team blunder and stumble for so long, it's just painful to watch... almost as painful as actually playing Dust 514 is at this point. how so! listen you didn't even point out a single thing you think they do better! Well yeah, that's why I said: "I'm so tired of seeing so many blatant issues with every single new feature added that I don't even feel like it's worth my time explaining why this stuff is so bad anymore." I'm done wasting my time trying to explain why the dev team is terrible, I will now commence with simply stating that they are in fact terrible. Yeah but listen I would usually agree with you but come on on this one they are doing something really great in my opinion. There is a lot of fun to the system fo team kill forgiveness haha I'm in love to be honest. And I've been fastt o call on CCP on the terrible designs they do all the time! But this isn't one of them!
This has the potential to be awesome! It does need some work, imo I think eve players should set up the battles. With the auto system always there for backup help create enough battle to fill the dust mercs linning up. This way eve players and dust players can get 3 minutes together in the warbarge before a fight! Voice chat and everything. Remember when the devs thought it was a good idea to charge money per day to use voice chat? The vision of dust/eve can still happen, it just really really needs to happen, because right now everyone who I talk to about this game just talks about how unfinished it feels. They don't say it's necessarily bad. |
David Spd
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2013.10.19 07:42:00 -
[126] - Quote
Sounds like the real people benefiting from this is CCP. Essentially people that play public matches alone will get a heavy shaft for countless reasons (no unique weapons, will deal with FW players using tryhardweapons in addition to proto gear etc.)
No ISK for playing FW? Passing back and forth between Public matches & FW means that people that get their new toys will be destroying public matches once this stuff gets high enough in quantity. "I'm bored so I'll use my specialist items against newbies". If someone is actually committed to playing FW a LOT then they're actually going to be losing a lot of money. And I mean.... a LOT. ISK sink just to get rid off all this excess ISK floating around before player market arrives, really.
You guys have GOT to find a way to stop this officer and proto stomping going on in public matches. Once this gear starts emerging from FW it's only going to get worse. Making FW more appealing isn't going to stop or deter people from doing it, either. They're just going to use more hardcore fits and ensure they have more of a team to play with so they can steamroll the enemy team for maximum payout so they can do some more FW.
This HTFU mindset is the reason why a whole lot of nobody has anything good to say about Dust apart from hardcore elitists that are all ready well established in the game. If you devs & players could stop being delusional for a moment and realize that a stupidly difficult game is only going to appeal to a very niche (read: small) number of people then maybe you guys could see a large surge n players and see a consistent rise in players.
As it stands newbies are thrown to the wolves, and they literally get demolished for MONTHS before they can finally wear some fairly competitive gear. But with this new rewards system that's going to come with FW (and the obvious "grace" period that will follow before trading becomes available) anybody with under 7 mil SP is just going to be further shat on.
And can I just say that just because a game is "more fun" with friends doesn't mean it's a good game. I've seen some Let's Plays on Youtube of some truly abysmal games and since people were cracking jokes with their friends they had a good time. Telling people "Find a corp. to have a good time" etc. is basically just admitting that there is no place for people that want to play solo or have no other choice.
And let's be honest, someone's gonna quote me with some nonsense about squad based party play. Don't kid yourself - this isn't Rainbow Six, nor is it ARMA. Coordinated teamplay helps but there are no substantial systems universally designed around it. The only reason why squadplay is encouraged is due to the obvious power gap between standard and prototype. Standard can beat proto, yep, but the average person is not going to manage it. |
Zatara Rought
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
1347
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Posted - 2013.10.19 09:28:00 -
[127] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=116266&find=unread
Relevant suggestions. |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
309
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Posted - 2013.10.19 09:45:00 -
[128] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Ghural wrote:Not rewarding players with ISK for participating in faction warfare means that it will be impossible to have a faction warfare only corp. Unless they buy Aurum Gear only of course. Pay to play now I am personally in full favor of making the loss of gear or even clones in Dust more expensive than it currently is. Increase Isk scarcity! Make profitability as necessary yet difficult as you can without negatively impacting playerbase growth. Make loss hurt! That is such a great driver of intense gameplay and wealth distribution based on skill and complex gameplay. As long as your playerbase is growing then making successful gameplay more closely aligned with playing profitably then you make the economy a viable force.
This isn't an MMO, price imbalance is precisely why vehicles are in such a state now, we don't need to spread this problem. |
Spectral Clone
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
243
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Posted - 2013.10.19 10:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
Wow! This sounds incredible.
Dust is starting to become an MMO. |
Raz Warsaw
Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder.
27
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Posted - 2013.10.19 10:09:00 -
[130] - Quote
Itshappeningronpaul.gif |
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Absolute Idiom II
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
813
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:03:00 -
[131] - Quote
Accidental Leak?
Quote:EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
409
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:33:00 -
[132] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: EVE Orbitals We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out.
Like the Incursions tab of the journal? |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1064
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:44:00 -
[133] - Quote
Horus Forge wrote:I didn't find the salvage rewards when playing PC that appealing, perhaps the quantity and randomization could be tweaked, especially if there will be no ISK for matches. I don't like the idea of having to switch to Public contracts "to make my wages". On the EVE side can't they convert LP to ISK?
Only by buying things with LP and selling them for ISK. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
2816
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:44:00 -
[134] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:Accidental Leak? Quote:EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel.
Local in DUST has been delayed for a while now. |
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
409
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:53:00 -
[135] - Quote
but they'll show up in Eve local, which will give a big hint that things are going down somewhere.
Which might be okay, I guess, but i was expecting beacons, not local spikes :) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
2816
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Posted - 2013.10.19 13:18:00 -
[136] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:but they'll show up in Eve local, which will give a big hint that things are going down somewhere.
Which might be okay, I guess, but i was expecting beacons, not local spikes :)
That's fine, we want to be showing activity in DUST when it happens.
We are more concerned about DUST accounts being used to dig up intel for EVE. |
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3370
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Posted - 2013.10.19 13:44:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:but they'll show up in Eve local, which will give a big hint that things are going down somewhere.
Which might be okay, I guess, but i was expecting beacons, not local spikes :) That's fine, we want to be showing activity in DUST when it happens. We are more concerned about DUST accounts being used to dig up intel for EVE.
Why is this a bad thing, exactly? |
neurol forever
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2013.10.19 13:47:00 -
[138] - Quote
Sorry for my English.
When no isk reward and friendly fire on in fw i will going to fw only with free stuff. Walking in red zone and waiting if my team win and get lp. I never afking but with this is good day to start. |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
784
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Posted - 2013.10.19 13:58:00 -
[139] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: Friendly Fire I can see us also doing a max TK per battle as well as the standings penalties. That was actually in the original design but we didn't include it in the notes here. I think of all the numbers and mechanics, the friendly fire penalties will be the area that undergoes the most change based on player feedback and just how well it plays out once we go live. We are acutely aware of how important it is to get the FF penalties in pubs correct.
wouldn't it be great to prevent intentional team kills by adding a system that stops your gun for a while whenever you hit a friend? |
Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
587
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Posted - 2013.10.19 14:12:00 -
[140] - Quote
This is excellent news all round. It's been obvious for a while that the quickest way to get a substantive link between the game s was FW.
All the ideas mentioned in the OP need to be implemented as a minimum over the next few builds. I'm guessing around 4 months till we get all of that in place. At work at the moment do can't go into too detail with my thoughts but in the words of Arnie...
'Doooo iiihiiittttt!' |
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1064
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Posted - 2013.10.19 14:25:00 -
[141] - Quote
I read through all the posts on all the threads and I like everything that has been outlined. However, I am also concerned about mercs throwing themselves into the line of fire to help one side win by sabotage. I am not disagreeing with the tactic but my concern is that it will turn people off if they lose standings because of suicide suits.
The factional boosters are a good idea and will give mercs a way to fight for who they want and not be punished too bad. I am glad to see that there is a way to fight with a friend and it not hit your standings. The rewards for FW look to be ok but without all the suits, weapons, equipment and vehicles some of the rewards seem out of place. The new variants of items is good and giving them a little bonus to resources drawn from the suit is better than a new skin.
It would be nice to receive a visible rank that shows our loyalty publicly and in the character info screen. EVE only strikes are a good step in bridging the EvE/DUST gap. Rewarding pilots would go a long way. LP only rewards was odd to me at first but the more I think about it them more I like it. It adds to feeling that this battle is different but I am worried that it will encourage players to use inexpensive suits.
To me everything sounds good but until we break it we will never know. I am not too worried about any imbalances right now because I know they will get tweaked out. I am glad to see some progress and I always like to see different weapon stats but without a p2p trading the different weapons seem to be the icing with no cake. Overall I like it and and look forward to any changes that add diversity to the game. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1600
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Posted - 2013.10.19 14:29:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: 1. Friendly Fire 2. EVE Orbitals 3. [Team Deploy ... missing] 4. [Suicide / Sabotage ... missing]
1. Idea! Warn-a-merc after 1st TK. Kick-a-merc after 2nd or 3rd. 2. \o/ 3. Any chance? 4. Any ideas? |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2907
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Posted - 2013.10.19 14:33:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote: No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable.
Please look at this whole post. Who are you to tell us what game modes we should play to be considered having a "healthy lifestyle" in Dust? Isn't this supposed to be a sandbox? Your "good reasons" to remove the ISK penalty is punishing people who only do FW with an ISK sink?
I am part of a corp that has been focused on FW since it was introduced in EVE. This is all we do. Now you're telling me in order to participate in FW I'm going to have to play pub matches for these randomly selected corps like Blood Raiders and Sansha's Nation? And while I'm fighting for these corps, my faction that I truly care about could be losing a district in FW that I otherwise would of been able to defend?
I'm sorry Nullarbor, you're going to have to come up with a lot better reasoning than that. And look, I see your argument of "we still want people playing public matches" and that's great! But you can't FORCE us to play public matches. Why not instead have public matches pay more ISK while FW matches pay less ISK and LP. So basically
Public Matches: Lots of ISK payout, no LP payout Faction Warfare: Small, but still there, ISK payout. LP payout.
That would give people a reason to play public matches over FW without FORCING people to. FORCE being the key word.
And again, as many have said, I'm fine with the removal of ISK from factional contracts if you gave us another way to make ISK that doesn't take time away that I could be spending defending my faction, like a player market where I can sell LP and salvage. But until then, FORCING us to play public matches is absolutely unacceptable. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2907
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Posted - 2013.10.19 14:42:00 -
[144] - Quote
Also in terms of team kills, I know there is no way to tell between an intentional TK and an accidental TK, but it really shouldn't matter. If you are TKing at all you are a liability to your team and should be punished (unless of course you are "TKing" someone who has already TKed to defend yourself"). Yeah it will suck for the person who gets too many accidental TKs and gets suspended from his faction for a long length of time, but that will teach him to be more careful. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
2817
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Posted - 2013.10.19 15:04:00 -
[145] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote: No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable.
Please look at this whole post. Who are you to tell us what game modes we should play to be considered having a "healthy lifestyle" in Dust? Isn't this supposed to be a sandbox? Your "good reasons" to remove the ISK penalty is punishing people who only do FW with an ISK sink? I am part of a corp that has been focused on FW since it was introduced in EVE. This is all we do. Now you're telling me in order to participate in FW I'm going to have to play pub matches for these randomly selected corps like Blood Raiders and Sansha's Nation? And while I'm fighting for these corps, my faction that I truly care about could be losing a district in FW that I otherwise would of been able to defend? I'm sorry Nullarbor, you're going to have to come up with a lot better reasoning than that. And look, I see your argument of "we still want people playing public matches" and that's great! But you can't FORCE us to play public matches. Why not instead have public matches pay more ISK while FW matches pay less ISK and LP. So basically Public Matches: Lots of ISK payout, no LP payout Faction Warfare: Small, but still there, ISK payout. LP payout. That would give people a reason to play public matches over FW without FORCING people to. FORCE being the key word. And again, as many have said, I'm fine with the removal of ISK from factional contracts if you gave us another way to make ISK that doesn't take time away that I could be spending defending my faction, like a player market where I can sell LP and salvage. But until then, FORCING us to play public matches is absolutely unacceptable.
As I said we expect specialists will exist in the game, but that won't be sustainable until the player market comes online. Until then we're not compromising on our big picture plan, so you'll need to supplement it with pubs / PC / corp income etc |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
2817
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Posted - 2013.10.19 15:07:00 -
[146] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Also in terms of team kills, I know there is no way to tell between an intentional TK and an accidental TK, but it really shouldn't matter. If you are TKing at all you are a liability to your team and should be punished (unless of course you are "TKing" someone who has already TKed to defend yourself"). Yeah it will suck for the person who gets too many accidental TKs and gets suspended from his faction for a long length of time, but that will teach him to be more careful.
We will have a forgive option to cover accidental where the victim agrees it was an accident. I kinda like the suggestion about no TK penalty for squad mates as well. Will discuss that with the team. |
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2907
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Posted - 2013.10.19 15:16:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
As I said we expect specialists will exist in the game, but that won't be sustainable until the player market comes online. Until then we're not compromising on our big picture plan, so you'll need to supplement it with pubs / PC / corp income etc
Since when was it a good practice in game development to release something before it was ready? If something won't be sustainable until something else arrives, then it needs to be delayed so they both arrive at the same time. Game development 101. I know you guys are excited about expanding FW as am I, but you can't get ahead of yourselves.
As for supplements, I already made my point on pubs and PC is a terribly exclusive party with how few districts there are. Corp income on the other hand really shouldn't even be listed in my opinion, as right now corps have no way to get income aside from PC, which is already listed, and taxing players, which is through pubs and PC, both already listed. But that does bring up a good question, will corp tax apply to LP as well? |
shaman oga
Atmospheric Pollution
789
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Posted - 2013.10.19 15:20:00 -
[148] - Quote
The idea of make people pay isk if they kill allies seems good, no matter if it's intentional or not, if you destroy you pay, maybe half of the value of what you have destroyed. |
Jerrickar Anzomi
Carolus Rex Corporation
0
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Posted - 2013.10.19 15:21:00 -
[149] - Quote
I really like that they are pushing the idea for a DUST 514 and EVE online merge. Factional Warfare is my favourite contracts =) Can-Št wait to see how DUST 514 develops in the future. |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
2820
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Posted - 2013.10.19 15:33:00 -
[150] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:
As I said we expect specialists will exist in the game, but that won't be sustainable until the player market comes online. Until then we're not compromising on our big picture plan, so you'll need to supplement it with pubs / PC / corp income etc
Since when was it a good practice in game development to release something before it was ready? If something won't be sustainable until something else arrives, then it needs to be delayed so they both arrive at the same time. Game development 101. I know you guys are excited about expanding FW as am I, but you can't get ahead of yourselves. As for supplements, I already made my point on pubs and PC is a terribly exclusive party with how few districts there are. Corp income on the other hand really shouldn't even be listed in my opinion, as right now corps have no way to get income aside from PC, which is already listed, and taxing players, which is through pubs and PC, both already listed. But that does bring up a good question, will corp tax apply to LP as well?
It won't be too far behind, and experience tells me you guys will complain but manage just fine until the player market is rolled out. We could delay FW until *everything* is ready by that seems like a worse idea.
No taxation on LP, corps do not have an LP wallet. |
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