First, the Amarr logi has a sidearm slot- it's meant to be the most combat-ready logi. All logis, especially the Amarr, are meant to have non-trivial offensive capabilities. Logis do support, but that's by no means their only job. I should be able to use the LR just as well as an Amarr Assault because this restriction does not apply to any other weapon. I was certainly not saying that the Amarr Logi is less powerful overall than the Amarr assault.

All that's required to circumvent the initial build up time is a little LR preheating behind cover. Or, to put it a different way, the Amarr assault bonus makes a standard LR in their hands perform better than an ADV LR on any other suit.

For the SCR, it actually is very different than a straight clip size increase. The SCR's burst DPS, both with charge shots and uncharged shots, vastly outstrips any other weapon, including the AR. The balancing factor is the heat generation. While reduced heat generation, like clip size, does simply mean that you can fire for longer at a time, the effect on the SCR is very different than the effect on a SMG/SCP/FP. Waiting for heat to reduce is not at all the same as reloading, as you can charge the SCR during that time, or sprint, or throw grenades.

In comparison to the shield extender bonus or the Gal assault, the issue with the Amarr bonus is its extremely specific nature. Stronger shields or saving some PG/CPU is universally good and can be used in every situation, while heat reduction is either useless or incredibly good depending on your choice of weapon.

...is that not the point of a role bonus? To give them a specific role using their native tech? In EVE, almost any combat ship has a 10% to their racial turret damage or fire interval. If you are using a Railgun on a Hurricane, you aren't doing it wrong, but are doing it badly. Same thing here. Put a Laser on the Amarr, and it functions better. Works for me.

It allows you to get out more shots, but it's only important in a situation where overheating or having to pause for heat venting would get you killed. If that fellow vents your skull before you hit 50% heat, having an Amarr suit wouldn't have helped you. If that fellow was taken unawares, but he had a buddy, the Amarr suit may let you have enough heatsink to kill them both.

I posted some thoughs on Tech 1 / Tech 2 bonuses a week or so ago. I put them with some Amarr suits to help illustrate the point.

Assault and Logi:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1283162#post1283162

Here they are for Scouts:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1285669#post1285669

A few thoughts:

A good Assault bonus could be 5% bonus to RoF per level. This is a DPS increase, but also makes it so that Assaults have to reload more often. I put this on my Tech 2 Assaults (in the above threads) to give them a specialized damage boost but keep them reliant on others to provide nanohives and such (my Tech 2 Assaults don't have equipment).

Also, a shield recharge rate bonus over an extenders bonus for the Caldari is perfect. In EVE the Caldari often passive tank their shields, relying on recharge rate to keep them ahead of the damage (Drake). This would go well here in DUST.

Finally, I hope that we get other suits with differing bonuses within the same "class". So two Caldari "Assault" suits; one that benefits CQC hybrid damage and provides and extender bonus (for brawling) and one that benefits range and provides a recharge bonus (for range). Again, just like ships in EVE. The Caldari have a bunch of Frigates, and they all have different bonuses that make them work better in some situations than others.

That's a horrible bonus for gallente, and i don't mean cause it's op i mean cause it's under powered, a measly 1 %, no i think that gallente needs to get something like an armor repair bonus, or a resistance against other plasma weapons/weapons that damage armor.

How things currently work in PC is a bunch of Cal logis running around with duvolles. Logi survivabiliy make them preferable to assaults for assaulting. The extra 1 module slot compared to assaults (or extra 2 mod slots in the case of the Cal logi) is enough to give the logis higher survivability; use it to fit an extra repairer, armor plate, or shield extender.
Not every battle is PC, in fact the overwhelming majority of players who play Dust has never played PC, so its ridiculous to have everything designed for PC.
The fact that certain equipment is not used in PC perhaps means that those equipments need buffs, it doesn't mean that a specialization designed to carry more equipment should not get a bonus to equipment.

The fitting reduction, unless they changed it after I chose my Dropsuit spec, is for Gallente Logi only yes? The bonus being moved to the entire Logi tree makes sense, even if I will miss my free armor reps. The further bonuses to specific equipment are meant to give each Logi a seperate specific role. Is your corp full of heavies and Gallente? Get a few Minmatar Logi to aid your armor reppers so they can afford to brick tank. Do your tactics rely on defending positions? Grab a CalLogi for the extended life hives. Also, I have to rely on the 'EVE does it too' argument here. Take a look at the Scythe here, every bonus is on the Shield Transporter. You COULD equip a remote armor repper to it... if you REALLY wanted to. Mildly brain-damaged, but it can be done.

Secondly, the hives, injectors, and reppers do not 'fail' unless you are milking WP. I don't begrudge you for doing so, but the WP rewards should not be counted as part of the 'effectiveness' of equipment. The GalLogi using the injectors makes sense, as Gal are fast and have decent armor, allowing them to rush out into a non-safe zone and perform triage. The Minny with the repper makes sense as well, as they are the fastest Logi at standard movement speed, so they can keep up with their patients while healing. For these tools in general, the Repair Tool allows for infinite, precision armor repair on the go, while the Injector provides the unequaled service of revival and loss prevention. I can stab people with it and not have it fail, so it works fine in its role. The Repair Tool isn't really underpowered either, it could use a small buff and a Shield version, but the real problem there is the Triage Hives being a tad OP. Even then, the Triage Hives are limited, and run out quickly if abused.

Finally, I won't pretend to know what goes on in PC. As of right now it is a competitive gaming zone, and therefore I feel it is a cancer. However, a bonus should be applied to the GAME, NOT to the competitive metagame. You don't see anyone in competitive TF2 use anything but a select few guns, no matter how many are made and added to the game. This is because the metagame decides which are the best of the best, and people only use them. If a developer designs with the metagame at the forefront, the game itself will wither as a result.

There is a problem most of you are willfully ignoring on the subject of Logis. They are not designed to be equipment mules, they just happen to be thrust into that role via bad foresight. If anything, Scouts are better suited to use Equipment. Logistics just make a good equipment mule due to their high number of slots and high fitting, similar to what makes them as good at killing as Assaults. These bonuses are meant to cinch up each suit's roles and to give each class of suits the roles they were envisioned to have.

Imagine that the game is TF2 for a moment.
Logi is Medic, but can also equip Engineer's wrench and build stuff. Due to Medic's greater speed, HP, and regen, people will always choose Medic over Engie. There is also the fact that in this little universe, Engie does not exist, so they feel that choosing Medic to Engineer is normal.

That is the state of DUST. there is no Engineer role suit, so the Logistics suit is filling in for it. When they get around to fixing the role bonus problems, they will make the Logistics suits actually focus on Logistics, which is EVE slang for Healing. They will then make a new suit for the other Equipment, like the some of the Type-2 suits used to be.

Therefore, I feel that we should make a new class of suits in the OP. The Engineer class.

Minmatar will get bonuses to Remote Explosives due to their speed and lower, but not lowest, scan profile. This may cover all the explosives, like proximity.
Amarr will get bonuses to the Drop Uplink, as they are the slower and tankier ones they will be the ones most familiar with advantageous terrain.
Gallente would hopefully get drones. Sentry drones for point defense, small drones for personal mobile support, etc. Or, they can get the Active Scanner and Point Defense Drones while GalLogi gets bonuses to repair drones.
Caldari, I'm honestly not too sure on. I'm not a major Caldari in any verse, but maybe... Webbifiers? interdiction bubbles? EWAR? Should another suit entirely be EWAR? Help me out here.

EDIT: Make shield repper. Give CalLogi bonus to Shield Repper. Give CalEngie bonus to Nanohives. Boom.

Minmatar Assault needs sorting, 5% to sidearm clip size isn't in anyway useful to me

There's a problem with that. SMG, that works. But that's IT. 5% of the Flaylock's 3 is nothing. 5% of Mass Driver's 6 is nothing. 5% won't work with the Combat Rifle as it's a Burst Rifle. The bonus isn't bad, but it needs work because applying it so braodly makes it only good for one or two weapons, and perfunctory box-checking for the remainder.

Says the alt.

Also, that setup is laughable from my Logistics point of view. It would force anyone who wants to play Logistics to be Caldari, as they are the only ones with an equipment bonus. The Minmatar Assault also has the same problem as this thread's, namely that small clip and burstfire weapons would be screwed over in favor of automatic bullethoses. Furthermore, all the bonuses are generic as hell. MinAss gets bonuses to all Light and Sidearm weapons, for example. That only serves to highlight the ones he decides to keep blindingly narrow, like the Minmatar Scout with ONLY Nova Knives.

Also, he doesn't seem to have any kind of theme running, not even by races or by suit classes. He says each is in its 'role' but its sad that Logi Bro doesn't understand that Logi's are healers...

Anyway, my biggest complaint is that I would be forced to play as a Caldari id I wanted to use ANY of the healing equipment. In EVE, a Scythe is one of THE Logistics ships. It is made for the sole purpose of shield transporting, but other races have equivalents that match their play-style. This would be akin to making the Amarr Logistics ship the only one with armor repper bonuses, and giving the Gallentean Logisticsbonuses to setting space mines. This is why we need an engineer suit, because so many people conflate the equipment slots as the Logistics being an equipment mule. Its like people that think that a Rohk mines better than a Hulk because it has more laser hardpoints. They are dead wrong, but its easy enough to see why they thought that.

Furthermore, all the bonuses are generic as hell.

Bringing up D&D doesn't qualify you as an expert on logistics. There are no defined roles in this game, smart guy, the only reason we have the great in-depth suit customization is so we can do what we want how we want. I can equip an AR and stack damage mods on a logi suit, and there is nothing wrong with that, because there are no defined roles. Like I already said, the only clearly defined aspect of the logistics class is the abundance of equipment slots. That does not in any way set it specifically as a healer.

But I am getting the feeling that I am talking to a brick wall.

These changes are intended to alleviate some of the current issues with the Logistics suits, but theyGÇÖre still not getting us where we want to be with the suits. A technical issue is currently preventing us from authoring suit bonuses that alter equipment functionality. When this is solved weGÇÖll be giving Logistics suits the bonuses they need to make their role truly shine. Bonuses to the range and effectiveness of repair tools; to nanohive capacity and resupply rate and the like. These are the sorts of things that will make logistics players the invaluable squad support they ought to be.

As mentioned above, these skill changes are largely to discourage assault-focused players from using the Logistics suit as their frontline choice. The new Logistics skill bonus isnGÇÖt ideally suited to the Logistics role and is a short-term alteration until proper equipment bonuses come online. Once they do weGÇÖll outline the full skill changes in another blog.

Logistics, while including health care, is more concerned with moving troops, supplies, and equipment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_logistics

To Stile, I know what the term means in dictionary terms, but Logistics is the EVE term for the repairing units that prevent financial loss. If we used the dictionary term for Logistics, then all LAVs, Dropships, and anything that can carry equipment would all count as a 'Logistics' role.

Those are other 'Logistics' functions, but they aren't the main ones. There tend to be other ships built just for these, just as there are ships built just for Shield Transporters/Remote Armor Repairers. Energy Transfer is used to keep capacitor intensive ships cap-stable and targeting links are meant to increase the rotation speed of turrets to allow them to betterd hit smaller/faster targets. Unless they are adding capacitors with the vehicle restructuring, we have no capacitor equivalent in DUST, and even then it would probably be an LLAV or LDS thing. As for targeting links, the only thing I could think of as an analog would just screw with everyone's sensitivity, and that would be a griefing tool, not a Logistics one.

Also, the naming conventions matter Mr. Stile. They are one of the major linking factors between DUST and EVE and give us reasonable expectations of what we are getting into when we choose a specialization. If I chose Heavy but he ended up being the fast, agile, low-HP guy, I'd be damn irritated at the crappy naming, wouldn't you?

A tutorial would be fine, but I do not understand your point. If you want to be the Engineer, you would choose the Engineer suit. Also, Logistics means healer in New Eden, as we have already discussed to clonedeath and CRU, so you should already know that Logistics is Medic. If I went into some other game and didn't bother to learn its naming conventions before settling into a role, I'd probably be in a role I don't like. That makes sense. It's be like playing Final Fantasy and going 'Oh, I'll be a White Mage because they cast spells!' and then being irritated that they only know Cure.