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Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 21:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The assault forge gun is overpowered. Yeah, I said it.
Now before you kids start whining at me "BOOO NO ITS NOT F**K YOU" and all your worthless crap I hear every day on here, grab your panties and a lemonade, because its time for a little logic put in your head. I'm going to go through all 5 reasons why the assault forge gun is overpowered, and should be nerfed--or removed--in the next patch, if not sooner.
1. Let's start with the name itself. "Assault." Hmm... aren't those the weapons that do less/the same damage, with a higher rate of fire?
Scrambler Pistol: Damage: 80.0 Rate of Fire: 400.0 RPM Clip Size: 6
Assault Scrambler Pistol: Damage: 80.0 Rate of Fire: 422.5 RPM Clip size: 6
You have the idea now. Lets go to something that has a closer... "personality" to the FG.
EXO-5 Mass Driver: Direct Damage: 254.1 Splash Damage: 121.8 Blast Radius: 4.2m Clip Size: 6 Rate of Fire: 60.0 RPM
EC-3 Assault Mass Driver: Direct Damage: 152.5 Splash Damage: 73.1 Blast Radius: 6.3m Clip Size: 8 Rate of Fire: 75.0 RPM
Seems normal, right? An assault variant of a weapon does less damage, but can fire faster and with a higher blast radius. Now, take a look at your beloved forge gun's stats when it's compared in the same way...
9K330 Forge Gun: Direct Damage: 1452.0 Splash Damage: 254.1 Blash Radius: 2.8m Charge-Up Time: 3.5s
DAU-2/A Assault Forge Gun: Direct Damage: 1524.6 Splash Damage: 254.1 Blast Radius: 2.8m Charge-Up Time: 2.5s
Wait, what's the deal? It's an assault variant; why is it doing more damage than the counterpart normal advanced FG? Because it's overpowered.
2. Now, I know that the main defense against the AFG is the fact it cannot store a charge (this has been proven by people I know... it was the first fact they turned to when I brought the topic up). Well, let me give you the science behind that one as well. Whenever I use a forge gun--for its intended purpose as an anti-vehicle weapon--I almost never store the charge. I find my target, charge, and let go as soon as it's finished. Not to mention that the charge-up time is so quick for the payload it gives out, that it's almost 100% irrelevant that the charge cannot be stored. You can, 99% of the time, get the shot out before anyone can blow enough bullets out to get rid of the 700+ health you have. "Just get close to them dumbass" Let me counter you now.
3. Since 99.6565476537% of people whom use this player-dubbed anti-infantry weapon are above their target, either on a building, or on an elevated mountain/hill, they have two advantages on the average player already: -- Unable to be hit by the mass driver/flaylock, since they are trajectory weapons that have serious trouble hitting targets above them -- The ability to get away from a target by using the enemy's POV to have the building block their view. The forge gunner can then charge, step back out, and fire, all within 1 second; a time that is literally impossible for ANYONE, save a very lucky counter FG, to kill him in time.
So, it's extremely powerful, and almost impossible to counter? The defenses on this gun are dwindling further and further down. But oh, I still have over 2800 characters left. I ain't done with you kids yet!
Now, to defend the above fact even more...
4. Even at a range where a forge gunner cannot move out of the way (or if we were to assume that they are on an unprotected mountain side), the assault rifle--the most common soldier's weapon on the battlefield--against a target any further than 100 meters away is less than 50%, meaning they'd be lucky to tickle off half of the forge gunner's shields before being blown up. If you had as many damage mods as you could possibly fit, plus a Duvolle AR, plus proficiency level 5, PLUS sharpshooter level 5... you'd still probably get blown up. Snipers aren't really at that much better of a position. 3 successive shots from the TSR (tactical sniper rifle) will deal about 600 damage (3 successive headshots are virtually impossible; after the first shot the target panics, flailing wildly, making landing a shot on the head, which is already difficult against a heavy, a fat chance). This is about 60% of an average heavy's health, or 80%-90% of a MLT heavy (but if you're using a militia heavy suit with a DAU-2/A, you're even more of a noob). A very weak one may be killed if they got a headshot initially. The CSR (charge sniper rifle) doesn't have it all that much better, all matters considered (charge time, delay between shots, etc.). You'd probably kill their shields, but the second shot would have to be luck of the draw with their surroundings, hoping they don't have a hill or other covering device to hide behind until they get their shields back. But, I'm getting off topic; heavies are supposed to be difficult to snipe anyway.
So, let's review: Can't be killed by assault rifles Can't be killed by snipers Can't be killed by mass drivers/flaylocks Can't be killed by laser rifles (what can?) Can't be killed by really any sidearm
There's only three ways I've found to kill them: 1. Waste a 75,000 dropship, fly to where they are with a few others, pile him from behind and hope he didn't see your dropship take off and shoot it down in 5 seconds anyway. 2. Counterforge from another building (which requires a dropship which they may shoot down anyway) or from an elevated position 3. A very lucky plasma cannon shot when they peek out
... 3 ways to kill someone, two of which require losing 40% of your match's earnings (and could fail anyway), and one requiring luck (which I have 0% of)? No. Just no.
Oh, and I haven't even touched on its power against vehicles. Yeah, I've used an entire post and I haven't even said every problem with it. Long story short: Madrugars are dead in 10 seconds. Yeah, OP.
Now review what I've said with an open mind. And we'll put a stop to it.
Exio out. |
Smooth Assassin
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Damn right you said it and shut up don't nerf scrambler assault pistol they are meant to be heavier as in CPU and PG |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Smooth Assassin wrote:Damn right you said it and shut up don't nerf scrambler assault pistol they are meant to be heavier as in CPU and PG
Oh, I'm not hating on scrambler pistols. They're balanced and effective when in the right hands. That was just one of the examples. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1248
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
well yea this is true. |
Thurak1
Psygod9
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
If there is such a problem with forge sniping why dont people complain more about snipers in general? Forge gunners dont get the nice zoom scope and are very slow moving unlike a sniper. A good sniper changes positions. Forge gunners are unlikely to change positions till killed. Also your experiance with charge and shoot does not speak for everyone. I myself have never really gotten used to it and find it much harder to aim if the weapon shoots as soon as its charged unless i am shooting a tank those things are pretty easy to hit especially from above. But if i am tank hunting i am using my breach proto forge ( starts with a w ) to shoot those with a damage mod. Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with
The forge gun snipers that are REALLY effective pair up with a logi so really forge guns are not OP but more like very effective in the right circumstances. If i go it alone and fly a dropship up to a hi spot I have at most 16 shots to use before i have to reload. Snipers can operate much more effectivly from the same spot a forge gunner might use because they get to carry nanohives if they wish and might be able to stay in that same spot all match. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote: Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with
- A forge gun can be fired almost immediately after the first shot - Yet 2 shots will kill pretty much anyone because it's not hard to aim with something that's a massive ball of energy that blows up - That's enough to kill 2-4 people - So? - Again, so? They'll hide behind walls and the ground below them - The reticule turns red any time you have a shot, meaning all you need to do is get that giant ass reticule on the speck in the distance to do the splash damage... we're not even discussing direct hits. |
Thurak1
Psygod9
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Exionous wrote:Thurak1 wrote: Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with
- A forge gun can be fired almost immediately after the first shot - Yet 2 shots will kill pretty much anyone because it's not hard to aim with something that's a massive ball of energy that blows up - That's enough to kill 2-4 people - So? - Again, so? They'll hide behind walls and the ground below them - The reticule turns red any time you have a shot, meaning all you need to do is get that giant ass reticule on the speck in the distance to do the splash damage... we're not even discussing direct hits.
first point totally incorrect. Unless by immediate you mean 1.5 seconds. Charge time NEVER changes. 2 also incorrect the actual size of the ball plays nearly no part in hit detection. How is that different from a good sniper. Totally situational. splash damadge almost never means instant kill. Have you ever even used a forge gun or are you bent over and trying to talk using gas and movement of your hands? |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1250
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:If there is such a problem with forge sniping why dont people complain more about snipers in general? Forge gunners dont get the nice zoom scope and are very slow moving unlike a sniper. A good sniper changes positions. Forge gunners are unlikely to change positions till killed. Also your experiance with charge and shoot does not speak for everyone. I myself have never really gotten used to it and find it much harder to aim if the weapon shoots as soon as its charged unless i am shooting a tank those things are pretty easy to hit especially from above. But if i am tank hunting i am using my breach proto forge ( starts with a w ) to shoot those with a damage mod. Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with
The forge gun snipers that are REALLY effective pair up with a logi so really forge guns are not OP but more like very effective in the right circumstances. If i go it alone and fly a dropship up to a hi spot I have at most 16 shots to use before i have to reload. Snipers can operate much more effectivly from the same spot a forge gunner might use because they get to carry nanohives if they wish and might be able to stay in that same spot all match. snipers rarely change spots until the realize they have been spotted or need ammo. snipers also have to hit their target to do damage and do less damage then FG splash unless they get a headshot which is harder then getting a splash hit on the FG by a massive amount on moving targets. btw the FG isn't a hard weapon to no scope with and get direct hits with even at near max ranges. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
I have used a forge gun before, thats how I know so much about it. After firing, I am able to immediately charge the second shot. And come to think of it, I think I've seen you up on the top of a building using an assault forge gun before. Sooo what you're saying is just the ignorant bullsh**t coming out of your mouth to try to protect your precious gun, which is probably the only thing you can get a kill with? So, you know, the next time you want to try to counter, you had might as well try to get some better evidence. Your half a page of lies versus my entire post worth of copious amounts of evidence, 99% of which is true, some may be by chance or faltered, since every merc and every shot is different. Now, I'm not going to rack up 2 pages worth of going back and forth with you, because that's just stupid and not worth my time. You'll get your last word, but no one will listen to it. Except your friends on the roof. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
ladwar wrote: Snipers can operate much more effectivly from the same spot a forge gunner might use because they get to carry nanohives if they wish and might be able to stay in that same spot all match. snipers rarely change spots until the realize they have been spotted or need ammo. snipers also have to hit their target to do damage and do less damage then FG splash unless they get a headshot which is harder then getting a splash hit on the FG by a massive amount on moving targets. btw the FG isn't a hard weapon to no scope with and get direct hits with even at near max ranges.
Thank you! |
|
Lightning Bolt2
DUST University Ivy League
124
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
now first off I'm pointing this to FG vrs Vehicles because this is where I see its supposed to be used.
the Assault Forge gun DOES need nerfed because its damage stat alone with charge time. The damage needs nerfed to be weaker than the normal variant to have a real reason to not just use the assault FG. the AFG DMG needs nerfed to be 200 dmg weaker than the normal variant to have the three choices of - Speed - Dmg-or mix. Right now its - Speed AND dmg - dmg - or mix, witch would you choose? yes, unless you have no idea what a FG is you choose the AFG because theres plenty of dmg without any real downs. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 22:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lightning Bolt2 wrote:now first off I'm pointing this to FG vrs Vehicles because this is where I see its supposed to be used.
the Assault Forge gun DOES need nerfed because its damage stat alone with charge time. The damage needs nerfed to be weaker than the normal variant to have a real reason to not just use the assault FG. the AFG DMG needs nerfed to be 200 dmg weaker than the normal variant to have the three choices of - Speed - Dmg-or mix. Right now its - Speed AND dmg - dmg - or mix, witch would you choose? yes, unless you have no idea what a FG is you choose the AFG because theres plenty of dmg without any real downs.
Thank you, logical person. |
shady merc
RisingSuns
18
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
I am not going to argue if the afg is op or not. However I think a big concern with it is that the maps aren't balanced enough. Typically a good forge gunner gets up to a high Roof. Smart tactic I am not mad. The issue is the 2 ways to counter him are simply defeated. You can fly a dropship up to him and drop some friends of. This is a fine tatic against say a sniper but against a primary a/v weapon its a sucks. The other counter a sniper will have troubles killing him why. The heavy can just back up to regen. I think to balance elevation we need to look at how much cover and view they area has.
For dropship only location You should have either very little cover so you need to contend with people shooting at you or at a view limited view of the battlefield. So for the 2 extremes you could have a small rooftop where you can always be shot at with a huge view of the map or enough to room to back up but very limited few of the battle view say a view area looking over a major path to an objective.
If the location has a ladder you should receive more cover/view area. If there are steps leading to your rooftop you should get the most view/cover.
I think changes like these means we could nerf the afg less as well a keep the tatical advantage of rooftop. This will also lead to more small squad fighting to gain the tactical advantages to increase their chances of taking objectives
|
Thurak1
Psygod9
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lightning Bolt2 wrote:now first off I'm pointing this to FG vrs Vehicles because this is where I see its supposed to be used.
the Assault Forge gun DOES need nerfed because its damage stat alone with charge time. The damage needs nerfed to be weaker than the normal variant to have a real reason to not just use the assault FG. the AFG DMG needs nerfed to be 200 dmg weaker than the normal variant to have the three choices of - Speed - Dmg-or mix. Right now its - Speed AND dmg - dmg - or mix, witch would you choose? yes, unless you have no idea what a FG is you choose the AFG because theres plenty of dmg without any real downs. It does have a much lower damage output compaired to its alternate the proto breach gun. But you cant move when charging the proto and it has a longer charge up time. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
shady merc wrote:I am not going to argue if the afg is op or not. However I think a big concern with it is that the maps aren't balanced enough. Typically a good forge gunner gets up to a high Roof. Smart tactic I am not mad. The issue is the 2 ways to counter him are simply defeated. You can fly a dropship up to him and drop some friends off. This is a fine tatic against say a sniper but against a primary a/v weapon it sucks. The other counter a sniper will have troubles killing him why. The heavy can just back up to regen. I think to balance elevation we need to look at how much cover and view they area has.
For dropship only location You should have either very little cover so you need to contend with people shooting at you or at a view limited view of the battlefield. So for the 2 extremes you could have a small rooftop where you can always be shot at with a huge view of the map or enough to room to back up but very limited few of the battle view say a view area looking over a major path to an objective.
If the location has a ladder you should receive more cover/view area. If there are steps leading to your rooftop you should get the most view/cover.
I think changes like these means we could nerf the afg less as well a keep the tatical advantage of rooftop. This will also lead to more small squad fighting to gain the tactical advantages to increase their chances of taking objectives
I really can't understand a word you're saying, and it's a little off-topic, but hell at least you're trying. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
298
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just three points to point out about openly saying one is about to troll.
- Dev's are less likely to take you seriously
- Please don't post in Feedback/Suggestions.
- CCP has already stated the topic is currently a dead horse, they will continue to monitor the data.
We still haven't even seen 1.5 yet so you never know what may happen. |
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
The OP is a genius!!!!! I have used forge guns and I believe they are completely OP, especially if they do more damage than a flipping rail cannon from a tank or installation.
A very satisfied +1 to the OP |
Thurak1
Psygod9
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Exionous wrote:I have used a forge gun before, thats how I know so much about it. After firing, I am able to immediately charge the second shot. And come to think of it, I think I've seen you up on the top of a building using an assault forge gun before. Sooo what you're saying is just the ignorant bullsh**t coming out of your mouth to try to protect your precious gun, which is probably the only thing you can get a kill with? So, you know, the next time you want to try to counter, you had might as well try to get some better evidence. Your half a page of lies versus my entire post worth of copious amounts of evidence, 99% of which is true, some may be by chance or faltered, since every merc and every shot is different. Now, I'm not going to rack up 2 pages worth of going back and forth with you, because that's just stupid and not worth my time. You'll get your last word, but no one will listen to it. Except your friends on the roof. I would like to know how you are able to immediatly charge your forge gun. So far you are the only player i have heard of being able to do it. So who is spewing bullshit here? So far i have not said anything that is not true yet you keep insisting there is some magic instant charge up after firing. Neith me nor anyone i have squaded with playing a heavy has ever even once had an instant shot ready after firing. If everything i say is true then heavys move fast. ( LOL! ) carry tons of ammo and can carry nanohives.
I would suggest actually proving points then spewing crap.
And yes i like to forge gun snipe because my beloved HMG is now a paperweight since i cant hit anything reliabally much past 15 meters. Also you have a funny definition of evidence. Let me know when you have some "evidance" or at least some truth to your posts. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
624
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
@ Exionous=
You know how many ways we have to counter LLAVs? NONE ATM.
You are just salty but the fact is, its not entirely the FG's fault. Is BAD MAP DESIGN.What makes the Forge gun ''OP'' is the fact that they abuse terrain, but thats the way to use them, thats the way they were meant to be. If you cant effectively get to that point then thats not the Forge gunners fault.
im a Forge gunner and i agree in 2 things.
a)The A Forge gun IS the most powerful variant b)They need a tweak
The weapon is not OP is just way more powerful than the other Forge guns.
I would: -Regular Forge guns: Leave them as they are -Assault Forge guns: Nerf their damage under regular FG's OR INCREASE their damage to around 1800 at ADV level but GREATLY reduce the splash damage AREA so that only DIRECT hits are worth. (and i would probably use the assault variant more if the last was the case XD) -Breach Forge guns: AFTER the shot is CHARGED, the player is able to move. 6 seconds standing still and then not even being able to move is WAY too much penalty for the damage increase when: 1st you already have to wear a heavy dropsuit to use the FG and 2nd, The speed of the Assault FG is proven to be better than the extra damage of the Breach (6 seconds for 2700 dm or 3000+ dm in 5 secs of the assault forgegun?).
my 2 cents |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1252
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Exionous=
You know how many ways we have to counter LLAVs? NONE ATM.
You are just salty but the fact is, its not entirely the FG's fault. Is BAD MAP DESIGN.What makes the Forge gun ''OP'' is the fact that they abuse terrain, but thats the way to use them, thats the way they were meant to be. If you cant effectively get to that point then thats not the Forge gunners fault.
im a Forge gunner and i agree in 2 things.
a)The A Forge gun IS the most powerful variant b)They need a tweak
The weapon is not OP is just way more powerful than the other Forge guns.
I would: -Regular Forge guns: Leave them as they are -Assault Forge guns: Nerf their damage under regular FG's OR INCREASE their damage to around 1800 at ADV level but GREATLY reduce the splash damage AREA so that only DIRECT hits are worth. (and i would probably use the assault variant more if the last was the case XD) -Breach Forge guns: AFTER the shot is CHARGED, the player is able to move. 6 seconds standing still and then not even being able to move is WAY too much penalty for the damage increase when: 1st you already have to wear a heavy dropsuit to use the FG and 2nd, The speed of the Assault FG is proven to be better than the extra damage of the Breach (6 seconds for 2700 dm or 3000+ dm in 5 secs of the assault forgegun?).
my 2 cents you want to know how to counter LLAVs...
tanks. there are counters to LLAV thus you point is made invalid. |
|
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 23:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
ladwar wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Exionous=
You know how many ways we have to counter LLAVs? NONE ATM.
You are just salty but the fact is, its not entirely the FG's fault. Is BAD MAP DESIGN.What makes the Forge gun ''OP'' is the fact that they abuse terrain, but thats the way to use them, thats the way they were meant to be. If you cant effectively get to that point then thats not the Forge gunners fault.
im a Forge gunner and i agree in 2 things.
a)The A Forge gun IS the most powerful variant b)They need a tweak
The weapon is not OP is just way more powerful than the other Forge guns.
I would: -Regular Forge guns: Leave them as they are -Assault Forge guns: Nerf their damage under regular FG's OR INCREASE their damage to around 1800 at ADV level but GREATLY reduce the splash damage AREA so that only DIRECT hits are worth. (and i would probably use the assault variant more if the last was the case XD) -Breach Forge guns: AFTER the shot is CHARGED, the player is able to move. 6 seconds standing still and then not even being able to move is WAY too much penalty for the damage increase when: 1st you already have to wear a heavy dropsuit to use the FG and 2nd, The speed of the Assault FG is proven to be better than the extra damage of the Breach (6 seconds for 2700 dm or 3000+ dm in 5 secs of the assault forgegun?).
my 2 cents you want to know how to counter LLAVs... tanks. there are counters to LLAV thus you point is made invalid.
Tanks, AV grenades, plasma cannons, swarm launchers, not to mention that doing that would still make the AFG overpowered, because the assault variant of weapons is supposed to do considerably less damage (both direct and splash) with a faster ROF and sometimes a larger clip. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 00:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yea these complaints always seem to come back to the same thing: "Forge gunners are above me so they're splash damage is more effective." But as has already been stated, that's a map issue, not a weapon issue. You shouldn't be so mad that players are effectively using the terrain; but you may be mad the terrain is poorly designed.
In regards to forge guns being easy to no-scope with, that's just blatantly untrue, especially at the ranges you seem to be complaining about. Unless your target is standing perfectly still, the best you can hope for is splash damage. And even if your target is standing perfectly still (say a sniper), you'll still only hit if your reticle doesn't happen to be lying to you. If you don't know what I mean, currently with forge guns sometimes you'll line up your shot and get the reticle red...only to miss, won't even get splash damage.
On the subject of altering the assualt variant, I can see some merit there. It does make sense that the higher RoF version would do less damage, and would keep it in like with other weapons. Although if this was done, shouldn't that also mean the inability to hold a charge should be removed? Then it would be balanced in exactly the same way as other weapons.
So I noticed the OP complained about his AR being unable to take out a forge gunner.....which is a long range weapon....at long range... Hopefully just that sentence will demonstrate the silliness of that argument.
As a specific side note to the OP, it's kind of counter-intuitive to claim that you're giving logical assertions and evidence based facts while simultaneously spouting obscenities and causing people of "whining" in the first few lines of your post. You can have your grievances and whatnot, but I don't see any reason for the immaturity. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
625
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 00:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
@ Exionous
I've shot LLAvs with 3 shots of an assault FG and they LIVED and then Hide, plus they are so fast that hitting them more than once is pure luck.
I've seen LLAvs take on TANKS, nad guess what? AND WIN.
What you are talking, plasma cannons? LOOOL , swarms? LOOL bro they have no counters . If you EVEN HIT an LLAV twice with the same weapon is because the driver sucks, and by these standards a Forgunner that sucks can be killed: by a Scrambler Pistol,Scrambler Rifle,Grenade,Assault rifle of any kind,HMG,another FG, sNiper rifle,Plasma cannon, Mass driver, LLAv, Tank, Dropship, Stationary turret; all 3 types,SMG,Nova knifes,shotguns,flux grenades to the face,Melee,Flaylock pistol,R/E, Proximity mines with a proper trigger, and basically anything that does at least 1HP of damage.
THere by making your whole Original Post invalid >..> |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
183
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 00:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
do u have to be so active against hating on the assault fg...
only way to take out those maddys or gunlogis...
fg is fine where its at and of course u r going to get hated on ...i may have been using that gun in cqc but its not op...
and an anti material gun...just be happy it doesnt pierce through multiple objects...
|
SILVERBACK 02
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
153
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 02:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
its a hard decision to make... if the FORGE GUN was removed or nerfed the...
TANKERS will be over powered..
DROPSHIPS will be balanced...
LAVs will be overpowered...
INFANTRY will be buffed....
SNIPERS will be nerfed (no stationary targets i.e forge gunners)...
the only viable answer i can see is to
BUFF THE DROPSHIP.
reason;-
drop ship wont get shot down when attacking forge gunner on roof
drop ships will finally be balanced
it doesnt impact any of the other roles as much as a nerf to the forge gun would.
and finally...
THE COUNTER TO THE FORGE GUN.
|
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
627
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 02:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
SILVERBACK 02 wrote:its a hard decision to make... if the FORGE GUN was removed or nerfed the...
TANKERS will be over powered..
DROPSHIPS will be balanced...
LAVs will be overpowered...
INFANTRY will be buffed....
SNIPERS will be nerfed (no stationary targets i.e forge gunners)...
the only viable answer i can see is to
BUFF THE DROPSHIP.
reason;-
drop ship wont get shot down when attacking forge gunner on roof
drop ships will finally be balanced
it doesnt impact any of the other roles as much as a nerf to the forge gun would.
and finally...
THE COUNTER TO THE FORGE GUN.
This and a reduction in tanks price would be more than enough i say. +1 |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
186
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 02:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
i kinda think the mlt tanks need a price reduction as they die so easily...
its not funny.. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
627
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 02:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:i kinda think the mlt tanks need a price reduction as they die so easily...
its not funny..
They are pretty useless. I have some MLT in my main account (THe AV one) and they are utter crap TBQH. Cost like 170k total with fittings and die from 2 Forge guns or 2 anything XD I dont mind but its pretty expensive considering they are pretty crappy. Still go 25- 2 with them but...hmm... Depends on what the other team throws at me. |
Phantom Vaxer
The Generals EoN.
80
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 03:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
The assault variant should deal a lil less damage than the standard variant. But here's the thing. You know what would really help with forge gun sniping? Make the thing have a small blast radius. The thing is meant to take out vehicles which Im pretty sure are larger than any dropsuit. So why must it need blast radius to do direct damage to a LAV or HAV. Skill shooters can still OHK with forge gunners but not make it annoyance by spamming forge rounds. The gun keeps it damage, keeps its effectiveness against vehicles, and can still OHK infantry but more difficult to do. Seems pretty fair to me. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
629
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 04:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Phantom Vaxer wrote:The assault variant should deal a lil less damage than the standard variant. But here's the thing. You know what would really help with forge gun sniping? Make the thing have a small blast radius. The thing is meant to take out vehicles which Im pretty sure are larger than any dropsuit. So why must it need blast radius to do direct damage to a LAV or HAV. Skill shooters can still OHK with forge gunners but not make it annoyance by spamming forge rounds. The gun keeps it damage, keeps its effectiveness against vehicles, and can still OHK infantry but more difficult to do. Seems pretty fair to me.
Agreed BUT YOU CANT NERF BOTH the splash area AND the Damage becuse then the weapon becomes UNDERPOWERED. -Either great reduction on splash damage area -Or reduction to overall damage.
The gun would still be pretty good. (me myself i would go with the splash damage area reduction leaving the damage the same or buffing it) |
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1240
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 04:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:The OP is a genius!!!!! I have used forge guns and I believe they are completely OP, especially if they do more damage than a flipping rail cannon from a tank or installation.
A very satisfied +1 to the OP
Hello altpost to like yourself. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1269
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 04:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Phantom Vaxer wrote:The assault variant should deal a lil less damage than the standard variant. But here's the thing. You know what would really help with forge gun sniping? Make the thing have a small blast radius. The thing is meant to take out vehicles which Im pretty sure are larger than any dropsuit. So why must it need blast radius to do direct damage to a LAV or HAV. Skill shooters can still OHK with forge gunners but not make it annoyance by spamming forge rounds. The gun keeps it damage, keeps its effectiveness against vehicles, and can still OHK infantry but more difficult to do. Seems pretty fair to me. Agreed BUT YOU CANT NERF BOTH the splash area AND the Damage becuse then the weapon becomes UNDERPOWERED. -Either great reduction on splash damage area -Or reduction to overall damage. The gun would still be pretty good. (me myself i would go with the splash damage area reduction leaving the damage the same or buffing it) standard and breach proto dps 550~ assault forge dps 850~ they can and should nerf both and it'll still be fine with the other forges. |
God Anpu TheImmortal
The Pyramid Order
36
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 05:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lol your a joke. Lmao all these garbadge numbers and tears. Dude you cry babies have cried and cried so much to the point that the hmg shoots paint ball rounds. This is why most heavies went forge. We spent millions of SP only to be nerfed and Damn near made useless. THE FORGE IS HERE TO STAY DEAL WITH IT. And if they got rid of it I bet u a few days later u will have a page full of nothing crying about there's to many tanks on the field they need to be taken out of the game. Lol!! |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
121
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 06:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Av nades to the drivers face. They kill me out of my seat all the time. Another lav, mainly the baloch/methana, crash into the front of him and laugh when he's blown up out of the seat. Tanks... Just blaster them, run them over, look at them funny, or just generally get near. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
723
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 06:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Exionous wrote:Thurak1 wrote: Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with
- A forge gun can be fired almost immediately after the first shot - Yet 2 shots will kill pretty much anyone because it's not hard to aim with something that's a massive ball of energy that blows up - That's enough to kill 2-4 people - So? - Again, so? They'll hide behind walls and the ground below them - The reticule turns red any time you have a shot, meaning all you need to do is get that giant ass reticule on the speck in the distance to do the splash damage... we're not even discussing direct hits.
by your very same logic ARs are OP. because:
1. there is no other weapon that can challenge them (except forge guns and thats a 50/50 chance) from 5meters to 75meters.
2. the dps on a milita AR without damage mods proficiency, or headshots can kill a full proto heavy sentinel or proto basic with 1591 ehp in 3.7 seconds. (assault forgun charges in 4 seconds). so AR > forgun.
3. has enough ammo to kill 23 people (48 in clip +300 max). if they dnt miss a single shot. if they miss on averge they can get 12 kills per life.
4. people complain about heavies hiding behind walls how about your Caldari logistics suit gaining back its 500 shields in 2 seconds after jumping behind a wall?
5. splash damage is only 2m and is 233 damage. remember every 4 seconds my assualt forge gun is doing 233 damage of splash. Your milita AR does 467 dps.
6. Forge gun dps. 1533 hp damage /4 seconds = 383.25 milita AR = 467 dps
so milita AR dps > forgun dps.
difference is milita does only 10% damage to vehicles, and forguns do the complete damage to vehicles.
Finall point. if TL;DR the forgunis the only heavy weapon that works right now do you really want to nerf that too? |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
723
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 06:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
how could forguns ever be OP?
there are so many ways to counter them. and they are only effective in certain situations.
For example, OP you spoke of the Forgunner on the roof. If he has to be on a roof with it for it to work, then its actually UP, because it needs such specific circunstances then there is no point to using it.
Even if it being on the roof made it really good. now you have plenty of tactics availible to you:
1. counter snipers on your team aimming at him. 2. dropships 3. ARs firing from below (if 3 of you use milita ARs at the same time. your dps is 1500) 4. scrambler rifles (chrage shots) the list goes on.
but remember an assault forgun gets only 16 shots. if you take effective cover, you can depreive him of kills.
Dont try to change the dynamic of the game. becuase tactics are too difficult for you.
at first glance forges seem powerful, but they are just snipers for vehicles. sniper rifles are OP they can OHK most suits accross the map without threat. nerf them (i dnt actually want to nerf snipers but if your nerfing forge everything gotta be nerfed) |
Thurak1
Psygod9
68
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Exionous
I've shot LLAvs with 3 shots of an assault FG and they LIVED and then Hide, plus they are so fast that hitting them more than once is pure luck.
I've seen LLAvs take on TANKS, nad guess what? AND WIN.
What you are talking, plasma cannons? LOOOL , swarms? LOOL bro they have no counters . If you EVEN HIT an LLAV twice with the same weapon is because the driver sucks, and by these standards a Forgunner that sucks can be killed: by a Scrambler Pistol,Scrambler Rifle,Grenade,Assault rifle of any kind,HMG,another FG, sNiper rifle,Plasma cannon, Mass driver, LLAv, Tank, Dropship, Stationary turret; all 3 types,SMG,Nova knifes,shotguns,flux grenades to the face,Melee,Flaylock pistol,R/E, Proximity mines with a proper trigger, and basically anything that does at least 1HP of damage.
THere by making the whole Original Post invalid >..>
''There's only three ways I've found to kill them:''
YEah well, it depends of the skill of the forge gunner now doesnt it? Plus i already posted some fixes for the FG's that Forge gunners would agree with. If you dont like them, then HTFU and let Forge guns as they are and deal with it. As a forge gunner i blow up a LOT of stuff. I dont think i have ever single handedly blown up a LLav. usually it takes a good deal of co-ordination of fire and circumstance to get rid of them. They shrug off my breach forge like i am using a fly swatter on them. I normally only take maybe 1/4 of their shields even with a damage mod. Most tanks i either eat their shields or take at least half with my breach proto fg. And yes like you and other point out the gun isnt whats OP its the situation. If i am sitting in a nice hi spot its hard to get me out of there because i will go somewhere i can get cover when i need to and have a good view of the BF. That does not make the weapon OP and if there was a sniper there they would be just as effective. In fact some of the best matches i have had me and 3 other heavies 1 logi and a sniper all take the same spot. Its impossible to come at us with a dropship and running ip is suicide and of course the sniper brings a hive then its a competition of who can ks who. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
The forge Gun just does too many things too well. It is the only weapon besides the Plasma Cannon that can kill both infantry and vehicles effectively. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. not only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well, as the only thing it has better than a forge gun is its scope. As of right now the splash damage on a FG actually out damages most SRs. As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon, i suggest the removal or extreme reduction of its splash damage (and/or) radius. This is because the splash doesn't even really pose a threat to vehicles, but poses a huge threat to infantry, which (is not/ shouldn't be) their intended targets. I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon. That is all.
|
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
695
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 07:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME
The forge gun's projectile is so large that it instantly kills players...which is why players think it's OP.
If the projectile's size was not as big, it would be harder to get direct hits with, therefore making it only do splash damage. This would keep the direct hits for vehicles, and the splash for infantry, balancing the forge. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1241
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 09:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:AGAIN FOR THE LAST TIME
The forge gun's projectile is so large that it instantly kills players...which is why players think it's OP.
If the projectile's size was not as big, it would be harder to get direct hits with, therefore making it only do splash damage. This would keep the direct hits for vehicles, and the splash for infantry, balancing the forge.
the projectile is actually a bit bigger than an assault rifle bullet mechanically.
The big ball of flashy death is there so people can go "Hurr durr da forge gunnah iz ovah dere!"
the actual impacting projectile is still smaller than your dropsuit's head. |
|
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
SILVERBACK 02 wrote:its a hard decision to make... if the FORGE GUN was removed or nerfed the...
TANKERS will be over powered..
DROPSHIPS will be balanced...
LAVs will be overpowered...
INFANTRY will be buffed....
SNIPERS will be nerfed (no stationary targets i.e forge gunners)...
the only viable answer i can see is to
BUFF THE DROPSHIP.
reason;-
drop ship wont get shot down when attacking forge gunner on roof
drop ships will finally be balanced
it doesnt impact any of the other roles as much as a nerf to the forge gun would.
and finally...
THE COUNTER TO THE FORGE GUN.
Yet one that still may cost a hell of a lot of money if you happen to have one of those crappy landings where you bump the ground and its health just disappears. We're evading the topic that, while the FGers being un-counterable is bad, this is not the direct point I'm trying to make. The gun is still overpowered when you look at the stats of other weapons. Sure, maybe they can be countered more easily, but they're still going to be shooting at people. Just like snipers, you can countersnipe, but they'll just come back on a different roof/mountain. Problem not solved. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:47:00 -
[42] - Quote
Exionous, you didn't respond to a thing I said. I'm curious to hear your counter-arguments to my points. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Exionous
I've shot LLAvs with 3 shots of an assault FG and they LIVED and then Hide, plus they are so fast that hitting them more than once is pure luck.
I've seen LLAvs take on TANKS, nad guess what? AND WIN.
What you are talking, plasma cannons? LOOOL , swarms? LOOL bro they have no counters . If you EVEN HIT an LLAV twice with the same weapon is because the driver sucks, and by these standards a Forgunner that sucks can be killed: by a Scrambler Pistol,Scrambler Rifle,Grenade,Assault rifle of any kind,HMG,another FG, sNiper rifle,Plasma cannon, Mass driver, LLAv, Tank, Dropship, Stationary turret; all 3 types,SMG,Nova knifes,shotguns,flux grenades to the face,Melee,Flaylock pistol,R/E, Proximity mines with a proper trigger, and basically anything that does at least 1HP of damage.
THere by making the whole Original Post invalid >..>
''There's only three ways I've found to kill them:''
YEah well, it depends of the skill of the forge gunner now doesnt it? Plus i already posted some fixes for the FG's that Forge gunners would agree with. If you dont like them, then HTFU and let Forge guns as they are and deal with it.
Alright, lets get you out of the way...
-If you've shot an LAV with 3 shots of an AFG and they drive away, it's a Charybdis with too many shield extenders. Those things can't really be taken out by anything. Any other LAV--Onikuma, Baloch, Saga, Methana, Abron, or Callisto--will die in 2, if not 1 shot.
-Now, if you actually think I'm going to believe that something with 1,900 HP in total (3,000 if it's a Logi) can drive up against something with an 80GJ blaster on it that can usually pump out about 1,000 damage in 3 seconds, more if it's an advanced or prototype blaster, while an LAV has at best a 20GJ blaster that might be able to get out 500 damage every 3 seconds with a scattered ion cannon, then be able to pump through the 3,000-7,000 HP of a tank with one small blaster before the tank can pound through the LAV's 1,900-3,400 max HP with an 80GJ blaster and perhaps 1-2 20GJ's and live... Seriously. Just come on.
-It is rather true that if you can hit an LAV driver twice with a swarm he shouldn't be driving, because his countermeasures obviously suck, I'll give you that. But that list of every weapon in the game is just more spurting of nonsense. You go kill a heavy with 6 shots that deal about 80 damage a shot before they turn around and 1) blow you up with their precious FG 2) pump 50 SMG bullets into you, I'll personally stop bumping this thread and make a corporation called "I'm a Noob" and stay in it. That's 480HP max, and that's just now getting into the armour of a MLT heavy.
-Core locus grenade damage: 600. The weakest heavy I know has 700HP. Try again.
-AR, yes, if you can manage to fly your dropship to where they are without them seeing, hope they don't hear the funny whirring sound of the engines, hope they don't hear it power down, hope you don't crash it and there's now a big explosion sound you hope they didn't hear, hope they don't turn around before you get close enough to start shooting, hope they don't pull an SMG out, then start shooting back then jump off the building and run away... I wonder if I missed anything.
-I'm sorry, LAV? So what you're saying is your LAV can fly up to the top of a building to smack them with your front bumper? Just, what?
-Nova knives, shotgun, plasma cannon, counter FG (which I stated in my OP so putting that is useless), we're all assuming you can get the dropship up there before they see it. I don't want that fate to be in the hands of "did he happen to see me flying?"
-Read the OP about sniping. It just doesn't really happen.
-Flaylock? Do I even need to say anything about that? 3 shots that do about 400 damage max?
-RE would work, but you're once again assuming you can get up to the building they're on.
-You've obviously never used proximity explosives, because those only work on vehicles.
-A flux grenade to whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-use combo would work, yet once again you're hoping you can even get up there. (Do NOT turn this thread into a battle of bad mapmaking. That still doesn't solve our problem that the gun is still OP.)
-"Anything that does 1HP of damage." See, now you're just being stupid.
Now, stay off my thread. You're obviously one of those people protecting his guardian angel weapon that gives you kills in a match. Think about what you're going to say before you go and put it down, knowing 99% of it is bulls**t. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Exionous, you didn't respond to a thing I said. I'm curious to hear your counter-arguments to my points.
That's because half of what you said does not refer to the fact of the matter that this gun is still OP, even if we could counter them. By the way, I put all the stuff about "Get Ready to Troll" and "before you go whining and sh*t" and all the stuff you presumably believe is "immature" because I know that riles up kids that love to look tough over the Internet by trying to be as dumb as they possibly can on a forum. And I love making them look like the ignorant sh*ts they are. Yes, I may seem whiney or biased on this thread, but right now, simple "can you please change this?" isn't going to work anymore. This problem has escalated too far for that now. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
Phantom Vaxer wrote:The assault variant should deal a lil less damage than the standard variant. But here's the thing. You know what would really help with forge gun sniping? Make the thing have a small blast radius. The thing is meant to take out vehicles which Im pretty sure are larger than any dropsuit. So why must it need blast radius to do direct damage to a LAV or HAV. Skill shooters can still OHK with forge gunners but not make it annoyance by spamming forge rounds. The gun keeps it damage, keeps its effectiveness against vehicles, and can still OHK infantry but more difficult to do. Seems pretty fair to me.
This would help.. this would help a lot. But I'm still thinking they'd be a problem... this would only deter a couple of people from it. The people with "skill" in FGing would continue to do this. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
47
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
What they need to do with forge guns is reduce the range by 50%. Oh, now you have to get too close to my tank. Aww I feel sorry for you, really I do. But you know, you have been shooting my tanks from hidden places and your FG does more damage then my rail gun. So you know taking a range nerf will force you to start playing tactically to reduce tanks to piles of ruin and rubble. Sniper no sniping. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:What they need to do with forge guns is reduce the range by 50%. Oh, now you have to get too close to my tank. Aww I feel sorry for you, really I do. But you know, you have been shooting my tanks from hidden places and your FG does more damage then my rail gun. So you know taking a range nerf will force you to start playing tactically to reduce tanks to piles of ruin and rubble. Sniper no sniping.
This is another good idea. Reducing the range so they can't snipe. I like that. +1. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Exionous wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Exionous, you didn't respond to a thing I said. I'm curious to hear your counter-arguments to my points. That's because half of what you said does not refer to the fact of the matter that this gun is still OP, even if we could counter them. By the way, I put all the stuff about "Get Ready to Troll" and "before you go whining and sh*t" and all the stuff you presumably believe is "immature" because I know that riles up kids that love to look tough over the Internet by trying to be as dumb as they possibly can on a forum. And I love making them look like the ignorant sh*ts they are. Yes, I may seem whiney or biased on this thread, but right now, simple "can you please change this?" isn't going to work anymore. This problem has escalated too far for that now.
So....your point is that my points are uncounterable? ...what? I'm no debating expert, but one would think that makes your original arguments less than sound. What I said was all in response to your original post, if you have no counter, then your original post quickly loses all merit.
So your plan was to make some posters look stupid and immature by behaving stupid and immature? I think you might find this to be an interesting read if you've got the time. Just a hunch. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:What they need to do with forge guns is reduce the range by 50%. Oh, now you have to get too close to my tank. Aww I feel sorry for you, really I do. But you know, you have been shooting my tanks from hidden places and your FG does more damage then my rail gun. So you know taking a range nerf will force you to start playing tactically to reduce tanks to piles of ruin and rubble. Sniper no sniping.
I can somewhat see your point from a balance perspective, but it doesn't really make any sense thematically. Forge guns are railguns, just like sniper rifles. They're supposed to be long range weapons, because all they do is super charge a chunk of metal with kinetic energy and fire it out at crazy high speeds. Would be a tad strange if my railgun slug barely left the barrel. I'm more in favor of nerfing either the splash radius or damage. And as always, better designed maps. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
47
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 15:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:What they need to do with forge guns is reduce the range by 50%. Oh, now you have to get too close to my tank. Aww I feel sorry for you, really I do. But you know, you have been shooting my tanks from hidden places and your FG does more damage then my rail gun. So you know taking a range nerf will force you to start playing tactically to reduce tanks to piles of ruin and rubble. Sniper no sniping. I can somewhat see your point from a balance perspective, but it doesn't really make any sense thematically. Forge guns are railguns, just like sniper rifles. They're supposed to be long range weapons, because all they do is super charge a chunk of metal with kinetic energy and fire it out at crazy high speeds. Would be a tad strange if my railgun slug barely left the barrel. I'm more in favor of nerfing either the splash radius or damage. And as always, better designed maps.
Well consider this, your railgun out performs the small rail turrets on my tank. By freakin 3 or 4 times more. And yet it is the same size as your forge gun, and being both "Rail Guns" you would expect them to operate in much the same way. Why should the forge gun operate beyond my large actual RAILGUN turret.
Though Heavies need a bit of lovin. I say reduce the optimal range on forge guns and make them less accurate at extreme ranges. Forcing the FG to engage a bit closer, say 250 to 300M optimal.
So why is the forge gun so much more powerful. I need that ***** strapped on my tanks low turret slots. |
|
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
13
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 16:06:00 -
[51] - Quote
"Tebu Gan" wrote:Well consider this, your railgun out performs the small rail turrets on my tank. By freakin 3 or 4 times more. And yet it is the same size as your forge gun, and being both "Rail Guns" you would expect them to operate in much the same way. Why should the forge gun operate beyond my large actual RAILGUN turret.
Though Heavies need a bit of lovin. I say reduce the optimal range on forge guns and make them less accurate at extreme ranges. Forcing the FG to engage a bit closer, say 250 to 300M optimal.
So why is the forge gun so much more powerful. I need that ***** strapped on my tanks low turret slots.
But see now we're discussing why vehicles aren't good enough, not why forge guns are too good. And for the record I 100% agree with you, tanks and dropships definitely need a buff (obviously LAVs don't). So lets maybe wait till 1.5 to see how forge guns hold up against vehicles?
Honestly, I think the major armor buffs in 1.4 will be plenty lovin. Then all they've gotta do is fix the HMG dispersion and make the sentinel suit bonuses not suck, and you've got yourself a totally useable (and fun) role! And then we can work on scouts... |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
302
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 18:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Exionous wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:What they need to do with forge guns is reduce the range by 50%. Oh, now you have to get too close to my tank. Aww I feel sorry for you, really I do. But you know, you have been shooting my tanks from hidden places and your FG does more damage then my rail gun. So you know taking a range nerf will force you to start playing tactically to reduce tanks to piles of ruin and rubble. Sniper no sniping. This is another good idea. Reducing the range so they can't snipe. I like that. +1. CCP can just reduce all long range weapons by the same percentages. Range reduction on large blasters to even them out with large rail turrets.
With a hit on range maybe CCP will buff missile turret splash and damage again. |
Lightning Bolt2
DUST University Ivy League
127
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 18:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:"Tebu Gan" wrote:Well consider this, your railgun out performs the small rail turrets on my tank. By freakin 3 or 4 times more. And yet it is the same size as your forge gun, and being both "Rail Guns" you would expect them to operate in much the same way. Why should the forge gun operate beyond my large actual RAILGUN turret.
Though Heavies need a bit of lovin. I say reduce the optimal range on forge guns and make them less accurate at extreme ranges. Forcing the FG to engage a bit closer, say 250 to 300M optimal.
So why is the forge gun so much more powerful. I need that ***** strapped on my tanks low turret slots. But see now we're discussing why vehicles aren't good enough, not why forge guns are too good. And for the record I 100% agree with you, tanks and dropships definitely need a buff (obviously LAVs don't). So lets maybe wait till 1.5 to see how forge guns hold up against vehicles? Honestly, I think the major armor buffs in 1.4 will be plenty lovin. Then all they've gotta do is fix the HMG dispersion and make the sentinel suit bonuses not suck, and you've got yourself a totally useable (and fun) role! And then we can work on scouts...
+1 just because scouts REALLY need loving (constantly got nerfed since Uprising released ) |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
636
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 20:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote: The forge Gun just does too many things too well. It is the only weapon besides the Plasma Cannon that can kill both infantry and vehicles effectively. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. not only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well, as the only thing it has better than a forge gun is its scope. As of right now the splash damage on a FG actually out damages most SRs. As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon, i suggest the removal or extreme reduction of its splash damage (and/or) radius. This is because the splash doesn't even really pose a threat to vehicles, but poses a huge threat to infantry, which (is not/ shouldn't be) their intended targets. I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon. That is all.
-''The forge Gun just does too many things too well.'' No it just does the well. Too well would be less charge time, being able to AIM and not having to use HEAVY to use it. -''. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. '' Again. The Plasma cannon CAN AIM, does not to be equipped in a heavy suit (so the user can equip nanohives)among other advantages. -''ot only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well'' Nope, Sniper rifles , SPECIALLY the Charged sniper rifle, Deal faster damage , AT LONGER ranges AND have a special Sight that let them See what they are shooting at as if they were 50mts away. PLUS they are way cheaper. -'' As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon..''Read the weapons description. Its and ANTI MATERIAL WEAPON.IT never says its an AV weapon. ITs supposed to HIT EVERYTHING. -'' I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon.'' Look i wouldnt mind a NERF on the splash area of Forge guns. I only score direct hits with it anyways. BUT THERE IS NO NEED, because the weapon is not OP, you people are just whining cuz you get owned by it, thats all.
So NO.
|
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
725
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 20:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Frogun does NOT equal OP.
AR is OP.
ask and ill prove it. with MATH |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
637
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 20:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
@ Exionous
Alright, lets get YOU out of the way...
-If you've shot an LAV with 3 shots of an AFG and they drive away, it's a Charybdis with too many shield extenders. Those things can't really be taken out by anything. Any other LAV--Onikuma, Baloch, Saga, Methana, Abron, or Callisto--will die in 2, if not 1 shot. Yeah but Any other LAV is NOT a problem right? PLUS most people, at least smart ones only have LLAV : Charybdis. SO ITS STILL A PROBLEM.Big one that is. Plus you talk like you see a lot of different the LAvs out there, when only ones are Free (Blueprint)LAV's and Charybdis....
-Now, if you actually think I'm going to believe that something with 1,900 HP in total (3,000 if it's a Logi) can drive up against something with an 80GJ blaster on it that can usually pump out about 1,000 damage in 3 seconds, more if it's an advanced or prototype blaster, while an LAV has at best a 20GJ blaster that might be able to get out 500 damage every 3 seconds with a scattered ion cannon, then be able to pump through the 3,000-7,000 HP of a tank with one small blaster before the tank can pound through the LAV's 1,900-3,400 max HP with an 80GJ blaster and perhaps 1-2 20GJ's and live... Seriously. Just come on. With the amount of shield regen,Damage resistance and , EHEM (the thing that LAV users seem to forget they have) SPEED to drive around the tank FASTER than the tank can actually TURN their turret, with the Proto Small Missile turret, yeah SURE you can take on a tank, you know if you know how to play this game that is....Plus i've seen it, i have no reason to LIE.Im not the one WHINING about something here....Its wou QQ because you get owned by FG's.
-It is rather true that if you can hit an LAV driver twice with a swarm he shouldn't be driving, because his countermeasures obviously suck, I'll give you that. But that list of every weapon in the game is just more spurting of nonsense. You go kill a heavy with 6 shots that deal about 80 damage a shot before they turn around and 1) blow you up with their precious FG 2) pump 50 SMG bullets into you, I'll personally stop bumping this thread and make a corporation called "I'm a Noob" and stay in it. That's 480HP max, and that's just now getting into the armour of a MLT heavy. IF you cant kill a Heavy, the one in the ''im a noob'' corp should be you. And i mean that with allthe disrespect Possible. like SRSLY. Who whines about heavies being unkillable? LOL bro just lol...Plus you talk like if hitting someone with a FG at close range is an easy task HEH...
-Core locus grenade damage: 600. The weakest heavy I know has 700HP. Try again. With one grenade he would be at 100 HP? Broski, if you ant kill him after that just join the ''im a noob'' corp please....
-AR, yes, if you can manage to fly your dropship to where they are without them seeing, hope they don't hear the funny whirring sound of the engines, hope they don't hear it power down, hope you don't crash it and there's now a big explosion sound you hope they didn't hear, hope they don't turn around before you get close enough to start shooting, hope they don't pull an SMG out, then start shooting back then jump off the building and run away... I wonder if I missed anything. WOW seriously what a bunch of whining nonesense. NEXT thingwe know you will be wanting to nerf the SMG too HAHAHA... But yeah if they are already on top of a building i guess you are right,its almost impossible to reach up there. But thats not the FG w are talking about, its broken maps...
-I'm sorry, LAV? So what you're saying is your LAV can fly up to the top of a building to smack them with your front bumper? Just, what? Not on top of a building, but anywhere else, yeah pretty much.
-Nova knives, shotgun, plasma cannon, counter FG (which I stated in my OP so putting that is useless), we're all assuming you can get the dropship up there before they see it. I don't want that fate to be in the hands of "did he happen to see me flying?" Again, thats not the FG being broken but the maps.
-Read the OP about sniping. It just doesn't really happen. I can kill FGunnes with a STD Tac Sniper and 3 damage mods.. And im not even a real sniper. PLEASE... -Flaylock? Do I even need to say anything about that? 3 shots that do about 400 damage max? Dude again,you are fighting vs a HEavy. Slow and has 1 FG shot and an SMG at best.FLaylocks are great weapons if you can score direct scores, and how CANT you score direct hits vs a heavy LOL. ... -RE would work, but you're once again assuming you can get up to the building they're on. Then again, you and your buildings. THATS A MAP ISSUE NOT THE FG being broken. Yeah the FG abuses it,but its not broken because of it. -You've obviously never used proximity explosives, because those only work on vehicles. Prox explosives, with a single Grenade or Mass driver can be detonated. a Forge gun has splash damage ,so yeah... i've seen it happen. You can kill Infantry with Prox mines.(Im seriously telling you this,if you dont know this kind of stuff you shouldnt even be posting stuff, because it comes from a person who doesnt fully understand the game...)
-A flux grenade to whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-use combo would work, yet once again you're hoping you can even get up there. (Do NOT turn this thread into a battle of bad mapmaking. That still doesn't solve our problem that the gun is still OP.) THe gun is not OP. There shouldt be a way to get and stay up there on top of building that are unreachable for the rest of the players. The Gun is not OP. You QQ much. Now, stay off the forums. You're obviously one of those people trying to nerf the weapon that gives you the most deaths in a match. Think about what you're going to say before you go and put it down, knowing 99% of it is bulls**t. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
725
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 21:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Also, snipers can not be countered by any means. nothing can hit a sniper at 599m other than other snipers.
nothing can out dps an AR from 5 meters to 75 meters.
so if oyu want to talk about non-counterable, then nerf snipers and ARs too.
Caldari suits are uncounterable aswell. they have netter ehp than heavies, better movement speed than every other suit save minmintar, and shields themselves are OP. So, those need to be nerfed.
You are just mad that your caldari suit and AR got killed by a forgun. |
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
36
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 21:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Also, snipers can not be countered by any means. nothing can hit a sniper at 599m other than other snipers.
nothing can out dps an AR from 5 meters to 75 meters.
so if oyu want to talk about non-counterable, then nerf snipers and ARs too.
Caldari suits are uncounterable aswell. they have netter ehp than heavies, better movement speed than every other suit save minmintar, and shields themselves are OP. So, those need to be nerfed.
You are just mad that your caldari suit and AR got killed by a forgun. keep up the good fight man |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
726
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 21:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:What they need to do with forge guns is reduce the range by 50%. Oh, now you have to get too close to my tank. Aww I feel sorry for you, really I do. But you know, you have been shooting my tanks from hidden places and your FG does more damage then my rail gun. So you know taking a range nerf will force you to start playing tactically to reduce tanks to piles of ruin and rubble. Sniper no sniping. I can somewhat see your point from a balance perspective, but it doesn't really make any sense thematically. Forge guns are railguns, just like sniper rifles. They're supposed to be long range weapons, because all they do is super charge a chunk of metal with kinetic energy and fire it out at crazy high speeds. Would be a tad strange if my railgun slug barely left the barrel. I'm more in favor of nerfing either the splash radius or damage. And as always, better designed maps. Well consider this, your railgun out performs the small rail turrets on my tank. By freakin 3 or 4 times more. And yet it is the same size as your forge gun, and being both "Rail Guns" you would expect them to operate in much the same way. Why should the forge gun operate beyond my large actual RAILGUN turret. Though Heavies need a bit of lovin. I say reduce the optimal range on forge guns and make them less accurate at extreme ranges. Forcing the FG to engage a bit closer, say 250 to 300M optimal. So why is the forge gun so much more powerful. I need that ***** strapped on my tanks low turret slots.
you need to tack some ARs on your tank turrets because they out DPS them, and out range them, and do more damage to sshields and armor than them. ARs never overheat, and have no recoil... so you might as well tack those on as blasters...lol |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
727
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 21:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
if forguns are so powerful vs infantry can people explain to me why a GEK out dps an AFG?
compare: AFG needs 4 seconds to charge to do 1538 damage. so it does 1538 every 4 seconds A milita AR w/ proficiency* does 537 damage per second#. so in 4 seconds It does 2148.2 damage. (technically since a milita AR has 48 bullets in the clip its max damage per clip is 2040. it takes 3.8 seconds to unload its clip.)
A heavy with max skills in tanking has 1591 ehp. which as you can see a miita AR using the dps above can kill in 2.97 or circa 3 seconds.
so, an AFG needs 4 seconds to kill a heavy in proto gear with proto plates and extenders, and a milita AR can do it in 3 seconds.
mind you the militia AR can do this from 0m up to 75 meters effectively. (with fall off the dps decreases but it stays within a 3-4 second time to kill).
imagine a GEK or duvolle! imagine headshots! imagine damage mods! and AFG is OP?!
no. AR = OP
*with all the SP it requires to even get an Assault forgun you can get proficiency on ARs. # 10% buff they gave after chromosome to all light weapons,, and 15% proficiency. |
|
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
194
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 00:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
i thought it was 2.5?
in any case id really rather see a nerf to av nades..
and anerf to those higher tiered tanks that dominate the entire match with out worry.. and while we r at it lets nerf all sniping weapon make the blaster the only thing thats usefull... nerf the hell out of the rail gun so it cant go snipe from the redzone...
and while were at it lets nerf all proto equipment....
and make mlt and std gear the only stuff worth using in a pubmatch...
yeah lets make this game even more worse than it all ready is...
lets also remove kbm because thats what most snipers use...
lets make it to where we all must use a controller for this game not a keyboard..
does this sound horrible to you...
i think it sound horrible..
of course i dont care about the kbm part because i dont use it...
oh lets also nerf the core locus and m1 locus nades as they ohk ppl too...
lets just remove everything and make it to where the only weapon we have is a repair tool...
does this sound fun to u?
most battles are pubstomps a gear restriction would.. remove the assualt fg...
then we have to worry about all the glitches and exploits in this game..
nerfing blast raduis on all fgs wont change a thing it will still be killing...
the splash damage is just a nice side effect of a near miss..
lets nerf high places...
lets get rid of hiding spots...
lets give every1 a free default dropship and see if ppl try to fly around landing on ppl...
forge guns ohk ppl remote explosive ohk ppl..
the adv and proto locus nades ohk ppl..
snipers will ohk ppl..
plasma cannons can ohk ppl...
lavs will ohk ppl..
tanks can ohk ppl..
all guns have the potential of instantly killing ppl.. ..
so why shouldnt a heavy have the ability to ohk ppl?
why shouldnt a heavy equal the firepower of a tank?
we sure know they cant kill effectively with an hmg there suits r to slow and weak...
scouts can out run heavies..
quite easily.. ...hell i dont think a logi suit in general should be able to tank that easily...
i think the only suit that should be able to tank bullets and shrug it off should be a heavy suit but that isnt going to happen..
the only thing able to withstand non av proto av weaponry is a mlt tank..
and if they have proto av with them good luck try to kill....
so lets nerf all hiding spots and roofs..
add a ladder to every rooftop heck why not add an elevator of safety?...
lets make the heavy shrug off ar rounds as thats what it should do...
lets take damage mods out of game lets takes some of those shield extenders and armor plates out of game...
or limit it to 2 of each per suit...
or 1..
armor should keep there armor repper mods as they would be doomed with out them any ways...
nerf the accuracy for kbm...
and lets change the name to noobville....
or noob 514...
maybe no lifer 514?
i just dont really care anymore... |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 02:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote: The forge Gun just does too many things too well. It is the only weapon besides the Plasma Cannon that can kill both infantry and vehicles effectively. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. not only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well, as the only thing it has better than a forge gun is its scope. As of right now the splash damage on a FG actually out damages most SRs. As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon, i suggest the removal or extreme reduction of its splash damage (and/or) radius. This is because the splash doesn't even really pose a threat to vehicles, but poses a huge threat to infantry, which (is not/ shouldn't be) their intended targets. I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon. That is all.
YES. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 02:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote: Plz dont nerf my gun...
its the only thing i get kills with...
we should nerf everything else so i can be the dominant soldier on the battlefield...
also lets make this game stupid...
Off topic, already discussed, bring this up anywhere else and I will take bigger, more extreme measures. |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 02:52:00 -
[64] - Quote
I agree and i think the MD is OP as well. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 02:59:00 -
[65] - Quote
Again as a forge gunner, i wouldn't mine a reduction in splash damage OR splash damage AREA.
But i insist its not needed. |
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 03:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Exionous wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:The forge Gun just does too many things too well. It is the only weapon besides the Plasma Cannon that can kill both infantry and vehicles effectively. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. not only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well, as the only thing it has better than a forge gun is its scope. As of right now the splash damage on a FG actually out damages most SRs. As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon, i suggest the removal or extreme reduction of its splash damage (and/or) radius. This is because the splash doesn't even really pose a threat to vehicles, but poses a huge threat to infantry, which (is not/ shouldn't be) their intended targets. I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon. That is all.
YES. You mean like an AR right so Exionous where is your nerf AR thread eh? Thats right you are a Cal Logi AR scrub who cant beat a tactical use of the FG. |
FLAYLOCK Steve
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
404
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 03:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
What a load of crap lol. You can't counter a forge gunner? I takes 20 seconds to make a milita forge gun suit. Or snip them, not that hard. They're using the terrain to their advantage, it's called tactics. Btw forge gun is a skill shot weapon, you hardly kill by splash damage alone. Most of its kills are direct hits. Yes this assault variant does more damage but doesn't hold charge so. It takes a greater risk in using due to you have to be either time your shots or be exposed longer than the others. I can go on about the forge gun but if you quote me I won't stop. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 04:42:00 -
[68] - Quote
Exionous, you are once again completely ignoring my post and the points I made. I notice you responded to some other less....let's say eloquent posts. Which again leads me to believe your original arguments possess little to no merit. And so once more I invite you to counter what I've said logically. |
zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
28
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 06:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Exionous wrote:Thurak1 wrote: Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with
- A forge gun can be fired almost immediately after the first shot - Yet 2 shots will kill pretty much anyone because it's not hard to aim with something that's a massive ball of energy that blows up - That's enough to kill 2-4 people - So? - Again, so? They'll hide behind walls and the ground below them - The reticule turns red any time you have a shot, meaning all you need to do is get that giant ass reticule on the speck in the distance to do the splash damage... we're not even discussing direct hits. by your very same logic ARs are OP. because: 1. there is no other weapon that can challenge them (except forge guns and thats a 50/50 chance) from 5meters to 75meters. 2. the dps on a milita AR without damage mods proficiency, or headshots can kill a full proto heavy sentinel or proto basic with 1591 ehp in 3.7 seconds. (assault forgun charges in 4 seconds). so AR > forgun. 3. has enough ammo to kill 23 people (48 in clip +300 max). if they dnt miss a single shot. if they miss on averge they can get 12 kills per life. 4. people complain about heavies hiding behind walls how about your Caldari logistics suit gaining back its 500 shields in 2 seconds after jumping behind a wall? 5. splash damage is only 2m and is 233 damage. remember every 4 seconds my assualt forge gun is doing 233 damage of splash. Your milita AR does 467 dps. 6. Forge gun dps. 1533 hp damage /4 seconds = 383.25 milita AR = 467 dps so milita AR dps > forgun dps. difference is milita does only 10% damage to vehicles, and forguns do the complete damage to vehicles. Finall point. if TL;DR the forgunis the only heavy weapon that works right now do you really want to nerf that too?
Okay, cool, right, because ARs have 100% accuracy like the forge gun, right? ARs do 1% damage to vehicles you ******* brainless gnat. You actually killed some of my brain cells. ARs do damage over time, forge guns have "alpha". They do that damage all at once. Jesus Christ, I need an aspirin.
|
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
197
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 18:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
its not the only gun i can get kills with its the only gun i can actually use effectively to kill proto bears....
i wouldnt care about fg if a gear restriction was added..
|
|
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
41
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 02:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Exionous wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:The forge Gun just does too many things too well. It is the only weapon besides the Plasma Cannon that can kill both infantry and vehicles effectively. It actually outclasses the Plasma Cannon in every way other than splash damage and radius. not only that, it make Charged Sniper Rifles fairly useless as well, as the only thing it has better than a forge gun is its scope. As of right now the splash damage on a FG actually out damages most SRs. As most can agree that the FG was intended to be an AV weapon, i suggest the removal or extreme reduction of its splash damage (and/or) radius. This is because the splash doesn't even really pose a threat to vehicles, but poses a huge threat to infantry, which (is not/ shouldn't be) their intended targets. I feel that this would do little to no damage to the AV aspect of the weapon, but would make it actually require a much larger amount of player skill to use as an anti-infantry weapon. That is all.
YES. You mean like an AR right so Exionous where is your nerf AR thread eh? Thats right you are a Cal Logi AR scrub who cant beat a tactical use of the FG.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Kid, I have level 1 in Caldari logistics, and I use that as a support suit. Gonna take a little more than a common proto belittlement to stop me. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
17
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 03:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
Oh Exionous....still no reply....what little faith I have in the validity of your complaints is diminishing rapidly.... |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
726
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 04:41:00 -
[73] - Quote
I will agree with you on the point number one.
Give it 1200-1300 damage, 1 meter splash radius, and slightly higher splash damage.
However, being unable to reach isn't really a good point. I can have a sniper up there with AV nades and a high quality SMG, and get similar AI results. Only that the suit I would be more inclined to fit it on would have MUCH lower HP, and therefore can be counter sniped. While fat suits can't get CSsed as easily as a lighter frame, you technically could, through perserverence and good aim. And a charge sniper.
Now you pointed that out in point #1, that should be changed. However, the othe forges I think are fine. |
West Warder
Death in Two Strikes
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 05:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Exionous wrote:Thurak1 wrote: Given all th disadvanteges a forge gun user has i think its very silly to call them OP. Lets list the disadvantages of a forge gunner. at best 1.5 seconds between shots 1 shot is only likely to take out 1 person IF you hit 4 shots per reload 16 shots normal carry slow as hell because they are a heavy no scope to snipe with you rely greatly on a combination of skill and luck to snipe with
- A forge gun can be fired almost immediately after the first shot - Yet 2 shots will kill pretty much anyone because it's not hard to aim with something that's a massive ball of energy that blows up - That's enough to kill 2-4 people - So? - Again, so? They'll hide behind walls and the ground below them - The reticule turns red any time you have a shot, meaning all you need to do is get that giant ass reticule on the speck in the distance to do the splash damage... we're not even discussing direct hits. first point totally incorrect. Unless by immediate you mean 1.5 seconds. Charge time NEVER changes. 2 also incorrect the actual size of the ball plays nearly no part in hit detection. How is that different from a good sniper. Totally situational. splash damadge almost never means instant kill. Have you ever even used a forge gun or are you bent over and trying to talk using gas and movement of your hands? I totally agree with the last guy here. Assault Forge Guns are pretty balanced and they need no nerfing. They are one of the slowest weapons; FG sniping from afar is extremely difficult, since they have no scope; the fact they can't store the charge only makes them even harder to land a hit, although perhaps it could help a bit in mid ranges. It doesn't shoot grenades, it shoots narrow slugs, so that blue ball can't hit enemies, but it makes easier for you to spot where those shots are coming from. Splash damage seldom kills enemies: you get most kills by direct-hitting enemies. Of course you cannot match FG snipers with flaylocks or mass drivers at distance, you have to counter them with FGs too or Sniper Rifles! Sometimes the best solution is to give enemies a spoonful of their own medicine. Go and learn the perks and issues of every weapon instead of complaining. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 21:59:00 -
[75] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:I will agree with you on the point number one.
Give it 1200-1300 damage, 1 meter splash radius, and slightly higher splash damage.
However, being unable to reach isn't really a good point. I can have a sniper up there with AV nades and a high quality SMG, and get similar AI results. Only that the suit I would be more inclined to fit it on would have MUCH lower HP, and therefore can be counter sniped. While fat suits can't get CSsed as easily as a lighter frame, you technically could, through perserverence and good aim. And a charge sniper.
Now you pointed that out in point #1, that should be changed. However, the othe forges I think are fine.
Yes, yes, very much so. I mean seriously, who snipes with any other FG? There will be a second thread coming very soon in which I will compile all the positive requests and what you guys think should be done to them. This is pretty much the final bump I will be giving this thread, except for briefly pointing it out in the second one. It's pretty obvious that I'm not the only one that wants this, judging by the high amount of approval, likes on the OP, and field experience with other people (of course people are angry and countering, but hey, I would be too if the only gun I use is being fought... and losing). If you believe we may actually get somewhere with this, and could possibly have this implemented in 1.5 (or 1.4.2. or some other subvariant of those weird version numbers that I never understand ), then you should really check it out. The name will be similar to this post, so you shouldn't have trouble finding it if you are one of the people with the same amount of dedication that I do. I'll be putting more detail in the main thread, instead of a reply to a positive thread--and a very intelligent mercenary, seriously Meeko, you are one of the most logical people I've ever seen on this game. Keep it up.
This is happening soon, folks! Stay tuned, stay with us, stay ever-supporting, and we might... just maybe... get there one day. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
219
|
Posted - 2013.08.28 22:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
should the assault forge base charge up time be changed to 2.75 or 3 secs?
|
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
803
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 04:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
lol the OP is so combative with his opening post, I doubt he'll find the consensus he seeks. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
678
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 04:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:should the assault forge base charge up time be changed to 2.75 or 3 secs?
Nah i think damage swap with regular FG would be more than enough. |
NoxMort3m
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
59
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
the forge gun in general is overpowered, it should not do the same damage to drop suits that it does to vehicles , its crazy ,the first forge gun to the highest point wins, make it single shot like the poor plasma cannon and make it 75 percent less effective against drop suits,which would still be hundreds of damage, justify it logically with the fact that the projectile is larger than the dropsuit target, like 75 percent larger, so that damage misses, bam , op forge problem solved for vehicles and dropsuits |
excillon
united we stand x
45
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:09:00 -
[80] - Quote
Yup. Nerf them and MD's, bring back the LR and I'm happy. |
|
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1057
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
-_- theyre all getting a rebalance soon in turn with the vehicles...
What you seem to be really moaning about is FG sniping from on top buildings... which i can agree with, very annoying and almost impossible to shift, however that takes team work and planning to pull off... and is no easy thing to do anyway (needs uplinks, dropships, nanos etc not to mention actually trying to hit any little ants running around bellow you)
If a FG is on the ground... theyre just as vunerable as any other infantry |
nakaya indigene
0uter.Heaven
63
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
+1 for balancing the assault forge. the numbers don't add up or make sense for a specialized weapon. tactics during PC matches, put 3 assault forge gunners and a sniper on a high point and bombard the battle field. have the sniper deploy nanohives 1 forge watch for DS and 2 Forge to deny access to capture points below. there is no counter to this, unless the forge misses or the DS gets lucky. |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
312
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 15:01:00 -
[83] - Quote
I do use it as well, since closed beta and All I could say that it is just too easy now. When there is no point to use a basic or breach variant, it means the Assault is well above them.
Saying AFG charge in 4sec so DPS number look good? It charge in 2.5s, not counting the %reduction from skills. Everyone with a proto forge got lvl5 in that skill...pretty close to 2 seconds. Saying FG aren't OP right now because they can't kill the unkillable LLAV is kinda lame.
Forge shouldn't hit infantry that easy from that far...tell me how I can aim at something when I only see the red chevron and make a direct hit, while that guy is moving, without ADS. That's the main issue.
Anyway, I have seen on twitter CCP would look into that "pinpoint accuracy" + They will "balance" the AV stuff pretty soon. I'll just wait.
|
Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
115
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 17:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
I have an alt heavy hmg less than 1mill sp. I can easily go 18-3 with a std non racial heavy suit and std HMG. 18-0 with a miltia forge. The difference between me and most heavy forges is I am on the ground pushing objectives, and am actually in harms way. I have lost a lot of respect for many heavies that have resorted to rooftop camping to pad their kdr, even though they can easily get great numbers on the ground. |
darkiller240
K-A-O-S theory
149
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 18:05:00 -
[85] - Quote
Finally thank you for making this thread |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
573
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 19:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
Reasons why the Forge Guns are NOT overpowered |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
573
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 19:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Again as a forge gunner, i wouldn't mind a reduction in splash damage OR splash damage AREA.
But i insist its not needed.
No way.
As I explained in another thread, the Splash Damage on the FG is there to scatter Vehicle's infantry support. It is very negligible at best about 140 Splash DPS. 277/2 sec charge time.
The FG is perfect where it is at.
|
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
573
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 19:28:00 -
[88] - Quote
NoxMort3m wrote:the forge gun in general is overpowered, it should not do the same damage to drop suits that it does to vehicles , its crazy ,the first forge gun to the highest point wins, make it single shot like the poor plasma cannon and make it 75 percent less effective against drop suits,which would still be hundreds of damage, justify it logically with the fact that the projectile is larger than the dropsuit target, like 75 percent larger, so that damage misses, bam , op forge problem solved for vehicles and dropsuits You have obviously never used the FG! |
Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
115
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 19:44:00 -
[89] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Again as a forge gunner, i wouldn't mind a reduction in splash damage OR splash damage AREA.
But i insist its not needed. No way. As I explained in another thread, the Splash Damage on the FG is there to scatter Vehicle's infantry support. It is very negligible at best about 140 Splash DPS. 277/2 sec charge time. The FG is perfect where it is at. Sorry the infantry support should be scattered by your squad infantry players. As you describe it, forge should be able solo tank and his support. I'm not for a forge splash nerf but logic like yours , Jaraiya, just gives it a good point to get one, lol. Perhaps a shield damage only splash is the best of both worlds. You can heavily cripple tanks and infantry, but must hit directly to get the kill. Don't even say hip fire direct hits are hard with a forge, I've used since pre-chrome, and am amazed it took so long to be utilized. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
573
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 19:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Again as a forge gunner, i wouldn't mind a reduction in splash damage OR splash damage AREA.
But i insist its not needed. No way. As I explained in another thread, the Splash Damage on the FG is there to scatter Vehicle's infantry support. It is very negligible at best about 140 Splash DPS. 277/2 sec charge time. The FG is perfect where it is at. Sorry the infantry support should be scattered by your squad infantry players. As you describe it, forge should be able solo tank and his support. I'm not for a forge splash nerf but logic like yours , Jaraiya, just gives it a good point to get one, lol. Perhaps a shield damage only splash is the best of both worlds. You can heavily cripple tanks and infantry, but must hit directly to get the kill. Don't even say hip fire direct hits are hard with a forge, I've used since pre-chrome, and am amazed it took so long to be utilized.
It's a railgun. Making the splash only effect shields makes no sense. It only does 277 splash damage anyway. If you get hit with FG splash, you have more than enough time to get out of the way to avoid getting hit a second time.
I never said it should be able to 1vHAV+support infantry. It makes the infantry scatter so that my team can more easily engage them.
Direct hits are not necessarily "hard", but do require a great deal of skill to pull off with the Assault FG.
The FG is perfect how it is. |
|
Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
115
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 20:11:00 -
[91] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Again as a forge gunner, i wouldn't mind a reduction in splash damage OR splash damage AREA.
But i insist its not needed. No way. As I explained in another thread, the Splash Damage on the FG is there to scatter Vehicle's infantry support. It is very negligible at best about 140 Splash DPS. 277/2 sec charge time. The FG is perfect where it is at. Sorry the infantry support should be scattered by your squad infantry players. As you describe it, forge should be able solo tank and his support. I'm not for a forge splash nerf but logic like yours , Jaraiya, just gives it a good point to get one, lol. Perhaps a shield damage only splash is the best of both worlds. You can heavily cripple tanks and infantry, but must hit directly to get the kill. Don't even say hip fire direct hits are hard with a forge, I've used since pre-chrome, and am amazed it took so long to be utilized. It's a railgun. Making the splash only effect shields makes no sense. It only does 277 splash damage anyway. If you get hit with FG splash, you have more than enough time to get out of the way to avoid getting hit a second time. I never said it should be able to 1vHAV+support infantry. It makes the infantry scatter so that my team can more easily engage them. Direct hits are not necessarily "hard", but do require a great deal of skill to pull off with the Assault FG. The FG is perfect how it is. I was starting to believe you again, until that laughable part about assault Forge guns. I've used forge guns extensively, and find it easier to aim the assault variant as you don't have to watch the charge meter as with the others.
|
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
573
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 20:19:00 -
[92] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Again as a forge gunner, i wouldn't mind a reduction in splash damage OR splash damage AREA.
But i insist its not needed. No way. As I explained in another thread, the Splash Damage on the FG is there to scatter Vehicle's infantry support. It is very negligible at best about 140 Splash DPS. 277/2 sec charge time. The FG is perfect where it is at. Sorry the infantry support should be scattered by your squad infantry players. As you describe it, forge should be able solo tank and his support. I'm not for a forge splash nerf but logic like yours , Jaraiya, just gives it a good point to get one, lol. Perhaps a shield damage only splash is the best of both worlds. You can heavily cripple tanks and infantry, but must hit directly to get the kill. Don't even say hip fire direct hits are hard with a forge, I've used since pre-chrome, and am amazed it took so long to be utilized. It's a railgun. Making the splash only effect shields makes no sense. It only does 277 splash damage anyway. If you get hit with FG splash, you have more than enough time to get out of the way to avoid getting hit a second time. I never said it should be able to 1vHAV+support infantry. It makes the infantry scatter so that my team can more easily engage them. Direct hits are not necessarily "hard", but do require a great deal of skill to pull off with the Assault FG. The FG is perfect how it is. I was starting to believe you again, until that laughable part about assault Forge guns. I've used forge guns extensively, and find it easier to aim the assault variant as you don't have to watch the charge meter as with the others.
So you are saying that in your opinion it is easier to time your shots perfectly or lead your targets with perfect aim than it is to walk around with your FG charged up until some poor red dot crosses your path.
LOL nobody watches the charge meter. When I used the standard FG I went by the sound and the graphic.
I'm convinced you are playing devil's advocate. |
Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
116
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 22:10:00 -
[93] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:
So you are saying that in your opinion it is easier to time your shots perfectly or lead your targets with perfect aim than it is to walk around with your FG charged up until some poor red dot crosses your path.
LOL nobody watches the charge more meter. When I used the standard FG I went by the sound and the graphic.
I'm convinced you are playing devil's advocate.
No sir, I just see through your smoke and mirrors. You are trying to make the forge, more particularly the assault variant sound as if they are for skilled players only, and they should be left as is because they have so many disadvantages. Which of course is false. The assault is offers the best survivability plus time to shoot, so therfore is the best AV and ant-infantry weapon at the same time. By your own account, you go by sound to tell when the charge is ready. This is beneficial to all forge guns, including the assault, as you can head glitch, fire than are back behind cover as your next shot is charging. |
Ferindar
The Malevolent Monkey Militia
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 22:28:00 -
[94] - Quote
Note how all the people complaining about Forge Guns are whining that their AR isn't working.
Their ASSAULT RIFLE can't shoot that high.
Their ASSAULT RIFLE can't SNIPE them.
Diversify, you fools.
Requoting this for folks who whine about tower snipers.
Ferindar wrote: Militia Dropships only cost 70k ISK, require no skills trained to fly, and can get you there pretty fast.
If you can't be bothered to fly up there, land, then spray and pray with your AR until you get a kill, then you deserve to get sniped over and over.
If you can't be bothered to load the FREE SNIPER FIT and suppress them, you deserve to get blown to bits by blue balls of death.
If you can't be bothered to work as a team, you deserve to die alone.
|
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
575
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 23:22:00 -
[95] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:
So you are saying that in your opinion it is easier to time your shots perfectly or lead your targets with perfect aim than it is to walk around with your FG charged up until some poor red dot crosses your path.
LOL nobody watches the charge more meter. When I used the standard FG I went by the sound and the graphic.
I'm convinced you are playing devil's advocate.
No sir, I just see through your smoke and mirrors. You are trying to make the forge, more particularly the assault variant sound as if they are for skilled players only, and they should be left as is because they have so many disadvantages. Which of course is false. The assault is offers the best survivability plus time to shoot, so therfore is the best AV and ant-infantry weapon at the same time. By your own account, you go by sound to tell when the charge is ready. This is beneficial to all forge guns, including the assault, as you can head glitch, fire than are back behind cover as your next shot is charging.
What is this "head glitch" you speak of?
Ohhhhh when you just barely pop your head over the edge of the tower while camping on top! Yea I see snipers and sniper tanks doing that all the time!
I don't sit on top of towers. I stay on the ground where a heavy belongs!
How does a weapon offer survivability? I always though that was the Job of your Dropsuit with Armor and/or Shield modules.
Time to shoot is lowered yes, but that time to shoot is negated by not being able to hold a charge, so you must use a level of intelligence many have not been able to display in order to track your enemy, or time your shots ergo they sit on top of towers!
FG are not OP!
Some players ability to counter FG tower snipers are UP!
I seriously don't get the problem. You have to get a direct hit which is near impossible unless the person is sitting perfectly still. In which case said person deserved to get obliterated.
If you happen to get some splash damage from the FG, well guess what, you have 2 seconds to get up and GTFO!
Two Seconds!
What is the Sprint speed of an Amarr Logi Suit? (the slowest unless I'm mistaken.) 6.4m/s
6.4m/s x 2 seconds = 12.8 m in 2 seconds
So by the time I can charge up my FG you can be at the very least 9 meters if you use plates or more (depending on your Dropsuit and fitting) away from the last point of impact! Why are you still there do you want me to kill you?? |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
730
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 23:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:
So you are saying that in your opinion it is easier to time your shots perfectly or lead your targets with perfect aim than it is to walk around with your FG charged up until some poor red dot crosses your path.
LOL nobody watches the charge more meter. When I used the standard FG I went by the sound and the graphic.
I'm convinced you are playing devil's advocate.
No sir, I just see through your smoke and mirrors. You are trying to make the forge, more particularly the assault variant sound as if they are for skilled players only, and they should be left as is because they have so many disadvantages. Which of course is false. The assault is offers the best survivability plus time to shoot, so therfore is the best AV and ant-infantry weapon at the same time. By your own account, you go by sound to tell when the charge is ready. This is beneficial to all forge guns, including the assault, as you can head glitch, fire than are back behind cover as your next shot is charging. What is this "head glitch" you speak of? Ohhhhh when you just barely pop your head over the edge of the tower while camping on top! Yea I see snipers and sniper tanks doing that all the time! I don't sit on top of towers. I stay on the ground where a heavy belongs! How does a weapon offer survivability? I always though that was the Job of your Dropsuit with Armor and/or Shield modules. Time to shoot is lowered yes, but that time to shoot is negated by not being able to hold a charge, so you must use a level of intelligence many have not been able to display in order to track your enemy, or time your shots ergo they sit on top of towers! FG are not OP! Some players ability to counter FG tower snipers are UP! I seriously don't get the problem. You have to get a direct hit which is near impossible unless the person is sitting perfectly still. In which case said person deserved to get obliterated. If you happen to get some splash damage from the FG, well guess what, you have 2 seconds to get up and GTFO! Two Seconds!What is the Sprint speed of an Amarr Logi Suit? (the slowest unless I'm mistaken.) 6.4m/s 6.4m/s x 2 seconds = 12.8 m in 2 seconds How much is that minus armor plate bonus? F' it lets just say 9! So by the time I can charge up my FG you can be at the very least 9 meters if you use plates or more (depending on your Dropsuit and fitting) away from the last point of impact! Why are you still there do you want me to kill you?? I have to say, like the OP said, reduce the AFG's direct, and bump up the Splash, as it seems odd the Assault Variant, which usually deals less damage, with a faster ROF, has more Damage then the STD variant. |
Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
117
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 00:38:00 -
[97] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:
So you are saying that in your opinion it is easier to time your shots perfectly or lead your targets with perfect aim than it is to walk around with your FG charged up until some poor red dot crosses your path.
LOL nobody watches the charge more meter. When I used the standard FG I went by the sound and the graphic.
I'm convinced you are playing devil's advocate.
No sir, I just see through your smoke and mirrors. You are trying to make the forge, more particularly the assault variant sound as if they are for skilled players only, and they should be left as is because they have so many disadvantages. Which of course is false. The assault is offers the best survivability plus time to shoot, so therfore is the best AV and ant-infantry weapon at the same time. By your own account, you go by sound to tell when the charge is ready. This is beneficial to all forge guns, including the assault, as you can head glitch, fire than are back behind cover as your next shot is charging. What is this "head glitch" you speak of? Ohhhhh when you just barely pop your head over the edge of the tower while camping on top! Yea I see snipers and sniper tanks doing that all the time! I don't sit on top of towers. I stay on the ground where a heavy belongs! How does a weapon offer survivability? I always though that was the Job of your Dropsuit with Armor and/or Shield modules. Time to shoot is lowered yes, but that time to shoot is negated by not being able to hold a charge, so you must use a level of intelligence many have not been able to display in order to track your enemy, or time your shots ergo they sit on top of towers! FG are not OP! Some players ability to counter FG tower snipers are UP! I seriously don't get the problem. You have to get a direct hit which is near impossible unless the person is sitting perfectly still. In which case said person deserved to get obliterated. If you happen to get some splash damage from the FG, well guess what, you have 2 seconds to get up and GTFO! Two Seconds!What is the Sprint speed of an Amarr Logi Suit? (the slowest unless I'm mistaken.) 6.4m/s 6.4m/s x 2 seconds = 12.8 m in 2 seconds How much is that minus armor plate bonus? F' it lets just say 9! So by the time I can charge up my FG you can be at the very least 9 meters if you use plates or more (depending on your Dropsuit and fitting) away from the last point of impact! Why are you still there do you want me to kill you?? LOL, never said forge were op, I think they are fine. Obviously you can read, but cannot comprehend my statements directed towards you, so I'll just leave you alone. I feel like I just beat a monkey with a stick for being bad, but the monkey can't figure out what is going on. |
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:14:00 -
[98] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:if forguns are so powerful vs infantry can people explain to me why a GEK out dps an AFG?
[b]compare: AFG needs 4 seconds to charge to do 1538 damage. so it does 1538 every 4 seconds.
The charge on an Assault Forge Gun is 2.5 seconds, not 4 seconds and deals 1524 (assuming you're talking about the DAU-2/A)
|
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
576
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 01:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:
So you are saying that in your opinion it is easier to time your shots perfectly or lead your targets with perfect aim than it is to walk around with your FG charged up until some poor red dot crosses your path.
LOL nobody watches the charge more meter. When I used the standard FG I went by the sound and the graphic.
I'm convinced you are playing devil's advocate.
No sir, I just see through your smoke and mirrors. You are trying to make the forge, more particularly the assault variant sound as if they are for skilled players only, and they should be left as is because they have so many disadvantages. Which of course is false. The assault is offers the best survivability plus time to shoot, so therfore is the best AV and ant-infantry weapon at the same time. By your own account, you go by sound to tell when the charge is ready. This is beneficial to all forge guns, including the assault, as you can head glitch, fire than are back behind cover as your next shot is charging. What is this "head glitch" you speak of? Ohhhhh when you just barely pop your head over the edge of the tower while camping on top! Yea I see snipers and sniper tanks doing that all the time! I don't sit on top of towers. I stay on the ground where a heavy belongs! How does a weapon offer survivability? I always though that was the Job of your Dropsuit with Armor and/or Shield modules. Time to shoot is lowered yes, but that time to shoot is negated by not being able to hold a charge, so you must use a level of intelligence many have not been able to display in order to track your enemy, or time your shots ergo they sit on top of towers! FG are not OP! Some players ability to counter FG tower snipers are UP! I seriously don't get the problem. You have to get a direct hit which is near impossible unless the person is sitting perfectly still. In which case said person deserved to get obliterated. If you happen to get some splash damage from the FG, well guess what, you have 2 seconds to get up and GTFO! Two Seconds!What is the Sprint speed of an Amarr Logi Suit? (the slowest unless I'm mistaken.) 6.4m/s 6.4m/s x 2 seconds = 12.8 m in 2 seconds How much is that minus armor plate bonus? F' it lets just say 9! So by the time I can charge up my FG you can be at the very least 9 meters if you use plates or more (depending on your Dropsuit and fitting) away from the last point of impact! Why are you still there do you want me to kill you?? LOL, never said forge were op, I think they are fine. Obviously you can read, but cannot comprehend my statements directed towards you, so I'll just leave you alone. I feel like I just beat a monkey with a stick for being bad, but the monkey can't figure out what is going on. Oh I caught that you were trying to say I have no skill
Quote:assault variant sound as if they are for skilled players only, and they should be left as is because they have so many disadvantages. Which of course is false
I just chose to ignore it.
I never said you called them OP, I was just throwing that in there for the heck of it.
Do you really have to insult me by calling me a monkey just because I pwnd you in this debate? What if I was African American?
Seriously though, Ill tell you the same thing I tell everyone else:
Squad up with me if you think I have no skill...better yet, come 1.4 we could set up a corp battle. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
771
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
I have yet to here anyone complaining about forguns explain to me how ARs are NOT OP... OR are infact balanced. why? because i think its certified fact now that ARs are the only usable weapon other than ADV forguns, snipes and shotguns.
If I try to charge my AFG at the same time you start shooting your milita AR, and I have max ehp of 1591 you can kill me everytime before I get off a single shot with my AFG.
from 5 meters to 75 meters nothing can beat an AR!
why is this^^ not considered OP? |
|
Megaman Trigger
Beyond Gravity.OTF
25
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:37:00 -
[101] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:If I try to charge my AFG at the same time you start shooting your milita AR, and I have max ehp of 1591 you can kill me everytime before I get off a single shot with my AFG.
You die in 2.5 seconds to a Militia AR? |
Lightning Bolt2
Binary Mercs
136
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 02:59:00 -
[102] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:I have yet to here anyone complaining about forguns explain to me how ARs are NOT OP... OR are infact balanced. why? because i think its certified fact now that ARs are the only usable weapon other than ADV forguns, snipes and shotguns.
If I try to charge my AFG at the same time you start shooting your milita AR, and I have max ehp of 1591 you can kill me everytime before I get off a single shot with my AFG.
from 5 meters to 75 meters nothing can beat an AR!
why is this^^ not considered OP?
FIRST if that MLT AR guy can kill you in 2.5 seconds you're a total noob and he got all headshots while you stood still! the AR is probably the most balanced weapon and almost everything else UP. (and BTW I do not run AR, I run Nova knives with an AR as a sidearm now bcause my knives won't damage anyone )
[EDIT] MOST OP, the SG is fine if hit detection works same as KN, MD FG(all but assault FG) tanks, LAVS |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
109
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:40:00 -
[103] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:I have lost a lot of respect for many heavies that have resorted to rooftop camping to pad their kdr, even though they can easily get great numbers on the ground. What makes you think it has anything to do with KDR? I use this tactic because it helps my team. It's also a good way to make lots of ISK. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
701
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 03:43:00 -
[104] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:I have lost a lot of respect for many heavies that have resorted to rooftop camping to pad their kdr, even though they can easily get great numbers on the ground. What makes you think it has anything to do with KDR? I use this tactic because it helps my team. It's also a good way to make lots of ISK.
I do this because its easier to Shoot at Dropships + tanks and provide cover fire. Sure , my enemies will hate me, but i guess thats good when you think of it XD
Wait why am i still here? I dont use Assault FGs.... |
Ferindar
The Malevolent Monkey Militia
28
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 13:35:00 -
[105] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:I have lost a lot of respect for many heavies that have resorted to rooftop camping to pad their kdr, even though they can easily get great numbers on the ground.
What makes you think it has anything to do with KDR? I use this tactic because it helps my team. It's also a good way to make lots of ISK.
I am primarily a Sniper. I use complex damage mods and a Charge Rifle, working my way up to level 5 profiency. I have a KDR of 1.6.
"Omg, he must be a bad sniper!" you say. Perhaps. In many matches where I just snipe, I go 20/1.
But I do more than just sit with a sniper rifle. Say there's a tank that's making life difficult for my team? I grab my sniper tank or my AV fit, and go to work. There's a firmly entrenched enemy with a small network of uplinks I can't snipe? I grab my shotgun, my grenades, and jump in, like a madman, shooting and tossing grenades until I die.
My team needs someone to suppress the enemy from calling in so many vehicles? I grab my forge gun and get to work.
Only morons care about KDR. Real players care about contributing to their team. If you like, I could make an alt, play it for a month doing nothing but padding my KDR, and I could come out 800/2.
And as mentioned, blowing up a store bought tank is one of the best things in DUST. I went through a match where I blew up FOUR Aurum Madrugars. I was happy happy happy knowing I punched this guy hard in the wallet. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
773
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 20:28:00 -
[106] - Quote
Ferindar wrote:Canaan Knute wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:I have lost a lot of respect for many heavies that have resorted to rooftop camping to pad their kdr, even though they can easily get great numbers on the ground.
What makes you think it has anything to do with KDR? I use this tactic because it helps my team. It's also a good way to make lots of ISK. I am primarily a Sniper. I use complex damage mods and a Charge Rifle, working my way up to level 5 profiency. I have a KDR of 1.6. "Omg, he must be a bad sniper!" you say. Perhaps. In many matches where I just snipe, I go 20/1. But I do more than just sit with a sniper rifle. Say there's a tank that's making life difficult for my team? I grab my sniper tank or my AV fit, and go to work. There's a firmly entrenched enemy with a small network of uplinks I can't snipe? I grab my shotgun, my grenades, and jump in, like a madman, shooting and tossing grenades until I die. My team needs someone to suppress the enemy from calling in so many vehicles? I grab my forge gun and get to work. Only morons care about KDR. Real players care about contributing to their team. If you like, I could make an alt, play it for a month doing nothing but padding my KDR, and I could come out 800/2. And as mentioned, blowing up a store bought tank is one of the best things in DUST. I went through a match where I blew up FOUR Aurum Madrugars. I was happy happy happy knowing I punched this guy hard in the wallet.
You are a good player my friend. K-D is meaningless in a game where Clans STOMP on randoms and go 34-2 and then when they play alone they go negative.
I use mainly 3 fits, also depending on what my team needs: CQ Scout: With Ishikune SMG and ADV Drop Uplinks Heavy Forge Gunner: With My Kaalakiota FG and Six Kin SMG. Mainly to provide Cover Fire and AV support. Do i get on top of a building? Well if i can i sure will.The more i see the more chances i have to Hit something. Sniper Commando: Very Similar Purpose To your Sniper/AV Gameplay. I use an ADV Tac Sniper Rifle and ADV Swarm Launcher. I have a Complex Damage Mod that affects both weapons.IMO this loadout WOULD surpass the Forge gun By FAR. (I mean Sniper rifle + Swarms with some height? Total Long ranged control XD)BUT it doesnt since the commando suit has VERY low chances of survival . Being both Slow and squishy...(not to mention big and red).This load out works decently because in CQ i use the Commandos Massive Melee damage to defend myself while dumb firing my sniper rifle.Looks stupid yes. But it works... XD |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
49
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Posted - 2013.09.04 00:46:00 -
[107] - Quote
This thread's final bump. |
stcinla2
Nihil-Obstat Mercs General Tso's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 01:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Lightning Bolt2 wrote:now first off I'm pointing this to FG vrs Vehicles because this is where I see its supposed to be used.
the Assault Forge gun DOES need nerfed because its damage stat alone with charge time. The damage needs nerfed to be weaker than the normal variant to have a real reason to not just use the assault FG. the AFG DMG needs nerfed to be 200 dmg weaker than the normal variant to have the three choices of - Speed - Dmg-or mix. Right now its - Speed AND dmg - dmg - or mix, witch would you choose? yes, unless you have no idea what a FG is you choose the AFG because theres plenty of dmg without any real downs. It does have a much lower damage output compaired to its alternate the proto breach gun. But you cant move when charging the proto and it has a longer charge up time. u can move tho u look like a dumba** when charging all u have to do is jump u don't go to far but if make the sniper think wtf and gives u a sec or 2 b4 u die |
Nguruthos IX
Vagina Bombers
1390
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 02:08:00 -
[109] - Quote
Exionous-
Nailed it. I'm bump this thread till the cows come home |
exolden shadovar
Iron Havok
15
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Posted - 2013.09.04 02:23:00 -
[110] - Quote
Oh yea takes 10 seconds.....10 seconds that they can move outa my line of fire or one shot me.any second now " lol troll your a troll cuts you haz a difent option from me" I'm just...bringing up...a point. And yes I've PERSONALLY found it easyer when you can store the charge thus harder to aim equals more dmg..also its not point and kill the shots fall pretty far from each other ...so a charge weapon that you gotta know the timing for plus scouting for a moving target and the shots travel time plus consider target evasion.. maybe make its dmg the same as the normal version but I don't think an outright nerf is called here. |
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D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
809
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 06:34:00 -
[111] - Quote
number dont lie.. ARs out dps AFGs and do more damage than forguns. the only advantage to the forgun is its range (which was nerfed) and its damage vs vehicles |
Thurak1
Psygod9
138
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 06:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
Yep and now thanks to auto aim i think everyone should be able to see clearly just how much dps a AR does. If not i will be having lessons on my days off schooling people with my duvol. Went 35 - 0 today thanks to auto aim. Its darned near impossible to miss now. Encountering a heavy is still easy back up and take them out at medium range. I went head to head with a heavy and i am guessing he didnt have a damage mod or was maybe not using a proto hmg because i took him out in an assault suit. |
Nguruthos IX
Vagina Bombers
1464
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 03:50:00 -
[113] - Quote
Thread was going places |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
71
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Posted - 2013.09.09 23:27:00 -
[114] - Quote
Decided to bump it again anyway. |
Exionous
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 23:32:00 -
[115] - Quote
[1.4 Edit (PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY READ THIS PLOX)]
Guess what?!
WE CAN KILL FORGE GUNNERS NOW! Well, slightly easier.
So, ignore most of my comments on how they can't die. However, it is still overpowered when compared to other forge guns. And roof campers are still annoying.
But my point still stands. |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 01:53:00 -
[116] - Quote
charged sniper + complex damage mods can damned near OHK a heavy suit with a headshot, and if you cant headshot a heavy with a sniper rifle, you either lack focus, patience, skill or any combination of the three. you shouldnt be bitching about the only weapon that works as intended that a heavy is supposed to use. the HMG is **** due to dispersion and minimalistic ranges my buddy can do 1500+ dmg with 3x complex damage mods and a charge sniper, and as i saw stated earlier the "average" ehp of a heavy is around 900-1591 i see no issues here with taking them down in 1-2 shots because the armor reppers will almost ALWAYS take up one of the slots that could go towards adding hp, as heavies are more slotted towards armor tanking not shield tanking
i dont use the AFG because i am satisfied with the basic with charge and hold for the perfect roof top forge sniper shots dont like forge snipers? USE COVER BETTER, AND DONT STAY STILL
side note IMO any heavy using non heavy weapons is just blasphemy (sidearms excluded) |
FATPrincess - XOXO
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
577
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 17:56:00 -
[117] - Quote
Wow why I didn't see this thread? Thanks for continuing the fight vs the lolAssaultForgeGun.
-XOXO |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3533
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 18:16:00 -
[118] - Quote
What fat princess said, the things are OP, they need a decrease on the damage, I'd leave the charge up time as it is. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
990
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 19:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Forge guns are only good in elevated positions and when they don't render to the tanks they kill.
They're fine.
Swarms and nuclear baseballs need the nerf. |
Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 19:44:00 -
[120] - Quote
Its an heavy anti-material gun, ofcourse it should ohk infantry.
And yes its an anti-material gun, not an anti-vehicle weapon, its role is to blow stuff up, infantry included. There is no Geneva convention in New Eden.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
33
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 21:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ Exionous=
You know how many ways we have to counter LLAVs? NONE ATM.
You are just salty but the fact is, its not entirely the FG's fault. Is BAD MAP DESIGN.What makes the Forge gun ''OP'' is the fact that they abuse terrain, but thats the way to use them, thats the way they were meant to be. If you cant effectively get to that point then thats not the Forge gunners fault.
im a Forge gunner and i agree in 2 things.
a)The A Forge gun IS the most powerful variant b)They need a tweak
The weapon is not OP is just way more powerful than the other Forge guns.
I would: -Regular Forge guns: Leave them as they are -Assault Forge guns: Nerf their damage under regular FG's OR INCREASE their damage to around 1800 at ADV level but GREATLY reduce the splash damage AREA so that only DIRECT hits are worth. (and i wo NO nerf ALL forge gun direct hit damage. im tired of some kid solo'ing tanks accross the map in 3 shots shield tank or 4 shots armor tank. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
344
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:15:00 -
[122] - Quote
TLDR because I've read it all before.
The only thing I can agree on as a dedicated forge gunner is that the assault variant should have lower damage than the standard. Everything else is a matter of tactics. Just because we have found and use a viable tactical advantage doesn't mean we're op. Everyone maneuvers for best tactical advantage, it's just the nature of the game.
Yes, I'll tower snipe with my forge, but after 16 shots, if I don't have a team mate dropping nano hives for me, I have to either jump off the tower and risk getting shot while I make my way to resupply or call in my militia DS and hope it doesn't get two shotted (shield resistance amp for lulz) on my way to a supply depot where some blueberry may hijack it as I get my reloads.
And as for a not being killable on a tower top. I've been killed by large rail turrets, invisible snipers on other towers and deep in their red line, mercs on neighboring towers, two to three snipers coordinating attacks, other forge gunners, and DS pilots that know how to hug the terrain and tower to pop up and hot drop two or more anti infantry mercs on me. If you know how to use your assets, the only things that are nearly unkillable are red line rail tanks and red line snipers. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
344
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:27:00 -
[123] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:I have lost a lot of respect for many heavies that have resorted to rooftop camping to pad their kdr, even though they can easily get great numbers on the ground. What makes you think it has anything to do with KDR? I use this tactic because it helps my team. It's also a good way to make lots of ISK.
KDR means nothing to me. I play primarily to have fun and help my team by being as effective as I can. I have gone into the middle of close firefights to support my squadmates/team and called in an LAV to drive to a position to fend off a HAV or DS harassing a squad. Not all of us are KDR whores. |
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