I felt the equipment speed thing was kind of useless compared to the others. The new proposed bonus allows you to have more equipment left over if you find a better spot; personally I hate using up both nanohives or my only compact nanohive, and finding a much better spot a minute later (also applies to uplinks). Also its pretty great for explosives.
I could edit the proposal to also increase maximum amount of deployables that can be active also, what do you think?

You're underestimating how useful faster equipment would be.

As for increasing the number of active equipment I don't think it should be done(at least not per level - as much as I'd like to build a giant Alfred E. Neuman out of uplinks it would be too much). That and too much deployed equipment lags the game(although we can hopefully ignore that as it will likely get fixed).

How about this?
Level 1: +1 Carried
Level 2: +1 Deployed
Level 3: +1 Carried
Level 4: +1 Deployed
Level 5: +1 Carried

You would end up with 3 extra carried and 2 extra deployable. This would keep it useful without it being too powerful.

I would accept that or faster equipment(they would be equally useful to me). That being said extra equipment would be more useful to more players.



While I would miss the hacking speed I would find either of the above more useful more of the tume(I would be spending the exorbitant amount of SP to get Codebreaking up to level 5).

Its PER LEVEL! 25% increase for the flaylock gives you 1 extra round. 25% of the Mass driver's 6 gives you 1 more rounds, for the assault Mass Driver that would be 2 more; and for the combat rifle, it'll extend the time you can keep firing since you'll have a bigger magazine size.

I'm glad that you decided to speak up on this topic, seeing as how nobody else has.

Yep.....there have totally been no threads on this topic ever before or anything like that.

Says the alt.

Also, that setup is laughable from my Logistics point of view. It would force anyone who wants to play Logistics to be Caldari, as they are the only ones with an equipment bonus. The Minmatar Assault also has the same problem as this thread's, namely that small clip and burstfire weapons would be screwed over in favor of automatic bullethoses. Furthermore, all the bonuses are generic as hell. MinAss gets bonuses to all Light and Sidearm weapons, for example. That only serves to highlight the ones he decides to keep blindingly narrow, like the Minmatar Scout with ONLY Nova Knives.

Also, he doesn't seem to have any kind of theme running, not even by races or by suit classes. He says each is in its 'role' but its sad that Logi Bro doesn't understand that Logi's are healers...

Anyway, my biggest complaint is that I would be forced to play as a Caldari id I wanted to use ANY of the healing equipment. In EVE, a Scythe is one of THE Logistics ships. It is made for the sole purpose of shield transporting, but other races have equivalents that match their play-style. This would be akin to making the Amarr Logistics ship the only one with armor repper bonuses, and giving the Gallentean Logisticsbonuses to setting space mines. This is why we need an engineer suit, because so many people conflate the equipment slots as the Logistics being an equipment mule. Its like people that think that a Rohk mines better than a Hulk because it has more laser hardpoints. They are dead wrong, but its easy enough to see why they thought that.

Furthermore, all the bonuses are generic as hell.

Blah blah bleeeeehhhhh I'm just a hater, and my breath smells like old fungus socks. I don't respect KAGEHOSHI's obvious supreme higher intellect.

This is better than your originally proposed change but I think you are avoiding the real reason for your reluctance to have a hacking buff on the Minmatar Logi suit. I don't think the suit needs any change unless it is to add the buff you propose to the suit. Taking away the current hacking bonus is not an answer but adding additional bonuses for a Logi suit would help offset the sheer cost to deploy with Proto gear (Proto Everything). Currently an all proto logi suit (RT, Injector, hives, links, weapon, armor/shields, scanner, damage mods/codebreakers) costs close to 300,000 isk. For someone to be running all the good stuff and buffing their team with all this good equipment they should given a reward for using this stuff that helps both the team and themselves. The hacking bonus combined with the 50% increase to max equip carried and deployed would do just that. It doesn't make them a killer but rather than being forced to resupply when hives or links are depleted they could continue to be a roaming supply center for a good deal longer and would still be helpful when hacking installations like they always have been.

lol, most of the bonuses on THIS thread are word for word copied of the thread I linked. That was just ONE example of a thread by the way, there have like 50 different threads that any of you could have gone to to discuss this topic, but you added just one more to the mass. Don't try to make a big argument about logistics with me btw, because you are wrong that logis are healers, they simply have a lot of equipment, that doesn't mean that their function has to be streamlined to one specific function.

Bringing up D&D doesn't qualify you as an expert on logistics. There are no defined roles in this game, smart guy, the only reason we have the great in-depth suit customization is so we can do what we want how we want. I can equip an AR and stack damage mods on a logi suit, and there is nothing wrong with that, because there are no defined roles. Like I already said, the only clearly defined aspect of the logistics class is the abundance of equipment slots. That does not in any way set it specifically as a healer.

But I am getting the feeling that I am talking to a brick wall.

NOT avoiding, already addressed it. I'll copy/paste
"Hacking bonus is not logi enough because it has nothing to do with equipment; which is the whole point of logis (carry equipment to support, or to whatever). That's pretty simple. Hacking speed belongs on a fast stealthy suit that can better take advantage of it."

You sir are wrong, and still avoiding the issue. A scout would get there quick, hack quick and run circles around the map constantly jacking points while the logi bro acts like a medic or waterboy, with no real usefulness aside from equipment deployment. I would argue that all logis should have the hacking bonus. The logi suit is a larger sig and easier to find making it rather balanced for someone with a hacking bonus.

As for not logi enough, I support my team by hacking points, deploying equipment and shooting people. How is this not a support role?

I agree with Kagehoshi on this one.

I think the current logi line up should be about equipment.
Eventually there should be another set of medium suits that focus on ewar. Perhaps some of these should get hacking bonuses.

The hacking bonus seems to fit better on the scout at the moment rather than the logi.

Incidentally I trained min Logi 5 especially for the hacking bonus.

I would prefer E-war stuff to be on a light frames like scouts instead of medium frames. Scouts are already about E-war.

Why not both? With different emphasis with each.

It all depends on the rest of the ewar we get though.
Currently we just have scanning and hacking.

I like this idea a lot, though I'm not sure it could realistically be implemented. I don't know if CCP can make skills work that way. Could just make it a percentage; 50% max carried + 50 max deployed per level. When maxed out it would 250% more carried and deployed, is is 3x more if it rounds up.

I addressed the issue, you asked why I'm reluctant to let the Minmatar logi keep the hacking bonus, and I told you already; it doesn't fit with the logi's role, which is equipment carrying; equipment can be used either for support, or for offensive reasons. Just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean I didn't address the issue.

Even when you're playing as a scout, running speed means nothing if you're shot in the back before your hack can be completed. Remember that the entire enemy team can see an objective is being hacked.

You have some strong biases I see. The logi already has a lot of great things going for it: it gets an extra module slot compared to its assault counterpart (2 module slots in the case of the Caldari logi) allowing for significantly greater HP potential then assaults, has better scanning abilities making it easy for it to spot other medium frames while those medium frames are unable to spot it, Great PG/CPU which is very useful for fitting pototype weapons, you can make lots of war points making you a precision strike generator for your squad, and the ability to carry multiple equipment is a HUGE advantage despite your attempts to make it look like some cursed crappy job like being a "waterboy". You may not want to play support, but with a logi suit you don't really have to; you can play solo and set remote explosives to get a bunch of kills, know the enemy's location with active scanner, and resupply your REs with a nanohive to make more kaboom.

Its hard to take you seriously when you pretend like logis are some weak underpowered suit that need a buff. Saying the logi has "no real usefulness aside from equipment deployment" completely ignores how useful equipment can be to a battle, for example: so many battles have been decided by who has the most drop uplinks. Saying the logi "with no real usefulness aside from equipment deployment" is like saying "assaults have no real usefulness aside from running around and killing things", or that "scouts no real usefulness aside from being fast and stealthy", or "heavies have no real usefulness aside from having lots of HP and getting heavy weapons"; that's the entire point of these suits. Maybe you chose the wrong specialization if you don't want to be defined by carrying equipment.

I also don't see how hacking an objective is support; its the main action which the battle is centered around, a support action is on that helps fulfill that main goal, not an act that itself fulfills the main goal. You can't just lump everything that doesn't involve shooting someone as "support".

I still think you are pushing for this because you don't have a hacking bonus on your suit and are upset about it. I also see this as not fixing any of the issues with a non-bonus bonus. Yes deploying more equipment is great, but this doesn't address the low shield regen rate of the minmatar logi suit or the fact that the cost to deploy in a proto suit is more than 3x the cost of the equivalent meta assault suit due to the increased amount of equipment carried. Yes I carry equipment, if I could carry more I would, but that doesn't mean I feel that the bonus currently on the suit is wrong or not in line with a logi suit bonus. I specifically skilled minmatar for that particular bonus and still have several ranks in hacking because it is still not fast enough for me. Survival of a logi is more important at this point, the hack bonus is the way to go.

I still think you are pushing for this because you don't have a hacking bonus on your suit and are upset about it. I also see this as not fixing any of the issues with a non-bonus bonus. Yes deploying more equipment is great, but this doesn't address the low shield regen rate of the minmatar logi suit or the fact that the cost to deploy in a proto suit is more than 3x the cost of the equivalent meta assault suit due to the increased amount of equipment carried. Yes I carry equipment, if I could carry more I would, but that doesn't mean I feel that the bonus currently on the suit is wrong or not in line with a logi suit bonus. I specifically skilled minmatar for that particular bonus and still have several ranks in hacking because it is still not fast enough for me. Survival of a logi is more important at this point, the hack bonus is the way to go.

As for lumping everything that isn't shooting as "support", which clearly every other action is. We fight until clones are gone or the MCC is. If you can speed up MCC destruction then maybe you don't need to clone the enemy out. Supply ammo and armor is support, so is shooting people. As for Drop uplinks winning matches, yes they can turn the tide but need to have people running in who can push the enemy back rather than lemming up. A drop uplink by itself without that pusher is useless. Your bonuses changing on all suits is sure to cause a lot of requests for respec after the fact. I don't feel your grasp on the subject matter is sufficient to warrant going over all suits racial bonus and spec bonuses with a change on everything.

I have yet to claim the logi as under powered, although I understand how you may get that feeling. I see the capability of a logi to deploy a massive amount of equipment already as it's greatest strength. I don't feel it needs a buff in that aspect and with the higher sig radius, the hacking bonus keeps it balanced for gameplay unlike what a hacking bonus on a scout suit would do.

Yes the whole team on both sides can see an objective being hacked, but that doesn't mean they can see the hacker or catch them after the hack, which balances a lengthy process of counter hacking an objective. The Logi having that bonus is ideal for countering a hack and can save a team many clones simply by holding on to an objective. They supply the defenders, rep the defenders and provide a quick spawn for defenders.

I would hate to have a scout hanging around defending an objective, they are much more useful running around stealthily and killing your uplinks or nanohives and hacking your objective while you are trying to take the one I am protecting. Ideally I would say that it would benefit a scout to have the hack bonus but feel it would be too much on a scout. The hacking bonus of a logi is not at all a non-support bonus. It is the one aspect of the suit that allows it to step up and take the front lines because it is the best at it. Yes, it is a support bonus, and allows the rest of the team to go on killing while the minmatar logi is taking the points. Turning their back to the crowd of reds so that they don't have to.