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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
En Driago
The Immortal Knights
4
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sounds like fun. Can't wait. Only one minor issue I have is the "replace ISK with LP" statement... with friendly fire on, and it not really sounding like you get to pick all 16 players, like in PC matches, the cost of spending on some of those suits can get pretty steep. So this match system, in essence, is a way to throw away money...unless you have a perfect game.. and lets be honest, how many people have those all that often? I like the cost of LP for "special" items, but I don't want to play a game that already cuts into my meager gains. The suit I run, how its fitted out is already 163k .. if don't do well, or die twice no matter how much the match is worth I am already losing money. But to start a match...that at its core will be with MUCH more experienced players then the average PUB match, the likelihood of me losing more then 1 suit is going to be good. I don't want to enter a match that is guaranteed to not pay out, then run the HIGH risk of losing a butt-load of ISK doing it. Sure LP is good... but if I aint makin any ISK to support it for the 'special' items, what good is it really?
All I am saying, is maybe reconsider the 'no ISK' part. Even a lil' is better than none...
Thanks
Cant wait to get into it!!
PS: speaking of getting into it, I have heard there will be AI matches.. like against Sleeper Drones or the Forerunners (not sure their real name) ... When will THOSE be coming? :) |
General John Ripper
MoIden Heath PoIice Department
EoN.
3741
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
approved |
Panoscape
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
139
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
I agree with En Driago, it needs to be ISK + LP. |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
524
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Brush Master wrote:Overall nice iteration. I commented on specifics in the thread but overall the only things that stand out are
"Losing too many standings will remove you from factional contracts. " seems harsh and should be phased in from a higher to lower amount. Accidentally kills are rather high in PC, so I expect them to be even higher in FW
Vehicles cost lots of Isk so there seems to be a need to have greater rewards if you bring them to the match.
I think they mean that if your standing is to low for a faction you can't fight for them anymore, because who wants a guy that has been killing you're people for a long time to work for them.
However, saying that CCP you do need to introduce a way for us to fix faction standings, like oh killing drones |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
133700
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:So while we are already under way implementing the core of these changes, a lot of the specifics are still up for debate so we want to hear concise and reasoned feedback on everything. Please take the time to chew on this for a bit, ask questions if it's not clear then let us know where we might run into problems and why.
Looking forward to hearing all the comments. Cheers. If all someone is doing is playing FW and not getting any ISK, all they're going to do is hemorrhage ISK, but they'll have loyalty points. What exactly could you get with LP? Would I be able to replace a full tank with LP?
Not at this time, once the secondary market is in and you can sell your LP items for ISK then yes.
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
133700
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
BursegSardaukar wrote:These changes do sound awesome. I did post a request in the matchmaking thread, and have a larger question that doesn't seem to be addressed: Will there be a way for Dust mercs to attack a specific district, creating the match contract themselves? For example, if a side knows that Old Man Star is being fought over heavily, will there be a way to constantly attack all the open districts?
DUST players targeting specific systems is something we are looking into, but will not make it for this iteration.
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
133700
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Panoscape wrote:Once someone totally looses their standings and gets booted out of FW, is there a way for that person to get back in?
Could it be like a cool down period of say, a month? Then they get a few standing points so they can turn over a new leaf. But, if they don't then the small size of the gifted standing points will be used up and he'll be kicked out for another month.
For now it's a timer, probably around the 24 hour mark. So once kicked from FW they will have to wait 24 hours before being able to get back in.
Game Designer // Team True Grit
http://twitter.com/regnerba |
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Free Beers
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1504
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
FoxIV
Remember you want to motivate players to play continuously not just till they max their standings. Also it will add to the player market with better built in supply and demand aspects
1. Add standings tick down
2. remove booster that stops you from losing standing that's just bad
Next iteration needs corp deploy, a way for eve FW militas to work with dust corps and initiate attacks or contract for defense
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
Alpha Wolf Pack
503
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
How will the salvage rewards work if players are running full Militia starter fits or (worse,) full BPO suits? Will people receive single-use 'Dren' Assault Rifles or 'Dragonfly' suits? I'm sure there are quite a few players that have full-BPO suits from BPOs they acquired from the market before they were discontinued; it'll be interesting to see how you guys handle someone's salvage when they're running a full 'Dren' suit with a 'Syndicate' SMG. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
2004
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
This is impressive!
I'm still digesting the posts, but I've noticed that there is no mention of team deploy.
Are there currently plans to implement a team depoy option? |
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Ku Shala
Planetary Response Organization
Test Friends Please Ignore
595
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
needs team deploy/ up to 16 man squad |
SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION
RISE of LEGION
571
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
I love to see these changes. I love that we are getting Standings. I hope they can be expanded so that we can actually set other player corps as allies or enemies. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
1121
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Not to take anthing away from individuals, but it is true that this has been a long ongoing conversation. For example, it looks like we have a candidate solution to the several large VTK conversations from a year ago. There are many posts going back a year or more that outline and debate the details of many of these features. |
cSRT4
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
29
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
I am so excited that team killing will be turned on! I can hardly stand the wait!!!
I am gonna blow up so many [team] tanks, you don't even know. For you idiot tankers out there, just remember my name ("cSRT4") and know you WILL be losing a tank if you blow up a ******* supply depot and I know it was you. Just letting you know ahead of time so you don't QQ later. Just know it and accept it cause it's gonna happen. (I call it the Kobe theory.)
God damn. That's about the best news I've read in a very long time.
 |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
227
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Most looks well and good.
I do have a concern for eve pilots. You need to implement some sort of cookie for them to wait around for orbitals. Otherwise a vast majority of these games wont have any orbital support.
Could also use a militia chat channels once we reach a specific reward level so we can coordinate or notify EVE pilots of needed OB support.
I think w/o eve rewards there wont be much incentive for eve to participate in doing orbitals. It is quite rare they "make or break" a game. |
Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
97
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
lol.... finally we can make em pay for breaking the supply depots! |
Knight Soiaire
P.O.I.N.T.L.E.S.S A.C.R.O.N.Y.M
2614
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
If you want to keep that Depot, I wont destroy it on the condition that you defend it.
Depots are important to both tanks and infantry, but they also allow the enemy to swap out fits with ease if flipped, I will destroy it to stop that.
Making it more of a hassle for enemies to swap to AV. |
S Park Finner
DUST University
Ivy League
336
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:If you want to keep that Depot, I wont destroy it on the condition that you defend it. Depots are important to both tanks and infantry, but they also allow the enemy to swap out fits with ease if flipped, I will destroy it to stop that. Making it more of a hassle for enemies to swap to AV. I'm all for friendly fire being on but I'd like to see a significant penalty applied to the killer. I suggest they get a death for each kill they make and loose the fit they are using at the time while not being removed from the game like they would normally be if they died. Add that to the SP loss for a team kill and it will at least make folks be sure they want to take the shot.
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lordjanuz
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation
Top Men.
198
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
Will this be relased before christmas. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
987
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP to playerbase: Blah blah blah stuff we want to do, Promise this, promise that, don't bother to test server it, no timeline and this will keep the player base's head in the sand till the end of time. The very fact you just say this stuff and have no competency to even guess at when you could do it just shows how incapable Dust development has become.
And LOL at LP market before player market.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
130
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
In the words of my sainted Grandmother, "F%ck Yeah!". +1 CCP
Very solid vision for FW and how to make it meaningful and a critical part of the meta-game.
Only comment for general discussion at the moment is what if anything will CCP be doing to highlight this on the EVE side? How will EVE pilots and corps be incentivized to participate?
As we went through the recent faction war surge (nicely shaped by your kit reward incentives) we were having a great deal of our sucess because we have a very tight linkage with our EVE partners. Not sure that's overly common but I think the more the EVE primary base sees Dust (i.e. FW) as a worthwhile endevor the healthier this becomes.
I look forward to checking out the other posts and trying to provide some solid feedback.
Again...great job, Sock! |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
448
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Nice overview and I think this new direction shows a lot of positive elements that players can embrace. However there are a few key elements that I think are 100% necessary if you really want to see the results I think you expect from these changes. Without them I think you are just putting a band-aid on a bullet wound and after the initial interest and appeal you get post launch, people are going to become bored (pretty much like they are now).
1. Team Deployment
Right now the only incentive for doing Faction Warfare is the very weak mechanic that gives teams a chance to queue-sync. The new Faction Contracts does up the Meta feel a bit and provides unique incentive with Loyalty Points. All good stuff.
But the lack of ISK rewards means that you play these matches at an ISK loss for an LP/Standings gain. To minimize that ISK loss, players need to be able to rely on solid team play. That means that there needs to be the ability to deploy and entire team of friends into the battle. At the same time we are losing the ability to queue-sync in battles that do pay out ISK based rewards if Public Matches stay as they are now.
This means that Team Deployment needs to be present in both Public Matches and Faction Contracts when this launches. Otherwise there seems to be little point in launching it at all. If less organized players are concerned about their survivability then I propose you have matches that are limited to individuals and standard squads AND matches that allow individuals, standard squads and Team Deployment for both Public Matches and Faction Contracts.
2. New Game Mode
Faction Contracts needs to launch with a new objective based game mode attached to it, in addition to the standard Skirmish. Dust 514 is already suffering from a severe lack of variety. A new objective based mode will provide more incentive to Faction Contracts than any other element.
You seem poised to invest a lot of development resources into this 'reworking' of Faction Warfare. That is great. But without a new game mode to accompany it, it is an empty gesture in my opinion. I would prefer that we get a new mode before or in conjunction with Faction Contracts. Otherwise you are just putting the cart before the horse....AGAIN.
3. Secondary Market
I think provided the above elements are present, Faction Contracts can make an impact without the secondary market up and running right out of the gate. But it needs to be following up close on the heals if you want to keep the momentum. I think I would be willing to wait a couple of months if we could get them out at relatively the same time but their is more leeway on this topic.
4. Loyalty Point Market
I am sure the ISK/LP combo pricing has not been ironed out yet but I hope that the ISK requirements are not significant. Having them is smart, so players not heavily engaged in Planetary Conquest will still be mixing it up in the Public Match pool. But pricing should be such that a player can still put a primary focus on Faction Contract with their playtime if they so choose.
5. Friendly Fire
A key element and a win for the core community. The standings penalties are good but they are not enough. There needs to be a max team kill limitation imposed...period. Team kill X amount of players and you are automatically kicked from the match. I think this kind of safety protocol will go a long way to ease the minds of a lot of players. The suggested 'forgiveness' mechanic is also a good idea and should be fully fleshed out ASAP.
6. Orbital Strikes
EVE-only orbital strikes is a good way to go. It compels integration between the two games. While it may favor groups with combined Dust/EVE units or alliances, there will hopefully be sufficient EVE pilots that random groups can call on to get in on the action. However, there won't be if their is not enough incentive EVE-side to get pilots to risk themselves for strangers.
One alternative that could (and should) be considered if this proves to be an issue, is just raising the War Point requirements for non-EVE orbital strikes. Lets say double what they would be in a Public Match. So there is still incentive for players in both games to work together, but there is still a chance for well organized teams of Dust-only players to have an asset like OB's if needed. |
Knight Soiaire
P.O.I.N.T.L.E.S.S A.C.R.O.N.Y.M
2614
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
Like the look of the changes so far.
But.....
Team Deploy? (Sorry if it was mentioned and I just missed it)
And I assume you'll be adding the Secondary Marketplace at the same time (Or at least, close to the release date of this update), because the last thing I want is more useless salvage lying around. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1634
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:53:00 -
[54] - Quote
You seem to have addressed all my concerns. Now to dig into the other threads and check on implementation. |
echo47
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
89
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
I like the changes that are coming.
With the stakes being so high now with faction warfare we should not be thrown into matches that have already started. The match should not start until both sides have 16 players.
There should also be a standing loss for leaving a match before it is over.
The changes mentioned in this post are definitely needed and appreciated. |
Talos Vagheitan
King Slayers
93
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sounds Kick@SS!
Can't wait. Are there any plans for friendly fire trolls in Faction Contracts? |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4338
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
- Friendly fire will be enabled.
- You will gain standings to corporations for winning matches.
- You will lose standings for team killing players.
- The higher your standings the higher your reward.
- Losing too many standings will remove you from factional contracts.
- Replace ISK payouts with loyalty point payouts.
- Add a loyalty point store with unique items that cost both ISK and LP.
- Orbital strikes from EVE only, no warbarge strike.
- Add salvage based on what players used in the match.
- New tab for the end of match screen focusing on factional contracts.
Soooo i remember ages ago we mentioned dust should have LP and always got turned down sayin NO NO NO we kno best and LP isnt the way to go we got other rewards planned!
curious..............................cuz im seeing LP rewards there, made sure to bold and underline as well so what brought about the sudden reversal? Have yall realised u should listen a little bit more to community now instead of ignoring stuff? cuz srsly we been beatin down LP for almost a year and u guys always said NO its not happening all the time.
kinda funny, but yea what brought about the change? <---spr srs question btw |
Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2013.10.18 20:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
I'm going to ask a few questions to you FoxFour(or any other CCP employee) if you don't mind.
What kind of player are you guys targeting to participate ?
What stops a high level player (16 kills to get booted) from simply killing a low level player every now and again that is hacking objectives to hack them himself ?
What is the number of LP to to achieve the max rank?
Do eve online players get penalties to their standing from team killing ?
Lets say I don't try to team kill, but just destroy my teams equipment , shoot out their shields, just stand in front of a ally tank and ping their tank to prevent recharging their shields(or make him kill me), or deliberately run into a orbital strike(who gets penalized?) do I get penalized ?
And is their counter measures to prevent one side from completely dominating , for example Faction A has 300 dedicated players , a good chunk of them are pretty good vs Faction B who has less than that and aren't has good and less dedicated . What prevents people from just quitting and go to the winning side? |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2887
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:02:00 -
[59] - Quote
If we're not going to be getting any ISK out of FW, but still need ISK to buy stuff from the loyalty stores, then you are either requiring players to have an income from PC or forcing players to do pub matches. That is terrible, absolutely terrible. I understand you don't want to make FW a progression, where you never return to pub matches. But you can't FORCE us to play pub matches. If all I want to do is play FW all day by choice, I should be able to. Yes that will be solved in the future when we can trade LP for ISK and stuff, but how long will that be? In the meantime it's absolutely not acceptable! Either make items in the loyalty store only cost LP or keep the ISK payout in FW.
CCP FoxFour wrote:Panoscape wrote:Once someone totally looses their standings and gets booted out of FW, is there a way for that person to get back in?
Could it be like a cool down period of say, a month? Then they get a few standing points so they can turn over a new leaf. But, if they don't then the small size of the gifted standing points will be used up and he'll be kicked out for another month. For now it's a timer, probably around the 24 hour mark. So once kicked from FW they will have to wait 24 hours before being able to get back in.
24 hours is too short, probably needs to be a week. Otherwise that's too easy to grief. Or perhaps have the first time 24 hours, but then an extended amount of time after each repeat offense? |
Free Beers
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1505
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 20:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:
- Friendly fire will be enabled.
- You will gain standings to corporations for winning matches.
- You will lose standings for team killing players.
- The higher your standings the higher your reward.
- Losing too many standings will remove you from factional contracts.
- Replace ISK payouts with loyalty point payouts.
- Add a loyalty point store with unique items that cost both ISK and LP.
- Orbital strikes from EVE only, no warbarge strike.
- Add salvage based on what players used in the match.
- New tab for the end of match screen focusing on factional contracts.
Soooo i remember ages ago we mentioned dust should have LP and always got turned down sayin NO NO NO we kno best and LP isnt the way to go we got other rewards planned! curious..............................cuz im seeing LP rewards there, made sure to bold and underline as well so what brought about the sudden reversal? Have yall realised u should listen a little bit more to community now instead of ignoring stuff? cuz srsly we been beatin down LP for almost a year and u guys always said NO its not happening all the time. kinda funny, but yea what brought about the change? <---spr srs question btw
Yeah summer 2012 Mavado and ccp said there would be no second currency in dust. That was back when ccp wasn't allowed to listen to players because they had a plan and us players were just stupid and don't know any better. |
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