I'd kinda like assault-bonuses to all be weapon-themed, but I can also see the value in espousing tank bonuses there. I wonder if it would be bad to have multiple bonuses per suit-spec.

That is, intead of ONE assault global bonus and ONE racial bonus, have a few bonuses attached to each racial spec.

e.g. -

Assault bonus: 1% damage

Minmatar bonuses
1. Shield/armor module 2% fitting reduction per level
2. 5% Magazine size increase per level for Minmatar weapons: (Combat Rifle, Precision Rifle, Mass Driver, Flaylock, SMG)

Caldari Bonus
1. 5% Shield Extender Efficacy Per Level
2. 3% Caldari Weapon Reload speed: (Sniper Rifle, Swarm Launcher, Rail Rifle, Rail pistol)

Amarr Bonus
1. 4% Armor Plate Efficacy Per Level
2. 5% Heat build-up reduction per level for laser weapons, Scrambler pistol fire-rate increase of 1% per level.

Gallente Bonus
1. 10% Armor Repairer Efficacy per Level
2. 1% Plasma Weapon Fire rate bonus per level, 5% Plasma Cannon Projectile speed increase per level.

Those are just examples, but freed from the idea of singular bonuses - you can give every race a bonus that's both useful for tanking and useful for weaponry/attacking. Having multiple bonuses instead of singular bonuses would also get around having a bonuses to equipment that are overly restrictive on logistics.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't craft exceptions/additional bonuses if you wanted to make sure the Amarr got a bonus to Scrambler pistols or the Mass Driver received a different bonus in lieu of magazine-size either (for example). The current single-bonus system is overly restrictive role-wise and in terms of imagination. We can do better!

Barring that, suit sub-specialties that give those sorts of bonuses would be a good idea. (i.e. at Caldari Assault 3, you unlock sub-skills beneath it on the tree like Caldari Weapon Mastery or Caldari Damage Mitigation).

Did some changes

Assault bonus: 5% light weapon PG/CPU reduction per lv. Assaults are about offense, weapons should be emphasized.
Caldari bonus: 3% range increase of railgun weapons per lv; good for sniper, rail rifle (SoonGäó), & magsec SMG(SoonGäó).
Gallente bonus: 1% damage per level of plasma weapons; AR, shotgun, plasma cannon.
Minmatar bonus: 5% increase in magazine size per lv for projectile & explosive weapons; SMG, flaylock, MD, & Combat rifle (SoonGäó).

Sentinel bonus: 3% resistance to light weapons per lv; this is to emphasize the defensive nature of sentinels.
Am bonus: 2% per lv armor plate + shield extender bonus. Amarr are about HP, and dual tank in Dust (unlike in EVE).
Cal bonus: 5% shield recharge rate per lv.

Read the first paragraph.

Liked it, except the Gallente Assault bonus should be like a unrelated bonus, however appreciable bonus.

Like max ammo, or optimal range for blaster hybrids. Or damage mod efficency

Because relegating the ten percent bonus to a suit will make it the one assault suit to use.

Otherwise, I like it.

That's kind of a good point. I did like when the Assaults just got 1% per level to damage, that was cool. Maybe just give different bonuses for different weapons. Something like: X% reduction to dispersion for assault rifle and shotgun; X% increase to splash radius of plasma cannon.

That's a horrible bonus for gallente, and i don't mean cause it's op i mean cause it's under powered, a measly 1 %, no i think that gallente needs to get something like an armor repair bonus, or a resistance against other plasma weapons/weapons that damage armor.

Maxed out is 5% damage bonus. Think it should be 2% instead (and 10% maxed out)?
Assaults should get bonuses to offense and weapons, not HP things like resistances and repair.

I would like built in repair rates for certain suits, but that's a different issue.

I'm not so sure I like it either, but for a differing reason. It alters TTK, which as we have seen can very easily alter the flow of the entire game. Thinking on it, what are Blasters? High RoF, High DPS, decent reloads, low range. We can't alter RoF as I stated before, we all saw what happened when we altered range profiles with Sharpshooter, reloads are the realm of the Commando, and as of 1.4 we saw what a decreased TTK could do. Mayhaps a further fitting ease would be prudent, as the Gallente are kings of managing power and CPU on a suit, evidenced by the lack of a bulky back mounted structure. Another decent idea would be to cinch up the dispersion rate of Blaster weapons, if they ever get around to widening them up to the level they aught to be.

With the exception of the Amarr logi which is meant to be sort of an assault logi, logis are meant for support; their bonuses should reflect that. HP/regen bonuses belong on sentinels since they are the ones who are truly about HP.

Survivability as a logistics player is key to being able to do their job. Bonuses to their racial survivability source make sense.

Amarr are dual tanked.
Caldari are shield tanked.
Gallente are armor tanked.
Minmatar are speed tanked.


What you have suggested other than amarr would be more fitting as proficiency skills.

Besides that the skills are only useful in pub matches. In a PC match:
- Nobody lives long enough to need more ammo(and chances are that if a hive is dropped it will be destroyed before it uses it's standard amount of clusters - especially now that WP will be gained for destroying equipment).
- Nobody uses injectors as it's usually a suicide mission.
- Very few players use repair tools(even more so now when you can't see friendly health).

Equipment/module/weapon specific bonuses are bad because not everyone uses those items plus their dubious value in end game matches.

The racial bonuses you have suggested would equal a double nerf to logistics players(removing armor repair and giving players a useless racial skill).

General bonuses over specific bonuses are what should be looked at. Things that are useful regardless of your fitting.

Maybe for Caldari the shield becomes hardened vs anti shield weaponry by 1% per level, something similar for Gallente, the Minmatar mobility suggestion I posted earlier.

I hate to ask, but what is a repair tool? Let the flaming begin...Nanohives FTW. BTW there is no good reason to use a repair tool unless you want one member of a squad without a weapon in their hands when I come to shoot them.

I like the hacking bonus, go mess with someone else's racial variant.

I was thinking about the logi suits and while I do like your suggested bonuses Kage, I actually think they might be better off with some reps. Just because if they're always healing/supporting everyone else, there's no one to be healing them. Since they can't shoot themselves with their rep tool (yet), it kinda makes sense to give them some passive armor reps. So how about just giving the dropsuits themselves an armor repair rate of 1HP/s or something like that, just like the Minmatar assault suit. Of course, this would also mean thinking of a new passive bonus for the Amarr logi, unless you just wanna keep it and let the reps stack.

Currently all dropsuits have a base armor repair rate of 0.0 (except minmatar non-logistics). Dropsuits that are better suited to armor tanking could have a base higher armor repair rate.

This is an example of what it could be like:
Light Frames
Caldari: 0
Minmatar: 0
Amarr: 1
Galente: 2

Medium Frames Logistics base skill should not give a base repair rate for this to work.
Caldari: 0
Minmatar: 1
Armarr: 2
Gallente: 3

Heavy Frames
Caldary: 1
Minmatar: 2
Amarr: 3
Galente: 4

This is needed because for armor tanking, one needs to put armor repairs to be viable and 1 repper is usaully is not enough, and using multiple reppers greatly reduces tanking capabilities. By comparison, shield tankers can end up with similar amounts of HP, and still have a much higher regeneration rate. So, the more armor-based a suit is, the more it needs inherent repair rates.

How things currently work in PC is a bunch of Cal logis running around with duvolles. Logi survivabiliy make them preferable to assaults for assaulting. The extra 1 module slot compared to assaults (or extra 2 mod slots in the case of the Cal logi) is enough to give the logis higher survivability; use it to fit an extra repairer, armor plate, or shield extender.
Not every battle is PC, in fact the overwhelming majority of players who play Dust has never played PC, so its ridiculous to have everything designed for PC.
The fact that certain equipment is not used in PC perhaps means that those equipments need buffs, it doesn't mean that a specialization designed to carry more equipment should not get a bonus to equipment.

Currently PC is all about forge guns and mass drivers from high locations - far fewer Caldari logistics suits recently(since it's debuff).

PG and CPU reduction to equipment is a bonus to equipment. An additional bonus to specific equipment isn't really a bonus(especially if that equipment goes unused). The logistics class doesn't need another bonus to equipment.

The failure of injectors, hives, and repair tools can not be fixed by any kind of buff as the issues are in their core mechanics.

As for balancing for PC, any bonus that works in PC will work in pubs while the inverse is not true.

Armor tanking classes need base armor repair. Have skills that add 1 armor/s per level for Amarr and Gallente heavy/medium/light. I dont like my 500 armor taking a full 3 minutes to heal. 1 kill every 3 minutes amounts to 5 kills a game if I never died and always lost all my armor. Shields don't have to worry about that.

it is kindof the point of shields, but that said shields are abit too sturdy and armor abit too fragile when you take into account their native repair rates. Maybe a skill within the tree, Amarr Armor Repair and Gallente Armore Repair, etc, each raising at levels that make sense for their race. Maybe a few more 'core' skills like that are needed to help flesh the races, throw it all into role bonuses and things get abit murky on the stats page...

The fitting reduction, unless they changed it after I chose my Dropsuit spec, is for Gallente Logi only yes? The bonus being moved to the entire Logi tree makes sense, even if I will miss my free armor reps. The further bonuses to specific equipment are meant to give each Logi a seperate specific role. Is your corp full of heavies and Gallente? Get a few Minmatar Logi to aid your armor reppers so they can afford to brick tank. Do your tactics rely on defending positions? Grab a CalLogi for the extended life hives. Also, I have to rely on the 'EVE does it too' argument here. Take a look at the Scythe here, every bonus is on the Shield Transporter. You COULD equip a remote armor repper to it... if you REALLY wanted to. Mildly brain-damaged, but it can be done.

Secondly, the hives, injectors, and reppers do not 'fail' unless you are milking WP. I don't begrudge you for doing so, but the WP rewards should not be counted as part of the 'effectiveness' of equipment. The GalLogi using the injectors makes sense, as Gal are fast and have decent armor, allowing them to rush out into a non-safe zone and perform triage. The Minny with the repper makes sense as well, as they are the fastest Logi at standard movement speed, so they can keep up with their patients while healing. For these tools in general, the Repair Tool allows for infinite, precision armor repair on the go, while the Injector provides the unequaled service of revival and loss prevention. I can stab people with it and not have it fail, so it works fine in its role. The Repair Tool isn't really underpowered either, it could use a small buff and a Shield version, but the real problem there is the Triage Hives being a tad OP. Even then, the Triage Hives are limited, and run out quickly if abused.

Finally, I won't pretend to know what goes on in PC. As of right now it is a competitive gaming zone, and therefore I feel it is a cancer. However, a bonus should be applied to the GAME, NOT to the competitive metagame. You don't see anyone in competitive TF2 use anything but a select few guns, no matter how many are made and added to the game. This is because the metagame decides which are the best of the best, and people only use them. If a developer designs with the metagame at the forefront, the game itself will wither as a result.

I like the equipment fitting reduction skill(I like the HP/s more but it seems to be the most hated thing the logistics suits currently have so whatever).

The problem with using the Scythe as an example is that it's designed specifically for one thing while the logistics suit is designed for many things.

Hives, injectors, and repair tools work just fine in pubs. They fail utterly in PC except in extremely rare circumstances but resources used by them would be better used elsewhere at all other times.

I'm not asking that the bonuses be focused on PC, what I want are bonuses that are useful in the entire game(both pubs and PC). That being said I believe that if a bonus is useful in PC it will be useful in pubs.

That about right? Sounds like these bonuses would fix that somewhat, giving the assault suits the power to be the weapons guys, and the Logis the repair aptitude to be allowed to drop their gun once in a while.

The Minmatar would need to be changed to a higher percentage to prevent it from being a dead skill - at least 10% per level(25% of 2 is less than 3).

Actually, what it does is kills versatility in a role designed for diversity.

I did some thinking on the logistics bonuses and like I mentioned earlier in the topic, the need to be more generalized while being equipment oriented instead of tied down to a single piece of equipment that you're not always going to carry given the circumstances you need to adapt to in a single battle. Also, we're going to get more equipment at some point and for a class meant to use equipment, shouldn't their bonuses affect as much of it as possible?

Gallente: +5% to equipment range per level. Instead of being tied to one thing, you get a bonus that can affect the effective range of nanohives, reppers, the active scanner, the blast radius for REs/Mines and can fit with other equipment we might get later like target painters, bubble shields, webifiers... etc.

Amarr: +5% to armor repair module efficacy per level. Honestly, there's really nothing wrong with the Amarr bonus. It fits with the suit as an assault/logi hybrid and since it affects armor repair on a suit that only gets 4 low slots at prototype it's not overpowering. The only change I would make is to extend that bonus to reactive plates as well to add more flexability to the suit's armor tanking options.

Caldari: -5% to equipment cooldown per level. Similar to the Gallete, this would affect a broader range of equipment instead of one thing, but just like the Gallente, focus on reusable equipment. This would apply to the active scanner, but later down the road any and all equipment that would have a cooldown like anything EWAR related.

Before I go into the Minmatar bonus, I still don't see what the issue is for a suit bonus that only works in 2/3 of the game's available modes. I'd rather keep the hacking bonus since it's what everyone wants logistics to be- non combat oriented. But if the bonus has to go, I'd suggest something like this.

Minmatar: +5% to deployed equipment carried per level. At max level this would affect how many nanohives, uplinks, and later on bubble shields, proximity scanners, decoys, or any other deployed equipment that would come into the game.