DUST Search - Announcement:Update on Uprising 1.5

Vell0cet wrote:

Chances Ghost wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

gbh08 wrote:

Like, i look at eve with the sh!t ton of ships and modules, and naturally think ccp's a bit of a boss at this kind of thing, whats making it so difficult?

It's taken EVE 10 years of balancing to get there, and there are still OP weapons, modules and ships. They are working on a game wide ship rebalance and it's going to take a long time to get through them all. It's a slow and difficult process.

the wierd part is they diddnt bring any of that balancing experiance to dust.

they are making mistakes in dust that they learned to fix in eve

I think that's a fair criticism. The lack of a testing environment for players to submit feedback has been one of the most outstanding issues from my perspective. I can't imagine trying to develop a game on the scale of DUST with a limited team and no test server for players to beta test upcoming changes. A lot of the major hiccups might have been caught earlier like the TAC-AR issues at the launch of Uprising, or the shotgun hit detection bug in 1.4. I also think CCP is improving it's approach and getting the community involved earlier in the process (as evidenced by this thread). Yes it can be more painful, and you're going to have to deal with more whining on the forums, but the released content will be much better.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
THE LEGENDARY WARRIOR THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 1	Posted - 2013.09.18 20:42:00 - [181] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Chances Ghost wrote: Vell0cet wrote: gbh08 wrote: Like, i look at eve with the sh!t ton of ships and modules, and naturally think ccp's a bit of a boss at this kind of thing, whats making it so difficult? It's taken EVE 10 years of balancing to get there, and there are still OP weapons, modules and ships. They are working on a game wide ship rebalance and it's going to take a long time to get through them all. It's a slow and difficult process. the wierd part is they diddnt bring any of that balancing experiance to dust. they are making mistakes in dust that they learned to fix in eve I think that's a fair criticism. The lack of a testing environment for players to submit feedback has been one of the most outstanding issues from my perspective. I can't imagine trying to develop a game on the scale of DUST with a limited team and no test server for players to beta test upcoming changes. A lot of the major hiccups might have been caught earlier like the TAC-AR issues at the launch of Uprising, or the shotgun hit detection bug in 1.4. I also think CCP is improving it's approach and getting the community involved earlier in the process (as evidenced by this thread). Yes it can be more painful, and you're going to have to deal with more whining on the forums, but the released content will be much better. the problem with that is: who would be invited to the test server? If its only people from select corps or CPMs then the results will obviously be biased based on their philosophy of balance. the CCP testers only check to make sure it functions (whatever is being tested) as the program predicts it should, and mark any errors (with the limited time they have). if random players were used a more objective result could be achieved. Ideally, if they were to implement said changes to permit the player base access to a test server, the best test results would be a result of the followoing: random players pulled into the servers (they will receive a message in game telling them that they have been chosen and on which day they would be drafted into the server) new players (if available) should be drafted in their as well. (their performance and feedback , if any, would provide clues as to it s general impact on the game CCP testers should play on the test server as well. what would happen is you would have the perspective of the dev's, experienced random players from the community and new players. effectively covering all bases. All final decisions should of course by made by DEVs (if it works as intended it works as intended for balance regardless of the QQ)
XERO CHAOS TACTICAL STRIKE ELITE 6	Posted - 2013.09.18 20:45:00 - [182] - Quote FIX THE CORE GAMEPLAY FIRST 4 EXAMPLE HIT-TRACKING STILL A FAIL
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2125	Posted - 2013.09.18 20:46:00 - [183] - Quote lordjanuz wrote: Skihids wrote: I've been in IT over 30 years and I've learned that development time is far from predictable. That's why development groups tend not to give dates to customers. I've been badgered for a "wild guess" as to when a particular feature might be ready. Once they get that (probably optimistic) date they cast it in concrete and tell everyone that is "The Date". The only defense is use a vauge term like "SOON (TM)". I'd love to tell you my estimate, but you won't understand that it's contingent and may change. I can have fixed release dates, but then the content has to be flexible. Sometimes new content just takes longer to develop than estimated. Estimates are very imprecise at the start of the process and get more precise as the job progresses. Vehicle balance and 1.5 turns out to be a case where it's going to take longer than estimated. If I have an understanding customer I'll give them my roadmap and current status to the plan. That gives them an idaa of the progress. I would love it if CCP treated us as understanding customers. Some of us are, but then there are enough folks who don't understand the imprecise nature of estimating project timing and latch on to any estimate as a promise. Some of us have been here since the beginning. So dont talk to us like someone that not understand things. Did I not say that some of us understand the nature of software development? It only takes a vocal few who don't understand the process to raise a huge stink that makes the developers duck and hide.
SHOCKNOFSKY H.Y.S.T.E.R.I.A 17	Posted - 2013.09.18 20:47:00 - [184] - Quote I am happy about what is happening with 1.5. Considering I just started a corp which is growing the roles will be nice, and I don't want to invest sp into new stuff that will be changed again, and again for a while. I am also very interested in the wp rewards.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 612	Posted - 2013.09.18 20:49:00 - [185] - Quote Jinx Rollin wrote: Entitled much? ** off **! ^ guy right here not feeling the potential benefits of reccomended changes
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 612	Posted - 2013.09.18 20:53:00 - [186] - Quote How to balance Dust 514: Put an army of me in a test server and I'll point out the flaws.
Poultryge1st Da Short Buss 3	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:02:00 - [187] - Quote Thanks for keeping us in the loop Logibro. I'm looking forward to seeing the devblogs about the remade tanks. I'm sure we can figure some way to make it all work.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 543	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:04:00 - [188] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: How to balance Dust 514: Put an army of me in a test server and I'll point out the flaws. Of course why didn't we think of that lets take some random nitwit from the forums, put in a "test" server and watch the magic, I mean its not like the devs have qualifications in game design or anything!!
Flux Raeder WarRavens League of Infamy 258	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:06:00 - [189] - Quote Gringo Nos wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: calisk galern wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: nope. they've been dead silent except telling us that it was planned for 1.4, then moved to 1.5, and I'm pretty sure that when that gets close, they'll push it to 1.6, then 7, then 2.0, then they'll just announce that they're flat out lying to us and vehicles are actually getting nerfed deeper into the ground. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1183027#post1183027 Called it, over a month ago. How does anyone maintain faith in CCP at this point? or ....vehicles are just really hard to balance, feel free to tell us how you would do it so we can promply point out all the flaws in your plan. HP buffs to all vehicles barring LAVs(~5%), minor damage nerfs to AV(~5%) weaponry, AV grenades become contact grenades with high damage, but a tiny radius(flaylock LV.1 sized, you want your massive damage, you earn it). 15% price reduction across the board for vehicles and turrets(modules seem just about right in pricing V. effectiveness). seems like a decent start, not a huge rework(they have the code for contact grenades in already), its all just a numbers shift. Quite like these ideas and they don't seem op either. The ideas aren't too bad, but only if they add sticky remote explosives. Homing Av grenades were always a bit bs but a tank should really have to worry about someone getting right up to you, 3 sticky re's should destroy a proto tank, 1-2 for militia. What with the option for turrets to be removed this would provide incentive to keep them on so you can have a gunner keeping runners away.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 256	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:15:00 - [190] - Quote I'll take this as progress in CCP Shanghai learning not to release broken stuff.

Flux Raeder WarRavens League of Infamy 260	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:18:00 - [191] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: I'll take this as progress in CCP Shanghai learning not to release broken stuff. And for that you deserve not just a cookie but a full on bacon donut.
LudiKure ninda Black Phoenix Mercenaries 17	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:19:00 - [192] - Quote Vehicle engineering 5% PG per level!!! give us at least that...
ghjl ghjkl Patriotic Investment Group Inc. 6	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:22:00 - [193] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Hey guys So as was posted by CCP Saberwing, a couple of things have been pushed back that were originally going to be in Uprising 1.5. The two big ones are the vehicle changes and the new weapons. I'm sure you're wondering why. At this stage, we didn't feel happy with how they were and instead of putting them out half way we decided to put some more time into working on them. So this means they are just delayed. However, there is some good news. What this also means is that we'll be posting what we have so far on the forums starting next week for you guys to give feedback before any of this stuff hits Tranquility. This will allow you to give us your take on what's coming soon to a marketplace near you. This will include both the vehicle changes, changed rifle ranges and the new weapon stats. We still have some new stuff coming in 1.5 such as Squad Finder, Corp Roles, New WP rewards and the first set of new tutorials. I would ask that you keep all discussion of this to this thread, and I will be locking and directing any other threads on this matter to this thread. Thanks for your patience and understanding guys. We're looking forward to your feedback. (And if you're wondering where the vehicle feedback thread went to, it's been moved to Feedback/Requests to make room on GD front page.) I can wait... I hope for epic awesomeness.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 612	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:26:00 - [194] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: How to balance Dust 514: Put an army of me in a test server and I'll point out the flaws. Of course why didn't we think of that lets take some random nitwit from the forums, put in a "test" server and watch the magic, I mean its not like the devs have qualifications in game design or anything!! This "nitwit" happens to be one of the best Dust players. Biggest mistakes from devs so far: 1. Crippling vehicles update after update until vehicle PG change happened 2. Initial moments of TAR/Flaylock in Uprising and Proto Laser rifle being untouched in Chromosone 3. Failing to establish great interactions between EVE and Dust players after hyping it on Uprising, "B-but muh EVE support!" 4. Logi Suits are Officer class Assault suits 4. The current Battle Academy Minor stuff: 1. Commando and Plasma Cannon is hyped, turns out to be underwhelming 2. (Today) Warbarge timer reduced, we are now to deploy in battle without proper preparations
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 257	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:30:00 - [195] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: changed rifle ranges and the new weapon stats. I cringe in fear at this part. Is this going to be another wholesale kneejerk to various weapon whinges where the whole weapon base gets its stats turned on its head? They just fixed weapon ranges so it feel like an actual shooter, what's the bet they undo all this work and we're back to not being able to hit anyone unless we have our rifle stuck up their nose?
Our Deepest Regret Algintal Core Gallente Federation 251	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:50:00 - [196] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Nick nugg3t wrote: so let me get this straight. new weapons will NOT be coming out In 1.5? Not in 1.5. We're aiming for 1.6, but that's not going to be confirmed till we get closer to it's release date. Ha. I feel bad for you, Logibro. Our real dad lets up stay up until ten and watch HBO, but you have to step in and be the bad guy. I hate this place! I wanna live with mom!
Dysnomia Pandora Third Rock From The Sun 23	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:53:00 - [197] - Quote Just forget about 1.5 and make this game work the right way before adding stuff. And stop the aurum gear pls, ccp aint worth real money atm. And btw it gives you guys a bad image.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 246	Posted - 2013.09.18 21:55:00 - [198] - Quote THE LEGENDARY WARRIOR wrote: the problem with that is: who would be invited to the test server? ... Everyone. I started a thread a few months ago about how CCP could implement a testing range using existing assets with fairly minimal development time a few months ago. I linked to it earlier in this thread, but I guessed you might have missed it. The basic idea is players could spawn into a map with preloaded static NPCs that the player could shoot. he could invite friends into his map (team killing is on), everyone has infinite SP in this mode and everything costs 0 ISK. You don't earn any ISK or SP or any other stats from the kills you make there, it's just for testing. Because it's not a real match, there are certain bugs that won't be caught here, but it should give people an idea of how well future weapons will affect things. Read the thread for the full explanation, and please post feedback there if you have ideas/criticisms etc.
Awesome Pantaloons Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 35	Posted - 2013.09.18 22:21:00 - [199] - Quote Make those weapons amazing and get the vehicle balancing right, then we shall consider it worth the wait. lol I hope for greatness. In the mean time, I'm looking forward to the corp roles and whatnot. Can't wait to hear more about what's coming in both updates.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES EoN. 238	Posted - 2013.09.18 22:23:00 - [200] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Hey guys So as was posted by CCP Saberwing, a couple of things have been pushed back that were originally going to be in Uprising 1.5. The two big ones are the vehicle changes and the new weapons. I'm sure you're wondering why. At this stage, we didn't feel happy with how they were and instead of putting them out half way we decided to put some more time into working on them. So this means they are just delayed. However, there is some good news. What this also means is that we'll be posting what we have so far on the forums starting next week for you guys to give feedback before any of this stuff hits Tranquility. This will allow you to give us your take on what's coming soon to a marketplace near you. This will include both the vehicle changes, changed rifle ranges and the new weapon stats. We still have some new stuff coming in 1.5 such as Squad Finder, Corp Roles, New WP rewards and the first set of new tutorials. I would ask that you keep all discussion of this to this thread, and I will be locking and directing any other threads on this matter to this thread. Thanks for your patience and understanding guys. We're looking forward to your feedback. (And if you're wondering where the vehicle feedback thread went to, it's been moved to Feedback/Requests to make room on GD front page.) Go yell at whoever made that decision to push back new content. Even if yall are unhappy with where its at right now the best thing you can do is just release it and let us play with it to give you better feedback. If it's broken we can tell you right away that it is, and not wait for yall to release it a month or two later only to have it still broken. Holy hell, is your development drunk when they make these decisions? there are no good things that will come out of this decision. People need something to play with. PC is boring, pubs is boring, and most of all dust is boring for people that have been here since the start of the year. We need content, real content. not weapons, suits, and vehicles that should have been out day one of release. We want a real eve/dust link, a real economy, PVE, and just more fun stuff other than the same crap everyday. you should have been doing this from the start. it is too late now. "What this also means is that we'll be posting what we have so far on the forums starting next week for you guys to give feedback before any of this stuff hits Tranquility. This will allow you to give us your take on what's coming soon to a marketplace near you. "

Blaze Ashra Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.09.18 22:26:00 - [201] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: nope. they've been dead silent except telling us that it was planned for 1.4, then moved to 1.5, and I'm pretty sure that when that gets close, they'll push it to 1.6, then 7, then 2.0, then they'll just announce that they're flat out lying to us and vehicles are actually getting nerfed deeper into the ground. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1183027#post1183027 Called it, over a month ago. How does anyone maintain faith in CCP at this point? or ....vehicles are just really hard to balance, feel free to tell us how you would do it so we can promply point out all the flaws in your plan. Vehicle specific Let shield transporters and Remote Armor repairers work on infantry. Give war points for repairing vehicles/infantry. Give 25 wp per spawn on a MCRU. Give 5 WP every 15 consecutive seconds per passenger. Add a lock vehicle icon on the module that would function like a full vehicle. Let passengers see what you can with active scanners. Show the vehicles modules to passengers. Vehicle vs Vehicle Triple the shield boost so they have the same survivability as armor. Increase missiles splash radius 4.5meters. Give dropships the ability to cycle through the 3 views with R3. Try to get the rendering issue fixed, at minimum render installations and tanks at all ranges. Add prototype modules by taking the delta from standard to advanced, adding it from advanced to make prototype. Make basic afterburner faster than militia. Make small rail guns emulate large rail guns (ie. no dropping, long range weapons that hit their targets), increase direct damage by 10, 15, 20% per teir. Make advanced and prototype shield hardeners that have 5 seconds delta per teir. If limiting our ammo buff weapons damage. Give the enforcer tanks at least the same CPU/PG as militia... Make engineering skill give a 5% PG boost per level. AV & Vehicles. Adding prototype modules will go along way for this. Add Countermeasures: Cloaking Disable visual rendering for 3 seconds per teir, 30 second cooldown, locks all turrets while cloaked. Flares Swarms will target flairs for 3 seconds per tier 30 second cooldown Radar Enhancer Make an AV indicator that last 1 second per tier after a hit similar to objective locations, same with vehicles and installations.. Make proximity mines deal 1500 and give no warning. Vehicles & Infantry. For the most part vehicles do pretty well against infantry. Would like vehicle cargo that functions like infantry equipment slots but that will be a later request. Not trying to make them over powered, just more survivable, useful and worthwhile. And yes I realize all that would be alot to ask for but I think that would address everything except advanced/protoype vehicles, new vehilces and racial variants. Anything I should elaborate on?
Absolute Idiom II No Free Pass 729	Posted - 2013.09.18 22:27:00 - [202] - Quote TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: Mindless drivel Release it broken? Just like matchmaking, yeah? Are you being serious? Honestly, do you even check the word you write for consistency of logic?
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES EoN. 238	Posted - 2013.09.18 22:33:00 - [203] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote: Mindless drivel Release it broken? Just like matchmaking, yeah? Are you being serious? Honestly, do you even check the word you write for consistency of logic? yep. If you've been from the start of the year you will know they usually use the excuse of keeping things back because it is broken. Then a month or two later, guess what, it is still broken. Just like matchmaking. so they just wasted months of development time to break a broken mechanic. instead they can do the best they can and release it. if it is broken we can tell them and they can get right on it. it only took them what a week and a half to improve the matchmaking glitches? I'm pretty sure my post was based around logic.
Absolute Idiom II No Free Pass 732	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:11:00 - [204] - Quote 1) I've been here since May 2012. 2) you clearly have no clue about how agile development works. Things that are not ready are SUPPOSED to be kept back for the next development cycle. 3) I honestly have no idea why you would think that releasing something actually broken and unfinished would be acceptable to the player-base at large. For one thing: you have absolutely no idea how bad/broken it is. How dare you demand something unknown be released. That is what is completely illogical.
Gloomy Cobra Hostile Acquisition Inc The Superpowers 50	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:11:00 - [205] - Quote So no vehicle anyhting this patch? not even a little buff or update? Please answer cuz i've been waiting for ever for 1.5.....My heart right now is beating way faster than it should, please answer as soon as possible
Alex Smoke The Nommo Insurance Fraud. 67	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:25:00 - [206] - Quote CCP Shanghai, where the incompetent get to keep their jobs.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:27:00 - [207] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: 1) I've been here since May 2012. 2) you clearly have no clue about how agile development works. Things that are not ready are SUPPOSED to be kept back for the next development cycle. 3) I honestly have no idea why you would think that releasing something actually broken and unfinished would be acceptable to the player-base at large. For one thing: you have absolutely no idea how bad/broken it is. How dare you demand something unknown be released. That is what is completely illogical. If this was any other game i would agree with you, but this is CCP. when have you known them to release something that wasn't completely broken and needed multiple patches, or worse, months to fix? Now they are going to try to keep us in the know about the upcoming updates. I think it's too little too late. Many weapons and suits were released really broken and it took them months to fix, even though we told them just by looking at the stats that is was a bad idea. let it be known we only got a week in advanced to look at these stats, and we were ignored. imagine what we can do with a full month. My point of view is that they are wasting time doing all these delays only to get nothing really done and driving whats left of the community away. I see your point of view and it does make sense in theory, but in practice it will only hurt CCP.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 673	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:33:00 - [208] - Quote Well if you do a infantry patch an fix the scouts an heavies an still come with the knive fixes I'm cool but can't speak for everyone else, also hope you fixed that shotgun problem
Eurydice Itzhak Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 211	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:34:00 - [209] - Quote I've been too busy playing ffxiv to care about dust much anymore but this is hilarious. Vehicle fixes were alluded to happen in 1.3. Now maybe 1.6 if you're lucky? Take a page from ffxiv's book. Take your crap down. Work on it for a year. Release a good game.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 75	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:44:00 - [210] - Quote Please tell me they at least fixed the stupid additional stacking penalty for vehicals.



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